Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:35 AM - Re: medical (johngoodman)
2. 07:41 AM - Re: Re: medical (Kelly McMullen)
3. 09:53 AM - Attitude Adjustment (kearney)
4. 10:34 AM - Re: Attitude Adjustment (Tim Olson)
5. 10:59 AM - Re: Attitude Adjustment (John Miller)
6. 12:27 PM - Re: Attitude Adjustment (Bob Turner)
7. 12:32 PM - Re: Attitude Adjustment (Bob Turner)
8. 12:40 PM - Re: medical (johngoodman)
9. 05:07 PM - Re: Attitude Adjustment (kearney)
10. 05:38 PM - Re: Re: Attitude Adjustment (Linn Walters)
11. 05:59 PM - Re: Re: Attitude Adjustment (Tim Olson)
12. 07:04 PM - Falcon pitot tube (David)
Message 1
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> What is so different between a Luscombe or a C-140, besides a few pounds?
One engine versus four, and the Jetstar is probably not flying anymore.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465038#465038
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Right. Try Cessna C-140, Continental C-85 engine. For LSA some Luscombes
qualify, the C-140 and C-150 do not.
-sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 6:33 AM, johngoodman <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
wrote:
>
>
> > What is so different between a Luscombe or a C-140, besides a few pounds?
>
>
> One engine versus four, and the Jetstar is probably not flying anymore.
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 Phase One complete in 2011
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465038#465038
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Attitude Adjustment |
Hi
While escaping to frosty north for some sunshine in Florida, I did a bit of training
on a ZLIN 242. Primarily it was unusual attitude recovery / spin training
and a taste of aerobatics.
It has been a long, long time since I had done spins and more importantly spin
recovery (24 years!). This got me to thinking, has anyone every spun the -10
and if so how did it handle.
In Canada, my -10 is placarded against aerobatics but I am not sure if that is
the case in the US. Based on what I have learned, simple maneuvers rolls / chandells
/ wing-overs etc. that don't involve G loading should be fine in the -10.
Has anyone proven this to be the case.
I am especially interested in the wing-overs as I fly near some pretty high granite.
I know of a couple of pilots who didn't make it due to taking the wrong
mountain pass and running out of sky.
Inquiring minds need to know....
Les
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465043#465043
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| Subject: | Re: Attitude Adjustment |
Hi Les,
I did all of the commercial maneuvers in the RV-10 for my
Commercial certificate. There's nothing in any of those
maneuvers that would stress the plane at all.
I have not, however, spun the plane. I did spin the RV-14,
but that is not at all the same.
Wingovers are very gentile so shouldn't be an issue, if you
do them right. Lets stress that again in an example...
I would normally say that rolls wouldn't be a big deal
if you do them correctly. Then I took someone who
hadn't rolled an RV out for a flight in my RV14 this
summer. I demonstrated and talked them thru a roll,
twice, and then let them try one.
Within a couple seconds of starting the maneuver,
we had performed a split-S, and were pointing straight
at the ground, with a higher airspeed than you would
enter a split-S with, because it was supposed to be
a roll. The slick RV built speed extremely rapidly,
and I, with a little shock, said I would take the
airplane, and started to pull out of the dive.
I pulled firmly up to 3.5, 3.6...3.8...4.0...4.1 G's,
and then held it and recovered to level.
Later on the ground I pondered what airspeed we
had hit. He said he thought he saw 186kts.
We pulled up the engine logs and found indeed we did
hit 186kts, which corrected for altitude would give
about 200kts..right at Vne. I was glad I had
recovered as quickly as I did, and was glad it was
in the RV-14 with it's 6G design.
So whereas I used to be of the opinion that a roll was
not a huge deal, I learned quickly that there's a
big difference between doing a proper roll and an
improper one. If someone was skilled in the maneuvers
already, sure, it will probably be no big deal...and if
you request aerobatic operating lims, you could probably
sign it off for your RV-10 (in the US).
But, I sure wouldn't want someone to take an RV-10 and
decide to roll it without already being current and
familiar with the maneuvers.
I'm sure the guy who was with me will read this, and
we'll have some fun in the RV-14 again some day.
We all learn, and that day we both learned something.
It's now a good chuckle for us and a notch in the
experience belt. Just make sure that whatever you do
in a non-aerobatic category airplane you do with skill
and care and finesse and that it goes perfectly. The
recovery if done wrong, may not.
Tim
On 1/13/2017 11:52 AM, kearney wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> While escaping to frosty north for some sunshine in Florida, I did a
> bit of training on a ZLIN 242. Primarily it was unusual attitude
> recovery / spin training and a taste of aerobatics.
>
> It has been a long, long time since I had done spins and more
> importantly spin recovery (24 years!). This got me to thinking, has
> anyone every spun the -10 and if so how did it handle.
>
> In Canada, my -10 is placarded against aerobatics but I am not sure
> if that is the case in the US. Based on what I have learned, simple
> maneuvers rolls / chandells / wing-overs etc. that don't involve G
> loading should be fine in the -10. Has anyone proven this to be the
> case.
>
> I am especially interested in the wing-overs as I fly near some
> pretty high granite. I know of a couple of pilots who didn't make it
> due to taking the wrong mountain pass and running out of sky.
>
> Inquiring minds need to know....
>
> Les
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Attitude Adjustment |
In the take it for what its worth arena, I highly discourage any RV10 pilot from
trying to roll the RV10, either barrel roll or aileron roll.
Early on in my test profiles, I did 2 barrel rolls as part of my test card work
(former AF pilot with lots of test experience). In both cases, you lose roll
authority fairly quickly as the speed bleeds off, so roll rate diminishes quite
quickly, leaving you close to the 90 degree point is the airspeed falling off
very quickly, resulting in a quick nose fall to well below the horizon before
any speed builds back up, and without the speed, your roll authority is very
slow.you can quickly end up nose 60-70 degrees low, in a bank with airspeed
starting to increase. Unless you are an accomplished aerobatic pilot, do not
try to roll the RV10. Even an old Champ rolls better than the RV10
If you do find yourself in the situation that Tim describes (or mine), remember
to do this (steps in order!):
1. Power to idle
2. Roll wings level
3. Pull to the horizon
The RV10 is not built for aerobatics! Wingovers, lazy 8s - yes. Rolls, Loops
or Immelmans - NO!
grumpy
> On Jan 13, 2017, at 12:34 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Les,
>
> I did all of the commercial maneuvers in the RV-10 for my
> Commercial certificate. There's nothing in any of those
> maneuvers that would stress the plane at all.
>
> I have not, however, spun the plane. I did spin the RV-14,
> but that is not at all the same.
>
> Wingovers are very gentile so shouldn't be an issue, if you
> do them right. Lets stress that again in an example...
>
> I would normally say that rolls wouldn't be a big deal
> if you do them correctly. Then I took someone who
> hadn't rolled an RV out for a flight in my RV14 this
> summer. I demonstrated and talked them thru a roll,
> twice, and then let them try one.
>
> Within a couple seconds of starting the maneuver,
> we had performed a split-S, and were pointing straight
> at the ground, with a higher airspeed than you would
> enter a split-S with, because it was supposed to be
> a roll. The slick RV built speed extremely rapidly,
> and I, with a little shock, said I would take the
> airplane, and started to pull out of the dive.
> I pulled firmly up to 3.5, 3.6...3.8...4.0...4.1 G's,
> and then held it and recovered to level.
> Later on the ground I pondered what airspeed we
> had hit. He said he thought he saw 186kts.
> We pulled up the engine logs and found indeed we did
> hit 186kts, which corrected for altitude would give
> about 200kts..right at Vne. I was glad I had
> recovered as quickly as I did, and was glad it was
> in the RV-14 with it's 6G design.
>
> So whereas I used to be of the opinion that a roll was
> not a huge deal, I learned quickly that there's a
> big difference between doing a proper roll and an
> improper one. If someone was skilled in the maneuvers
> already, sure, it will probably be no big deal...and if
> you request aerobatic operating lims, you could probably
> sign it off for your RV-10 (in the US).
> But, I sure wouldn't want someone to take an RV-10 and
> decide to roll it without already being current and
> familiar with the maneuvers.
>
> I'm sure the guy who was with me will read this, and
> we'll have some fun in the RV-14 again some day.
> We all learn, and that day we both learned something.
> It's now a good chuckle for us and a notch in the
> experience belt. Just make sure that whatever you do
> in a non-aerobatic category airplane you do with skill
> and care and finesse and that it goes perfectly. The
> recovery if done wrong, may not.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 1/13/2017 11:52 AM, kearney wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> While escaping to frosty north for some sunshine in Florida, I did a
>> bit of training on a ZLIN 242. Primarily it was unusual attitude
>> recovery / spin training and a taste of aerobatics.
>>
>> It has been a long, long time since I had done spins and more
>> importantly spin recovery (24 years!). This got me to thinking, has
>> anyone every spun the -10 and if so how did it handle.
>>
>> In Canada, my -10 is placarded against aerobatics but I am not sure
>> if that is the case in the US. Based on what I have learned, simple
>> maneuvers rolls / chandells / wing-overs etc. that don't involve G
>> loading should be fine in the -10. Has anyone proven this to be the
>> case.
>>
>> I am especially interested in the wing-overs as I fly near some
>> pretty high granite. I know of a couple of pilots who didn't make it
>> due to taking the wrong mountain pass and running out of sky.
>>
>> Inquiring minds need to know....
>>
>> Les
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Attitude Adjustment |
Here in the US the legal answer is, "What do your operating limits say". My DAR
asked if I planned to do aerobatics (and if so he would re-write my phase one
requirements). I said "no", my op limits say no aerobatics.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465049#465049
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Attitude Adjustment |
To answer the original question, I believe Vans spin tested the original -10 prototype,
and it recovered okay after 3 turns. I do not know if they ever did a
fully developed spin.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465051#465051
Message 8
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> Right. Try Cessna C-140, Continental C-85 engine. For LSA some Luscombes qualify,
the C-140 and C-150 do not.
Ooops! Sorry about that - I'm used to thinking heavy metal....
--------
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465053#465053
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Attitude Adjustment |
Guys
Thanks for the info and perspective. I, for one, do not plan to attempt any acro
in a -10. Mine is placarded against acro and I am not qualified. If I get the
urge, I have access to an Acrosport II and an instructor.
It's good to know that it can recover from a spin. The ZLIN I was flying needed
cowl strakes so it could recover from spins. This got me wondering how the -10
would react.
I was surprised that rolls would be an issue - they seemed benign in the ZLIN but
of course that is a different airframe.
Cheers
Les
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465057#465057
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Attitude Adjustment |
When I was a baby pilot I learned basic aerobatics in a Grumman AA-1B.
There is only one requirement for survival from botched maneuvers, and
that's altitude. Tim's description of his passengers roll turning into
a split-S is a classic example of not enough entry airspeed and/or
excess power, and duplicated my first roll in the Grumman. I moved on
to an S-1 Pitts (my first experimental build) before I killed myself.
The Pitts makes a lousy cross-country airplane but does aerobatics quite
well. The -10 is a great cross country airplane but (IMHO) makes a
lousy aerobatic airplane. With a symmetrical airfoil it might perform
aerobatics quite well but would also kill it's cross country ability.
Les has already figured it out. If you want to do aerobatics, get a
plane designed for it. If you want to travel (like I will) use the -10.
Linn
On 1/13/2017 8:06 PM, kearney wrote:
>
> Guys
>
> Thanks for the info and perspective. I, for one, do not plan to attempt any acro
in a -10. Mine is placarded against acro and I am not qualified. If I get
the urge, I have access to an Acrosport II and an instructor.
>
> It's good to know that it can recover from a spin. The ZLIN I was flying needed
cowl strakes so it could recover from spins. This got me wondering how the
-10 would react.
>
> I was surprised that rolls would be an issue - they seemed benign in the ZLIN
but of course that is a different airframe.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465057#465057
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Attitude Adjustment |
Or if you only need 2 seats, the RV14 is reasonably aerobatic and good for X/c.
Not nearly a Pitts but can be fun.
Tim
> On Jan 13, 2017, at 7:35 PM, Linn Walters <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> When I was a baby pilot I learned basic aerobatics in a Grumman AA-1B. There
is only one requirement for survival from botched maneuvers, and that's altitude.
Tim's description of his passengers roll turning into a split-S is a classic
example of not enough entry airspeed and/or excess power, and duplicated
my first roll in the Grumman. I moved on to an S-1 Pitts (my first experimental
build) before I killed myself.
> The Pitts makes a lousy cross-country airplane but does aerobatics quite well.
The -10 is a great cross country airplane but (IMHO) makes a lousy aerobatic
airplane. With a symmetrical airfoil it might perform aerobatics quite well
but would also kill it's cross country ability. Les has already figured it out.
If you want to do aerobatics, get a plane designed for it. If you want to
travel (like I will) use the -10.
> Linn
>
>> On 1/13/2017 8:06 PM, kearney wrote:
>>
>> Guys
>>
>> Thanks for the info and perspective. I, for one, do not plan to attempt any
acro in a -10. Mine is placarded against acro and I am not qualified. If I get
the urge, I have access to an Acrosport II and an instructor.
>>
>> It's good to know that it can recover from a spin. The ZLIN I was flying needed
cowl strakes so it could recover from spins. This got me wondering how the
-10 would react.
>>
>> I was surprised that rolls would be an issue - they seemed benign in the ZLIN
but of course that is a different airframe.
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Les
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465057#465057
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Falcon pitot tube |
In many years of flying I have never encountered a pitot tube failure until
now. When I built the aircraft and made first flight in 2008, the Falcon
tube worked correctly. After 1100 hours it failed; the business end of the
tube actually broke the aluminum tube and an air leak occurred. I began to
suspect something amiss after observing almost constant tail wind
conditions on breakfast flights, both out and return. I had it checked by an
avionics tech and the main piece came off in his hand. The internal tube
through the heating element had severed. I thought of two possible reasons;
(1) 1100 hours of flight vibration or possibility the encounter with the
hangar door (the tube was not struck by anything). At any rate be cautious
about this since the high side airspeed (IAS) was indicating low by 15-25
knots and the low side was indicating low by 10-15 knots. Consider the high
speed descents (in the yellow arc) and you can easily exceed the TAS red
line without knowing it. Fortunately I descend at Va (125 KIAS) so an
airspeed error just puts me in the bottom of the yellow arc. BTW the Falcon
tubes are now manufactured in China with a two month lead time and no stock;
I opted using the Garmin GAP 26 which has both pitot and AOA lines and works
fine with a 14V system.
---
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