Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:04 AM - Re: January Wx Advice (Flysrv10)
2. 05:00 AM - Re: Added ADS-B (Jesse Saint)
3. 06:10 AM - tips (David)
4. 06:47 AM - transition (David)
5. 07:18 AM - Re: Added ADS-B (David Saylor)
6. 08:12 AM - Re: tips (Tim Olson)
7. 08:38 AM - Re: tips (Lenny Iszak)
8. 09:42 AM - Re: tips (Bob Turner)
9. 10:12 AM - Re: Added ADS-B (Marcus Cooper)
10. 10:37 AM - Re: transition (Bob Turner)
11. 11:07 AM - Re: Re: transition (Tim Olson)
12. 11:21 AM - Re: Re: transition (Berck E. Nash)
13. 11:23 AM - Re: transition (dmaib@me.com)
14. 11:46 AM - Re: Added ADS-B (Jesse Saint)
15. 12:09 PM - Re: Added ADS-B (Marcus Cooper)
16. 12:26 PM - Re: transition (dmaib@me.com)
17. 12:45 PM - Re: transition (Bob Turner)
18. 12:51 PM - Re: Re: transition (Tim Olson)
19. 12:56 PM - Re: Added ADS-B (Bob Turner)
20. 12:57 PM - Re: Re: transition (Tim Olson)
21. 01:02 PM - Re: Re: transition (John Miller)
22. 01:03 PM - Re: transition (Bob Turner)
23. 01:08 PM - Re: Added ADS-B (Tim Olson)
24. 01:19 PM - Re: transition (Bob Turner)
25. 01:27 PM - Re: Added ADS-B (Jesse Saint)
26. 01:45 PM - Re: Added ADS-B (Bob Turner)
27. 02:08 PM - Re: Re: Added ADS-B (Linn Walters)
28. 03:34 PM - Re: Added ADS-B (Bob Turner)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: January Wx Advice |
Beware of low level fog in southern Alabama and northern Florida in the morning.
Otherwise, you will have great weather at destination.
Do not archive
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 18, 2016, at 7:01 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> wrote:
>
>
> Typical weather in FL is very nice unless a front is coming through. I could
probably tuck you in the hangar at X35 for a little while. How long are you thinking?
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> 352-427-0285
> jesse@saintaviation.com
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 6:50 PM, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> In early January I am thinking of flying from Alberta Canada (think Montana)
to Orlando Florida.
>>
>> The north west weather I am familiar with (that's why I going to Florida). What
I am wondering about is the weather enroute. Typically is the weather that
time of year reasonable? Somewhere along Nebraska / Kansas / Arkansas / Alabama
/ Georgia etc.
>>
>> Also, are there any short term hanger options that anyone can recommend near
WDW (Orlando)?
>>
>> Cheers & and thanks for the advice.
>>
>> Les
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461435#461435
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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What was the total cost of this upgrade?
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 19, 2016, at 12:30 AM, David Saylor <saylor.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> We recently did some avionics upgrades to add ADS-B functions and a few other
bells and whistles.
>
> I installed a Garmin GTX345 and a Flightstream 210. The shop I bought it from
helped me configure the new goodies once it was fired up.
>
> It works very well. We have ADS-B traffic and weather displayed on a 530. The
transponder and Flightstream each bluetooth to Foreflight so we have the ADS-B
products there as well.
>
> One cool thing the Flightstream does is to transfer the flight plan back and
forth--change it on the 530 or the iPad and it's just a few clicks to update the
other. It's even relatively intuitive.
>
> The wiring was a pain but now that it's done I'm glad we did the upgrade.
>
> --Dave
>
> Oh and I have a 327 for sale...
Message 3
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Two things struck a remembrance for me. The control cables from Vans seem to
be of lower quality; I believe the cable cores are made of a material with a
lower melt point. When your engine is shutdown, the temperature under the
cowl rises very rapidly before cooling; the cores partially melt and become
"sticky" or difficult to move; one solution is opening the oil filler door
to allow air out. Secondly higher "melt point" cables are available from (1)
California Push Pull (2) Aircraft Spruce (special order with melt point
(Teflon) of 650 F). I have not tried McFarlane but they may also have Teflon
core.
Baffle sealing: the spark plug access hole for cylinders 5 & 6 needs to be
sealed with a small piece of aluminum tape each time access to the spark
plug is required. Curling a corner of the tape cover makes access easy for
the next time.
---
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Transition training can be accomplished, gratis, by a CFI who owns or has
built his 10; I have done several where a simple checkout flight (1-2 hours)
is required. The trick is to ask your/his insurance company to cover the
special flights. My insurance has approved these on a case by case basis. I
proposed a waiver to the feds but the response that "I could not sign a high
performance or complex endorsement for the trainee because the higher HP and
controllable propeller could be accomplished in a certified aircraft", was
not acceptable. Rather than respond emotionally I dropped the matter.
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Message 5
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About $5500 for the hardware (incl CA sales tax). I had about 40 hours in
labor. I had to mount a new transponder can and run a few wires to the
back of the 530. That was *almost* the worst part.
The worst part was I was anxious to test the whole thing out, so I went
flying and painted myself into the ADS-B landscape a week before the rebate
was finalized. That made me ineligible. Doh!
--Dave
On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 4:59 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com>
wrote:
>
> What was the total cost of this upgrade?
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 19, 2016, at 12:30 AM, David Saylor <saylor.dave@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > We recently did some avionics upgrades to add ADS-B functions and a few
> other bells and whistles.
> >
> > I installed a Garmin GTX345 and a Flightstream 210. The shop I bought it
> from helped me configure the new goodies once it was fired up.
> >
> > It works very well. We have ADS-B traffic and weather displayed on a
> 530. The transponder and Flightstream each bluetooth to Foreflight so we
> have the ADS-B products there as well.
> >
> > One cool thing the Flightstream does is to transfer the flight plan back
> and forth--change it on the 530 or the iPad and it's just a few clicks to
> update the other. It's even relatively intuitive.
> >
> > The wiring was a pain but now that it's done I'm glad we did the upgrade.
> >
> > --Dave
> >
> > Oh and I have a 327 for sale...
>
>
Message 6
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Actually when I was talking to California Push-Pull earlier
this year they said the difference is in the outer sheath
only. Maybe they mis-spoke at the time, but the core itself
is the same from what I understand. The outer sheath on
the black/grey ones is higher temp.
Tim
On 10/19/2016 8:09 AM, David wrote:
> Two things struck a remembrance for me. The control cables from Vans
> seem to be of lower quality; I believe the cable cores are made of a
> material with a lower melt point. When your engine is shutdown, the
> temperature under the cowl rises very rapidly before cooling; the cores
> partially melt and become sticky or difficult to move; one solution is
> opening the oil filler door to allow air out. Secondly higher melt
> point cables are available from (1) California Push Pull (2) Aircraft
> Spruce (special order with melt point (Teflon) of 650 F). I have not
> tried McFarlane but they may also have Teflon core.
>
>
> Baffle sealing: the spark plug access hole for cylinders 5 & 6 needs to
> be sealed with a small piece of aluminum tape each time access to the
> spark plug is required. Curling a corner of the tape cover makes access
> easy for the next time.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Instead of ordering cables with 2" throw, order 2-1/8". I ended up making it work
with the 2" ones but a bit longer would have been perfect.
Also like Tim, i put a firesleeve over them, and wrapped them in a reflective aluminized
jacket. I don't care what they are made of, they are not going to melt
anymore. It's really nice to have smooth controls again.
Lenny
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461460#461460
Message 8
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The standard baffle kit from Vans should have included some back to back washers,
nuts and bolts, to seal the access holes for the back two plugs.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461461#461461
Message 9
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FWIW I went with the NAVWORX ADS600-EXP, total cost of $1471 including the w
iring harness. To be honest I have very mixed feelings about their customer
service, more recently was much better. Installation took me about five hou
rs connecting to the GRT EFIS and Garmin 327.
My timing was valid for the FAA rebate, but the experimental version is not e
ligible at all, only genuine TSOd models count.
I just had my first cross country flight with it, and the traffic display
on my iPad was dead on. I switched to WingX pro because ForeFlight only wo
rks with the Garman products.
Marcus
> On Oct 19, 2016, at 9:18 AM, David Saylor <saylor.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> About $5500 for the hardware (incl CA sales tax). I had about 40 hours in
labor. I had to mount a new transponder can and run a few wires to the bac
k of the 530. That was *almost* the worst part.
>
> The worst part was I was anxious to test the whole thing out, so I went fl
ying and painted myself into the ADS-B landscape a week before the rebate wa
s finalized. That made me ineligible. Doh!
>
> --Dave
>
>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 4:59 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> wr
ote:
>>
>> What was the total cost of this upgrade?
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>> jesse@saintaviation.com
>> C: 352-427-0285
>> F: 815-377-3694
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Oct 19, 2016, at 12:30 AM, David Saylor <saylor.dave@gmail.com> wrot
e:
>> >
>> > We recently did some avionics upgrades to add ADS-B functions and a few
other bells and whistles.
>> >
>> > I installed a Garmin GTX345 and a Flightstream 210. The shop I bought i
t from helped me configure the new goodies once it was fired up.
>> >
>> > It works very well. We have ADS-B traffic and weather displayed on a 5
30. The transponder and Flightstream each bluetooth to Foreflight so we hav
e the ADS-B products there as well.
>> >
>> > One cool thing the Flightstream does is to transfer the flight plan bac
k and forth--change it on the 530 or the iPad and it's just a few clicks to u
pdate the other. It's even relatively intuitive.
>> >
>> > The wiring was a pain but now that it's done I'm glad we did the upgrad
e.
>> >
>> > --Dave
>> >
>> > Oh and I have a 327 for sale...
>>
>>
>>
>> =========================
>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?RV10-List
>> =========================
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> =========================
>> WIKI -
>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> =========================
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
>> =========================
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 10
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The key word, as far as the FAA is concerned, is "gratis". Most of the FAR prohibitions
are "...may not, for compensation or hire,...". So as long as there is
no compensation for yourself or the airplane, you're okay with the FAA. Now,
dealing with your insurance company is another matter. Some will ammend your
coverage to allow instruction, on a case by case basis, as you have indicated.
But some will not. My current insurer will not. Mostly, they didn't want the
paperwork cost and hassle. And their rates reflect that cost savings.
The FAA will issue you a Letter of Deviation Authority (LODA), allowing you to
give instruction for hire in your EAB airplane. But it will be restricted to transition
training only. As you indicated, anything that can be done in a certified
aircraft (Flight Review, High Performance endorsements, etc) are explicitly
not allowed. Even though in the course of transition training you might accomplish
all tasks required for a Flight Review you may not sign it off. I agree
this is a harsh interpretation.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461463#461463
Message 11
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One piece of this interests me.
Bob, maybe you know the answer.
Suppose my daughter does her private training in my RV14 and RV10. She flies them
both with me now and can complete full flights without me touching anything.
What does an instructor do about the high performance sign off? Can they
sign you off in YOUR RV, even though its experimental? It would suck to have
to have her go fly a 182 that is a completely different animal just to get HP
signed off when she's all done. The RV14 is 210HP and the -10 you already know.
Tim
> On Oct 19, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>
>
> The key word, as far as the FAA is concerned, is "gratis". Most of the FAR prohibitions
are "...may not, for compensation or hire,...". So as long as there
is no compensation for yourself or the airplane, you're okay with the FAA. Now,
dealing with your insurance company is another matter. Some will ammend your
coverage to allow instruction, on a case by case basis, as you have indicated.
But some will not. My current insurer will not. Mostly, they didn't want the
paperwork cost and hassle. And their rates reflect that cost savings.
> The FAA will issue you a Letter of Deviation Authority (LODA), allowing you to
give instruction for hire in your EAB airplane. But it will be restricted to
transition training only. As you indicated, anything that can be done in a certified
aircraft (Flight Review, High Performance endorsements, etc) are explicitly
not allowed. Even though in the course of transition training you might
accomplish all tasks required for a Flight Review you may not sign it off. I agree
this is a harsh interpretation.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461463#461463
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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The FAA will not let you utilize an experimental aircraft for hire.
There's no prohibition against doing any sort of training in any
experimental aircraft (including all signoffs), so as long as you're not
also offering the aircraft for hire. You can hire an instructor to fly in
your aircraft for any training, and an instructor can provide any sort of
training (including all signoffs) in his/her own aircraft as long as
(s)he's doing so without compensation.
Now, Insurance is a totally different question.
On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
> One piece of this interests me.
> Bob, maybe you know the answer.
>
> Suppose my daughter does her private training in my RV14 and RV10. She
> flies them both with me now and can complete full flights without me
> touching anything. What does an instructor do about the high performance
> sign off? Can they sign you off in YOUR RV, even though its experimental?
> It would suck to have to have her go fly a 182 that is a completely
> different animal just to get HP signed off when she's all done. The RV14
> is 210HP and the -10 you already know.
> Tim
>
>
> > On Oct 19, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
> > The key word, as far as the FAA is concerned, is "gratis". Most of the
> FAR prohibitions are "...may not, for compensation or hire,...". So as long
> as there is no compensation for yourself or the airplane, you're okay with
> the FAA. Now, dealing with your insurance company is another matter. Some
> will ammend your coverage to allow instruction, on a case by case basis, as
> you have indicated. But some will not. My current insurer will not. Mostly,
> they didn't want the paperwork cost and hassle. And their rates reflect
> that cost savings.
> > The FAA will issue you a Letter of Deviation Authority (LODA), allowing
> you to give instruction for hire in your EAB airplane. But it will be
> restricted to transition training only. As you indicated, anything that can
> be done in a certified aircraft (Flight Review, High Performance
> endorsements, etc) are explicitly not allowed. Even though in the course of
> transition training you might accomplish all tasks required for a Flight
> Review you may not sign it off. I agree this is a harsh interpretation.
> >
> > --------
> > Bob Turner
> > RV-10 QB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461463#461463
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 13
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Agree with Bob Turner. My insurance company will not allow instruction on a case-by-case
basis, either. Buying a years worth of insurance for a handful of transition
training customers a year simply doesn't work financially. One minor
thing in Bob's post is the "no compensation for yourself or the airplane" statement.
I believe a CFI is allowed to accept compensation, as a CFI, just not
allowed to accept compensation for the airplane unless you have the LODA. I have
heard of CFI RV owners who simply charged a very high rate for their service
as a CFI, and included the use of the airplane at no charge. I imagine if there
was an accident or incident, the FAA might take a dim view of this, not to
mention your insurance company. Restrictions on providing anything other than
transition training, ie. Flight Review, Instrument Competency Check, High Performance
Endorsement, etc., are clearly not permitted in the LODA. Does not make
sense to me either, but that's the way it is.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461466#461466
Message 14
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Coop,
Log into the ap with your iPad and set the port to 4000 and it will work wit
h ForeFlight.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
352-427-0285
jesse@saintaviation.com
Sent from my iPad
> On Oct 19, 2016, at 1:12 PM, Marcus Cooper <cooprv7@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> FWIW I went with the NAVWORX ADS600-EXP, total cost of $1471 including the
wiring harness. To be honest I have very mixed feelings about their custom
er service, more recently was much better. Installation took me about five h
ours connecting to the GRT EFIS and Garmin 327.
> My timing was valid for the FAA rebate, but the experimental version is no
t eligible at all, only genuine TSOd models count.
> I just had my first cross country flight with it, and the traffic displ
ay on my iPad was dead on. I switched to WingX pro because ForeFlight only w
orks with the Garman products.
>
> Marcus
>
>> On Oct 19, 2016, at 9:18 AM, David Saylor <saylor.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> About $5500 for the hardware (incl CA sales tax). I had about 40 hours i
n labor. I had to mount a new transponder can and run a few wires to the ba
ck of the 530. That was *almost* the worst part.
>>
>> The worst part was I was anxious to test the whole thing out, so I went f
lying and painted myself into the ADS-B landscape a week before the rebate w
as finalized. That made me ineligible. Doh!
>>
>> --Dave
>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 4:59 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> w
rote:
>>>
>>> What was the total cost of this upgrade?
>>>
>>> Jesse Saint
>>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>>> jesse@saintaviation.com
>>> C: 352-427-0285
>>> F: 815-377-3694
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> > On Oct 19, 2016, at 12:30 AM, David Saylor <saylor.dave@gmail.com> wro
te:
>>> >
>>> > We recently did some avionics upgrades to add ADS-B functions and a fe
w other bells and whistles.
>>> >
>>> > I installed a Garmin GTX345 and a Flightstream 210. The shop I bought i
t from helped me configure the new goodies once it was fired up.
>>> >
>>> > It works very well. We have ADS-B traffic and weather displayed on a 5
30. The transponder and Flightstream each bluetooth to Foreflight so we hav
e the ADS-B products there as well.
>>> >
>>> > One cool thing the Flightstream does is to transfer the flight plan ba
ck and forth--change it on the 530 or the iPad and it's just a few clicks to
update the other. It's even relatively intuitive.
>>> >
>>> > The wiring was a pain but now that it's done I'm glad we did the upgra
de.
>>> >
>>> > --Dave
>>> >
>>> > Oh and I have a 327 for sale...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ========================
===========
>>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?RV10-List
>>> ========================
===========
>>> FORUMS -
>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ========================
===========
>>> WIKI -
>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>>> ========================
===========
>>> b Site -
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on
>>> ========================
===========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
Message 15
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Thanks! I'll give it a try when it's time to renew.
Do not archive
> On Oct 19, 2016, at 2:44 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> wrote:
>
> Coop,
>
> Log into the ap with your iPad and set the port to 4000 and it will work w
ith ForeFlight.
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> 352-427-0285
> jesse@saintaviation.com
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Oct 19, 2016, at 1:12 PM, Marcus Cooper <cooprv7@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> FWIW I went with the NAVWORX ADS600-EXP, total cost of $1471 including th
e wiring harness. To be honest I have very mixed feelings about their custo
mer service, more recently was much better. Installation took me about five h
ours connecting to the GRT EFIS and Garmin 327.
>> My timing was valid for the FAA rebate, but the experimental version is n
ot eligible at all, only genuine TSOd models count.
>> I just had my first cross country flight with it, and the traffic disp
lay on my iPad was dead on. I switched to WingX pro because ForeFlight only
works with the Garman products.
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>>> On Oct 19, 2016, at 9:18 AM, David Saylor <saylor.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> About $5500 for the hardware (incl CA sales tax). I had about 40 hours i
n labor. I had to mount a new transponder can and run a few wires to the ba
ck of the 530. That was *almost* the worst part.
>>>
>>> The worst part was I was anxious to test the whole thing out, so I went f
lying and painted myself into the ADS-B landscape a week before the rebate w
as finalized. That made me ineligible. Doh!
>>>
>>> --Dave
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 4:59 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> w
rote:
>>>>
>>>> What was the total cost of this upgrade?
>>>>
>>>> Jesse Saint
>>>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>>>> jesse@saintaviation.com
>>>> C: 352-427-0285
>>>> F: 815-377-3694
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> > On Oct 19, 2016, at 12:30 AM, David Saylor <saylor.dave@gmail.com> wr
ote:
>>>> >
>>>> > We recently did some avionics upgrades to add ADS-B functions and a f
ew other bells and whistles.
>>>> >
>>>> > I installed a Garmin GTX345 and a Flightstream 210. The shop I bought
it from helped me configure the new goodies once it was fired up.
>>>> >
>>>> > It works very well. We have ADS-B traffic and weather displayed on a
530. The transponder and Flightstream each bluetooth to Foreflight so we h
ave the ADS-B products there as well.
>>>> >
>>>> > One cool thing the Flightstream does is to transfer the flight plan b
ack and forth--change it on the 530 or the iPad and it's just a few clicks t
o update the other. It's even relatively intuitive.
>>>> >
>>>> > The wiring was a pain but now that it's done I'm glad we did the upgr
ade.
>>>> >
>>>> > --Dave
>>>> >
>>>> > Oh and I have a 327 for sale...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ========================
===========
>>>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Na
vigator?RV10-List
>>>> ========================
===========
>>>> FORUMS -
>>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>> ========================
===========
>>>> WIKI -
>>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>>>> ========================
===========
>>>> b Site -
>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
>>>> ========================
===========
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
Message 16
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Tim Olson wrote:
> One piece of this interests me.
> Bob, maybe you know the answer.
>
> Suppose my daughter does her private training in my RV14 and RV10. She flies
them both with me now and can complete full flights without me touching anything.
What does an instructor do about the high performance sign off? Can they
sign you off in YOUR RV, even though its experimental? It would suck to have
to have her go fly a 182 that is a completely different animal just to get HP
signed off when she's all done. The RV14 is 210HP and the -10 you already know.
> Tim
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 19, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > The key word, as far as the FAA is concerned, is "gratis". Most of the FAR
prohibitions are "...may not, for compensation or hire,...". So as long as there
is no compensation for yourself or the airplane, you're okay with the FAA.
Now, dealing with your insurance company is another matter. Some will ammend
your coverage to allow instruction, on a case by case basis, as you have indicated.
But some will not. My current insurer will not. Mostly, they didn't want
the paperwork cost and hassle. And their rates reflect that cost savings.
> > The FAA will issue you a Letter of Deviation Authority (LODA), allowing you
to give instruction for hire in your EAB airplane. But it will be restricted
to transition training only. As you indicated, anything that can be done in a
certified aircraft (Flight Review, High Performance endorsements, etc) are explicitly
not allowed. Even though in the course of transition training you might
accomplish all tasks required for a Flight Review you may not sign it off.
I agree this is a harsh interpretation.
> >
> > --------
> > Bob Turner
> > RV-10 QB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461463#461463
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Tim, I checked in to finishing Mary's Private in our RV-10 a few years ago. It
was doable from an insurance perspective, but the cost was going to be huge. We
determined that it made more sense to get her finished in a 172, since she had
already soloed in one, and then transition her to the -10 once she had a license.
The high cost of insurance was based on having a student pilot solo the
RV-10. I am pretty sure if a CFI is giving primary instruction in a privately
owned RV-10, where there is no charge for the airplane involved, the CFI would
be free to put the endorsement for High Performance in the student pilots logbook.
The prohibition we have been talking about is only for holders of the LODA
that are providing transition training in their aircraft and charging for
the use of the aircraft.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461470#461470
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Dave - Yes, I should have made clear that I meant my reply to be to the previous
post, where the CFI provides the EAB airplane. FAR 91.319 is pretty clear -
but can always be argued, I guess - that EAB aircraft cannot be used for compensation
or hire. If a person is getting paid for flight instruction in an EAB
aircraft that he provided "for free", then the plane is in fact being used for
compensation - it's furthering his flight instruction business. The FAA, I'm
sure, takes a dim view of this sham. As would the insurance company.
But if someone else provides the airplane for no compensation - either because
he is an owner, or is a really good friend, or as in Tim, a parent who does not
charge his daughter- then there are no FAR restrictions on paying a cfi in that
airplane, nor on the type of instruction, sign-offs, etc.
Tim - As others have said, there are no restrictions on paying a cfi to give any
type of instruction in your airplane(s), assuming you do not charge your daughter
for its use. Note that when it comes to the private flight test, the FAA
allows its designated examiners to decline flying in EAB aircraft, at their option.
Some will, some won't.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461471#461471
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That's what I was thinking as well, Berck.
If you are in YOUR airplane, you can hire an instructor to teach
you and to sign you off for anything. Because you are the
airplane owner. When the instructor or someone else owns
the airplane then things change a lot.
Regarding the insurance for training in the RV, the only
thing I see as a problem is that the instructors will
either have to meet the open pilot qualifications, or
be named insured. In my opinion I'd rather have them
named insured either way. This may require them to get
some time in the RV first. In my RV14, you'd be
required to have 25 hours in an RV, plus I think it was
500 hours total time. So I may have to fly with the
instructor for a few hours first to get them RV Time.
Tim
On 10/19/2016 1:20 PM, Berck E. Nash wrote:
> The FAA will not let you utilize an experimental aircraft for hire.
> There's no prohibition against doing any sort of training in any
> experimental aircraft (including all signoffs), so as long as you're not
> also offering the aircraft for hire. You can hire an instructor to fly
> in your aircraft for any training, and an instructor can provide any
> sort of training (including all signoffs) in his/her own aircraft as
> long as (s)he's doing so without compensation.
>
> Now, Insurance is a totally different question.
>
Message 19
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Thanks! I'll give it a try when it's time to renew.
Do not archive
On Oct 19, 2016, at 2:44 PM, Jesse Saint wrote:
Of course, by then you may prefer WingX!
Seriously, they are both good programs. It just comes down to personal likes/dislikes.
I chose WingX even when I had to pay for it.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461473#461473
Message 20
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Thanks David,
Yeah, I originally built the RV-14 partially with the intent to have a
lower hull value plane to put my daughters on for training.
It sounds like I'll pay a higher premium for sure, but it doesn't
sound like it's going to add much for me anymore, considering
I just added Andrea on both planes this summer. They indicated
at the time that adding the daughter won't add much more additional
now. My biggest issue is probably going to be getting the
instructor enough RV time to meet the insurance requirements,
unless they allow me to cut it to 5 hours or something by
being named insured.
I'm glad that I no longer need transition training though,
considering the apparent market situation these days for it.
And I may as well add the reply to Bob's recent post
too....thanks Bob. Yeah, that's my final headache for
2018...finding a designated examiner who will do the
checkride in an EAB. I'll just have to find one that will
be willing. Worst case, the poor kid has to spend some time
in a 150. That would suck, given how much nicer these planes
are...and, she can fly it wonderfully now. 16 in May so
no solo until then...but by that time, she'll even be
doing her own aerobatics and spins.
Tim
>
> Tim, I checked in to finishing Mary's Private in our RV-10 a few
> years ago. It was doable from an insurance perspective, but the cost
> was going to be huge. We determined that it made more sense to get
> her finished in a 172, since she had already soloed in one, and then
> transition her to the -10 once she had a license. The high cost of
> insurance was based on having a student pilot solo the RV-10. I am
> pretty sure if a CFI is giving primary instruction in a privately
> owned RV-10, where there is no charge for the airplane involved, the
> CFI would be free to put the endorsement for High Performance in the
> student pilots logbook. The prohibition we have been talking about is
> only for holders of the LODA that are providing transition training
> in their aircraft and charging for the use of the aircraft.
>
> -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 New Smyrna Beach, FL
>
>
Message 21
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My CFI rules knowledge are a little foggy here in the Mediterranean, but take a
look at the rules for complex sign off.
Doesnt say a word about certified or not.horsepower, prop and/or retract gear.
> On Oct 19, 2016, at 9:07 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
>
>
> One piece of this interests me.
> Bob, maybe you know the answer.
>
> Suppose my daughter does her private training in my RV14 and RV10. She flies
them both with me now and can complete full flights without me touching anything.
What does an instructor do about the high performance sign off? Can they
sign you off in YOUR RV, even though its experimental? It would suck to have
to have her go fly a 182 that is a completely different animal just to get HP
signed off when she's all done. The RV14 is 210HP and the -10 you already know.
> Tim
>
>
>
>> On Oct 19, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>> The key word, as far as the FAA is concerned, is "gratis". Most of the FAR prohibitions
are "...may not, for compensation or hire,...". So as long as there
is no compensation for yourself or the airplane, you're okay with the FAA. Now,
dealing with your insurance company is another matter. Some will ammend your
coverage to allow instruction, on a case by case basis, as you have indicated.
But some will not. My current insurer will not. Mostly, they didn't want the
paperwork cost and hassle. And their rates reflect that cost savings.
>> The FAA will issue you a Letter of Deviation Authority (LODA), allowing you
to give instruction for hire in your EAB airplane. But it will be restricted to
transition training only. As you indicated, anything that can be done in a certified
aircraft (Flight Review, High Performance endorsements, etc) are explicitly
not allowed. Even though in the course of transition training you might
accomplish all tasks required for a Flight Review you may not sign it off. I
agree this is a harsh interpretation.
>>
>> --------
>> Bob Turner
>> RV-10 QB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461463#461463
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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Tim,
As David said, the real insurance cost is likely not to be for a cfi; it will be
to insure your daughter for solo flight.
BTW, no person with any assets to lose would, if in his right mind, fly under an
open pilot clause. He has no protection.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461475#461475
Message 23
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Regarding that rebate, I read some info that was in one of the
weekly emails last week.
Turns out that the $500 rebate is taxable, and there are all
sorts of strings attached...including a fairly specific
flight test that you have to do, where you fly a specific
flight profile in specific type of airspace. The tax
you pay on the rebate cuts its value quite a bit...but then
if you're forced to fly that specific flight profile for
testing, that will cost you time and fuel as well.
So the value of the rebate is at best, half of the $500
that they give you. For that little bit of money I really
don't think the hassle of even dealing with the FAA is worth
it. Your cost of $1471 wasn't too bad. I paid more by
being an early adopter.
The guts of your -EXP model aren't any different than the
TSO'd model either, so you'll be in good shape.
Oh, and regarding WingX....
I agree with Bob. I find it great to use in the cockpit.
Yes, I do like Foreflight for filing the plans and preflight
weather planning, but after that I'm very happy with WingX.
And just because I'm a bit nuts, I have:
A Foreflight Subscription
A 3-year WingX subscription
1 lifetime FlyQ subscription
An 18-moth Aerovie subscription
One thing people don't talk about much is the subscription
model. I have 2 pilots now and soon enough to be 3 in my
family. Foreflight limits you to 1 iphone, 1 ipad, and 1
backup ipad. This sucks totally...I can't even have
my own wife and I both have foreflight on our iphone. Yes,
they would charge me another $75-100 for a subscription for
her, and then for my Daughter too. It's a royal screwjob
for families like me.
With WingX, FlyQ, and Aerovie, my subscription covers
all of the devices on my family's iTunes account, so we
can all have the apps. FlyQ doesn't have an EFB for the
iphone but they have a mush less nice companion app.
Aerovie and WingX both work on both platforms, including
with my iLevil 3 AW AHRS.
Aerovie is my hopeful app for the future for preflight weather
briefing. It has some weather planning features that the
others don't have, including skewTlog charts and
overlay prog charts. Seems to be very nice. If they refine
the app a bit, I won't subscribe to foreflight again
at all.
But of all of those, right now, WingX would be the hardest
for me to let go of.
Tim
On 10/19/2016 12:12 PM, Marcus Cooper wrote:
> FWIW I went with the NAVWORX ADS600-EXP, total cost of $1471 including
> the wiring harness. To be honest I have very mixed feelings about their
> customer service, more recently was much better. Installation took me
> about five hours connecting to the GRT EFIS and Garmin 327.
> My timing was valid for the FAA rebate, but the experimental version is
> not eligible at all, only genuine TSOd models count.
> I just had my first cross country flight with it, and the traffic
> display on my iPad was dead on. I switched to WingX pro because
> ForeFlight only works with the Garman products.
>
> Marcus
>
Message 24
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gengrumpy wrote:
> My CFI rules knowledge are a little foggy here in the Mediterranean, but take
a look at the rules for complex sign off.
>
> Doesnt say a word about certified or not.horsepower, prop and/or retract gear.
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
The thread became 'mixed topics'. The issue was that cfi's instructing in their
own planes, for compensation under an FAA issued LODA, are not allowed to do
these sign offs. If instructing for hire in the 'student's' airplane there are
no issues.
BTW, "complex" = CS prop, flaps, retractable landing gear. Does not apply to RVs.
"high performance" = over 200 HP. Does apply to RV-10 and -14.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461479#461479
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You can't get a better overall summary than that, but keep in mind that not everybody
needs as many devices as Tim's family. I use the Foreflight Logbook now
since LogTen went to subscription-based. All of my eggs are in the Foreflight
basket, and I am very happy with it all around for preflight and inflight.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 19, 2016, at 4:08 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
>
>
> Regarding that rebate, I read some info that was in one of the
> weekly emails last week.
>
> Turns out that the $500 rebate is taxable, and there are all
> sorts of strings attached...including a fairly specific
> flight test that you have to do, where you fly a specific
> flight profile in specific type of airspace. The tax
> you pay on the rebate cuts its value quite a bit...but then
> if you're forced to fly that specific flight profile for
> testing, that will cost you time and fuel as well.
> So the value of the rebate is at best, half of the $500
> that they give you. For that little bit of money I really
> don't think the hassle of even dealing with the FAA is worth
> it. Your cost of $1471 wasn't too bad. I paid more by
> being an early adopter.
>
> The guts of your -EXP model aren't any different than the
> TSO'd model either, so you'll be in good shape.
>
>
> Oh, and regarding WingX....
>
> I agree with Bob. I find it great to use in the cockpit.
> Yes, I do like Foreflight for filing the plans and preflight
> weather planning, but after that I'm very happy with WingX.
>
> And just because I'm a bit nuts, I have:
>
> A Foreflight Subscription
> A 3-year WingX subscription
> 1 lifetime FlyQ subscription
> An 18-moth Aerovie subscription
>
> One thing people don't talk about much is the subscription
> model. I have 2 pilots now and soon enough to be 3 in my
> family. Foreflight limits you to 1 iphone, 1 ipad, and 1
> backup ipad. This sucks totally...I can't even have
> my own wife and I both have foreflight on our iphone. Yes,
> they would charge me another $75-100 for a subscription for
> her, and then for my Daughter too. It's a royal screwjob
> for families like me.
>
> With WingX, FlyQ, and Aerovie, my subscription covers
> all of the devices on my family's iTunes account, so we
> can all have the apps. FlyQ doesn't have an EFB for the
> iphone but they have a mush less nice companion app.
> Aerovie and WingX both work on both platforms, including
> with my iLevil 3 AW AHRS.
>
> Aerovie is my hopeful app for the future for preflight weather
> briefing. It has some weather planning features that the
> others don't have, including skewTlog charts and
> overlay prog charts. Seems to be very nice. If they refine
> the app a bit, I won't subscribe to foreflight again
> at all.
>
> But of all of those, right now, WingX would be the hardest
> for me to let go of.
>
> Tim
>
>
>> On 10/19/2016 12:12 PM, Marcus Cooper wrote:
>> FWIW I went with the NAVWORX ADS600-EXP, total cost of $1471 including
>> the wiring harness. To be honest I have very mixed feelings about their
>> customer service, more recently was much better. Installation took me
>> about five hours connecting to the GRT EFIS and Garmin 327.
>> My timing was valid for the FAA rebate, but the experimental version is
>> not eligible at all, only genuine TSOd models count.
>> I just had my first cross country flight with it, and the traffic
>> display on my iPad was dead on. I switched to WingX pro because
>> ForeFlight only works with the Garman products.
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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|
So just yesterday I started paying for my $1100 ADSB plan. Of course, I didn't
count any equipment I already own!! I will report in due time on the outcome.
Equipment already owned: GRT HX, Garmin 420W, Garmin GTX-327 transponder, Skyradar
D2 ADSB in.
Upgrades:
GRT HX software - free
Garmin 420W firmware - $100
Trig TT22 remote mode S-ES transponder with RS232to 422 adaptor - $2200
Gains:
$500 from FAA
sell 327 for about $700.
Net cost: $1100.
To be honest I lucked into the FAA rebate. I would have done this earlier but wanted
to wait until my transponder certification was nearly due anyway, to avoid
that extra cost.
Yes, I will need to go fly the FAA's 'profile', and it appears that must be done
in ADSB required airspace, so that means above 10,000' for me. But, in my acounting
scheme, flying is free!
As to the tax status of the $500, I believe this is a cya from the FAA. Certainly
Ford gives out tax free rebates all the time, although not from public funds.
Besides, I'm not in a high enough tax bracket to worry about it. And-part of
my strangeness-I derive some pleasure arguing with the IRS.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461481#461481
Message 27
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I'm getting old, so bear with me .....
I thought there were a limited number of rebates and that they were
going to pick the winners from the pool of applicants. I'm sure y'all
will let me know if I'm wrong ..... ;-)
Linn
On 10/19/2016 4:45 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
> So just yesterday I started paying for my $1100 ADSB plan. Of course, I didn't
count any equipment I already own!! I will report in due time on the outcome.
> Equipment already owned: GRT HX, Garmin 420W, Garmin GTX-327 transponder, Skyradar
D2 ADSB in.
> Upgrades:
> GRT HX software - free
> Garmin 420W firmware - $100
> Trig TT22 remote mode S-ES transponder with RS232to 422 adaptor - $2200
>
> Gains:
> $500 from FAA
> sell 327 for about $700.
>
> Net cost: $1100.
>
> To be honest I lucked into the FAA rebate. I would have done this earlier but
wanted to wait until my transponder certification was nearly due anyway, to avoid
that extra cost.
>
> Yes, I will need to go fly the FAA's 'profile', and it appears that must be done
in ADSB required airspace, so that means above 10,000' for me. But, in my
acounting scheme, flying is free!
>
> As to the tax status of the $500, I believe this is a cya from the FAA. Certainly
Ford gives out tax free rebates all the time, although not from public funds.
Besides, I'm not in a high enough tax bracket to worry about it. And-part
of my strangeness-I derive some pleasure arguing with the IRS.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461481#461481
>
>
Message 28
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flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com wrote:
> I'm getting old, so bear with me .....
> I thought there were a limited number of rebates and that they were
> going to pick the winners from the pool of applicants. I'm sure y'all
> will let me know if I'm wrong ..... ;-)
> Linn
>
> On 10/19/2016 4:45 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > So
> > GRT HX software - free
> > G
> >
>
There is no lottery. The money goes to the first people to apply. Rules:
You must not already have purchased the equipment.
You apply for the rebate first. The FAA gives you a number. Then you buy, install,
and flight test the equipment within a specified period of time, not to exceed
3 months, I think. The equipment you buy has to be on the 'approved' list
(non-TSO equipment is excluded). If you pass the test within the specified time
period, then you finish filling out the FAA paperwork, and they should send
you a check.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
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