Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:14 AM - Re: Re: Fuel selector valve (Werner Schneider)
2. 06:41 AM - Van's builders in the news (Kelly McMullen)
3. 06:52 AM - Re: Fuel line testing (rvdave)
4. 07:05 AM - Re: Re: Fuel line testing (Phillip Perry)
5. 07:41 AM - Re: Van's builders in the news (Phil Yoder)
6. 08:04 AM - Re: Re: Fuel selector valve (Rene)
7. 08:23 AM - Re: Van's builders in the news (Bob Leffler)
8. 08:36 AM - Re: Van's builders in the news (Kelly McMullen)
9. 08:44 AM - Re: Fuel line testing (rvdave)
10. 09:12 AM - Re: Re: Fuel line testing (Phillip Perry)
11. 03:25 PM - Re: Fuel line testing (rvdave)
12. 03:56 PM - Re: Re: Fuel line testing (Phillip Perry)
13. 03:59 PM - Re: Van's builders in the news (Ralph E. Capen)
14. 04:19 PM - Re: Fuel line testing (rvdave)
15. 04:54 PM - Re: Re: Fuel line testing (Phillip Perry)
16. 05:02 PM - Re: Fuel line testing (rvdave)
17. 06:11 PM - Re: Re: Fuel line testing (Kelly McMullen)
18. 07:24 PM - Re: Re: Fuel line testing (Phillip Perry)
19. 09:15 PM - Re: Re: Fuel line testing (Kelly McMullen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel selector valve |
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Van's builders in the news |
Always good to see folks I am acquainted with through various forums in the
news, in this case for obtaining alternate methods of compliance (AMOC)
with regard to the NavWorx AD:
"The AMOCs were obtained by three individual aircraft owners. *Bob Leffler
*
of Columbus, Ohio, requested an AMOC for the Garmin GTN 650 and GTN 750
series of GPS navigators, and has become a spokesman for the group; *Ralph
Capen* sought an AMOC for the Garmin GNS 430W and GNS 530W series, and *Phi
l
Yoder* for the Garmin GNS 480. =9CRalph and I submitted our AMOCs
independently before we knew each other,=9D Leffler said. They met th
rough
the Van=99s Air Force online forum. =9CPhil joined in later bec
ause he=99s a
friend, and has the 480.
=9CI had never heard of an AMOC before,=9D Leffler continued.
=9CIt was clearly
synergistic once we all knew about each other. But it wasn=99t rocket
science.=9D He and Capen simply picked up their phones and called the
guy
whose name was at the bottom of the AD=99s final rule
<https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2017-06-06/pdf/2017-11625.pdf>. Leffler
said the FAA was very helpful in guiding the three owners through the AMOC
process."
Extracted from the weekly AOPA news email.
Kelly
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel line testing |
""One thing I'd mention is that me fuel valve is going to leak by in the body between
your right and left tanks. When it's flowing fuel and operating near neutral
pressures, it will seal up. But when you put pressure (or vacuum on it)
it will leak by the seals/o-rings internally. Took me a while to figure that out"".
Ok, so I'm pressurizing at the wing root, capped before going into fuel servo,
have the afp purge valve outlet plugged and I am showing a leak / won't hold pressure,
but can't find any fittings leaking with bubble test. Could my stock
fuel valve be leaking ? Even if it was all outlets are capped so should hold
pressure? Puzzled
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472612#472612
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel line testing |
Lol. You're right where I was when I tried it too. Head scratching.
Are you capped at both tanks?
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 8, 2017, at 8:51 AM, rvdave <rv610dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> ""One thing I'd mention is that me fuel valve is going to leak by in the body
between your right and left tanks. When it's flowing fuel and operating near
neutral pressures, it will seal up. But when you put pressure (or vacuum on it)
it will leak by the seals/o-rings internally. Took me a while to figure that
out"".
>
> Ok, so I'm pressurizing at the wing root, capped before going into fuel servo,
have the afp purge valve outlet plugged and I am showing a leak / won't hold
pressure, but can't find any fittings leaking with bubble test. Could my stock
fuel valve be leaking ? Even if it was all outlets are capped so should hold
pressure? Puzzled
>
> --------
> Dave Ford
> RV6 for sale
> RV10 building
> Cadillac, MI
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472612#472612
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Van's builders in the news |
If I can be of any help, please let me know.
Phil
On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 6:48 AM Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
> Always good to see folks I am acquainted with through various forums in
> the news, in this case for obtaining alternate methods of compliance (AMO
C)
> with regard to the NavWorx AD:
> "The AMOCs were obtained by three individual aircraft owners. *Bob
> Leffler * of Columbus, Ohio, requested an AMOC for the Garmin GTN 650 and
> GTN 750 series of GPS navigators, and has become a spokesman for the grou
p; *Ralph
> Capen* sought an AMOC for the Garmin GNS 430W and GNS 530W series, and *P
hil
> Yoder* for the Garmin GNS 480. =9CRalph and I submitted our AMOCs
> independently before we knew each other,=9D Leffler said. They met
through
> the Van=99s Air Force online forum. =9CPhil joined in later b
ecause he=99s a
> friend, and has the 480.
>
> =9CI had never heard of an AMOC before,=9D Leffler continued.
=9CIt was clearly
> synergistic once we all knew about each other. But it wasn=99t rock
et
> science.=9D He and Capen simply picked up their phones and called t
he guy
> whose name was at the bottom of the AD=99s final rule
> <https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2017-06-06/pdf/2017-11625.pdf>. Leffler
> said the FAA was very helpful in guiding the three owners through the AMO
C
> process."
> Extracted from the weekly AOPA news email.
> Kelly
>
--
Phil Yoder phil@philyoder.com \__________o-( )-o__________/
www.itsnotthatcomplex.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel selector valve |
Don't know for sure, but I think after a lot of work in phase 1 in 2008 I have
the system sealed very well. I have run a tank dry and also un-ported a tank
doing slips. In both cases great response from changing tanks or just coming
out of the slip. In the case of running the tank dry I also used Aux pump, but
with the slip it recovered before I even hit the pump.
Vapor lock has been a concern for me because of the heat in the tunnel and does
add to my desire to change it if I ever do this again. I have a friend who has
asked me to help with his RV-10 Quickbuild........so I have been going back
through the list of possible mods again.
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2017 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel selector valve
If you have no air/vapor in the system, no leaks, etc. then yes siphon is no big
deal. Is that the real world in your airplane if you run one tank dry, or your
connections are imperfect?
Will your fuel not vaporize when suction is applied to it? At 130 degrees runway
temperature? Ever tried to start a siphon with mouth suction? The amount of
rise definitely makes a difference.
On 9/7/2017 3:08 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
>
> rene(at)felker.com wrote:
>> 1. If I remember HS physics (70's for me), the rise and drop of the line will
not really affect how much suction is needed to pull the fuel except to overcome
the friction of the longer line. Don't think it matters either way and
I am just saying this because it interest me. I do think limiting the number
of fuel connections and length of fuel lines has its positive safety benefits.
>> 2. I have mine in stock location. I was kit 322 and did that part of the build
in 2006 I think, early builder. I have had no problems with the valve.
But if I was doing that part of the build again, I would go with the Andair valve.
Having it lower in the tunnel would help with the aft heat duct routing
also. I think it is a much nicer valve.
>>
>> Rene'
>> 801-721-6080
>>
>> --
>
>
> 1. You're right; in fact, no suction is needed at all, since the pump/filter
are lower than the tank. If you open the line at the filter, gas will just run
out. However, the pressure is lower, the higher you go. (If you put the valve
up 25 feet (!) the pressure would drop to zero and no fuel would flow, no matter
how hard the pump pulled. At the elevated valve, pressure will be a bit lower,
providing more opportunity for the fuel to vaporize if conditions are right
(or should I say 'wrong'?).
> 2. Since about mid-2008 the stock valve is located in a slightly (4") lower location
than previously, slightly lessening the pressure drop, but also allowing
for more room to get the heater SCAT tubing thru there.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472591#472591
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Van's builders in the news |
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Van's builders in the news |
I have mentioned to someone else that there is an RV-10 partial build
for sale at KCHD (Chandler, AZ). I only have email contact, don't know
how responsive seller is, and I know it was not built looking for
airshow awards. I will send Phil a PM.
You never know what ratty, barely flying homebuilt is going to park next
to your shiny, fancy -10 at homebuilt camping. 8^)
On 9/8/2017 8:17 AM, Bob Leffler wrote:
> You never know what riftraff you may end camping next to at OSH.
>
>
> BTW, Phil is about to join the ranks of us RV-10 builders. He's been
> looking at some used projects to buy. If you know any, please let him
> know.
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel line testing |
Yes capped before entering tanks at wing root. I have a tee on right line forward
to purge valve. Introducing air at right wing root. AFP pump after fuel
valve, capped line at exit of purge valve, capped line at entrance line before
servo. Funny thing is sometimes it appears to be a fast leak down and other
times a slow leak down. Your explanation of fuel valve makes sense but can't
prove it yet. No leak at stem of valve or nut of valve. Maybe afp pump or mech
pump leak ? Still looking.
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472625#472625
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel line testing |
I think you're on the right track. Checking me stem on the valve and bypass valve
is a good idea.
Also checking the two pumps and the body seams on them might be good too.
Not sure about the PSI sensor, but it might have something goofy going on there
too.
I found that it was impossible to test the entire system, but broke it down and
had to check each leg from the fuel valve in segments.
I could prove the left side was tight. The right side was tight. The forward
part was tight (capped at the inlet of the mechanical fuel pump).
When you put it all together the results were inconsistent. Using my hand vacuum
pump and gauge, I was able to determine that it didn't take much more than
2-3 inches of suction to suck open the o-rings/seals inside the valve. At 5 it
was really moving fuel.
That valve has isn't really designed to have pressures on it, it's just designed
to provide a path from the tank forward.
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 8, 2017, at 10:43 AM, rvdave <rv610dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Yes capped before entering tanks at wing root. I have a tee on right line forward
to purge valve. Introducing air at right wing root. AFP pump after fuel
valve, capped line at exit of purge valve, capped line at entrance line before
servo. Funny thing is sometimes it appears to be a fast leak down and other
times a slow leak down. Your explanation of fuel valve makes sense but can't
prove it yet. No leak at stem of valve or nut of valve. Maybe afp pump or
mech pump leak ? Still looking.
>
> --------
> Dave Ford
> RV6 for sale
> RV10 building
> Cadillac, MI
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472625#472625
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel line testing |
I have confirmed that the leak/pressure drop is isolated to the afp purge valve
itself so I'm not sure how tight this is suppose to be internally. Seems like
in ico position there should be no flow to spider but maybe it reacts differently
to fuel rather than air?
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472670#472670
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel line testing |
How much pressure are you putting on the line?
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 8, 2017, at 5:24 PM, rvdave <rv610dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I have confirmed that the leak/pressure drop is isolated to the afp purge valve
itself so I'm not sure how tight this is suppose to be internally. Seems like
in ico position there should be no flow to spider but maybe it reacts differently
to fuel rather than air?
>
> --------
> Dave Ford
> RV6 for sale
> RV10 building
> Cadillac, MI
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472670#472670
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Van's builders in the news |
Thanks for the shout-out.
I'm also available to assist in connection settings as well as communicating with
the local FSDO...done that as well. I'm fully legal past the Jan and 2020
deadlines.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly McMullen
Sent: Sep 8, 2017 9:40 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Van's builders in the news
Always good to see folks I am acquainted with through various forums in the news,
in this case for obtaining alternate methods of compliance (AMOC) with regard
to the NavWorx AD:"The AMOCs were obtained by three individual aircraft owners.
Bob Leffler
of Columbus, Ohio, requested an AMOC for the Garmin GTN 650 and GTN 750
series of GPS navigators, and has become a spokesman for the group;
Ralph Capen sought an AMOC for the Garmin GNS 430W and GNS 530W series,
and Phil Yoder for the Garmin GNS 480. Ralph and I submitted our AMOCs
independently before we knew each other, Leffler said. They met through
the Vans Air Force online forum. Phil joined in later because hes a
friend, and has the 480.
I had never heard of an AMOC before, Leffler continued. It was
clearly synergistic once we all knew about each other. But it wasnt
rocket science. He and Capen simply picked up their phones and called
the guy whose name was at the bottom of the ADs final rule. Leffler said the FAA
was very helpful in guiding the three owners through the AMOC process."Extracted
from the weekly AOPA news email.Kelly
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel line testing |
50 psi
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472675#472675
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel line testing |
Yeah that's way too much. That valve is basically a hole that rotates around inside
a cylinder and is sealed with o-rings. 50 psi will push those o-rings
right out of the way.
I don't recall what the psi is forward of the servo, but I seem to recall its very
low. The spider (iirc) operates with a series of check valves that are normally
closed and they only open when the cylinder on the intake stroke sucks
them open. Then they close. That way fuel can be kept at the spider but
it's sucked into the proper cylinder. I might be over simplifying that, and others
can correct me. But that's how I seem to recall it working.
So 50 psi on the back side of the spider would just spray fuel down all the lines
at the same time. So it pretty sure 50psi is way too high.
Try dialing it down to something like 2 lbs (if you can) and see what you get.
I suspect you will find that the leak stops once you get down to a lower pressure.
If you can't do that, try putting your thumb over one side, sucking a vacuum through
it, and plugging it with your tongue to see if it holds.
You can generate enough suction to suck open the o-rings with your mouth. But
you can prove it seals.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 8, 2017, at 6:18 PM, rvdave <rv610dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> 50 psi
>
> --------
> Dave Ford
> RV6 for sale
> RV10 building
> Cadillac, MI
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472675#472675
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel line testing |
Thanks for the info, that's probably why I saw a variance in the bleed down, I'll
try lower pressure and see how that goes tomorrow.
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472677#472677
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel line testing |
The input to the fuel servo is 15-30 psi. The output to the fuel flow
divider is somewhere between 5 and 10 psi. When the fuel pressure drops
below 4 psi there is a valve in the flow divider that closes to enable
full idle cutoff. The intake valve opening has nothing to do with the
delivery of fuel to the injector. Our injectors are continuous flow, and
all that varies is the amount of fuel delivered. The fuel pressure the
servo delivers to the flow divider determines the rate of fuel delivered
to the intake manifold. The injector nozzle atomizes the fuel, which
then hopefully vaporizes for uniform delivery into the cylinder.
Certainly the purge valve should withstand up to 15 psi of fuel
pressure. Air pressure is a different animal. If the purge valve doesn't
leak with the engine running, it isn't the problem. You could fasten a
paper towel around the valve outlet, then don't purge at shut down. If
there are any fuel stains on the paper towel, it leaks.
On 9/8/2017 4:52 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
> Yeah that's way too much. That valve is basically a hole that rotates around
inside a cylinder and is sealed with o-rings. 50 psi will push those o-rings
right out of the way.
>
> I don't recall what the psi is forward of the servo, but I seem to recall its
very low. The spider (iirc) operates with a series of check valves that are
normally closed and they only open when the cylinder on the intake stroke sucks
them open. Then they close. That way fuel can be kept at the spider but
it's sucked into the proper cylinder. I might be over simplifying that, and
others can correct me. But that's how I seem to recall it working.
>
> So 50 psi on the back side of the spider would just spray fuel down all the lines
at the same time. So it pretty sure 50psi is way too high.
>
> Try dialing it down to something like 2 lbs (if you can) and see what you get.
I suspect you will find that the leak stops once you get down to a lower
pressure.
>
> If you can't do that, try putting your thumb over one side, sucking a vacuum
through it, and plugging it with your tongue to see if it holds.
>
> You can generate enough suction to suck open the o-rings with your mouth. But
you can prove it seals.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Sep 8, 2017, at 6:18 PM, rvdave <rv610dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> 50 psi
>>
>> --------
>> Dave Ford
>> RV6 for sale
>> RV10 building
>> Cadillac, MI
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472675#472675
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel line testing |
Back at the house where I can check the AFP flow divider manual. It
doesn't sound like there's much pressure on the spider (or valve) from
their description. I scanned for an exact number, but 1.75-3 PSI is the
best I could find.
Needless to say, I'd check with with a much smaller amount of pressure.
Is the engine running or is this still in a new build? If it's a new
build, I'd just check what you can check and work on the assumptions that
the valves are behaving as designed until they really do exhibit a problem
and warrant going down the rabbit hole of diagnosing a leak that may not
exist.
Phil
FLOW DIVIDER
1-7. Metered fuel is delivered from the fuel controller to the flow
divider. It's purpose is to divide the metered fuel equally to each
injection nozzle at idle regardless of their height between each other. At
idle, nozzle back pressure is typically 1-5 inches of gas pressure, if
there is a difference in height between the nozzles then idle flow will
tend to flow out the lowest nozzles. Metered fuel pressure enters the flow
divider through a channel that permits fuel to pass through the I.D. of the
flow divider spool valve. At idle the fuel pressure from the fuel
controller must build up to overcome the spring force applied to the
diaphragm and spool valve. This moves the spool valve upward to allow fuel
to pass through the calibrated slots in the bottom of the flow divider
bushing. Since the fuel controller meters and delivers a fixed amount of
fuel to the flow divider, the spool valve will only open as far as
necessary to pass the amount of fuel to the nozzles. Since it takes
approximately 1.75-3 PSI pressure to open the spool valve, the fuel will
accurately be divided between the nozzles if there is a difference in
height between them of 70 inches. At idle the nozzle discharge pressure is
negligible, the opening of the spool valve to the slots is very small, and
thus the fuel is divided for the individual cylinders at this point by the
flow divider. The flow divider also keeps the metered fuel under pressure
and shuts off the individual nozzle ports when the fuel controller is
placed in "idle cutoff".
On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
> The input to the fuel servo is 15-30 psi. The output to the fuel flow
> divider is somewhere between 5 and 10 psi. When the fuel pressure drops
> below 4 psi there is a valve in the flow divider that closes to enable full
> idle cutoff. The intake valve opening has nothing to do with the delivery
> of fuel to the injector. Our injectors are continuous flow, and all that
> varies is the amount of fuel delivered. The fuel pressure the servo
> delivers to the flow divider determines the rate of fuel delivered to the
> intake manifold. The injector nozzle atomizes the fuel, which then
> hopefully vaporizes for uniform delivery into the cylinder.
> Certainly the purge valve should withstand up to 15 psi of fuel pressure.
> Air pressure is a different animal. If the purge valve doesn't leak with
> the engine running, it isn't the problem. You could fasten a paper towel
> around the valve outlet, then don't purge at shut down. If there are any
> fuel stains on the paper towel, it leaks.
>
> On 9/8/2017 4:52 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
>>
>> Yeah that's way too much. That valve is basically a hole that rotates
>> around inside a cylinder and is sealed with o-rings. 50 psi will push
>> those o-rings right out of the way.
>>
>> I don't recall what the psi is forward of the servo, but I seem to recall
>> its very low. The spider (iirc) operates with a series of check valves
>> that are normally closed and they only open when the cylinder on the intake
>> stroke sucks them open. Then they close. That way fuel can be kept at
>> the spider but it's sucked into the proper cylinder. I might be over
>> simplifying that, and others can correct me. But that's how I seem to
>> recall it working.
>>
>> So 50 psi on the back side of the spider would just spray fuel down all
>> the lines at the same time. So it pretty sure 50psi is way too high.
>>
>> Try dialing it down to something like 2 lbs (if you can) and see what you
>> get. I suspect you will find that the leak stops once you get down to a
>> lower pressure.
>>
>> If you can't do that, try putting your thumb over one side, sucking a
>> vacuum through it, and plugging it with your tongue to see if it holds.
>>
>> You can generate enough suction to suck open the o-rings with your
>> mouth. But you can prove it seals.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Sep 8, 2017, at 6:18 PM, rvdave <rv610dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 50 psi
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Dave Ford
>>> RV6 for sale
>>> RV10 building
>>> Cadillac, MI
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472675#472675
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel line testing |
Phil,
The pressures discussed above are for engine idle and idle cutoff. They are
significantly higher when you are using substantial power. They are saying
the spool valve is likely to close at anything less than 3 psi to achieve
idle cutoff.
-sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm
On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 7:22 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
> Back at the house where I can check the AFP flow divider manual. It
> doesn't sound like there's much pressure on the spider (or valve) from
> their description. I scanned for an exact number, but 1.75-3 PSI is the
> best I could find.
>
> Needless to say, I'd check with with a much smaller amount of pressure.
>
> Is the engine running or is this still in a new build? If it's a new
> build, I'd just check what you can check and work on the assumptions that
> the valves are behaving as designed until they really do exhibit a problem
> and warrant going down the rabbit hole of diagnosing a leak that may not
> exist.
>
> Phil
>
>
> FLOW DIVIDER
>
> 1-7. Metered fuel is delivered from the fuel controller to the flow
> divider. It's purpose is to divide the metered fuel equally to each
> injection nozzle at idle regardless of their height between each other. At
> idle, nozzle back pressure is typically 1-5 inches of gas pressure, if
> there is a difference in height between the nozzles then idle flow will
> tend to flow out the lowest nozzles. Metered fuel pressure enters the flow
> divider through a channel that permits fuel to pass through the I.D. of the
> flow divider spool valve. At idle the fuel pressure from the fuel
> controller must build up to overcome the spring force applied to the
> diaphragm and spool valve. This moves the spool valve upward to allow fuel
> to pass through the calibrated slots in the bottom of the flow divider
> bushing. Since the fuel controller meters and delivers a fixed amount of
> fuel to the flow divider, the spool valve will only open as far as
> necessary to pass the amount of fuel to the nozzles. Since it takes
> approximately 1.75-3 PSI pressure to open the spool valve, the fuel will
> accurately be divided between the nozzles if there is a difference in
> height between them of 70 inches. At idle the nozzle discharge pressure is
> negligible, the opening of the spool valve to the slots is very small, and
> thus the fuel is divided for the individual cylinders at this point by the
> flow divider. The flow divider also keeps the metered fuel under pressure
> and shuts off the individual nozzle ports when the fuel controller is
> placed in "idle cutoff".
>
> On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> The input to the fuel servo is 15-30 psi. The output to the fuel flow
>> divider is somewhere between 5 and 10 psi. When the fuel pressure drops
>> below 4 psi there is a valve in the flow divider that closes to enable full
>> idle cutoff. The intake valve opening has nothing to do with the delivery
>> of fuel to the injector. Our injectors are continuous flow, and all that
>> varies is the amount of fuel delivered. The fuel pressure the servo
>> delivers to the flow divider determines the rate of fuel delivered to the
>> intake manifold. The injector nozzle atomizes the fuel, which then
>> hopefully vaporizes for uniform delivery into the cylinder.
>> Certainly the purge valve should withstand up to 15 psi of fuel pressure.
>> Air pressure is a different animal. If the purge valve doesn't leak with
>> the engine running, it isn't the problem. You could fasten a paper towel
>> around the valve outlet, then don't purge at shut down. If there are any
>> fuel stains on the paper towel, it leaks.
>>
>> On 9/8/2017 4:52 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Yeah that's way too much. That valve is basically a hole that rotates
>>> around inside a cylinder and is sealed with o-rings. 50 psi will push
>>> those o-rings right out of the way.
>>>
>>> I don't recall what the psi is forward of the servo, but I seem to
>>> recall its very low. The spider (iirc) operates with a series of check
>>> valves that are normally closed and they only open when the cylinder on the
>>> intake stroke sucks them open. Then they close. That way fuel can be
>>> kept at the spider but it's sucked into the proper cylinder. I might be
>>> over simplifying that, and others can correct me. But that's how I seem
>>> to recall it working.
>>>
>>> So 50 psi on the back side of the spider would just spray fuel down all
>>> the lines at the same time. So it pretty sure 50psi is way too high.
>>>
>>> Try dialing it down to something like 2 lbs (if you can) and see what
>>> you get. I suspect you will find that the leak stops once you get down
>>> to a lower pressure.
>>>
>>> If you can't do that, try putting your thumb over one side, sucking a
>>> vacuum through it, and plugging it with your tongue to see if it holds.
>>>
>>> You can generate enough suction to suck open the o-rings with your
>>> mouth. But you can prove it seals.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Sep 8, 2017, at 6:18 PM, rvdave <rv610dave@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 50 psi
>>>>
>>>> --------
>>>> Dave Ford
>>>> RV6 for sale
>>>> RV10 building
>>>> Cadillac, MI
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472675#472675
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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