Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:03 AM - Re: Slick Ignition Harness (Tim Olson)
2. 06:54 AM - Re: Slick Ignition Harness (Carl Froehlich)
3. 07:27 AM - Re: Slick Ignition Harness (Tim Olson)
4. 08:05 AM - Re: Was slick Ignition Harness now EI (Carl Froehlich)
5. 08:25 AM - Re: Was slick Ignition Harness now EI (Tim Olson)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Slick Ignition Harness |
I'd agree with everything you said.
FIXING a harness would be affordable but these days the prices of harness co
mponents is just too high and so are the harnesses. We're all screwed if we
want it done cheap. The cheapest option would be to find a harness that we
can use 1/2 of. Unfortunately it's almost impossible to buy a 1/2 harness n
ow. So you buy a complete system and only use 1/2. If you're lucky and can
use a stock part number then it's not totally unaffordable.
But finding a consistent proper length stock harness is tough as slick vs Ke
lly/skytronics don't seem to follow the same lengths.
Having a custom harness done is not that much more expensive if you go Kelly
/Skytronics, but, the process is painful and long. It took me many emails a
nd phone calls to get the guy to get an order set up for what I wanted on th
e RV14. Then it took a good couple weeks or more to get the harness. I don'
t remember if it was 2 or 4'weeks but it was long enough to Irritate me a li
ttle. Still, it worked out...and if you need every lead to be custom
Length it's still the cheapest way to go because buying all 4 or 6 leads is m
ore expensive than custom. What also would be maybe even more affordable an
d possibly quicker is to buy a new stock complete harness and then tear it a
ll apart and transplant the cables from one harness to another to make a cus
tom one DIY. That is my likely plan I guess next time. One benefit is that t
hen you will have a spare harness cap as well.
Sadly they make it so expensive and tough to keep these mags in service that
it gets tempting to remove both but I am
Philosophically not ready to trust 2 electronic ignitions and I definitely w
on't be trusting the P-Mag, if it EVER comes out, for at least 8-10 years. I
f there weren't issues we would have seen it years ago and I know fears were
issues. And the talk about impulse coupler problems has me wondering if har
monics aren't their big problem.
Anyone know if the engine gear needs to be changed if I pull an impulse coup
led mag and put on a non-impulse mag? Next time I need an Overhaul I think I
'll go non impulse.
Anyway, harnesses are a pain so my advice is to care for them well, monitor t
hem for issues, and then come up with your plan or a replacement harness BEFO
RE you need one because it may take a while to get what you want.
Tim
> On Sep 16, 2016, at 1:16 AM, Albert <ibspud@roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
> I made repairs to my Slick harness and have some things to share. I unders
tand there are various mag models and this may not apply to them but mine is
a 6351. The pdf document that Tim Olsen shared (Champion L-1499B Ignition L
ead Assembly & Maintenance Manual) is what I referred to. I bought the T-200
Slick Ignition Harness Tool Kit from Spruce and three 72" lead assemblies (
Kelley S100-72) . The maintenance manual is somewhat inadequate in that it r
eferes to Slick Ignition wires that apparently differ from either Skytronics
or Kelley. The Slick wires referred to in the maintenance manual have a coi
led center conductor whereas Skytronics and Kelley have a stranded conductor
. On Slick wire you have to insert the little screw (that holds the spring) i
nto the coiled conductor but on stranded wire it is crimped on. I just happe
ned to have a crimper that works which I got from SteirAir to crimp the pins
for my intercom connectors.
>
> Since the spark plug ends are already on the Kelley leads, cutting them to
the right length, crimping the little screw on and then pressing them into t
he mag cap went well. The Kelley 72" leads are somewhat expensive, for me a
bout $85 each so to build a complete 6 or 12 wire harness would be out of th
e question. Better to buy one. My problem was I couldn't find out how long t
he leads were in any specific kit without pulling one off the shelf and meas
uring them plus I had 3 leads that were long enough so only needed 3. Also l
ead time to have a custom harness made were way too long.
>
> I see big problems in trying to make your own harness: where to get lead w
ire and where to get the various parts at the mag end (drive ferrule, insula
tor sleeve, crimp on connector and spring). Plus you will have to make up th
e plug end also and get those parts.
>
> Repairing mine using Kelleys leads worked OK for me but next time I'm goin
g to look for someone else to make me a complete harness.
> Albert Gardner
> RV-10 N991RV
> Yuma, AZ
>
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Slick Ignition Harness |
Tim,
I note your comment, =9CPhilosophically not ready to trust 2
electronic ignitions and I definitely won't be trusting the P-Mag, if it
EVER comes out, for at least 8-10 years. If there weren't issues we
would have seen it years ago and I know fears were issues. And the talk
about impulse coupler problems has me wondering if harmonics aren't
their big problem.=9D
The RV-10 is the first airplane I=99ve owned with mags (the RV-8A
now has 900 hours on dual pMags). I=99m now pushing 400 hours on
the RV-10 and the mags are in need of overhaul. I=99m also on my
second set of overpriced aircraft plugs. After careful cylinder
balancing I can fly LOP, but above 11k=99 the fixed 25 degrees of
advance clearly shows it=99s limitations.
I have some sympathy for eMag on their extended road to produce a TSO
ignition. While the experimental market is ready, they see the prize
being all those spam cans out there with owners wanting something better
than a 1930 era magneto.
Considering my personal operational experience with eMag, I will be
installing dual six cylinder pMags on the RV-10 as soon as they mail
them to me.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Slick Ignition Harness
I'd agree with everything you said.
FIXING a harness would be affordable but these days the prices of
harness components is just too high and so are the harnesses. We're all
screwed if we want it done cheap. The cheapest option would be to find
a harness that we can use 1/2 of. Unfortunately it's almost impossible
to buy a 1/2 harness now. So you buy a complete system and only use
1/2. If you're lucky and can use a stock part number then it's not
totally unaffordable.
But finding a consistent proper length stock harness is tough as slick
vs Kelly/skytronics don't seem to follow the same lengths.
Having a custom harness done is not that much more expensive if you go
Kelly/Skytronics, but, the process is painful and long. It took me many
emails and phone calls to get the guy to get an order set up for what I
wanted on the RV14. Then it took a good couple weeks or more to get the
harness. I don't remember if it was 2 or 4'weeks but it was long enough
to Irritate me a little. Still, it worked out...and if you need every
lead to be custom
Length it's still the cheapest way to go because buying all 4 or 6 leads
is more expensive than custom. What also would be maybe even more
affordable and possibly quicker is to buy a new stock complete harness
and then tear it all apart and transplant the cables from one harness to
another to make a custom one DIY. That is my likely plan I guess next
time. One benefit is that then you will have a spare harness cap as
well.
Sadly they make it so expensive and tough to keep these mags in service
that it gets tempting to remove both but I am
Philosophically not ready to trust 2 electronic ignitions and I
definitely won't be trusting the P-Mag, if it EVER comes out, for at
least 8-10 years. If there weren't issues we would have seen it years
ago and I know fears were issues. And the talk about impulse coupler
problems has me wondering if harmonics aren't their big problem.
Anyone know if the engine gear needs to be changed if I pull an impulse
coupled mag and put on a non-impulse mag? Next time I need an Overhaul I
think I'll go non impulse.
Anyway, harnesses are a pain so my advice is to care for them well,
monitor them for issues, and then come up with your plan or a
replacement harness BEFORE you need one because it may take a while to
get what you want.
Tim
On Sep 16, 2016, at 1:16 AM, Albert <ibspud@roadrunner.com> wrote:
I made repairs to my Slick harness and have some things to share. I
understand there are various mag models and this may not apply to them
but mine is a 6351. The pdf document that Tim Olsen shared (Champion
L-1499B Ignition Lead Assembly & Maintenance Manual) is what I referred
to. I bought the T-200 Slick Ignition Harness Tool Kit from Spruce and
three 72" lead assemblies (Kelley S100-72) . The maintenance manual is
somewhat inadequate in that it referes to Slick Ignition wires that
apparently differ from either Skytronics or Kelley. The Slick wires
referred to in the maintenance manual have a coiled center conductor
whereas Skytronics and Kelley have a stranded conductor. On Slick wire
you have to insert the little screw (that holds the spring) into the
coiled conductor but on stranded wire it is crimped on. I just happened
to have a crimper that works which I got from SteirAir to crimp the pins
for my intercom connectors.
Since the spark plug ends are already on the Kelley leads, cutting them
to the right length, crimping the little screw on and then pressing them
into the mag cap went well. The Kelley 72" leads are somewhat
expensive, for me about $85 each so to build a complete 6 or 12 wire
harness would be out of the question. Better to buy one. My problem was
I couldn't find out how long the leads were in any specific kit without
pulling one off the shelf and measuring them plus I had 3 leads that
were long enough so only needed 3. Also lead time to have a custom
harness made were way too long.
I see big problems in trying to make your own harness: where to get lead
wire and where to get the various parts at the mag end (drive ferrule,
insulator sleeve, crimp on connector and spring). Plus you will have to
make up the plug end also and get those parts.
Repairing mine using Kelleys leads worked OK for me but next time I'm
going to look for someone else to make me a complete harness.
Albert Gardner
RV-10 N991RV
Yuma, AZ
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Slick Ignition Harness |
That's fine, to each his own. I know on the 4 cylinders they haven't
been bad, and I'd even be willing to use them on a 4 cylinder engine.
But with previous gearing issues they've had and knowing that the
6 cylinder has different issues in relation to the mag drive,
I personally am not willing to stick something on that gear case
until there are a few years and maybe 1,000 units in the field that
haven't had an issue for a good while. I'm not willing to be
THAT experimental in my ignition.
I have lightspeed and it's been good, but, it's the granddaddy of
electronic ignition systems at this point. Yes, there are newer,
but I want to see more track record on them.
For those who like that Gen3 or whatever it is, that attaches
to a mag, before you go that route, you may want to talk to
my buddy Lenny. He was sold on them from the beginning but
when he finally pulled them off, he actually destroyed them
just so they wouldn't get into anyone elses hands. He
now has a Lightspeed on his plane too.
But that all does not discount your experience on your RV-8A.
I think the pMags have pretty much proven themselves on that
platform, and I have no issues with them there. And, if you
choose to put them on your RV-10, I can applaud that as well.
SOMEONE has to be the one to take the leap, and if you're
willing, go for it. We'll all benefit from the knowledge.
It's just something that I'm not willing to stick my neck out
on either. I would also say it's too early to say "hey everyone,
jump on this bandwagon and try them out!" because without
a track record, it could just lead people into something
that could increase our insurance rate. If it goes well
though, no big deal.
Tim
On 9/16/2016 8:51 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
> Tim,
>
>
> I note your comment, Philosophically not ready to trust 2 electronic
> ignitions and I definitely won't be trusting the P-Mag, if it EVER comes
> out, for at least 8-10 years. If there weren't issues we would have
> seen it years ago and I know fears were issues. And the talk about
> impulse coupler problems has me wondering if harmonics aren't their big
> problem.
>
>
> The RV-10 is the first airplane Ive owned with mags (the RV-8A now has
> 900 hours on dual pMags). Im now pushing 400 hours on the RV-10 and
> the mags are in need of overhaul. Im also on my second set of
> overpriced aircraft plugs. After careful cylinder balancing I can fly
> LOP, but above 11k the fixed 25 degrees of advance clearly shows its
> limitations.
>
>
> I have some sympathy for eMag on their extended road to produce a TSO
> ignition. While the experimental market is ready, they see the prize
> being all those spam cans out there with owners wanting something better
> than a 1930 era magneto.
>
>
> Considering my personal operational experience with eMag, I will be
> installing dual six cylinder pMags on the RV-10 as soon as they mail
> them to me.
>
>
> Carl
>
>
> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Tim Olson
> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 8:03 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Slick Ignition Harness
>
>
> I'd agree with everything you said.
>
> FIXING a harness would be affordable but these days the prices of
> harness components is just too high and so are the harnesses. We're all
> screwed if we want it done cheap. The cheapest option would be to find
> a harness that we can use 1/2 of. Unfortunately it's almost impossible
> to buy a 1/2 harness now. So you buy a complete system and only use
> 1/2. If you're lucky and can use a stock part number then it's not
> totally unaffordable.
>
> But finding a consistent proper length stock harness is tough as slick
> vs Kelly/skytronics don't seem to follow the same lengths.
>
> Having a custom harness done is not that much more expensive if you go
> Kelly/Skytronics, but, the process is painful and long. It took me many
> emails and phone calls to get the guy to get an order set up for what I
> wanted on the RV14. Then it took a good couple weeks or more to get the
> harness. I don't remember if it was 2 or 4'weeks but it was long enough
> to Irritate me a little. Still, it worked out...and if you need every
> lead to be custom
>
> Length it's still the cheapest way to go because buying all 4 or 6 leads
> is more expensive than custom. What also would be maybe even more
> affordable and possibly quicker is to buy a new stock complete harness
> and then tear it all apart and transplant the cables from one harness to
> another to make a custom one DIY. That is my likely plan I guess next
> time. One benefit is that then you will have a spare harness cap as well.
>
> Sadly they make it so expensive and tough to keep these mags in service
> that it gets tempting to remove both but I am
>
> Philosophically not ready to trust 2 electronic ignitions and I
> definitely won't be trusting the P-Mag, if it EVER comes out, for at
> least 8-10 years. If there weren't issues we would have seen it years
> ago and I know fears were issues. And the talk about impulse coupler
> problems has me wondering if harmonics aren't their big problem.
>
> Anyone know if the engine gear needs to be changed if I pull an impulse
> coupled mag and put on a non-impulse mag? Next time I need an Overhaul I
> think I'll go non impulse.
>
>
> Anyway, harnesses are a pain so my advice is to care for them well,
> monitor them for issues, and then come up with your plan or a
> replacement harness BEFORE you need one because it may take a while to
> get what you want.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On Sep 16, 2016, at 1:16 AM, Albert <ibspud@roadrunner.com
> <mailto:ibspud@roadrunner.com>> wrote:
>
> I made repairs to my Slick harness and have some things to share. I
> understand there are various mag models and this may not apply to
> them but mine is a 6351. The pdf document that Tim Olsen shared
> (Champion L-1499B Ignition Lead Assembly & Maintenance Manual) is
> what I referred to. I bought the T-200 Slick Ignition Harness Tool
> Kit from Spruce and three 72" lead assemblies (Kelley S100-72) . The
> maintenance manual is somewhat inadequate in that it referes to
> Slick Ignition wires that apparently differ from either Skytronics
> or Kelley. The Slick wires referred to in the maintenance manual
> have a coiled center conductor whereas Skytronics and Kelley have a
> stranded conductor. On Slick wire you have to insert the little
> screw (that holds the spring) into the coiled conductor but on
> stranded wire it is crimped on. I just happened to have a crimper
> that works which I got from SteirAir to crimp the pins for my
> intercom connectors.
>
>
> Since the spark plug ends are already on the Kelley leads, cutting
> them to the right length, crimping the little screw on and then
> pressing them into the mag cap went well. The Kelley 72" leads are
> somewhat expensive, for me about $85 each so to build a complete 6
> or 12 wire harness would be out of the question. Better to buy one.
> My problem was I couldn't find out how long the leads were in any
> specific kit without pulling one off the shelf and measuring them
> plus I had 3 leads that were long enough so only needed 3. Also lead
> time to have a custom harness made were way too long.
>
>
> I see big problems in trying to make your own harness: where to get
> lead wire and where to get the various parts at the mag end (drive
> ferrule, insulator sleeve, crimp on connector and spring). Plus you
> will have to make up the plug end also and get those parts.
>
>
> Repairing mine using Kelleys leads worked OK for me but next time
> I'm going to look for someone else to make me a complete harness.
>
> Albert Gardner
>
> RV-10 N991RV
>
> Yuma, AZ
>
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Was slick Ignition Harness now EI |
Thanks Tim, we are on the same page. I know eMag is doing an extensive testing
program as the FAA will be looking at any hiccups during their TSO cert. I too
will be looking at the pMag test data before jumping in.
I note your comment on Lightspeed. I do have a track record with Lightspeed and
I consider any Lightspeed install to make the aircraft un-airworthy. I had
multiple failures of a dual Lightspeed install in the 8A before I pulled them
and installed the pMags. I know of more people with Lightspeed installs that
had hard failures than I know of people with Lightspeed installs with no failures.
Add to that the legendary Klaus "no service after the sale and whatever
went wrong is your fault" and my prohibition on this product is more than justified.
While I'm sure I'll generate a lot of "my Lightspeed have been perfect" comments,
the mental image of seeing a Lightspeed power breaker pop and not reset while
flying is etched into my brain.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Slick Ignition Harness
That's fine, to each his own. I know on the 4 cylinders they haven't been bad,
and I'd even be willing to use them on a 4 cylinder engine.
But with previous gearing issues they've had and knowing that the
6 cylinder has different issues in relation to the mag drive, I personally am not
willing to stick something on that gear case until there are a few years and
maybe 1,000 units in the field that haven't had an issue for a good while.
I'm not willing to be THAT experimental in my ignition.
I have lightspeed and it's been good, but, it's the granddaddy of electronic ignition
systems at this point. Yes, there are newer, but I want to see more track
record on them.
For those who like that Gen3 or whatever it is, that attaches to a mag, before
you go that route, you may want to talk to my buddy Lenny. He was sold on them
from the beginning but when he finally pulled them off, he actually destroyed
them just so they wouldn't get into anyone elses hands. He now has a Lightspeed
on his plane too.
But that all does not discount your experience on your RV-8A.
I think the pMags have pretty much proven themselves on that platform, and I have
no issues with them there. And, if you choose to put them on your RV-10, I
can applaud that as well.
SOMEONE has to be the one to take the leap, and if you're willing, go for it. We'll
all benefit from the knowledge.
It's just something that I'm not willing to stick my neck out on either. I would
also say it's too early to say "hey everyone, jump on this bandwagon and try
them out!" because without a track record, it could just lead people into something
that could increase our insurance rate. If it goes well though, no big
deal.
Tim
On 9/16/2016 8:51 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
> Tim,
>
>
> I note your comment, Philosophically not ready to trust 2 electronic
> ignitions and I definitely won't be trusting the P-Mag, if it EVER
> comes out, for at least 8-10 years. If there weren't issues we would
> have seen it years ago and I know fears were issues. And the talk
> about impulse coupler problems has me wondering if harmonics aren't
> their big problem.
>
>
> The RV-10 is the first airplane Ive owned with mags (the RV-8A now
> has
> 900 hours on dual pMags). Im now pushing 400 hours on the RV-10 and
> the mags are in need of overhaul. Im also on my second set of
> overpriced aircraft plugs. After careful cylinder balancing I can fly
> LOP, but above 11k the fixed 25 degrees of advance clearly shows its
> limitations.
>
>
> I have some sympathy for eMag on their extended road to produce a TSO
> ignition. While the experimental market is ready, they see the prize
> being all those spam cans out there with owners wanting something
> better than a 1930 era magneto.
>
>
> Considering my personal operational experience with eMag, I will be
> installing dual six cylinder pMags on the RV-10 as soon as they mail
> them to me.
>
>
> Carl
>
>
> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Tim Olson
> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 8:03 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Slick Ignition Harness
>
>
> I'd agree with everything you said.
>
> FIXING a harness would be affordable but these days the prices of
> harness components is just too high and so are the harnesses. We're
> all screwed if we want it done cheap. The cheapest option would be to
> find a harness that we can use 1/2 of. Unfortunately it's almost
> impossible to buy a 1/2 harness now. So you buy a complete system and
> only use 1/2. If you're lucky and can use a stock part number then
> it's not totally unaffordable.
>
> But finding a consistent proper length stock harness is tough as slick
> vs Kelly/skytronics don't seem to follow the same lengths.
>
> Having a custom harness done is not that much more expensive if you go
> Kelly/Skytronics, but, the process is painful and long. It took me
> many emails and phone calls to get the guy to get an order set up for
> what I wanted on the RV14. Then it took a good couple weeks or more to
> get the harness. I don't remember if it was 2 or 4'weeks but it was
> long enough to Irritate me a little. Still, it worked out...and if
> you need every lead to be custom
>
> Length it's still the cheapest way to go because buying all 4 or 6
> leads is more expensive than custom. What also would be maybe even
> more affordable and possibly quicker is to buy a new stock complete
> harness and then tear it all apart and transplant the cables from one
> harness to another to make a custom one DIY. That is my likely plan I
> guess next time. One benefit is that then you will have a spare harness cap as
well.
>
> Sadly they make it so expensive and tough to keep these mags in
> service that it gets tempting to remove both but I am
>
> Philosophically not ready to trust 2 electronic ignitions and I
> definitely won't be trusting the P-Mag, if it EVER comes out, for at
> least 8-10 years. If there weren't issues we would have seen it years
> ago and I know fears were issues. And the talk about impulse coupler
> problems has me wondering if harmonics aren't their big problem.
>
> Anyone know if the engine gear needs to be changed if I pull an
> impulse coupled mag and put on a non-impulse mag? Next time I need an
> Overhaul I think I'll go non impulse.
>
>
> Anyway, harnesses are a pain so my advice is to care for them well,
> monitor them for issues, and then come up with your plan or a
> replacement harness BEFORE you need one because it may take a while to
> get what you want.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On Sep 16, 2016, at 1:16 AM, Albert <ibspud@roadrunner.com
> <mailto:ibspud@roadrunner.com>> wrote:
>
> I made repairs to my Slick harness and have some things to share. I
> understand there are various mag models and this may not apply to
> them but mine is a 6351. The pdf document that Tim Olsen shared
> (Champion L-1499B Ignition Lead Assembly & Maintenance Manual) is
> what I referred to. I bought the T-200 Slick Ignition Harness Tool
> Kit from Spruce and three 72" lead assemblies (Kelley S100-72) . The
> maintenance manual is somewhat inadequate in that it referes to
> Slick Ignition wires that apparently differ from either Skytronics
> or Kelley. The Slick wires referred to in the maintenance manual
> have a coiled center conductor whereas Skytronics and Kelley have a
> stranded conductor. On Slick wire you have to insert the little
> screw (that holds the spring) into the coiled conductor but on
> stranded wire it is crimped on. I just happened to have a crimper
> that works which I got from SteirAir to crimp the pins for my
> intercom connectors.
>
>
> Since the spark plug ends are already on the Kelley leads, cutting
> them to the right length, crimping the little screw on and then
> pressing them into the mag cap went well. The Kelley 72" leads are
> somewhat expensive, for me about $85 each so to build a complete 6
> or 12 wire harness would be out of the question. Better to buy one.
> My problem was I couldn't find out how long the leads were in any
> specific kit without pulling one off the shelf and measuring them
> plus I had 3 leads that were long enough so only needed 3. Also lead
> time to have a custom harness made were way too long.
>
>
> I see big problems in trying to make your own harness: where to get
> lead wire and where to get the various parts at the mag end (drive
> ferrule, insulator sleeve, crimp on connector and spring). Plus you
> will have to make up the plug end also and get those parts.
>
>
> Repairing mine using Kelleys leads worked OK for me but next time
> I'm going to look for someone else to make me a complete harness.
>
> Albert Gardner
>
> RV-10 N991RV
>
> Yuma, AZ
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Was slick Ignition Harness now EI |
I remember you saying that I think from previous posts.
It's interesting the experience difference you had.
I've never had a breaker pop ever, of any sort, in either plane yet.
And I've never had an ignition failure once the engine was
running, other than a mag on an old plane. So I guess I'm
pretty lucky. Most of the RV-10 buddies I have, have one
lightspeed and one mag. One has 2 lightspeeds.
For what it's worth, having flown to stop by Klaus's hangar
before, but also had email/phone support, I think it's a mixed
bag. I've been on the end of the "it's your fault" thing with
him, but I think a lot of that has to do with trust, and with
the commonality of moronic customers. :) I work in a field
that causes me to do tech support daily and I totally get
what drives those types of responses. You learn quick not to
trust anyone, and you see people do stupid things time after
time after time. So you become preloaded to just realize that
most issues ARE caused by the user. Mainly because it's
a true fact in the largest percentage of cases. I found that
once he had some trust in me though, he has always been very
nice to talk to, and I'm not treated badly at all. But you have
to get thru the initial "you must be doing it wrong" before
you can get that far. Yeah, ideally it wouldn't be this way,
but I certainly understand why it is. Also, a builder needs to
be fully willing to do all the troubleshooting legwork to diagnose
the problem. Too many people call and just complain and want
you to fix it or diagnose it over the phone. If someone
can step up and test things and provide data, they can get
somewhere much easier. (I'm not saying you did or didn't do
anything when talking to him...this is all generalization)
Anyway, you're right, you'll hear lots of satisfied people with
no issues, and lots of negative support comments when it comes
to LSE, and a few failure stories as well. Nothing too
unusual. I feel perfectly comfortable with them obviously, because
I put one on my RV-14 after flying 10 years in the -10. But,
I also have a spare box for the -10 and want one for the -14 too.
I don't feel comfortable with ANY product that has only a small
handful of people working in the company that you can get parts
or support from. This includes basically ALL electronic ignition
companies. About the only place you can count fully on support
long term is slick and bendix. Beyond that, if the wrong
airplane crashes with the wrong company people in it, you
may need to retrofit a new system if yours fails. So, best to
be prepared for the worst. I'm a guy who likes having spares. :)
Tim
On 9/16/2016 10:05 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
> <carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
>
> Thanks Tim, we are on the same page. I know eMag is doing an
> extensive testing program as the FAA will be looking at any hiccups
> during their TSO cert. I too will be looking at the pMag test data
> before jumping in.
>
> I note your comment on Lightspeed. I do have a track record with
> Lightspeed and I consider any Lightspeed install to make the aircraft
> un-airworthy. I had multiple failures of a dual Lightspeed install
> in the 8A before I pulled them and installed the pMags. I know of
> more people with Lightspeed installs that had hard failures than I
> know of people with Lightspeed installs with no failures. Add to
> that the legendary Klaus "no service after the sale and whatever went
> wrong is your fault" and my prohibition on this product is more than
> justified.
>
> While I'm sure I'll generate a lot of "my Lightspeed have been
> perfect" comments, the mental image of seeing a Lightspeed power
> breaker pop and not reset while flying is etched into my brain.
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 10:27 AM To:
> rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Slick Ignition
> Harness
>
>
> That's fine, to each his own. I know on the 4 cylinders they haven't
> been bad, and I'd even be willing to use them on a 4 cylinder
> engine. But with previous gearing issues they've had and knowing that
> the 6 cylinder has different issues in relation to the mag drive, I
> personally am not willing to stick something on that gear case until
> there are a few years and maybe 1,000 units in the field that haven't
> had an issue for a good while. I'm not willing to be THAT
> experimental in my ignition.
>
> I have lightspeed and it's been good, but, it's the granddaddy of
> electronic ignition systems at this point. Yes, there are newer, but
> I want to see more track record on them.
>
> For those who like that Gen3 or whatever it is, that attaches to a
> mag, before you go that route, you may want to talk to my buddy
> Lenny. He was sold on them from the beginning but when he finally
> pulled them off, he actually destroyed them just so they wouldn't get
> into anyone elses hands. He now has a Lightspeed on his plane too.
>
> But that all does not discount your experience on your RV-8A. I think
> the pMags have pretty much proven themselves on that platform, and I
> have no issues with them there. And, if you choose to put them on
> your RV-10, I can applaud that as well. SOMEONE has to be the one to
> take the leap, and if you're willing, go for it. We'll all benefit
> from the knowledge. It's just something that I'm not willing to stick
> my neck out on either. I would also say it's too early to say "hey
> everyone, jump on this bandwagon and try them out!" because without a
> track record, it could just lead people into something that could
> increase our insurance rate. If it goes well though, no big deal.
>
> Tim
>
> On 9/16/2016 8:51 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>> Tim,
>>
>>
>>
>> I note your comment, Philosophically not ready to trust 2
>> electronic ignitions and I definitely won't be trusting the P-Mag,
>> if it EVER comes out, for at least 8-10 years. If there weren't
>> issues we would have seen it years ago and I know fears were
>> issues. And the talk about impulse coupler problems has me
>> wondering if harmonics aren't their big problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> The RV-10 is the first airplane Ive owned with mags (the RV-8A now
>> has 900 hours on dual pMags). Im now pushing 400 hours on the
>> RV-10 and the mags are in need of overhaul. Im also on my second
>> set of overpriced aircraft plugs. After careful cylinder balancing
>> I can fly LOP, but above 11k the fixed 25 degrees of advance
>> clearly shows its limitations.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have some sympathy for eMag on their extended road to produce a
>> TSO ignition. While the experimental market is ready, they see the
>> prize being all those spam cans out there with owners wanting
>> something better than a 1930 era magneto.
>>
>>
>>
>> Considering my personal operational experience with eMag, I will be
>> installing dual six cylinder pMags on the RV-10 as soon as they
>> mail them to me.
>>
>>
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Tim
>> Olson *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 8:03 AM *To:*
>> rv10-list@matronics.com *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Slick Ignition
>> Harness
>>
>>
>>
>> I'd agree with everything you said.
>>
>> FIXING a harness would be affordable but these days the prices of
>> harness components is just too high and so are the harnesses.
>> We're all screwed if we want it done cheap. The cheapest option
>> would be to find a harness that we can use 1/2 of. Unfortunately
>> it's almost impossible to buy a 1/2 harness now. So you buy a
>> complete system and only use 1/2. If you're lucky and can use a
>> stock part number then it's not totally unaffordable.
>>
>> But finding a consistent proper length stock harness is tough as
>> slick vs Kelly/skytronics don't seem to follow the same lengths.
>>
>> Having a custom harness done is not that much more expensive if you
>> go Kelly/Skytronics, but, the process is painful and long. It took
>> me many emails and phone calls to get the guy to get an order set
>> up for what I wanted on the RV14. Then it took a good couple weeks
>> or more to get the harness. I don't remember if it was 2 or
>> 4'weeks but it was long enough to Irritate me a little. Still, it
>> worked out...and if you need every lead to be custom
>>
>> Length it's still the cheapest way to go because buying all 4 or 6
>> leads is more expensive than custom. What also would be maybe
>> even more affordable and possibly quicker is to buy a new stock
>> complete harness and then tear it all apart and transplant the
>> cables from one harness to another to make a custom one DIY. That
>> is my likely plan I guess next time. One benefit is that then you
>> will have a spare harness cap as well.
>>
>> Sadly they make it so expensive and tough to keep these mags in
>> service that it gets tempting to remove both but I am
>>
>> Philosophically not ready to trust 2 electronic ignitions and I
>> definitely won't be trusting the P-Mag, if it EVER comes out, for
>> at least 8-10 years. If there weren't issues we would have seen it
>> years ago and I know fears were issues. And the talk about impulse
>> coupler problems has me wondering if harmonics aren't their big
>> problem.
>>
>> Anyone know if the engine gear needs to be changed if I pull an
>> impulse coupled mag and put on a non-impulse mag? Next time I need
>> an Overhaul I think I'll go non impulse.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyway, harnesses are a pain so my advice is to care for them well,
>> monitor them for issues, and then come up with your plan or a
>> replacement harness BEFORE you need one because it may take a while
>> to get what you want.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> On Sep 16, 2016, at 1:16 AM, Albert <ibspud@roadrunner.com
>> <mailto:ibspud@roadrunner.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I made repairs to my Slick harness and have some things to share.
>> I understand there are various mag models and this may not apply
>> to them but mine is a 6351. The pdf document that Tim Olsen shared
>> (Champion L-1499B Ignition Lead Assembly & Maintenance Manual) is
>> what I referred to. I bought the T-200 Slick Ignition Harness Tool
>> Kit from Spruce and three 72" lead assemblies (Kelley S100-72) .
>> The maintenance manual is somewhat inadequate in that it referes
>> to Slick Ignition wires that apparently differ from either
>> Skytronics or Kelley. The Slick wires referred to in the
>> maintenance manual have a coiled center conductor whereas
>> Skytronics and Kelley have a stranded conductor. On Slick wire you
>> have to insert the little screw (that holds the spring) into the
>> coiled conductor but on stranded wire it is crimped on. I just
>> happened to have a crimper that works which I got from SteirAir to
>> crimp the pins for my intercom connectors.
>>
>>
>>
>> Since the spark plug ends are already on the Kelley leads, cutting
>> them to the right length, crimping the little screw on and then
>> pressing them into the mag cap went well. The Kelley 72" leads
>> are somewhat expensive, for me about $85 each so to build a
>> complete 6 or 12 wire harness would be out of the question. Better
>> to buy one. My problem was I couldn't find out how long the leads
>> were in any specific kit without pulling one off the shelf and
>> measuring them plus I had 3 leads that were long enough so only
>> needed 3. Also lead time to have a custom harness made were way too
>> long.
>>
>>
>>
>> I see big problems in trying to make your own harness: where to
>> get lead wire and where to get the various parts at the mag end
>> (drive ferrule, insulator sleeve, crimp on connector and spring).
>> Plus you will have to make up the plug end also and get those
>> parts.
>>
>>
>>
>> Repairing mine using Kelleys leads worked OK for me but next time
>> I'm going to look for someone else to make me a complete harness.
>>
>> Albert Gardner
>>
>> RV-10 N991RV
>>
>> Yuma, AZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|