Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:23 AM - Re: Advice (Ron Walker)
2. 05:32 AM - Re: Advice (Bill Boyd)
3. 07:02 AM - Re: Advice (Kelly McMullen)
4. 07:02 AM - Re: Advice (Kelly McMullen)
5. 09:50 AM - Re: Advice (hotwheels)
6. 10:11 AM - Re: Advice (Bill Watson)
7. 10:15 AM - Re: Advice (Bill Watson)
8. 02:11 PM - Advice (John MacCallum)
9. 05:34 PM - Re: Advice (John MacCallum)
10. 06:17 PM - RV-10 Down (Bruce Breckenridge)
11. 06:40 PM - Re: Advice (Linn Walters)
12. 09:22 PM - Re: RV-10 Down (Bob Turner)
13. 11:04 PM - Re: Advice (Justin Jones)
Message 1
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Thanks for all the hints ! Looks like the most popular is to ensure the
elevator trim is set up correctly. I played the rigging game a couple
weeks back and it has the required travel.
FAA guys are coming up from the SA FSDO next Wednesday for the AWC
inspection - gonna be a weekend of quadruple checking everything over !
--Ron
On 10/06/2016 11:35 AM, Ron Walker wrote:
>
> Posing the question for any sound advice you may have to offer prior
> to first flight of my 10 ?
>
> I've been through first flight once already with my 7a. The 10 seems
> different though. I've already done 6 hrs training in the factory 10
> with Mike.
>
> Anything specific to be aware of ? Any recommendations from those that
> have been through this already ? Anything you would have done
> differently ?
>
> Thanks !
>
> --Ron
>
Message 2
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I appreciate the input, guys. Sorry to drift the thread away from the
original question about recommendations, caveats, and preparations. This
decision is many years away for me at the pace I /have a kitchen pass to/
work.
As to Lyle's point, I will be making thousands of subsequent flights from a
short grass strip regardless of where the first few were done. For each of
those flights, history still will not be a predictor. I will be a more
experienced RV-10 pilot later on, true. But the engine and systems will be
more worn with each, and any eventual failures will be more imminent as
time builds.
My concerns are more about the piloting challenges (for the inexperienced)
of operating the 10 from a short grass field than about the remote
likelihood of mechanical failure. How hard would it likely have been for
y'all to nail a decent short/soft field landing as a low time -10 pilot
with all the other first-flight things going on and only a few hours with a
transition instructor under your belt? How similar is 6A fixed pitch
performance to 10 CS on landing? How well can I expect my 900 hours here
to translate from the one model to the other when it's do or die time?
Things like that...
-Stormy
On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 10:04 PM, Lyle Peterson <lyleap@centurylink.net>
wrote:
> And it might well have been the last two minutes that the engine would
> run. History is not a good predictor of engine life.
>
> If the OP is concerned about making the first flight from a short grass
> strip he should not do it.
>
> On 10/6/2016 4:40 PM, Metrocast wrote:
>
> I watched a Lancair test pilot fly a first flight
> He ran the airplane with it tied down and people holding the wings down
> for 2 minutes at full throttle
> He said if the engine runs for 2 minutes he can make it back to the airpo
rt
> Alan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 6, 2016, at 6:46 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> I built and live on a 3300' grass strip (with obstructions). I also had
> 1000+ hours flying off the strip. Not a whole lot of off field options (a
nd
> I'm a bit of a connoisseur of such things). My tech advisor and airport
> manager suggested doing the first flight elsewhere. I was hesitant becau
se
> it means doing the final assembly elsewhere. The roughness of the field
is
> what made me go elsewhere, thinking " if something was amiss on the roll,
> would I detect it easily given all the new sensations"?
>
> A long smooth strip with flat surroundings is a very good thing... but m
y
> '10 flew beautifully and easily from the beginning so no real lesson
> there. If the engine runs and the pitch trim is under control - no probl
em.
>
> Final assembly took a month or two longer than I anticipated despite
> working on it 7 days a week - should have kept it to 5/week. I did get a
> chance to work in a hangar along side an A&P - great learning experience
.
>
> Best of all, I had to fly from my backyard strip to the test strip each
> day. I was never a better takeoff/landing pilot. Three months of 6-7 da
ys
> a week tailwheel flying = proficiency. You pros may take it for grant
ed
> but flying daily takes it up to another level - great prep for an initia
l
> flight even though the '10 has little to do with my 'ol Maule. Do that i
f
> you can.
>
> Bill "thrilling to the view thru my borescope to the delight of the
> mosquitoes" Watson
>
>
> On 10/6/2016 4:07 PM, Bill Boyd wrote:
>
> Just curious - how many of you would make your first -10 flight off a 210
0
> foot grass strip?
>
> Been flying my 6A out of the back yard for 900+ hours now, but did my
> first flights out of LWB with 7001 feet of asphalt and crash trucks
> available. Daydreaming of the day I finish the 10 and whether I would be
> foolish not to disassemble it and truck it 40 miles on a roll-back for th
e
> big day.
>
> Insurance company might have their own thoughts on the matter.
>
> -Bill Boyd
>
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49@msn.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Yeah, make sure your elevator is centered before take-off. Won't say how
>> I know THAT one! =F0=9F=98=9C
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> > On Oct 6, 2016, at 9:45 AM, Ron Walker <n520tx@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Posing the question for any sound advice you may have to offer prior t
o
>> first flight of my 10 ?
>> >
>> > I've been through first flight once already with my 7a. The 10 seems
>> different though. I've already done 6 hrs training in the factory 10 wit
h
>> Mike.
>> >
>> > Anything specific to be aware of ? Any recommendations from those that
>> have been through this already ? Anything you would have done different
ly ?
>> >
>> > Thanks !
>> >
>> > --Ron
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ========================
===========
>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/
>> Navigator?RV10-List
>> ========================
===========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ========================
===========
>> WIKI -
>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> ========================
===========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on
>> ========================
===========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Message 3
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DAR/FSDO inspection will focus on paperwork and that the controls are free
and correct. I had to fix an issue of binding that could not occur with
pilot's legs in place. They will want to know you have an engine run or
two, no leaks, all the required placards and forms filled out correctly. So
don't sweat the mechanical so much, other than for your own protection. It
is unlikely to be a factor in the licensing. There are lots of opinions on
"hi-speed" taxi runs. I did a couple to about 40 kts, more to check
handling than anything else. Not to full power. Your first full power will
surprise you with the acceleration. Suggest that you only use 0 degrees
flaps for first few few takeoffs, until you realize that a half flap
takeoff requires starting flap retraction within the first 50 ft of
altitude to prevent overspeed. Strongly consider the additional pilot
program to have help and experience of a pilot that meets the
qualifications. The first flight you are too busy to observe everything,
much less traffic. I found it didn't take away from my experience doing
first flight, and actually helped significantly.
-sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm
On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 3:58 AM, Ron Walker <n520tx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the hints ! Looks like the most popular is to ensure the
> elevator trim is set up correctly. I played the rigging game a couple weeks
> back and it has the required travel.
>
> FAA guys are coming up from the SA FSDO next Wednesday for the AWC
> inspection - gonna be a weekend of quadruple checking everything over !
>
> --Ron
>
>
> On 10/06/2016 11:35 AM, Ron Walker wrote:
>
>>
>> Posing the question for any sound advice you may have to offer prior to
>> first flight of my 10 ?
>>
>> I've been through first flight once already with my 7a. The 10 seems
>> different though. I've already done 6 hrs training in the factory 10 with
>> Mike.
>>
>> Anything specific to be aware of ? Any recommendations from those that
>> have been through this already ? Anything you would have done differently ?
>>
>> Thanks !
>>
>> --Ron
>>
>>
>
>
Message 4
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I think you would find the extra weight and inertia of the -10 a challenge
in that short of a runway, with less braking available than pavement.
My -10 lands very much like my Mooney, and is about same wt. At 65 hours in
the -10, I still can't land it as short as the Mooney. Do you really want
to be doing a landing with little margin for error on your first flight,
when you have little experience with its low speed handling, wi??th only a
few stalls and small amount of slow flight in it? I'm sure you will be fine
there once you have a bit of time figuring out what is needed for a short
field with little to no braking available. Just don't think it is advisable
for first few flights.
-sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm
On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 4:41 AM, Bill Boyd <sportav8r@gmail.com> wrote:
> I appreciate the input, guys. Sorry to drift the thread away from the
> original question about recommendations, caveats, and preparations. This
> decision is many years away for me at the pace I /have a kitchen pass to/
> work.
>
> As to Lyle's point, I will be making thousands of subsequent flights from
> a short grass strip regardless of where the first few were done. For eac
h
> of those flights, history still will not be a predictor. I will be a mor
e
> experienced RV-10 pilot later on, true. But the engine and systems will
be
> more worn with each, and any eventual failures will be more imminent as
> time builds.
>
> My concerns are more about the piloting challenges (for the inexperienced
)
> of operating the 10 from a short grass field than about the remote
> likelihood of mechanical failure. How hard would it likely have been for
> y'all to nail a decent short/soft field landing as a low time -10 pilot
> with all the other first-flight things going on and only a few hours with
a
> transition instructor under your belt? How similar is 6A fixed pitch
> performance to 10 CS on landing? How well can I expect my 900 hours here
> to translate from the one model to the other when it's do or die time?
> Things like that...
>
> -Stormy
>
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 10:04 PM, Lyle Peterson <lyleap@centurylink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> And it might well have been the last two minutes that the engine would
>> run. History is not a good predictor of engine life.
>>
>> If the OP is concerned about making the first flight from a short grass
>> strip he should not do it.
>>
>> On 10/6/2016 4:40 PM, Metrocast wrote:
>>
>> I watched a Lancair test pilot fly a first flight
>> He ran the airplane with it tied down and people holding the wings down
>> for 2 minutes at full throttle
>> He said if the engine runs for 2 minutes he can make it back to the
>> airport
>> Alan
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 6, 2016, at 6:46 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> I built and live on a 3300' grass strip (with obstructions). I also had
>> 1000+ hours flying off the strip. Not a whole lot of off field options (
and
>> I'm a bit of a connoisseur of such things). My tech advisor and airport
>> manager suggested doing the first flight elsewhere. I was hesitant beca
use
>> it means doing the final assembly elsewhere. The roughness of the field
is
>> what made me go elsewhere, thinking " if something was amiss on the roll
,
>> would I detect it easily given all the new sensations"?
>>
>> A long smooth strip with flat surroundings is a very good thing... but
>> my '10 flew beautifully and easily from the beginning so no real lesson
>> there. If the engine runs and the pitch trim is under control - no prob
lem.
>>
>> Final assembly took a month or two longer than I anticipated despite
>> working on it 7 days a week - should have kept it to 5/week. I did get
a
>> chance to work in a hangar along side an A&P - great learning experienc
e.
>>
>> Best of all, I had to fly from my backyard strip to the test strip each
>> day. I was never a better takeoff/landing pilot. Three months of 6-7 d
ays
>> a week tailwheel flying = proficiency. You pros may take it for gran
ted
>> but flying daily takes it up to another level - great prep for an initi
al
>> flight even though the '10 has little to do with my 'ol Maule. Do that
if
>> you can.
>>
>> Bill "thrilling to the view thru my borescope to the delight of the
>> mosquitoes" Watson
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/6/2016 4:07 PM, Bill Boyd wrote:
>>
>> Just curious - how many of you would make your first -10 flight off a
>> 2100 foot grass strip?
>>
>> Been flying my 6A out of the back yard for 900+ hours now, but did my
>> first flights out of LWB with 7001 feet of asphalt and crash trucks
>> available. Daydreaming of the day I finish the 10 and whether I would b
e
>> foolish not to disassemble it and truck it 40 miles on a roll-back for t
he
>> big day.
>>
>> Insurance company might have their own thoughts on the matter.
>>
>> -Bill Boyd
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49@msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, make sure your elevator is centered before take-off. Won't say ho
w
>>> I know THAT one! =F0=9F=98=9C
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> > On Oct 6, 2016, at 9:45 AM, Ron Walker <n520tx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Posing the question for any sound advice you may have to offer prior
>>> to first flight of my 10 ?
>>> >
>>> > I've been through first flight once already with my 7a. The 10 seems
>>> different though. I've already done 6 hrs training in the factory 10 wi
th
>>> Mike.
>>> >
>>> > Anything specific to be aware of ? Any recommendations from those tha
t
>>> have been through this already ? Anything you would have done differen
tly ?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks !
>>> >
>>> > --Ron
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> =======================
============
>>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/
>>> Navigator?RV10-List
>>> =======================
============
>>> FORUMS -
>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> =======================
============
>>> WIKI -
>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>>> =======================
============
>>> b Site -
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
>>> =======================
============
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> [image: Avast logo]
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&ut
m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&ut
m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
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>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
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m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
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>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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>>
>
Message 5
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Expect the unexpected and you won't be surprised...
Orbiting over the airport above pattern altitude for the first couple hours always
seemed like a good idea.
Pitch trim is critical in the -10 and I can totally relate to the comment about
having to immediately push forward and trim right after first takeoff. I think
there was some test flight doc that recommended slight trim up, but adding any
up trim was totally not good, at least for me.
Plan on using the entire runway the first couple of flights and lay off the brakes.
Gentle inputs and minimal control inputs. I would hesitate to do anything
short or soft field until you get a good sense of how your ride behaves.
I had a great ground crew on the radio and their presence really made a difference
in my first-flight comfort level. Ask them to drill you on emergency procedures
beforehand.
Have fun and good luck! I look forward to hearing about your experience.
Cheers,
Jay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461060#461060
Message 6
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I've found the '10 to be an amazingly easy plane to fly and particularly
sweet to land.
I would be confident operating it off a close to sea level short strip
like you have if the approaches are unobstructed and if the overrun is
not lethal. A slope would help. Obstructions directly impact the
effective length - 10X the height is my ROT.
On 10/7/2016 7:41 AM, Bill Boyd wrote:
> I appreciate the input, guys. Sorry to drift the thread away from the
> original question about recommendations, caveats, and preparations.
> This decision is many years away for me at the pace I /have a kitchen
> pass to/ work.
>
> As to Lyle's point, I will be making thousands of subsequent flights
> from a short grass strip regardless of where the first few were done.
> For each of those flights, history still will not be a predictor. I
> will be a more experienced RV-10 pilot later on, true. But the engine
> and systems will be more worn with each, and any eventual failures
> will be more imminent as time builds.
>
> My concerns are more about the piloting challenges (for the
> inexperienced) of operating the 10 from a short grass field than about
> the remote likelihood of mechanical failure. How hard would it likely
> have been for y'all to nail a decent short/soft field landing as a low
> time -10 pilot with all the other first-flight things going on and
> only a few hours with a transition instructor under your belt? How
> similar is 6A fixed pitch performance to 10 CS on landing? How well
> can I expect my 900 hours here to translate from the one model to the
> other when it's do or die time? Things like that...
>
> -Stormy
>
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 10:04 PM, Lyle Peterson <lyleap@centurylink.net
> <mailto:lyleap@centurylink.net>> wrote:
>
> And it might well have been the last two minutes that the engine
> would run. History is not a good predictor of engine life.
>
> If the OP is concerned about making the first flight from a short
> grass strip he should not do it.
>
>
> On 10/6/2016 4:40 PM, Metrocast wrote:
>> I watched a Lancair test pilot fly a first flight
>> He ran the airplane with it tied down and people holding the
>> wings down for 2 minutes at full throttle
>> He said if the engine runs for 2 minutes he can make it back to
>> the airport
>> Alan
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 6, 2016, at 6:46 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com
>> <mailto:Mauledriver@nc.rr.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> I built and live on a 3300' grass strip (with obstructions). I
>>> also had 1000+ hours flying off the strip. Not a whole lot of
>>> off field options (and I'm a bit of a connoisseur of such
>>> things). My tech advisor and airport manager suggested doing
>>> the first flight elsewhere. I was hesitant because it means
>>> doing the final assembly elsewhere. The roughness of the field
>>> is what made me go elsewhere, thinking " if something was amiss
>>> on the roll, would I detect it easily given all the new sensations"?
>>>
>>> A long smooth strip with flat surroundings is a very good
>>> thing... but my '10 flew beautifully and easily from the
>>> beginning so no real lesson there. If the engine runs and the
>>> pitch trim is under control - no problem.
>>>
>>> Final assembly took a month or two longer than I anticipated
>>> despite working on it 7 days a week - should have kept it to
>>> 5/week. I did get a chance to work in a hangar along side an
>>> A&P - great learning experience.
>>>
>>> Best of all, I had to fly from my backyard strip to the test
>>> strip each day. I was never a better takeoff/landing pilot.
>>> Three months of 6-7 days a week tailwheel flying
>>> proficiency. You pros may take it for granted but flying daily
>>> takes it up to another level - great prep for an initial flight
>>> even though the '10 has little to do with my 'ol Maule. Do that
>>> if you can.
>>>
>>> Bill "thrilling to the view thru my borescope to the delight of
>>> the mosquitoes" Watson
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/6/2016 4:07 PM, Bill Boyd wrote:
>>>> Just curious - how many of you would make your first -10 flight
>>>> off a 2100 foot grass strip?
>>>>
>>>> Been flying my 6A out of the back yard for 900+ hours now, but
>>>> did my first flights out of LWB with 7001 feet of asphalt and
>>>> crash trucks available. Daydreaming of the day I finish the 10
>>>> and whether I would be foolish not to disassemble it and truck
>>>> it 40 miles on a roll-back for the big day.
>>>>
>>>> Insurance company might have their own thoughts on the matter.
>>>>
>>>> -Bill Boyd
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49@msn.com
>>>> <mailto:jdriggs49@msn.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <jdriggs49@msn.com <mailto:jdriggs49@msn.com>>
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, make sure your elevator is centered before take-off.
>>>> Won't say how I know THAT one!
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>> > On Oct 6, 2016, at 9:45 AM, Ron Walker <n520tx@gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:n520tx@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> <n520tx@gmail.com <mailto:n520tx@gmail.com>>
>>>> >
>>>> > Posing the question for any sound advice you may have to
>>>> offer prior to first flight of my 10 ?
>>>> >
>>>> > I've been through first flight once already with my 7a.
>>>> The 10 seems different though. I've already done 6 hrs
>>>> training in the factory 10 with Mike.
>>>> >
>>>> > Anything specific to be aware of ? Any recommendations
>>>> from those that have been through this already ? Anything
>>>> you would have done differently ?
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks !
>>>> >
>>>> > --Ron
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ===================================
>>>> -List" rel="noreferrer"
>>>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/
>>>> <http://www.matronics.com/>Navigator?RV10-List
>>>> ===================================
>>>> FORUMS -
>>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>>> ===================================
>>>> WIKI -
>>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>>>> <http://wiki.matronics.com>
>>>> ===================================
>>>> b Site -
>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/
>>>> <http://www.matronics.com/>contribution
>>>> ===================================
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
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Message 7
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As an old RCer, our last check before an initial takeoff was to hold the
nose up to see if the carburetored 2 stroker would keep running after
rotation. It often killed the engine - fuel pickup stuck or
misinstalled, mixture too lean, vent screwed up, throttle clevis falls
off, whatever.
I SO wanted to do that to the '10 before takeoff!
On 10/6/2016 7:40 PM, Metrocast wrote:
> I watched a Lancair test pilot fly a first flight
> He ran the airplane with it tied down and people holding the wings
> down for 2 minutes at full throttle
> He said if the engine runs for 2 minutes he can make it back to the
> airport
> Alan
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Message 8
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I think the High Power Run for 2 mins is a good Idea. I had my 10 Tied
to my Hi Lux Pick up when I did my run.
I didn=99t find all the fuel leaks though. The Fuel Spider has a
Pressure take off nipple that I didn=99t realise has a restrictor
in it and is meant to
connect to a Pressure sensing Fuel Flow Gauge. I didn=99t
discover it was leaking fuel until during the 3rd flight. I smelt the
fuel during flight and so I did
an emergency decent to the runway and pulled the cowling off. I could
see the stain from the 100 LL Avgas down. The side of the crankcase.
As for Elevator Trim. My 10 ended up quite nose heavy and needs 30lbs of
Ballast in the Baggage compartment when operating with one Pilot on
board.
Even with the CG almost full forward and with a single pilot the
elevator trim needs to be about 1/16 =9C nose down on the trim
tabs or it will climb quite nose
high and the loading on the stick to hold the nose down will get quite
high.
Also on landing with just myself on board I only use =C2=BD flap as Full
Flap will make it hard to get the nose up during the flare and hold off.
The first time
I tried a full flap landing with just myself on board it landed very
flat and I was really worried it would touch down nose first. I estimate
that maybe it was only
a few inches off being a nose wheel first touchdown.
With about 75 hours on VH-DUU now I can reliably get it down within
about 600 ft of sealed runway and half flap. With a full load I use full
flap to get the touchdown
Speed a bit slower and it is a bit harder to stop and the brakes do
demand quite high pedal pressure.
On about the 5th flight I didn=99t get the Weather before I took
off from Rwy 35 as it was CAVOK and a beautiful day! After about 1 hour
of flying I noticed that the wind
had changed quite a bit and I discovered what was 330 at 6 knots had
become 270 at 20 knots. Since I didn=99t want to bend the Aircraft
I had just built, Bathurst NSW has a dirt cross a strip, Rwy 28 which I
made use of. And so my 10 had its first unsealed Op! Thank heavens for
cross strips!
With the flaps in the reflex position I rotate at 65 knots and then
climb out at 117 to 120 knots. Fuel flow should be at around 24.7 to25
gph at full power.
For landing, half flap on Base at around 80 knots, Final back to 75
knots and then over the threshold let the speed bleed off in the flare
so that you touch down
Somewhere below 70, say 65 knots. You=99ll find the 10 very nice
to land and very responsive to the rudder for cross wind ops.
So to summarise , check the fuel system over well, maybe even tie the
tail down and run the engine with Aircraft in a climb attitude at full
power for a few mins.
Keep the Elevator trim at neutral or even slightly nose down, have a
cross strip available and don=99t go too far away from the Airport
for the first few flights.
Cheers
John MacCallum
VH-DUU
RV 10 # 41016
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Watson
Sent: Saturday, 8 October 2016 4:12 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Advice
As an old RCer, our last check before an initial takeoff was to hold the
nose up to see if the carburetored 2 stroker would keep running after
rotation. It often killed the engine - fuel pickup stuck or
misinstalled, mixture too lean, vent screwed up, throttle clevis falls
off, whatever.
I SO wanted to do that to the '10 before takeoff!
On 10/6/2016 7:40 PM, Metrocast wrote:
I watched a Lancair test pilot fly a first flight
He ran the airplane with it tied down and people holding the wings down
for 2 minutes at full throttle
He said if the engine runs for 2 minutes he can make it back to the
airport
Alan
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Message 9
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Just a correction to that Landing Distance. Didn=99t convert
Meters very well there. Around 330m which is about 1080 ft. (makes a bit
of a difference I know)
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
MacCallum
Sent: Saturday, 8 October 2016 8:08 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Advice
I think the High Power Run for 2 mins is a good Idea. I had my 10 Tied
to my Hi Lux Pick up when I did my run.
I didn=99t find all the fuel leaks though. The Fuel Spider has a
Pressure take off nipple that I didn=99t realise has a restrictor
in it and is meant to
connect to a Pressure sensing Fuel Flow Gauge. I didn=99t
discover it was leaking fuel until during the 3rd flight. I smelt the
fuel during flight and so I did
an emergency decent to the runway and pulled the cowling off. I could
see the stain from the 100 LL Avgas down. The side of the crankcase.
As for Elevator Trim. My 10 ended up quite nose heavy and needs 30lbs of
Ballast in the Baggage compartment when operating with one Pilot on
board.
Even with the CG almost full forward and with a single pilot the
elevator trim needs to be about 1/16 =9C nose down on the trim
tabs or it will climb quite nose
high and the loading on the stick to hold the nose down will get quite
high.
Also on landing with just myself on board I only use =C2=BD flap as Full
Flap will make it hard to get the nose up during the flare and hold off.
The first time
I tried a full flap landing with just myself on board it landed very
flat and I was really worried it would touch down nose first. I estimate
that maybe it was only
a few inches off being a nose wheel first touchdown.
With about 75 hours on VH-DUU now I can reliably get it down within
about 600 ft of sealed runway and half flap. With a full load I use full
flap to get the touchdown
Speed a bit slower and it is a bit harder to stop and the brakes do
demand quite high pedal pressure.
On about the 5th flight I didn=99t get the Weather before I took
off from Rwy 35 as it was CAVOK and a beautiful day! After about 1 hour
of flying I noticed that the wind
had changed quite a bit and I discovered what was 330 at 6 knots had
become 270 at 20 knots. Since I didn=99t want to bend the Aircraft
I had just built, Bathurst NSW has a dirt cross a strip, Rwy 28 which I
made use of. And so my 10 had its first unsealed Op! Thank heavens for
cross strips!
With the flaps in the reflex position I rotate at 65 knots and then
climb out at 117 to 120 knots. Fuel flow should be at around 24.7 to25
gph at full power.
For landing, half flap on Base at around 80 knots, Final back to 75
knots and then over the threshold let the speed bleed off in the flare
so that you touch down
Somewhere below 70, say 65 knots. You=99ll find the 10 very nice
to land and very responsive to the rudder for cross wind ops.
So to summarise , check the fuel system over well, maybe even tie the
tail down and run the engine with Aircraft in a climb attitude at full
power for a few mins.
Keep the Elevator trim at neutral or even slightly nose down, have a
cross strip available and don=99t go too far away from the Airport
for the first few flights.
Cheers
John MacCallum
VH-DUU
RV 10 # 41016
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Watson
Sent: Saturday, 8 October 2016 4:12 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Advice
As an old RCer, our last check before an initial takeoff was to hold the
nose up to see if the carburetored 2 stroker would keep running after
rotation. It often killed the engine - fuel pickup stuck or
misinstalled, mixture too lean, vent screwed up, throttle clevis falls
off, whatever.
I SO wanted to do that to the '10 before takeoff!
On 10/6/2016 7:40 PM, Metrocast wrote:
I watched a Lancair test pilot fly a first flight
He ran the airplane with it tied down and people holding the wings down
for 2 minutes at full throttle
He said if the engine runs for 2 minutes he can make it back to the
airport
Alan
_____
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Message 10
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Reports are coming in from Bath County Virginia that an RV-10 saved a
couple people's lives today. I'm sure we'll hear more on why it went down.
Glad they're OK!
Bruce Breckenridge
40018
Message 11
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Two things come to mind .....
1) My advice is to depart the grass strip, fly to adjacent airport for
first few landings to full stop so you are comfortable with the
landings, and have a good idea of how much runway you will use.
Remember that grass length impacts the roll-out .... long grass shorter
roll, short grass longer roll ..... and panic stopping will be non-existent.
2) If you must try your first landings on a short grass strip be
prepared to go around if you are the least bit concerned that anything
on your planned landing profile isn't perfect.
I've been in/out of grass strips a lot over the years and am still
learning to control the pucker factor.
Linn
On 10/7/2016 7:41 AM, Bill Boyd wrote:
> I appreciate the input, guys. Sorry to drift the thread away from the
> original question about recommendations, caveats, and preparations.
> This decision is many years away for me at the pace I /have a kitchen
> pass to/ work.
>
> As to Lyle's point, I will be making thousands of subsequent flights
> from a short grass strip regardless of where the first few were done.
> For each of those flights, history still will not be a predictor. I
> will be a more experienced RV-10 pilot later on, true. But the engine
> and systems will be more worn with each, and any eventual failures
> will be more imminent as time builds.
>
> My concerns are more about the piloting challenges (for the
> inexperienced) of operating the 10 from a short grass field than about
> the remote likelihood of mechanical failure. How hard would it likely
> have been for y'all to nail a decent short/soft field landing as a low
> time -10 pilot with all the other first-flight things going on and
> only a few hours with a transition instructor under your belt? How
> similar is 6A fixed pitch performance to 10 CS on landing? How well
> can I expect my 900 hours here to translate from the one model to the
> other when it's do or die time? Things like that...
>
> -Stormy
Message 12
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News reports say they were 'vfr' in imc.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461084#461084
Message 13
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I think anyone operating in any flight during Phase 1 should read AC 90-89. It
offers some great suggestions and pointers.
http://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac%2090-89a.pdf
> On Oct 8, 2016, at 10:35, Linn Walters <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> Two things come to mind .....
> 1) My advice is to depart the grass strip, fly to adjacent airport for first
few landings to full stop so you are comfortable with the landings, and have a
good idea of how much runway you will use. Remember that grass length impacts
the roll-out .... long grass shorter roll, short grass longer roll ..... and
panic stopping will be non-existent.
>
> 2) If you must try your first landings on a short grass strip be prepared to
go around if you are the least bit concerned that anything on your planned landing
profile isn't perfect.
>
> I've been in/out of grass strips a lot over the years and am still learning to
control the pucker factor.
> Linn
>
>> On 10/7/2016 7:41 AM, Bill Boyd wrote:
>> I appreciate the input, guys. Sorry to drift the thread away from the original
question about recommendations, caveats, and preparations. This decision
is many years away for me at the pace I /have a kitchen pass to/ work.
>>
>> As to Lyle's point, I will be making thousands of subsequent flights from a
short grass strip regardless of where the first few were done. For each of those
flights, history still will not be a predictor. I will be a more experienced
RV-10 pilot later on, true. But the engine and systems will be more worn
with each, and any eventual failures will be more imminent as time builds.
>>
>> My concerns are more about the piloting challenges (for the inexperienced) of
operating the 10 from a short grass field than about the remote likelihood of
mechanical failure. How hard would it likely have been for y'all to nail a decent
short/soft field landing as a low time -10 pilot with all the other first-flight
things going on and only a few hours with a transition instructor under
your belt? How similar is 6A fixed pitch performance to 10 CS on landing?
How well can I expect my 900 hours here to translate from the one model to the
other when it's do or die time? Things like that...
>>
>> -Stormy
>
>
>
>
>
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