Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:59 AM - Insurance (Phillip Perry)
2. 07:14 AM - Re: Insurance (Kelly McMullen)
3. 07:17 AM - Re: Insurance (Don McDonald)
4. 07:23 AM - Re: Insurance (Tim Olson)
5. 07:47 AM - Re: Insurance (Lenny Iszak)
6. 08:07 AM - Re: Insurance (Kelly McMullen)
7. 08:23 AM - Re: Insurance (Alan Mekler MD)
Message 1
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So I got my first insurance quote back today and it was from Falcon. I hit
the floor when I saw it.
The quote I requested was for $225K Hull, $1M liability, Sub-Limit $100K
per passenger.
My question is about insuring vs under-insuring. Knowing that I'm not
going to build another one of these things, if I put it in the field, I'm
buying something next time around. So it might be a Bonanza or something
else. Anyway, it would be something that wouldn't cost what I have in the
-10.
I could drop hull coverage down to $140K or so and still be able to buy a
decent airplane and just decide that losing everything beyond that (in my
build) I can live with.
But what are the disadvantages of under insuring the hull value?
Curious to hear what others have done.
Thanks,
Phil
Message 2
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It depends on what you want to protect, and whether you want to risk the
insurance considering your aircraft "totaled" where it really wouldn't
be if insured for the market value. Generally, insurance guidelines for
a "total" are around 60-65% of the insured value, because they are
looking at salvage value, etc.
I considered what the kit, engine, avionics, etc. cost me, with no value
put on my time and labor, to come up with what I wanted to insure for.
Hull coverage is generally a percentage of stated value, adjusted for
risk evaluation of pilot(s). So my RV-10, that is worth around 4 times
what my previous Mooney was, cost me about $600 a year more to insure
than the Mooney did, even though the risks to the RV are somewhat less,
given fixed gear vs retract. Most older retracts are totaled if they
have a gear up, due to cost of prop replacement and engine teardown.
Usually cost to repair airframe isn't that bad.
Also keep in mind that usually there are limitations on coverage for the
first 5 or 10 hours, and that rates likely will come down after you and
the plane have 100 hours.
On 5/11/2017 6:58 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
> So I got my first insurance quote back today and it was from Falcon. I
> hit the floor when I saw it.
>
> The quote I requested was for $225K Hull, $1M liability, Sub-Limit $100K
> per passenger.
>
> My question is about insuring vs under-insuring. Knowing that I'm not
> going to build another one of these things, if I put it in the field,
> I'm buying something next time around. So it might be a Bonanza or
> something else. Anyway, it would be something that wouldn't cost what
> I have in the -10.
>
> I could drop hull coverage down to $140K or so and still be able to buy
> a decent airplane and just decide that losing everything beyond that (in
> my build) I can live with.
>
> But what are the disadvantages of under insuring the hull value?
>
> Curious to hear what others have done.
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
Message 3
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You should have at least told us what the quote was????Don Mc
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com>
To: "rv10-list@matronics.com" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 9:13 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Insurance
So I got my first insurance quote back today and it was from Falcon.=C2-
I hit the floor when I saw it.
The quote I requested was for $225K Hull, $1M liability, Sub-Limit $100K pe
r passenger.
My question is about insuring vs under-insuring. =C2- Knowing that I'm no
t going to build another one of these things, if I put it in the field, I'm
buying something next time around.=C2- So it might be a Bonanza or somet
hing else. =C2- Anyway, it would be something that wouldn't cost what I h
ave in the -10.
I could drop hull coverage down to $140K or so and still be able to buy a d
ecent airplane and just decide that losing everything beyond that (in my bu
ild) I can live with.
But what are the disadvantages of under insuring the hull value?
Curious to hear what others have done.
Thanks,Phil
Message 4
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Hull value is everything. So is time in type. If you don't have
an instrument rating, that's another ding against you.
Your hull value is quite high...higher than any I've ever seen
quoted on an RV-10. (although I'm sure there are some out there)
I wouldn't recommend under-insuring, nor over-insuring.
But you may have to look at what you *really* have into the plane.
Unless you did something extraordinary, your $225K is probably
not in line with reality. Think RV-10 market value for the plane.
It used to be easy to sell them for that price, but now it's
a bunch harder. Maybe there's a happy medium and the hull
value is $175-200k? Add up your avionics, engine, airframe,
and some additional supplies, and see what it really cost.
I'm not an insurance expert but I can tell you that if you
under insure, you can lose big, and every article I've ever
read about over-insuring points out ways that it can be very
bad as well. So I would try to be as accurate as possible and
consider the market value of the plane. Don't try to squeeze
dollars of your hard work out of it.
And remember, while if you put it in the field, you damage
the plane, I get it that you wouldn't tackle another building
project, but you are likely to be able to rebuild or fix
most anything short of totalling the plane. Bent landing
gear? replace it. Smashed a wing? replace it. Twist
your tail when a door flies off? Build a new tail and attach it.
None of those things are worth totalling a plane for if you
built it yourself and the insurance company buys the parts.
Not sure what your quote was for, what your number of
pilot hours and ratings are, or any of that, but first year
quotes are usually eye openers....$3500-4500 isn't uncommon.
Get 300 hours (especially in type) and an instrument rating
and you'll likely be well under $2500 in todays climate.
Some are more like $1700.
I actually consider most aircraft insurance to be somewhat
of a bargain. I can insure a piper cherokee 140 for less
than my car, and the insurance price scales up by hull
value fairly linearly. So for the dollar value that I
insure my RV-10 for, I'm really getting it for cheaper
than I pay for my car. Now, I'm about to add my daughter
on to my RV-14 for her solo...that may throw it out of
whack, but when it's me on the policy, it's a good deal.
Tim
On 5/11/2017 8:58 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
> So I got my first insurance quote back today and it was from Falcon. I
> hit the floor when I saw it.
>
> The quote I requested was for $225K Hull, $1M liability, Sub-Limit $100K
> per passenger.
>
> My question is about insuring vs under-insuring. Knowing that I'm not
> going to build another one of these things, if I put it in the field,
> I'm buying something next time around. So it might be a Bonanza or
> something else. Anyway, it would be something that wouldn't cost what
> I have in the -10.
>
> I could drop hull coverage down to $140K or so and still be able to buy
> a decent airplane and just decide that losing everything beyond that (in
> my build) I can live with.
>
> But what are the disadvantages of under insuring the hull value?
>
> Curious to hear what others have done.
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
Message 5
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My first quote was $4500 for a hull value of 200K. I think about it as insurance
for myself not the airplane.
If you are properly insured you have it wired in your brain that if something happens
the plane is owned by the insurance company and you are just trying to
pick the best outcome for yourself. To me that state of mind is worth the crazy
price. It gets way better next year.
Congrats on finishing it!
Lenny
philperry9 wrote:
> So I got my first insurance quote back today and it was from Falcon. I hit the
floor when I saw it.
>
> The quote I requested was for $225K Hull, $1M liability, Sub-Limit $100K per
passenger.
>
>
> My question is about insuring vs under-insuring. Knowing that I'm not going
to build another one of these things, if I put it in the field, I'm buying something
next time around. So it might be a Bonanza or something else. Anyway,
it would be something that wouldn't cost what I have in the -10.
>
>
> I could drop hull coverage down to $140K or so and still be able to buy a decent
airplane and just decide that losing everything beyond that (in my build)
I can live with.
>
>
> But what are the disadvantages of under insuring the hull value?
>
>
> Curious to hear what others have done.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469217#469217
Message 6
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I would agree. While one may not want to do a second build, keeping in
mind what you can buy on the market that is close to a replacement, or
maybe finding a 90% done kit that you can finish the way you want it, in
maybe a year or less. I insured for $175K, and with around 1900 TT,
instrument, commercial, multi ratings (grandfathered tailwheel, complex
and HP) got quote somewhere around 2200-2300. I expect to get better
coverage for equal or less money on this year's renewal, as I will have
100+ in type and 100 on airframe.
On 5/11/2017 7:22 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
> It used to be easy to sell them for that price, but now it's
> a bunch harder. Maybe there's a happy medium and the hull
> value is $175-200k? Add up your avionics, engine, airframe,
> and some additional supplies, and see what it really cost.
> I'm not an insurance expert but I can tell you that if you
> under insure, you can lose big, and every article I've ever
> read about over-insuring points out ways that it can be very
> bad as well. So I would try to be as accurate as possible and
> consider the market value of the plane. Don't try to squeeze
> dollars of your hard work out of it.
Message 7
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Can I ask what you were quoted Alan
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 11, 2017, at 10:12 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
>
> It depends on what you want to protect, and whether you want to risk the insurance
considering your aircraft "totaled" where it really wouldn't be if insured
for the market value. Generally, insurance guidelines for a "total" are around
60-65% of the insured value, because they are looking at salvage value, etc.
> I considered what the kit, engine, avionics, etc. cost me, with no value put
on my time and labor, to come up with what I wanted to insure for.
> Hull coverage is generally a percentage of stated value, adjusted for risk evaluation
of pilot(s). So my RV-10, that is worth around 4 times what my previous
Mooney was, cost me about $600 a year more to insure than the Mooney did, even
though the risks to the RV are somewhat less, given fixed gear vs retract.
Most older retracts are totaled if they have a gear up, due to cost of prop replacement
and engine teardown. Usually cost to repair airframe isn't that bad.
>
> Also keep in mind that usually there are limitations on coverage for the first
5 or 10 hours, and that rates likely will come down after you and the plane
have 100 hours.
>
>> On 5/11/2017 6:58 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>> So I got my first insurance quote back today and it was from Falcon. I hit
the floor when I saw it.
>> The quote I requested was for $225K Hull, $1M liability, Sub-Limit $100K per
passenger.
>> My question is about insuring vs under-insuring. Knowing that I'm not going
to build another one of these things, if I put it in the field, I'm buying something
next time around. So it might be a Bonanza or something else. Anyway,
it would be something that wouldn't cost what I have in the -10.
>> I could drop hull coverage down to $140K or so and still be able to buy a decent
airplane and just decide that losing everything beyond that (in my build)
I can live with.
>> But what are the disadvantages of under insuring the hull value?
>> Curious to hear what others have done.
>> Thanks,
>> Phil
>
>
>
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