---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/06/16: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:29 PM - Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing (Jeff Carpenter) 2. 01:44 PM - Re: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing (Tim Olson) 3. 02:26 PM - Re: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing (Roger Standley) 4. 04:50 PM - Re: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing (David Saylor) 5. 07:50 PM - Re: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing (Bob Turner) 6. 08:56 PM - Re: Re: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing (Kelly McMullen) 7. 09:55 PM - Re: Re: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing (Jesse Saint) 8. 10:24 PM - Re: Re: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing (Kelly McMullen) 9. 10:42 PM - Re: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing (Jeff Carpenter) 10. 10:53 PM - Re: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing (Kelly McMullen) 11. 11:03 PM - Re: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing (David Saylor) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:29:17 PM PST US From: Jeff Carpenter Subject: RV10-List: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing Okay... now that the fly off is complete and the first couple of oil changes are behind me it seems I need a crash course in keeping N410CF finely tuned. Over the last few flights the engine has been progressively more difficult to start. I've been experimenting with different starting techniques and was attributing the problems to that. The last trip out to the run up area it died at idle. I restarted, ran the engine up to 1700 rpm and leaned it out. The subsequent idle check was okay, but things aren't feeling quite right. I'm running a stock Vans supplied YIO-540-D4A5 with dual slick mags and a slick start... Total time on the engine is 44 hours I've not yet purchased a plug cleaning kit or a mag timing light and would love some input on what I should buy. Jeff Carpenter N410CF... Flying. Westcott Press 1121 Isabel Street Burbank, CA 91506 jeff@westcottpress.com 818-861-7300 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing From: Tim Olson Buy a buzz box, and a mag timing pin (you may not need that for a while). Then definitely check your ground lean setting on your engine. While idling, go mixture full rich, check the RPM. Lean it out until it starts to die. It should raise in RPM before it dies. See how much higher it goes than what you started at full rich. You want 20 to 50 RPM rise, no more no less. The star wheel on your throttle linkage arm is how you adjust it. Once you get it close a couple clicks do make a difference so maybe start with a few clicks but eventually you'll be down to ticking it one or two. If you use good starting technique both cold and hot starts should be pretty easy. And if you screw up a hot start you can always slightly flood it and then use the flooded start procedure and get it going fairly easily. Tim On 7/6/2016 3:27 PM, Jeff Carpenter wrote: > Okay... now that the fly off is complete and the first couple of oil > changes are behind me it seems I need a crash course in keeping N410CF > finely tuned. Over the last few flights the engine has been > progressively more difficult to start. I've been experimenting with > different starting techniques and was attributing the problems to that. > The last trip out to the run up area it died at idle. I restarted, ran > the engine up to 1700 rpm and leaned it out. The subsequent idle check > was okay, but things aren't feeling quite right. > > I'm running a stock Vans supplied YIO-540-D4A5 with dual slick mags and > a slick start... Total time on the engine is 44 hours > > I've not yet purchased a plug cleaning kit or a mag timing light and > would love some input on what I should buy. > > Jeff Carpenter > N410CF... Flying. > > > Westcott Press > 1121 Isabel Street > Burbank, CA 91506 > jeff@westcottpress.com > 818-861-7300 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:26:14 PM PST US From: Roger Standley Subject: RE: RV10-List: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing Also=2C leaning during taxis and warm-up will help Keep the plugs clean. > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > From: Tim@MyRV10.com > Date: Wed=2C 6 Jul 2016 15:43:29 -0500 > > > Buy a buzz box=2C and a mag timing pin (you may not need that for a while ). > Then definitely check your ground lean setting on your engine. > > While idling=2C go mixture full rich=2C check the RPM. Lean it out > until it starts to die. It should raise in RPM before it dies. > See how much higher it goes than what you started at full rich. > You want 20 to 50 RPM rise=2C no more no less. The star wheel > on your throttle linkage arm is how you adjust it. Once you get > it close a couple clicks do make a difference so maybe start with > a few clicks but eventually you'll be down to ticking it one > or two. > > If you use good starting technique both cold and hot starts > should be pretty easy. And if you screw up a hot start you > can always slightly flood it and then use the flooded start > procedure and get it going fairly easily. > > Tim > > On 7/6/2016 3:27 PM=2C Jeff Carpenter wrote: > > Okay... now that the fly off is complete and the first couple of oil > > changes are behind me it seems I need a crash course in keeping N410CF > > finely tuned. Over the last few flights the engine has been > > progressively more difficult to start. I've been experimenting with > > different starting techniques and was attributing the problems to that. > > The last trip out to the run up area it died at idle. I restarted=2C ra n > > the engine up to 1700 rpm and leaned it out. The subsequent idle check > > was okay=2C but things aren't feeling quite right. > > > > I'm running a stock Vans supplied YIO-540-D4A5 with dual slick mags and > > a slick start... Total time on the engine is 44 hours > > > > I've not yet purchased a plug cleaning kit or a mag timing light and > > would love some input on what I should buy. > > > > Jeff Carpenter > > N410CF... Flying. > > > > > > > > Westcott Press > > 1121 Isabel Street > > Burbank=2C CA 91506 > > jeff@westcottpress.com > > 818-861-7300 > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:47 PM PST US From: David Saylor Subject: Re: RV10-List: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing Jeff, are using a retard mag, or an impulse coupling? If the timing slips on the retard points it'll get hard to start for sure. Check the retard points just like the mains, but they should opening at or just after 0*. --Dave On Wednesday, July 6, 2016, Jeff Carpenter wrote: > Okay... now that the fly off is complete and the first couple of oil > changes are behind me it seems I need a crash course in keeping N410CF > finely tuned. Over the last few flights the engine has been progressively > more difficult to start. I've been experimenting with different starting > techniques and was attributing the problems to that. The last trip out to > the run up area it died at idle. I restarted, ran the engine up to 1700 rpm > and leaned it out. The subsequent idle check was okay, but things aren't > feeling quite right. > > I'm running a stock Vans supplied YIO-540-D4A5 with dual slick mags and a > slick start... Total time on the engine is 44 hours > > I've not yet purchased a plug cleaning kit or a mag timing light and would > love some input on what I should buy. > > Jeff Carpenter > N410CF... Flying. > > > Westcott Press > 1121 Isabel Street > Burbank, CA 91506 > jeff@westcottpress.com > 818-861-7300 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:00 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing From: "Bob Turner" It sounds like the engine has never been timed? Apparently (?) Lycoming expects the installer to check and adjust the timing. Several builders, including myself, have reported the mag timing was off, right out of the box. I bought a "kit" buzz box (some soldering required) for less than $50, works fine. I can't remember where I bought the kit, sorry. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457828#457828 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing From: Kelly McMullen A mag timing box is not that expensive. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/to/enginetools/synchronizer.php I don't with the small Slicks, but with the large Bendix S1200s that I have, it is necessary to remove a mag to install the engine to the engine mount. Obviously the mag has to be re-timed after re-installing. On 7/6/2016 7:49 PM, Bob Turner wrote: > > It sounds like the engine has never been timed? Apparently (?) Lycoming expects the installer to check and adjust the timing. Several builders, including myself, have reported the mag timing was off, right out of the box. > > I bought a "kit" buzz box (some soldering required) for less than $50, works fine. I can't remember where I bought the kit, sorry. > > -------- > Bob Turner > RV-10 QB > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457828#457828 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:55:29 PM PST US From: Jesse Saint Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing I assume you meant to say "I don't know with he small Slicks...", but they do not have to be removed to hang the engine. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. 352-427-0285 jesse@saintaviation.com Sent from my iPad > On Jul 6, 2016, at 11:56 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > > A mag timing box is not that expensive. > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/to/enginetools/synchronizer.php > I don't with the small Slicks, but with the large Bendix S1200s that I have, it is necessary to remove a mag to install the engine to the engine mount. Obviously the mag has to be re-timed after re-installing. > >> On 7/6/2016 7:49 PM, Bob Turner wrote: >> >> It sounds like the engine has never been timed? Apparently (?) Lycoming expects the installer to check and adjust the timing. Several builders, including myself, have reported the mag timing was off, right out of the box. >> >> I bought a "kit" buzz box (some soldering required) for less than $50, works fine. I can't remember where I bought the kit, sorry. >> >> -------- >> Bob Turner >> RV-10 QB >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457828#457828 > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:24:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing From: Kelly McMullen Yes On 7/6/2016 9:54 PM, Jesse Saint wrote: > > I assume you meant to say "I don't know with the small Slicks...", but they do not have to be removed to hang the engine. > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > 352-427-0285 > jesse@saintaviation.com > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Jul 6, 2016, at 11:56 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >> >> >> A mag timing box is not that expensive. >> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/to/enginetools/synchronizer.php >> I don't with the small Slicks, but with the large Bendix S1200s that I have, it is necessary to remove a mag to install the engine to the engine mount. Obviously the mag has to be re-timed after re-installing. >> >>> On 7/6/2016 7:49 PM, Bob Turner wrote: >>> >>> It sounds like the engine has never been timed? Apparently (?) Lycoming expects the installer to check and adjust the timing. Several builders, including myself, have reported the mag timing was off, right out of the box. >>> >>> I bought a "kit" buzz box (some soldering required) for less than $50, works fine. I can't remember where I bought the kit, sorry. >>> >>> -------- >>> Bob Turner >>> RV-10 QB >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457828#457828 >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:10 PM PST US From: Jeff Carpenter Subject: Re: RV10-List: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing Retard mag... and the mags were timed with the help of a couple of A&P's with a buzz box before the first engine start. It seems to me that the retard points and main points of the retard mag move together... so if one is off time the other would be as well. Am I missing something here? On Jul 6, 2016, at 4:49 PM, David Saylor wrote: > Jeff, are using a retard mag, or an impulse coupling? If the timing slips on the retard points it'll get hard to start for sure. Check the retard points just like the mains, but they should opening at or just after 0*. > > --Dave > > On Wednesday, July 6, 2016, Jeff Carpenter wrote: > Okay... now that the fly off is complete and the first couple of oil changes are behind me it seems I need a crash course in keeping N410CF finely tuned. Over the last few flights the engine has been progressively more difficult to start. I've been experimenting with different starting techniques and was attributing the problems to that. The last trip out to the run up area it died at idle. I restarted, ran the engine up to 1700 rpm and leaned it out. The subsequent idle check was okay, but things aren't feeling quite right. > > I'm running a stock Vans supplied YIO-540-D4A5 with dual slick mags and a slick start... Total time on the engine is 44 hours > > I've not yet purchased a plug cleaning kit or a mag timing light and would love some input on what I should buy. > > Jeff Carpenter > N410CF... Flying. > > > > Westcott Press > 1121 Isabel Street > Burbank, CA 91506 > jeff@westcottpress.com > 818-861-7300 > > > > Westcott Press 1121 Isabel Street Burbank, CA 91506 jeff@westcottpress.com 818-861-7300 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:00 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing From: Kelly McMullen You are correct. Is there a way to test the Slickstart box? I assume your mags are set to 25 degrees. There are various methods to cleaning plugs. I prefer a dental pick to remove lead balls, and rotating bottom plugs to top to keep them clean. I'm an hour or two behind you on TT. I have one plug that seems intermittent, but it tests okay as far as resistance and isn't fouled. While my ignition is a pair of Bendix S-1200 mags I find fuel system is most temperamental on starts. The engine wants to be rich on cold start, and have found putting mixture full rich just before cranking gives a quick start. Hot starts are another mystery. Boost pump on, mixture idle cutoff until starting to crank seems to work, adding mixture slowly while cranking. If not enough fuel when it fires it quits easily. On 7/6/2016 10:40 PM, Jeff Carpenter wrote: > Retard mag... and the mags were timed with the help of a couple of A&P's > with a buzz box before the first engine start. It seems to me that the > retard points and main points of the retard mag move together... so if > one is off time the other would be as well. Am I missing something here? > > > On Jul 6, 2016, at 4:49 PM, David Saylor wrote: > >> Jeff, are using a retard mag, or an impulse coupling? If the timing >> slips on the retard points it'll get hard to start for sure. Check >> the retard points just like the mains, but they should opening at or >> just after 0*. >> >> --Dave >> >> On Wednesday, July 6, 2016, Jeff Carpenter > > wrote: >> >> Okay... now that the fly off is complete and the first couple of >> oil changes are behind me it seems I need a crash course in >> keeping N410CF finely tuned. Over the last few flights the engine >> has been progressively more difficult to start. I've been >> experimenting with different starting techniques and was >> attributing the problems to that. The last trip out to the run up >> area it died at idle. I restarted, ran the engine up to 1700 rpm >> and leaned it out. The subsequent idle check was okay, but things >> aren't feeling quite right. >> >> I'm running a stock Vans supplied YIO-540-D4A5 with dual slick >> mags and a slick start... Total time on the engine is 44 hours >> >> I've not yet purchased a plug cleaning kit or a mag timing light >> and would love some input on what I should buy. >> >> Jeff Carpenter >> N410CF... Flying. >> >> >> >> Westcott Press >> 1121 Isabel Street >> Burbank, CA 91506 >> jeff@westcottpress.com >> 818-861-7300 >> >> >> >> > > Westcott Press > 1121 Isabel Street > Burbank, CA 91506 > jeff@westcottpress.com > 818-861-7300 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:16 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Mag Timing/Fouled Plugs... that sort of thing From: David Saylor No, that's correct, when you twist the mag relative to the engine it moves both sets of points together. It's probably worth checking even though they were set not too long ago. But--the retard and the main points can be timed individually as well, relative to each other. As the points wear, their timing changes--probably close to equally but not necessarily. So it is possible to have the mains firing right at (25*?) and the retards firing at, and say, 10* after instead of 0. You can check that with a buzz box but to fix it the mag would most likely need to come off. --Dave On Wednesday, July 6, 2016, Jeff Carpenter wrote: > Retard mag... and the mags were timed with the help of a couple of A&P's > with a buzz box before the first engine start. It seems to me that the > retard points and main points of the retard mag move together... so if one > is off time the other would be as well. Am I missing something here? > > > On Jul 6, 2016, at 4:49 PM, David Saylor wrote: > > Jeff, are using a retard mag, or an impulse coupling? If the timing slips > on the retard points it'll get hard to start for sure. Check the retard > points just like the mains, but they should opening at or just after 0*. > > --Dave > > On Wednesday, July 6, 2016, Jeff Carpenter > wrote: > >> Okay... now that the fly off is complete and the first couple of oil >> changes are behind me it seems I need a crash course in keeping N410CF >> finely tuned. Over the last few flights the engine has been progressively >> more difficult to start. I've been experimenting with different starting >> techniques and was attributing the problems to that. The last trip out to >> the run up area it died at idle. I restarted, ran the engine up to 1700 rpm >> and leaned it out. The subsequent idle check was okay, but things aren't >> feeling quite right. >> >> I'm running a stock Vans supplied YIO-540-D4A5 with dual slick mags and a >> slick start... Total time on the engine is 44 hours >> >> I've not yet purchased a plug cleaning kit or a mag timing light and >> would love some input on what I should buy. >> >> Jeff Carpenter >> N410CF... Flying. >> >> >> >> Westcott Press >> 1121 Isabel Street >> Burbank, CA 91506 >> jeff@westcottpress.com >> 818-861-7300 >> >> >> >> >> > Westcott Press > 1121 Isabel Street > Burbank, CA 91506 > jeff@westcottpress.com > > 818-861-7300 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.