Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:58 AM - Re: LSE Plasma III - Timing (rvdave)
2. 06:47 AM - Re: SB 14-08-29 and life of nose shock disks (Kelly McMullen)
3. 07:15 AM - Re: Re: LSE Plasma III - Timing (Phillip Perry)
4. 07:15 AM - Re: SB 14-08-29 and life of nose shock disks (Rob Kermanj)
5. 07:30 AM - Re: SB 14-08-29 and life of nose shock disks (Jim Combs)
6. 07:41 AM - Re: LSE Plasma III - Timing (rvdave)
7. 01:50 PM - Re: Re: LSE Plasma III - Timing (Phillip Perry)
8. 03:02 PM - Re: LSE Plasma III - Timing (dmaib@me.com)
9. 05:03 PM - Re: Re: LSE Plasma III - Timing ()
10. 05:25 PM - Re: Re: LSE Plasma III - Timing (Phillip Perry)
11. 05:57 PM - Re: Re: LSE Plasma III - Timing (Bob Condrey)
12. 06:15 PM - Re: LSE Plasma III - Timing (Lenny Iszak)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: LSE Plasma III - Timing |
Did you ever find a procedure for verifying timing? Almost to that point and want
to be ready.
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468381#468381
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: SB 14-08-29 and life of nose shock disks |
Now that those flying have a few more years, any feedback on how much the
shock disks are compressing over time? Early achievers are over 10 yrs now?
I'm curious, as the exact same disks are used on all three gear legs of
Mooneys. On the older, short body style (2575 gross) they seem to last 20+
years.
On intermediate body (F,J&K models)(2740-2800 gross) they seem to last
10-15 yrs. On newer long body models with up to 3200 gross they are only
good for 5-7 yrs.
IIRC only a few doing the SB found cracks? Should the retaining bolt at the
top of the hat be tight or free to rotate when the plane is on gear with
weight on nose?
Trying to complete condition inspection.
Kelly
-sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Linn Walters <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
> I would think this comes under the heading of 'if it ain't broke ....
> don't fix it'.
> They will continue to compress, but the rate slows down over time. They
> should last for 10 years or more. I'd keep adding spacers until you see
> cracks in the elastomer.
> Linn
>
> On 9/17/2014 4:06 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
>
>>
>> - I don't know about replacing the nose wheel elastomers. Afterall, they
>> are already compressed and 'set'. Thoughts?
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: LSE Plasma III - Timing |
I did. It wasn't as confusing as I thought it would be. I will try and type
something up and send it out in the next day or so.
Pretty straight forward. The most difficult part was finding/marking TDC for
each coil.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 14, 2017, at 7:58 AM, rvdave <rv610dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Did you ever find a procedure for verifying timing? Almost to that point and
want to be ready.
>
> --------
> Dave Ford
> RV6 for sale
> RV10 building
> Cadillac, MI
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468381#468381
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: SB 14-08-29 and life of nose shock disks |
I had to add one washer after 1200 hrs and 9 years. Van sez three washers an
d replace. I operate out of grass field and do not have the crack. My top h
at is not tight but does not rotate by hand. Did not want to force another w
asher to get it really tight.
Do not archive.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 14, 2017, at 9:47 AM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Now that those flying have a few more years, any feedback on how much the s
hock disks are compressing over time? Early achievers are over 10 yrs now?
> I'm curious, as the exact same disks are used on all three gear legs of Mo
oneys. On the older, short body style (2575 gross) they seem to last 20+ yea
rs.
> On intermediate body (F,J&K models)(2740-2800 gross) they seem to last 10-
15 yrs. On newer long body models with up to 3200 gross they are only good f
or 5-7 yrs.
> IIRC only a few doing the SB found cracks? Should the retaining bolt at th
e top of the hat be tight or free to rotate when the plane is on gear with w
eight on nose?
> Trying to complete condition inspection.
> Kelly
>
> -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm
>
>> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Linn Walters <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com> wro
te:
>>
>> I would think this comes under the heading of 'if it ain't broke .... don
't fix it'.
>> They will continue to compress, but the rate slows down over time. They s
hould last for 10 years or more. I'd keep adding spacers until you see crac
ks in the elastomer.
>> Linn
>>
>>> On 9/17/2014 4:06 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
>>>
>>> - I don't know about replacing the nose wheel elastomers. Afterall, they
are already compressed and 'set'. Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: SB 14-08-29 and life of nose shock disks |
N312F 800+ hours hard surface runway, 6 years, no cracks, 1 washer
Jim C
On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 9:47 AM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
> Now that those flying have a few more years, any feedback on how much the
> shock disks are compressing over time? Early achievers are over 10 yrs now?
> I'm curious, as the exact same disks are used on all three gear legs of
> Mooneys. On the older, short body style (2575 gross) they seem to last 20+
> years.
> On intermediate body (F,J&K models)(2740-2800 gross) they seem to last
> 10-15 yrs. On newer long body models with up to 3200 gross they are only
> good for 5-7 yrs.
> IIRC only a few doing the SB found cracks? Should the retaining bolt at
> the top of the hat be tight or free to rotate when the plane is on gear
> with weight on nose?
> Trying to complete condition inspection.
> Kelly
>
> -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm
>
> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Linn Walters <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I would think this comes under the heading of 'if it ain't broke ....
>> don't fix it'.
>> They will continue to compress, but the rate slows down over time. They
>> should last for 10 years or more. I'd keep adding spacers until you see
>> cracks in the elastomer.
>> Linn
>>
>> On 9/17/2014 4:06 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> - I don't know about replacing the nose wheel elastomers. Afterall, they
>>> are already compressed and 'set'. Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: LSE Plasma III - Timing |
Great, thanks
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468388#468388
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: LSE Plasma III - Timing |
Here's how I checked the timing on the LSE Plasma III. The most difficult
part was locating TDC on the flywheel for each of the coils.
1) To start the process, you can put Cyl #1 on TDC of the compression
stroke. You can locate TDC one of two ways, first there is a hole in the
starter and a stamp on (the front of) your flywheel showing TDC 1. You
can align the TDC 1 stamp to point directly at the hole on the starter.
The second method is look on the backside of the flywheel and you will see
the same TDC 1 stamp. The line on that stamp should be aligned with the
top of the crankcase split.
NOTE: Since the engine will be running, you will check all Plasma III
timings from the backside of the flywheel.
2) Now that you know where TDC is for cylinder #1 (really for the coils
attached to 1 & 2), you need to segment the flywheel into equal 3rd. This
will allow you to locate TDC for the coils serving 3&4 and 5&6. That's the
challenging part.
I took a long piece of blue painters tape and, starting at the TDC 1 mark
we identified earlier, I pulled it around the flywheel laying it on the
teeth. Then when it wrapped back up around to TDC 1 again, I marked it and
cut it. That gave me the full circumference of the teeth on the fly
wheel. I peeled the tape off and stuck it to a table. The I used a
ruler and marker to segment it in to 3rds.
Then I put the tape back on the flywheel again being careful to start the
tape on TDC 1 again and wrapping it around. The marks on the tape were
transferred over to the flywheel. I now know where TDC exist for Coils
1&2, Coils 3&4, and Coils 5&6. (If TDC 1 is 0=C2=BA then the next third o
ver
would be 120=C2=BA and the next third over would be 240=C2=BA before anothe
r third
passes and we're back to 0=C2=BA). Hopefully that makes sense.
3) Now the next step is to figure out how much advance we should be seeing
at the time of ignition. If you look in your LSE manual, there is a
recommendation from them depending on the manufacturers suggested timing
(stamped on your data plate). I have 9:1 pistons and Aerosport Power
recommends a 20=C2=BA advance on the Mags. If I look at the LSE manual, I
can
see that I should have 35=C2=BA advance +/- 2=C2=BA (with the manifold pre
ssure line
connected) and 16=C2=BA +/- 2=C2=BA with the manifold pressure line disconn
ected.
Those are the metrics we are looking for.
4) Now we need to mark 16=C2=BA and 35=C2=BA advance of TDC on the backside
of the
flywheel. We will have to add them for each of the TDC marks we put on
the backside of the flywheel.
Using a piece of tape and the existing stampings on the backside of my
flywheel for TDC, 20, 23, and 25, I made my own measurement tool to
extrapolate where 16=C2=BA and 35=C2=BA would be prior to TDC. Then I meas
ured it
off for each of the TDC markings on my flywheel. I put a mark at 16 and
another at 35. You want these marks to contrast really well since you're
going to be looking for them with a timing light.
5) Once all the marks are made, you need to make a pointer to show where
the crankcase split is relative to the marks. The pointer needs to be long
enough to get right behind the flywheel to reduce error (since you're going
to be standing off to the side looking at it). Here's a photo of the
pointer I made. I also tipped it with a red marker to make it easier to
see. You can bend your pointer to align with the crankcase split.
[image: Inline image 1]
Now that your marks are made and your pointer is setup, you just have to
check it. You'll need a regular old induction timing light. (IE: Not one
of the new fancy ones with the computer dial on it, etc. Just a light that
will pop when there is a spark detected.) I ran mine in the sunlight and
it was very difficult to see and I feel like it was a little more risk than
I really wanted to take because I had to get the light right up there close
to see it. Shade or late evening would be even better.
The test should be performed between 600-900 RPM according to LSE. I chose
800 because the engine seems really happy and smooth idling there.
The first thing you want to check is the timing with the manifold pressure
line connected. Put your induction coupler over the spark plug lead on #1
or #2 (doesn't matter they're both attached to the same coil) and shoot the
light at the pointer. You should see your mark for 35.
Then slip it over to the spark plug lead for #3 or #4 and shoot it again.
You should see the other 35=C2=BA mark.
Then slip it over to the spark plug lead for #5 or #6 and shoot it again.
Once again you should see the 35=C2=BA mark.
Thats good, everything is right. Now we need to check it with the manifold
pressure disconnected. I have my MP going to the manifold with the oil
pressure and fuel pressure sensors on it. For me, disconnecting MP is as
simple as pulling off a rubber hose at that manifold. But somehow you need
to pull the MP from the electronic ignition box.
When you do pull it, the engine will change in sound. LSE says it will
stumble a bit, but I thought it still ran pretty well; just changed the
sound a bit.
While your lead is still on 5/6, shoot it and you should see 16=C2=BA.
Switch over to 3/4 and shoot it. You should see 16=C2=BA.
Switch over to 1/2 and shoot it. You should see 16=C2=BA.
If you saw it, then the test is complete.
Keep in mind that you have +/- 2=C2=BA variance on those numbers, so it's p
retty
forgiving. 2=C2=BA is quite a bit when you start measuring it out on the
flywheel. I'd also point out that LSE mentions changes for density
altitude. What I referenced was sea level and there is a 1=C2=BA change to
be
added for each thousand feet of DA. So check your DA can adjust
accordingly. It's mentioned in their manual on page 36. Here's a link.
http://lightspeed-aero.com/Manuals/Plasma_CdiManual_20130317.pdf
If your timing is off, the way to change it is to adjust the direct crank
sensor be loosening screws and sliding it around. That looks to be a
painful process on my engine. I think I'd have to take the prop and
flywheel off to do it. Fortunately mine was spot-on.
Hope that helps. It really wasn't that big of a deal but the details could
be helpful for you or someone else later on down the line.
Good luck!
Phil
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: LSE Plasma III - Timing |
Excellent write up, Phil.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468398#468398
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: LSE Plasma III - Timing |
Hey Phil,
Just a question since I=99ve only rebuilt auto engines. You went
to a lot of trouble to find TDC for the other cylinders. Unless there
is a way to adjust the trigger mechanism for individual coils, why would
you need to know anything other than the standard cylinder #1 ?
Assuming #1 was correct, how could the others be off, and how would you
correct it if they were?
Later, =93 Lew
From: Phillip Perry
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: LSE Plasma III - Timing
Here's how I checked the timing on the LSE Plasma III. The most
difficult part was locating TDC on the flywheel for each of the coils.
1) To start the process, you can put Cyl #1 on TDC of the compression
stroke. You can locate TDC one of two ways, first there is a hole in
the starter and a stamp on (the front of) your flywheel showing TDC 1.
You can align the TDC 1 stamp to point directly at the hole on the
starter. The second method is look on the backside of the flywheel and
you will see the same TDC 1 stamp. The line on that stamp should be
aligned with the top of the crankcase split.
NOTE: Since the engine will be running, you will check all Plasma III
timings from the backside of the flywheel.
2) Now that you know where TDC is for cylinder #1 (really for the coils
attached to 1 & 2), you need to segment the flywheel into equal 3rd.
This will allow you to locate TDC for the coils serving 3&4 and 5&6.
That's the challenging part.
I took a long piece of blue painters tape and, starting at the TDC 1
mark we identified earlier, I pulled it around the flywheel laying it on
the teeth. Then when it wrapped back up around to TDC 1 again, I marked
it and cut it. That gave me the full circumference of the teeth on the
fly wheel. I peeled the tape off and stuck it to a table. The I used
a ruler and marker to segment it in to 3rds.
Then I put the tape back on the flywheel again being careful to start
the tape on TDC 1 again and wrapping it around. The marks on the tape
were transferred over to the flywheel. I now know where TDC exist for
Coils 1&2, Coils 3&4, and Coils 5&6. (If TDC 1 is 0=C2=BA then the
next third over would be 120=C2=BA and the next third over would be
240=C2=BA before another third passes and we're back to 0=C2=BA).
Hopefully that makes sense.
3) Now the next step is to figure out how much advance we should be
seeing at the time of ignition. If you look in your LSE manual, there
is a recommendation from them depending on the manufacturers suggested
timing (stamped on your data plate). I have 9:1 pistons and Aerosport
Power recommends a 20=C2=BA advance on the Mags. If I look at the LSE
manual, I can see that I should have 35=C2=BA advance +/- 2=C2=BA (with
the manifold pressure line connected) and 16=C2=BA +/- 2=C2=BA with the
manifold pressure line disconnected. Those are the metrics we are
looking for.
4) Now we need to mark 16=C2=BA and 35=C2=BA advance of TDC on the
backside of the flywheel. We will have to add them for each of the TDC
marks we put on the backside of the flywheel.
Using a piece of tape and the existing stampings on the backside of my
flywheel for TDC, 20, 23, and 25, I made my own measurement tool to
extrapolate where 16=C2=BA and 35=C2=BA would be prior to TDC. Then I
measured it off for each of the TDC markings on my flywheel. I put a
mark at 16 and another at 35. You want these marks to contrast really
well since you're going to be looking for them with a timing light.
5) Once all the marks are made, you need to make a pointer to show where
the crankcase split is relative to the marks. The pointer needs to be
long enough to get right behind the flywheel to reduce error (since
you're going to be standing off to the side looking at it). Here's a
photo of the pointer I made. I also tipped it with a red marker to make
it easier to see. You can bend your pointer to align with the crankcase
split.
Now that your marks are made and your pointer is setup, you just have to
check it. You'll need a regular old induction timing light. (IE: Not
one of the new fancy ones with the computer dial on it, etc. Just a
light that will pop when there is a spark detected.) I ran mine in the
sunlight and it was very difficult to see and I feel like it was a
little more risk than I really wanted to take because I had to get the
light right up there close to see it. Shade or late evening would be
even better.
The test should be performed between 600-900 RPM according to LSE. I
chose 800 because the engine seems really happy and smooth idling there.
The first thing you want to check is the timing with the manifold
pressure line connected. Put your induction coupler over the spark
plug lead on #1 or #2 (doesn't matter they're both attached to the same
coil) and shoot the light at the pointer. You should see your mark for
35.
Then slip it over to the spark plug lead for #3 or #4 and shoot it
again. You should see the other 35=C2=BA mark.
Then slip it over to the spark plug lead for #5 or #6 and shoot it
again. Once again you should see the 35=C2=BA mark.
Thats good, everything is right. Now we need to check it with the
manifold pressure disconnected. I have my MP going to the manifold
with the oil pressure and fuel pressure sensors on it. For me,
disconnecting MP is as simple as pulling off a rubber hose at that
manifold. But somehow you need to pull the MP from the electronic
ignition box.
When you do pull it, the engine will change in sound. LSE says it will
stumble a bit, but I thought it still ran pretty well; just changed the
sound a bit.
While your lead is still on 5/6, shoot it and you should see 16=C2=BA.
Switch over to 3/4 and shoot it. You should see 16=C2=BA.
Switch over to 1/2 and shoot it. You should see 16=C2=BA.
If you saw it, then the test is complete.
Keep in mind that you have +/- 2=C2=BA variance on those numbers, so
it's pretty forgiving. 2=C2=BA is quite a bit when you start measuring
it out on the flywheel. I'd also point out that LSE mentions changes
for density altitude. What I referenced was sea level and there is a
1=C2=BA change to be added for each thousand feet of DA. So check your
DA can adjust accordingly. It's mentioned in their manual on page 36.
Here's a link.
http://lightspeed-aero.com/Manuals/Plasma_CdiManual_20130317.pdf
If your timing is off, the way to change it is to adjust the direct
crank sensor be loosening screws and sliding it around. That looks to
be a painful process on my engine. I think I'd have to take the prop
and flywheel off to do it. Fortunately mine was spot-on.
Hope that helps. It really wasn't that big of a deal but the details
could be helpful for you or someone else later on down the line.
Good luck!
Phil
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: LSE Plasma III - Timing |
Hi Lew,
I asked myself the same thing and simply followed the published LSE procedur
e in checking all 3.
I can think of a few reasons to check them though. First, the Mag is a mech
anical device and if #1 is correct (and you have the correct mag installed) t
hen the rest have to be correct.
The LSE is software and there is the possibly of a bug or botched processor.
Checking all 3 stops that.
Another is validating your firing order to make sure you didn't swap out A&B
or B&C and so on. This would only work if you could mark is TDC with a 1, 2
, or 3 so you know which timing mark you should be seeing in the flash.
The final one I can think of is checking the integrity of the coax cables be
tween the box and coils. This gives you insight into what's happening betw
een the two devices to know they're correct.
Ultimately though, I just did it because LSE said to do it. They didn't ela
borate on why but I can only suspect they have a reason for the extra effort
.
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 14, 2017, at 7:03 PM, <lewgall@charter.net> <lewgall@charter.net> w
rote:
>
> Hey Phil,
>
> Just a question since I=99ve only rebuilt auto engines. You went to
a lot of trouble to find TDC for the other cylinders. Unless there is a wa
y to adjust the trigger mechanism for individual coils, why would you need t
o know anything other than the standard cylinder #1 ? Assuming #1 was corre
ct, how could the others be off, and how would you correct it if they were?
>
> Later, =93 Lew
>
> From: Phillip Perry
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 4:49 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: LSE Plasma III - Timing
>
> Here's how I checked the timing on the LSE Plasma III. The most difficul
t part was locating TDC on the flywheel for each of the coils.
>
> 1) To start the process, you can put Cyl #1 on TDC of the compression stro
ke. You can locate TDC one of two ways, first there is a hole in the start
er and a stamp on (the front of) your flywheel showing TDC 1. You can alig
n the TDC 1 stamp to point directly at the hole on the starter. The second
method is look on the backside of the flywheel and you will see the same TD
C 1 stamp. The line on that stamp should be aligned with the top of the cr
ankcase split.
>
> NOTE: Since the engine will be running, you will check all Plasma III timi
ngs from the backside of the flywheel.
>
> 2) Now that you know where TDC is for cylinder #1 (really for the coils at
tached to 1 & 2), you need to segment the flywheel into equal 3rd. This wi
ll allow you to locate TDC for the coils serving 3&4 and 5&6. That's the ch
allenging part.
>
> I took a long piece of blue painters tape and, starting at the TDC 1 mark w
e identified earlier, I pulled it around the flywheel laying it on the teeth
. Then when it wrapped back up around to TDC 1 again, I marked it and cut i
t. That gave me the full circumference of the teeth on the fly wheel. I p
eeled the tape off and stuck it to a table. The I used a ruler and marker t
o segment it in to 3rds.
>
> Then I put the tape back on the flywheel again being careful to start the
tape on TDC 1 again and wrapping it around. The marks on the tape were tr
ansferred over to the flywheel. I now know where TDC exist for Coils 1&2, C
oils 3&4, and Coils 5&6. (If TDC 1 is 0=C2=BA then the next third over wou
ld be 120=C2=BA and the next third over would be 240=C2=BA before another th
ird passes and we're back to 0=C2=BA). Hopefully that makes sense.
>
> 3) Now the next step is to figure out how much advance we should be seeing
at the time of ignition. If you look in your LSE manual, there is a recom
mendation from them depending on the manufacturers suggested timing (stampe
d on your data plate). I have 9:1 pistons and Aerosport Power recommends a
20=C2=BA advance on the Mags. If I look at the LSE manual, I can see that
I should have 35=C2=BA advance +/- 2=C2=BA (with the manifold pressure lin
e connected) and 16=C2=BA +/- 2=C2=BA with the manifold pressure line discon
nected. Those are the metrics we are looking for.
>
> 4) Now we need to mark 16=C2=BA and 35=C2=BA advance of TDC on the backsid
e of the flywheel. We will have to add them for each of the TDC marks we p
ut on the backside of the flywheel.
>
> Using a piece of tape and the existing stampings on the backside of my fly
wheel for TDC, 20, 23, and 25, I made my own measurement tool to extrapolate
where 16=C2=BA and 35=C2=BA would be prior to TDC. Then I measured it off f
or each of the TDC markings on my flywheel. I put a mark at 16 and another
at 35. You want these marks to contrast really well since you're going to
be looking for them with a timing light.
>
> 5) Once all the marks are made, you need to make a pointer to show where t
he crankcase split is relative to the marks. The pointer needs to be long e
nough to get right behind the flywheel to reduce error (since you're going t
o be standing off to the side looking at it). Here's a photo of the pointe
r I made. I also tipped it with a red marker to make it easier to see. You
can bend your pointer to align with the crankcase split.
>
> <image.png>
>
> Now that your marks are made and your pointer is setup, you just have to c
heck it. You'll need a regular old induction timing light. (IE: Not one o
f the new fancy ones with the computer dial on it, etc. Just a light that w
ill pop when there is a spark detected.) I ran mine in the sunlight and it w
as very difficult to see and I feel like it was a little more risk than I re
ally wanted to take because I had to get the light right up there close to s
ee it. Shade or late evening would be even better.
>
> The test should be performed between 600-900 RPM according to LSE. I chos
e 800 because the engine seems really happy and smooth idling there.
>
> The first thing you want to check is the timing with the manifold pressure
line connected. Put your induction coupler over the spark plug lead on #1
or #2 (doesn't matter they're both attached to the same coil) and shoot the
light at the pointer. You should see your mark for 35.
>
> Then slip it over to the spark plug lead for #3 or #4 and shoot it again.
You should see the other 35=C2=BA mark.
>
> Then slip it over to the spark plug lead for #5 or #6 and shoot it again.
Once again you should see the 35=C2=BA mark.
>
> Thats good, everything is right. Now we need to check it with the manifol
d pressure disconnected. I have my MP going to the manifold with the oil p
ressure and fuel pressure sensors on it. For me, disconnecting MP is as sim
ple as pulling off a rubber hose at that manifold. But somehow you need to p
ull the MP from the electronic ignition box.
>
> When you do pull it, the engine will change in sound. LSE says it will st
umble a bit, but I thought it still ran pretty well; just changed the sound a
bit.
>
> While your lead is still on 5/6, shoot it and you should see 16=C2=BA.
> Switch over to 3/4 and shoot it. You should see 16=C2=BA.
> Switch over to 1/2 and shoot it. You should see 16=C2=BA.
>
> If you saw it, then the test is complete.
>
> Keep in mind that you have +/- 2=C2=BA variance on those numbers, so it's p
retty forgiving. 2=C2=BA is quite a bit when you start measuring it out on t
he flywheel. I'd also point out that LSE mentions changes for density altit
ude. What I referenced was sea level and there is a 1=C2=BA change to be ad
ded for each thousand feet of DA. So check your DA can adjust accordingly.
It's mentioned in their manual on page 36. Here's a link.
>
> http://lightspeed-aero.com/Manuals/Plasma_CdiManual_20130317.pdf
>
> If your timing is off, the way to change it is to adjust the direct crank s
ensor be loosening screws and sliding it around. That looks to be a painful
process on my engine. I think I'd have to take the prop and flywheel off t
o do it. Fortunately mine was spot-on.
>
> Hope that helps. It really wasn't that big of a deal but the details coul
d be helpful for you or someone else later on down the line.
>
> Good luck!
> Phil
>
>
>
>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: LSE Plasma III - Timing |
Just a minor note - I don't believe the LSE ignition boxes are
microprocessor/software driven. I believe I heard this from Klaus at OSH
but it's been a long time so I could be mistaken.
Bob
On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 7:30 PM Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Lew,
>
> I asked myself the same thing and simply followed the published LSE
> procedure in checking all 3.
>
> I can think of a few reasons to check them though. First, the Mag is a
> mechanical device and if #1 is correct (and you have the correct mag
> installed) then the rest have to be correct.
>
> The LSE is software and there is the possibly of a bug or botched
> processor. Checking all 3 stops that.
>
> Another is validating your firing order to make sure you didn't swap out
> A&B or B&C and so on. This would only work if you could mark is TDC with
a
> 1, 2, or 3 so you know which timing mark you should be seeing in the flas
h.
>
> The final one I can think of is checking the integrity of the coax cables
> between the box and coils. This gives you insight into what's happening
> between the two devices to know they're correct.
>
> Ultimately though, I just did it because LSE said to do it. They didn't
> elaborate on why but I can only suspect they have a reason for the extra
> effort.
>
> Phil
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 14, 2017, at 7:03 PM, <lewgall@charter.net> <lewgall@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
> Hey Phil,
>
> Just a question since I=99ve only rebuilt auto engines. You went t
o a lot
> of trouble to find TDC for the other cylinders. Unless there is a way to
> adjust the trigger mechanism for individual coils, why would you need to
> know anything other than the standard cylinder #1 ? Assuming #1 was
> correct, how could the others be off, and how would you correct it if the
y
> were?
>
> Later, =93 Lew
>
> *From:* Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, April 14, 2017 4:49 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Re: LSE Plasma III - Timing
>
>
> Here's how I checked the timing on the LSE Plasma III. The most
> difficult part was locating TDC on the flywheel for each of the coils.
>
> 1) To start the process, you can put Cyl #1 on TDC of the compression
> stroke. You can locate TDC one of two ways, first there is a hole in th
e
> starter and a stamp on (the front of) your flywheel showing TDC 1. You
> can align the TDC 1 stamp to point directly at the hole on the starter.
> The second method is look on the backside of the flywheel and you will se
e
> the same TDC 1 stamp. The line on that stamp should be aligned with the
> top of the crankcase split.
>
> NOTE: Since the engine will be running, you will check all Plasma III
> timings from the backside of the flywheel.
>
> 2) Now that you know where TDC is for cylinder #1 (really for the coils
> attached to 1 & 2), you need to segment the flywheel into equal 3rd. Th
is
> will allow you to locate TDC for the coils serving 3&4 and 5&6. That's t
he
> challenging part.
>
> I took a long piece of blue painters tape and, starting at the TDC 1 mark
> we identified earlier, I pulled it around the flywheel laying it on the
> teeth. Then when it wrapped back up around to TDC 1 again, I marked it a
nd
> cut it. That gave me the full circumference of the teeth on the fly
> wheel. I peeled the tape off and stuck it to a table. The I used a
> ruler and marker to segment it in to 3rds.
>
> Then I put the tape back on the flywheel again being careful to start the
> tape on TDC 1 again and wrapping it around. The marks on the tape were
> transferred over to the flywheel. I now know where TDC exist for Coils
> 1&2, Coils 3&4, and Coils 5&6. (If TDC 1 is 0=C2=BA then the next third
over
> would be 120=C2=BA and the next third over would be 240=C2=BA before anot
her third
> passes and we're back to 0=C2=BA). Hopefully that makes sense.
>
> 3) Now the next step is to figure out how much advance we should be seein
g
> at the time of ignition. If you look in your LSE manual, there is a
> recommendation from them depending on the manufacturers suggested timing
> (stamped on your data plate). I have 9:1 pistons and Aerosport Power
> recommends a 20=C2=BA advance on the Mags. If I look at the LSE manual,
I can
> see that I should have 35=C2=BA advance +/- 2=C2=BA (with the manifold p
ressure line
> connected) and 16=C2=BA +/- 2=C2=BA with the manifold pressure line disco
nnected.
> Those are the metrics we are looking for.
>
> 4) Now we need to mark 16=C2=BA and 35=C2=BA advance of TDC on the backsi
de of the
> flywheel. We will have to add them for each of the TDC marks we put on
> the backside of the flywheel.
>
> Using a piece of tape and the existing stampings on the backside of my
> flywheel for TDC, 20, 23, and 25, I made my own measurement tool to
> extrapolate where 16=C2=BA and 35=C2=BA would be prior to TDC. Then I me
asured it
> off for each of the TDC markings on my flywheel. I put a mark at 16 and
> another at 35. You want these marks to contrast really well since you'r
e
> going to be looking for them with a timing light.
>
> 5) Once all the marks are made, you need to make a pointer to show where
> the crankcase split is relative to the marks. The pointer needs to be lo
ng
> enough to get right behind the flywheel to reduce error (since you're goi
ng
> to be standing off to the side looking at it). Here's a photo of the
> pointer I made. I also tipped it with a red marker to make it easier to
> see. You can bend your pointer to align with the crankcase split.
>
>
> <image.png>
>
>
> Now that your marks are made and your pointer is setup, you just have to
> check it. You'll need a regular old induction timing light. (IE: Not o
ne
> of the new fancy ones with the computer dial on it, etc. Just a light th
at
> will pop when there is a spark detected.) I ran mine in the sunlight and
> it was very difficult to see and I feel like it was a little more risk th
an
> I really wanted to take because I had to get the light right up there clo
se
> to see it. Shade or late evening would be even better.
>
> The test should be performed between 600-900 RPM according to LSE. I
> chose 800 because the engine seems really happy and smooth idling there.
>
> The first thing you want to check is the timing with the manifold pressur
e
> line connected. Put your induction coupler over the spark plug lead on
#1
> or #2 (doesn't matter they're both attached to the same coil) and shoot t
he
> light at the pointer. You should see your mark for 35.
>
> Then slip it over to the spark plug lead for #3 or #4 and shoot it again.
> You should see the other 35=C2=BA mark.
>
> Then slip it over to the spark plug lead for #5 or #6 and shoot it
> again. Once again you should see the 35=C2=BA mark.
>
> Thats good, everything is right. Now we need to check it with the
> manifold pressure disconnected. I have my MP going to the manifold with
> the oil pressure and fuel pressure sensors on it. For me, disconnecting
MP
> is as simple as pulling off a rubber hose at that manifold. But somehow
> you need to pull the MP from the electronic ignition box.
>
> When you do pull it, the engine will change in sound. LSE says it will
> stumble a bit, but I thought it still ran pretty well; just changed the
> sound a bit.
>
> While your lead is still on 5/6, shoot it and you should see 16=C2=BA.
> Switch over to 3/4 and shoot it. You should see 16=C2=BA.
> Switch over to 1/2 and shoot it. You should see 16=C2=BA.
>
> If you saw it, then the test is complete.
>
> Keep in mind that you have +/- 2=C2=BA variance on those numbers, so it's
> pretty forgiving. 2=C2=BA is quite a bit when you start measuring it out
on the
> flywheel. I'd also point out that LSE mentions changes for density
> altitude. What I referenced was sea level and there is a 1=C2=BA change
to be
> added for each thousand feet of DA. So check your DA can adjust
> accordingly. It's mentioned in their manual on page 36. Here's a link.
>
> http://lightspeed-aero.com/Manuals/Plasma_CdiManual_20130317.pdf
>
> If your timing is off, the way to change it is to adjust the direct crank
> sensor be loosening screws and sliding it around. That looks to be a
> painful process on my engine. I think I'd have to take the prop and
> flywheel off to do it. Fortunately mine was spot-on.
>
> Hope that helps. It really wasn't that big of a deal but the details
> could be helpful for you or someone else later on down the line.
>
> Good luck!
> Phil
>
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: LSE Plasma III - Timing |
LSE has no microprocessor and no software. That's one of the reasons I picked it
over the other available EIs.
Regardless, it's good to check everything out before you get that 50k engine going.
Lenny
philperry9 wrote:
>
> The LSE is software and there is the possibly of a bug or botched processor.
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468405#468405
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|