Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:15 AM - insurance (David)
2. 12:20 PM - A couple of questions (Vernon Franklin)
3. 12:27 PM - Re: A couple of questions (Tim Olson)
4. 12:31 PM - Re: A couple of questions (Linn Walters)
5. 12:47 PM - Re: A couple of questions (Rene)
6. 02:05 PM - Re: A couple of questions (Bob Condrey)
7. 02:07 PM - Re: A couple of questions (Bob Turner)
8. 02:19 PM - Re: A couple of questions (Berck E. Nash)
9. 03:16 PM - Re: A couple of questions (Jesse Saint)
Message 1
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I concur with Tim; I got the same advice from Shanna at Nation
Air/Gallagher. I am qualifying another builder for the open pilot warranty
on my aircraft. I named him last year for a small extra premium as I usually
make a one stop to KOSH out of Phoenix and the extra qualified pilot allowed
a little rest. My open pilot is 750TT and 25TT RV10. Effective April I
return to two named pilots.
BTW I don't recall whether I posted the Dos and Don't list on insurance
claims but will post it soon. My claim for a hangar door encounter because
of a failed brake has been settled and "one always learns more than one ever
wanted to know".
DLM
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Message 2
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| Subject: | A couple of questions |
1. Is there a crotch mount point for the front seat belts? Or are the
front seats only 4 point?
2. I am hearing from hangar neighbors that I need to create an LLC as the
registered manufacture. Not to put my name on as manufacture for liability
reasons. As well as sell the LLC with the plane, if I ever sell the plane.
Is this a pretty common thing for home builders to do? If so, any advice
on how to form the LLC and do things right with the FAA registration?
Thanks!
--
Vernon Franklin
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: A couple of questions |
Hi Vernon,
4-point only up front.
I know many people do the LLC thing. I didn't but some do, so I
wouldn't say it's un-common. I would bet it's less than 50%, but
it's not uncommon at all. I can't offer advice on that but others
who did it I'm sure will.
Tim
On 3/7/2017 2:19 PM, Vernon Franklin wrote:
> 1. Is there a crotch mount point for the front seat belts? Or are the
> front seats only 4 point?
>
> 2. I am hearing from hangar neighbors that I need to create an LLC as
> the registered manufacture. Not to put my name on as manufacture for
> liability reasons. As well as sell the LLC with the plane, if I ever
> sell the plane. Is this a pretty common thing for home builders to do?
> If so, any advice on how to form the LLC and do things right with the
> FAA registration?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Vernon Franklin
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: A couple of questions |
On 3/7/2017 3:19 PM, Vernon Franklin wrote:
> 1. Is there a crotch mount point for the front seat belts? Or are the
> front seats only 4 point?
Back seats only. I removed the tab for the crotch attach point. If you
do that, make sure your upholsterer knows not to put the 'notch' in the
front of the seat .... as Vans plans call for.
>
> 2. I am hearing from hangar neighbors that I need to create an LLC as
> the registered manufacture. Not to put my name on as manufacture for
> liability reasons. As well as sell the LLC with the plane, if I ever
> sell the plane. Is this a pretty common thing for home builders to
> do? If so, any advice on how to form the LLC and do things right with
> the FAA registration?
I believe that you will still be the builder but the LLC will be the
owner. I haven't got to that point yet.
Linn
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Vernon Franklin
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | A couple of questions |
I did the LLC thing after I built and certified the airplane.
I did it only as a liability shield ...... if that is possible. I also have my
hanger in another S corp. If it is a single owner LLC the IRS ignores you and
you have to file as a disregarded entity for tax purposes. But, you have to
be careful that you run it as a business or any hope of having any liability
protection goes out the window. But, just remember that I am not a lawyer and
just another fool who built an airplane in his garage and then flys in it.
In Utah it takes about 10 minutes to do it on line.
After several years of flying I took on a flying partner and the LLC became real
handy, but it meant monthly billing (the way we agreed to doing it) etc. I
have also used the LLC for other business and that is a long story.
BTW the partner thing was great, but Uncle Sam decided to move him and now I am
all alone.
Drop me a personal e-mail if you want to know more about what I am doing in this
area. Email address is Rene at Felker dot Com.
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: A couple of questions
Hi Vernon,
4-point only up front.
I know many people do the LLC thing. I didn't but some do, so I wouldn't say it's
un-common. I would bet it's less than 50%, but it's not uncommon at all.
I can't offer advice on that but others who did it I'm sure will.
Tim
On 3/7/2017 2:19 PM, Vernon Franklin wrote:
> 1. Is there a crotch mount point for the front seat belts? Or are the
> front seats only 4 point?
>
> 2. I am hearing from hangar neighbors that I need to create an LLC as
> the registered manufacture. Not to put my name on as manufacture for
> liability reasons. As well as sell the LLC with the plane, if I ever
> sell the plane. Is this a pretty common thing for home builders to do?
> If so, any advice on how to form the LLC and do things right with the
> FAA registration?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Vernon Franklin
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: A couple of questions |
Many do an LLC however it isn't much, if any shield from liability.
Remember, it's the builder that makes the "it's airworthy" initial logbook
entry. It's then whoever holds the repairman certificate or an A&P that
annually does the same thing. So while an LLC might be the owning entity,
it's an individual signing it off as airworthy. That said, having an LLC
as the owner might come in handy when selling the plane. You can just sell
the LLC and the plane continues to be owned by the same entity. Potential
tax advantages there because it won't trigger the recipient's state's tax
man to tax the airplane.
I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express nor am I an attorney so the above is
simply my opinion and worth what you paid for it.
Bob
On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 2:50 PM Rene <rene@felker.com> wrote:
>
> I did the LLC thing after I built and certified the airplane.
>
> I did it only as a liability shield ...... if that is possible. I also
> have my hanger in another S corp. If it is a single owner LLC the IRS
> ignores you and you have to file as a disregarded entity for tax purposes.
> But, you have to be careful that you run it as a business or any hope of
> having any liability protection goes out the window. But, just remember
> that I am not a lawyer and just another fool who built an airplane in his
> garage and then flys in it.
>
> In Utah it takes about 10 minutes to do it on line.
>
> After several years of flying I took on a flying partner and the LLC
> became real handy, but it meant monthly billing (the way we agreed to doing
> it) etc. I have also used the LLC for other business and that is a long
> story.
>
> BTW the partner thing was great, but Uncle Sam decided to move him and now
> I am all alone.
>
> Drop me a personal e-mail if you want to know more about what I am doing
> in this area. Email address is Rene at Felker dot Com.
>
>
> Rene'
> 801-721-6080
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 1:27 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: A couple of questions
>
>
> Hi Vernon,
>
> 4-point only up front.
>
> I know many people do the LLC thing. I didn't but some do, so I wouldn't
> say it's un-common. I would bet it's less than 50%, but it's not uncommon
> at all. I can't offer advice on that but others who did it I'm sure will.
> Tim
>
>
> On 3/7/2017 2:19 PM, Vernon Franklin wrote:
> > 1. Is there a crotch mount point for the front seat belts? Or are the
> > front seats only 4 point?
> >
> > 2. I am hearing from hangar neighbors that I need to create an LLC as
> > the registered manufacture. Not to put my name on as manufacture for
> > liability reasons. As well as sell the LLC with the plane, if I ever
> > sell the plane. Is this a pretty common thing for home builders to do?
> > If so, any advice on how to form the LLC and do things right with the
> > FAA registration?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > --
> > Vernon Franklin
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: A couple of questions |
1. Stock kit has no crotch strap attach point up front. A few people have made
an attach point to the bottom of the seat frame (I know no details).
2. LLC laws vary by state, as do liability laws. If you are the sole pilot an LLC
will offer very limited protection, as after an accident the PIC and owners
will all be sued, and, in most states ("joint and several liability") a no-asset
LLC won't help. However, if you have a partner and he has the accident, having
an LLC may provide you with some protection. Here in CA an LLC has another
function. All aircraft sales are subject to the 9% state sales tax. If an LLC
owns the airplane, the airplane ownership doesn't change so no tax. You just
sell the stock in the LLC (said sale is subject to capital gains tax). OTOH,
CA charges a minimum annual tax on LLCs, I think it's $750/yr. You have to run
the numbers and decide what is best for you. As the sole pilot, I don't have
an LLC.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466979#466979
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: A couple of questions |
An LLC isn't going to provide any real shield from liability, so that would
be a poor reason to do it. In this case, it's trivial to, "pierce the
corporate veil," as lawyers say. Mine's an LLC simply because I've got a
partner, and it's much easier for two people to own an LLC than for two
people to own a plane. If I were the sole owner, I wouldn't bother.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: A couple of questions |
I have dealt with the LLC issue quite a few times for different planes, in different
states and for different reasons.
1. The main benefit in many states is sales tax when it sells. As others have said,
you sell stock instead of the plane so there is no sales tax. This can be
a selling benefit to the buyer.
2. It does make partnerships much easier.
3. Some FSDO's/DAR's have let an LLC be the builder. This may shield from some
liability. The individual may sign off the condition inspection, but the last
condition inspection holds the most liability. This benefit is mainly for you
after you sell the plane. I don't know how the repairman certificate would be
possible in this scenario, and really don't see how it could possibly meet the
regs as legal, but I know it does happen.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 7, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Vernon Franklin <vernon.franklin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 1. Is there a crotch mount point for the front seat belts? Or are the front
seats only 4 point?
>
> 2. I am hearing from hangar neighbors that I need to create an LLC as the registered
manufacture. Not to put my name on as manufacture for liability reasons.
As well as sell the LLC with the plane, if I ever sell the plane. Is this
a pretty common thing for home builders to do? If so, any advice on how to form
the LLC and do things right with the FAA registration?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Vernon Franklin
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