---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/21/17: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:49 AM - GPS Antenna (Vernon Franklin) 2. 09:14 AM - Re: GPS Antenna (Carl Froehlich) 3. 09:49 AM - Re: GPS Antenna (Bob-tcw) 4. 10:31 AM - Re: GPS Antenna (Lenny Iszak) 5. 10:34 AM - Re: GPS Antenna (rvdave) 6. 10:50 AM - Re: GPS Antenna () 7. 01:39 PM - Re: GPS Antenna (Bob Turner) 8. 02:21 PM - Re: GPS Antenna (Dan Charrois) 9. 09:04 PM - Re: Sky-Tec NL vs LS starter (rv10flyer) 10. 09:17 PM - Re: Re: Sky-Tec NL vs LS starter (Tim Olson) 11. 09:35 PM - Re: Fuel pressure problems continuing / possibly relocating the (rv10flyer) 12. 09:55 PM - Re: fuel flow at takeoff power (rv10flyer) 13. 10:55 PM - Re: Georgia: 5 Person RV-10 Probable Cause (rv10flyer) 14. 11:08 PM - Re: Falcon pitot tube (rv10flyer) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:25 AM PST US From: Vernon Franklin Subject: RV10-List: GPS Antenna I am afraid the antenna will not have a long life under the cowl due to heat. I am not opposed to it being on the glare shield, just would like it out of site if possible. Has anyone tried putting the GPS Antenna in the overhead console (I have Geoff's), between the doors? Will I get signal through the cabin top? -- Vernon Franklin ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:14:05 AM PST US From: "Carl Froehlich" Subject: RE: RV10-List: GPS Antenna GTN-650 and Dynon GPS antennas on the glare shield, one on each side. Work perfectly. I wrap the white GTN-650 antenna with some dark cloth so that it does not reflect on the glass. No reason for them to not work in an overhead console but I vetoed such a console as an unneeded waste of headroom. Others may have different opinions. I share your concern with GPS antennas mounted under the cowl. Carl From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon Franklin Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 11:48 AM Subject: RV10-List: GPS Antenna I am afraid the antenna will not have a long life under the cowl due to heat. I am not opposed to it being on the glare shield, just would like it out of site if possible. Has anyone tried putting the GPS Antenna in the overhead console (I have Geoff's), between the doors? Will I get signal through the cabin top? -- Vernon Franklin ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:49:04 AM PST US From: "Bob-tcw" Subject: Re: RV10-List: GPS Antenna I=99ve taken considerable data for under cowl temperatures through all phases of flight and shut-down with a data logger. For the upper portion of the low pressure side of the cowling on the RV-10 the temperature is about 10 C rise over ambient for all phases except for shut down. Upon shut down the temperature rises to about +40 C rise for about 8 minutes followed by about a cool down back to ambient. For electronic systems this is not much of a thermal burden. That said, when I built my =9310 I didn=99t have the data for under cowl temperatures so instead I investigated GPS signal strength with the antennas mounted under the cabin top and hidden by my overhead console. I have dual garmin 430 W navigators so I took data for satellite received signal strength with one antenna positioned in the cabin looking up through the cabin top and one antenna outside the aircraft with an unobstructed view of the sky. There was absolutely no difference between the two systems. They both had the same number of satellites received and at the same signal level. After five years of flying I=99m totally satisfied that those GPS hockey puck antennas work perfectly well mounted inside the cabin looking up through the fiberglass. Bob Newman N541RV www.tcwtech.com From: Vernon Franklin Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 11:47 AM Subject: RV10-List: GPS Antenna I am afraid the antenna will not have a long life under the cowl due to heat. I am not opposed to it being on the glare shield, just would like it out of site if possible. Has anyone tried putting the GPS Antenna in the overhead console (I have Geoff's), between the doors? Will I get signal through the cabin top? -- Vernon Franklin ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:31:13 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: GPS Antenna From: "Lenny Iszak" I logged similar temps under the cowling. Probably not an issue for antennas, but those that decide to install lithium batteries there take note of those numbers. My temps also went up to around the same numbers during runup after a few minutes of taxiing around. My glareshield is two-component foam between two thin layers of fiberglass wrapped in black ultraleather. I carved out the foam from the bottom and put my WxWorx XM antenna puck there. It's not visible at all and it works great. It would most likely work fine with a GPS antenna too. Lenny rnewman(at)tcwtech.com wrote: > Ive taken considerable data for under cowl temperatures through all phases of flight and shut-down with a data logger. For the upper portion of the low pressure side of the cowling on the RV-10 the temperature is about 10 C rise over ambient for all phases except for shut down. Upon shut down the temperature rises to about +40 C rise for about 8 minutes followed by about a cool down back to ambient. For electronic systems this is not much of a thermal burden. > That said, when I built my 10 I didnt have the data for under cowl temperatures so instead I investigated GPS signal strength with the antennas mounted under the cabin top and hidden by my overhead console. I have dual garmin 430 W navigators so I took data for satellite received signal strength with one antenna positioned in the cabin looking up through the cabin top and one antenna outside the aircraft with an unobstructed view of the sky. There was absolutely no difference between the two systems. They both had the same number of satellites received and at the same signal level. > After five years of flying Im totally satisfied that those GPS hockey puck antennas work perfectly well mounted inside the cabin looking up through the fiberglass. > > Bob Newman > N541RV > www.tcwtech.com (http://www.tcwtech.com) > > > From: Vernon Franklin (vernon.franklin@gmail.com) > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 11:47 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com (rv10-list@matronics.com) > Subject: GPS Antenna > > > > > I am afraid the antenna will not have a long life under the cowl due to heat. > > I am not opposed to it being on the glare shield, just would like it out of site if possible. > Has anyone tried putting the GPS Antenna in the overhead console (I have Geoff's), between the doors? Will I get signal through the cabin top? > > > -- > Vernon Franklin -------- Lenny N311LZ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466462#466462 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:34:41 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: GPS Antenna From: "rvdave" I have an under cowl gps antenna mounted on a bracket from engine mount to firewall on my rv6 with 550 hours and still going with no dropouts ever had. On the 10 I'm building I've put two gps antennae in the overhead one in each bay-- expecting similar results. -------- Dave Ford RV6 for sale RV10 building Cadillac, MI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466463#466463 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:50:30 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV10-List: GPS Antenna just getting around to installing my G3X system in RV10 - given your study where do you recommend installing? 1) Mounted under fiberglass canopy - i assume over pilot and copilots heads or 2) under engine cowling? My understanding is the typical installation is outside on roof of canopy near the front. Thx for feedback ---- Bob-tcw wrote: > Ive taken considerable data for under cowl temperatures through all phases of flight and shut-down with a data logger. For the upper portion of the low pressure side of the cowling on the RV-10 the temperature is about 10 C rise over ambient for all phases except for shut down. Upon shut down the temperature rises to about +40 C rise for about 8 minutes followed by about a cool down back to ambient. For electronic systems this is not much of a thermal burden. > That said, when I built my 10 I didnt have the data for under cowl temperatures so instead I investigated GPS signal strength with the antennas mounted under the cabin top and hidden by my overhead console. I have dual garmin 430 W navigators so I took data for satellite received signal strength with one antenna positioned in the cabin looking up through the cabin top and one antenna outside the aircraft with an unobstructed view of the sky. There was absolutely no difference between the two systems. They both had the same number of satellites received and at the same signal level. > After five years of flying Im totally satisfied that those GPS hockey puck antennas work perfectly well mounted inside the cabin looking up through the fiberglass. > > Bob Newman > N541RV > www.tcwtech.com > > From: Vernon Franklin > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 11:47 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: GPS Antenna > > I am afraid the antenna will not have a long life under the cowl due to heat. > > I am not opposed to it being on the glare shield, just would like it out of site if possible. > > > Has anyone tried putting the GPS Antenna in the overhead console (I have Geoff's), between the doors? Will I get signal through the cabin top? > > > -- > > Vernon Franklin ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:39:35 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: GPS Antenna From: "Bob Turner" The antenna for my 420W is external, on top of the tailcone, about 2 feet behind the baggage area bulkhead. Partly because, at the time, Garmin specified a certain minimum insertion loss (they had a mismatch in designed and actual antenna sensitivities after outsourcing the antenna). The loss could be introduced with an attenuator, or just a specified length of coax. Two things that have never been clear to me: (1) Do these antennas require a ground plane?, and (2) are they technically illegal for IFR use if not installed per the TSO'd documentation (which always shows them external)? -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466466#466466 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:21:21 PM PST US From: Dan Charrois Subject: Re: RV10-List: GPS Antenna > On 2017-Feb-21, at 9:47 AM, Vernon Franklin wrote: > > I am afraid the antenna will not have a long life under the cowl due to heat. > I am not opposed to it being on the glare shield, just would like it out of site if possible. > > Has anyone tried putting the GPS Antenna in the overhead console (I have Geoff's), between the doors? Will I get signal through the cabin top? I have two GPS antennas - one for a GTN 650 mounted externally above the cabin, and a backup "hockey puck" style antenna exactly where you mentioned (in the Aerosport Products console) that gets its signal through the cabin top fibreglass. Both work great - actually, the hockey puck antenna usually gets a signal quicker than the external GTN 650 antenna (though that's quite possibly because it isn't as critical as to how reliable a signal it gets, as long as it gets something within reason - the GTN 650 needs to have a reliable signal before it will even begin to deliver a position). If you have the overhead console anyway, as I do, I really can't see a reason not to put it there - it can't be seen, and at least in my case, works great. Dan --- Dan Charrois President, Syzygy Research & Technology Phone: 780-961-2213 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:31 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Sky-Tec NL vs LS starter From: "rv10flyer" I have a 925/680 in the back. Using the 925 with the LS starter, I measured 438 Amps and less than 9.5 V at starter. Changed to the NL last year due to having 4 years of the same intermittent starting difficulties. Starting amps dropped to 285 Amps and 11.1 V at starter. Much nicer. -------- Wayne G. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466485#466485 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:00 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Sky-Tec NL vs LS starter From: Tim Olson Very cool, a man with data! Thanks Wayne. My starters arrive tomorrow, and maybe if I'm lucky I'll have them in and working this weekend. Tim do not archive On 2/21/2017 11:03 PM, rv10flyer wrote: > > > I have a 925/680 in the back. Using the 925 with the LS starter, I > measured 438 Amps and less than 9.5 V at starter. Changed to the NL > last year due to having 4 years of the same intermittent starting > difficulties. Starting amps dropped to 285 Amps and 11.1 V at > starter. Much nicer. > > -------- Wayne G. > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:32 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel pressure problems continuing / possibly relocating the From: "rv10flyer" To check for any flow restrictions, you should see at least 42 gph if you unhook servo inlet line and run boost pump. -------- Wayne G. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466487#466487 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:42 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: fuel flow at takeoff power From: "rv10flyer" I am seeing 25-25.5 gph and 1240-1250 EGT's on takeoff from 663' elev. -------- Wayne G. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466488#466488 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:45 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Georgia: 5 Person RV-10 Probable Cause From: "rv10flyer" I fly and land near my aft CG limit all the time. It is sensitive, but easily controllable, even at night...IF you are sober. Their W&B gross wt calculation was 24 lbs under due to them figuring full tanks at 56 instead of 60 gallons. Not that it would have changed the outcome. The fuselage and engine are upside down, note oil cooler and step. Not much else recognizable. 3 DUI's and those 4 young people trusted him with their lives. Wow. -------- Wayne G. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466489#466489 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:08:41 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Falcon pitot tube From: "rv10flyer" I also have a Falcon from 2011. Will keep an eye on it. -------- Wayne G. 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