---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 04/24/17: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:06 AM - Re: FYI update on NL Starter, rebuilt mags (and fresh plugs) (bill.peyton) 2. 06:42 AM - Re: Re: FYI update on NL Starter, rebuilt mags (and fresh plugs) (Kelly McMullen) 3. 11:03 AM - Re: FYI update on NL Starter, rebuilt mags (and fresh plugs) (Bill Watson) 4. 01:38 PM - Re: FYI update on NL Starter, rebuilt mags (and fresh plugs) (Tim Olson) 5. 07:07 PM - Re: FYI update on NL Starter, rebuilt mags (and fresh plugs) (Kelly McMullen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:29 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: FYI update on NL Starter, rebuilt mags (and fresh plugs) From: "bill.peyton" Champion plugs used to be manufactured with a resistive element that was inserted into the center of the plug and held in place with a spring and a screw cap. This design was flawed and allowed the assembly to fail over time from either the contact resistance increasing or the spring tension failing. The result was an excessive amount of series resistance through the plug. On several occasions this assembly has failed by opening up and then taking out a magneto with it. When the resistor opens up, the magneto starts to arc internally. The Tempest plug has an internal resistor that is integral to the assembly and is bonded in place. Champion has redesigned their plug in a similar manner to eliminate the aforementioned problem. You can identify the old plug design by looking into the center section. You will see a screw cap that can be removed with a conventional screw driver. -------- Bill WA0SYV Aviation Partners, LLC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468729#468729 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:57 AM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: FYI update on NL Starter, rebuilt mags (and fresh plugs) OK, so if Champion has "fixed" the problem, why would a CSOB RV builder choose to spend $4 more per massive plug, or $24 more per fine wire plug the buy the C brand over the T brand?? They also have shown problems with their fine wire plugs in turbo-charged and turbo-normalized engines, such that GAMI/Tornado Alley Turbos issued a service bulletin to not use Champion fine wires. (ceramic around center electrodes were cracking and failing) I don't know if it could be a problem or not with normally aspirated engines running higher than stock compression. I just don't know what would compel making a switch back to Champion. -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 6:05 AM, bill.peyton wrote: > > Champion plugs used to be manufactured with a resistive element that was > inserted into the center of the plug and held in place with a spring and a > screw cap. This design was flawed and allowed the assembly to fail over > time from either the contact resistance increasing or the spring tension > failing. The result was an excessive amount of series resistance through > the plug. On several occasions this assembly has failed by opening up and > then taking out a magneto with it. When the resistor opens up, the magneto > starts to arc internally. > The Tempest plug has an internal resistor that is integral to the assembly > and is bonded in place. Champion has redesigned their plug in a similar > manner to eliminate the aforementioned problem. > You can identify the old plug design by looking into the center section. > You will see a screw cap that can be removed with a conventional screw > driver. > > -------- > Bill > WA0SYV > Aviation Partners, LLC > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468729#468729 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:03:05 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: FYI update on NL Starter, rebuilt mags (and fresh plugs) From: Bill Watson I pushed the numbers out a bit because I had complied with Slick SB2-08a and SB3-08a at 205 hours which required new carbon brushes and cams. I believe those are the main wear items that might be inspected and repaired at the first 500. Having acquired the basic knowledge and tools to do the most basic inspect and repair, I considered self overhauling but as a few more hours ticked by, I decided to get rebuilt-to-new spec replacements. Going forward I will be swapping them out at 500 hours. Thanks all for the Busch/resistance check thing. I was replacing plugs as needed through 700 hours due to electrode erosion and then just replaced the remaining units at 700. Going forward when 1 or 2 need replacement, I'll probably just do the whole set. On 4/24/2017 1:09 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > The standard recommendation on conventional mags is to inspect and > repair as necessary at 500 hours, overhaul at 1000 hours. However > pricing of parts for Slicks tends to lead to lead to replacement > rather than overhaul, or to only do one overhaul. Normal massive plugs > usually have worn the electrodes thin enough that they should be > replaced at 400-500 hours. Not to mention that Champions tend to have > a fair number reach excessive resistance at less than 400 hours. I've > had one fail already with less than 100 hour....resistance at 7.5K > ohms. High resistance plugs will be somewhat intermittent and stress > the mags because a higher voltage is needed to create the spark. > > -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm > > On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 7:12 PM, Bill Watson > wrote: > > > > > I was never happy with the light weight starter that shipped with > the Vans configured Lycoming. As others have reported, getting > the first blade to turn over always seemed in question. I have > two batteries which I can apply separately or together to the > starter. Replacing the light weight starter with NL starter made > a world of difference. It turns a bit slower but with authority. > And though I always intend to use both batts for the start, I > accidentally did a 1 battery start today and got the same slower > but authoritative start. Confidence boosted - Dollars well spent. > > I also swapped out my original Slicks at 860 hours for rebuilts. > Everything was running fine but some recommend overhaul or > replacement at 500 hours. Though I didn't expect it, the engine > runs noticeably smoother (the old mags had just been timed before > they were replaced so the the comparison was meaningful). Again, > confidence boosted - dollars well spent. > > Back at 700 hours I completed replacement of all the original > plugs with new ones (the final 5 of 12). The engine ran > noticeably smoother and possibly with more oomph. Up to that > point, I had cleaned and gapped the plugs at every Condition > Inspection. Going forward, I plan to change plugs at 500 to 600 > hours. > > Just FYI, YMMV. > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > =================================== > -List" rel="noreferrer" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > =================================== > FORUMS - > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > WIKI - > errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com > =================================== > b Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:38:00 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: FYI update on NL Starter, rebuilt mags (and fresh plugs) From: Tim Olson Or, just use Fine wire plugs. I'm guessing those will run to TBO with minimal issues. They won't have electrode erosion, so if they are replaced early, it will likely be for some other purpose. Tim On 4/24/2017 1:02 PM, Bill Watson wrote: > I was replacing plugs as needed through 700 hours due to electrode > erosion and then just replaced the remaining units at 700. Going > forward when 1 or 2 need replacement, I'll probably just do the whole set. > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:56 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: FYI update on NL Starter, rebuilt mags (and fresh plugs) Economics are such that you only come out ahead if all of your fine wires make it to TBO. Drop one, have it develop high resistance or break an electrode, and you come out about even with having massives. I've seen them dropped, I've had Champion fine wires develop resistance of over 100K. So far haven't broken an electrode, but I know it is easy to do. If a cylinder is using some oil, fine wire on bottom plug might make sense, but an REM37BY does same thing for 1/3 the money. -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 1:36 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > > Or, just use Fine wire plugs. I'm guessing those will run to TBO > with minimal issues. They won't have electrode erosion, so if > they are replaced early, it will likely be for some other purpose. > Tim > > > On 4/24/2017 1:02 PM, Bill Watson wrote: > > I was replacing plugs as needed through 700 hours due to electrode >> erosion and then just replaced the remaining units at 700. Going >> forward when 1 or 2 need replacement, I'll probably just do the whole set. >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.