Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:28 AM - Grounding question (Kent Ogden)
2. 08:36 AM - Bose Headsets Available (David Saylor)
3. 08:37 AM - Re: Grounding question (Shannon Hicks)
4. 08:43 AM - Re: Grounding question (Phillip Perry)
5. 08:52 AM - Re: Grounding question (David Saylor)
6. 08:59 AM - Re: Grounding question (Tim Olson)
7. 09:37 AM - Re: Grounding question (Lenny Iszak)
8. 09:48 AM - Re: Grounding question (Tcwtech)
9. 10:09 AM - Navworx (Sheldon Olesen)
10. 10:14 AM - Navworx (Sheldon Olesen)
11. 10:23 AM - Navworx (Sheldon Olesen)
12. 10:34 AM - Re: Navworx (Phil Yoder)
13. 10:36 AM - Re: Navworx (Bob Leffler)
14. 10:43 AM - Navworx (Sheldon Olesen)
15. 10:50 AM - Re: Navworx (John Miller)
16. 11:21 AM - Navworx (Sheldon Olesen)
17. 12:26 PM - Navworx (Sheldon Olesen)
18. 01:30 PM - Navworx (Sheldon Olesen)
19. 02:09 PM - Re: Grounding question (Kelly McMullen)
20. 02:35 PM - Navworx (Sheldon Olesen)
21. 02:39 PM - Re: Grounding question (Bob Turner)
22. 03:10 PM - Re: Re: Grounding question (Phillip Perry)
23. 04:26 PM - Re: Grounding question (Sean Stephens)
24. 04:53 PM - Re: Grounding question (Phillip Perry)
25. 04:54 PM - Re: Re: Grounding question (Kelly McMullen)
26. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: Grounding question (Phillip Perry)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Grounding question |
All,
I have a question/concern regarding a ground return to the battery. I
have primed all my parts and skins with the Akzo Nobel 2 part primer,
which is awesome stuff though it's a smelly pain to work with. All skin
overlaps have been primed on both sides of the overlap, and this stuff is
not conductive at all so the only electrical path is through the rivets
and the small area of the rivet hole that doesn't always have primer
covering it. On the outside of the plane the rivet heads have contact
directly with the unprimed skin so it's really the inside skin where there
is minimal area in electrical contact.
I am concerned that using the skin as a ground return to the battery may
not provide an excellent ground path, especially for the large currents
needed for engine cranking. I would really rather not have to run another
heavy wire to the front of the airplane for ground, but I will if
necessary.
Has anyone else faced this issue and had a problem (or no problem) using
the skin as a ground return? Also, where/how have people connected the
battery ground to the tailcone skin, do you use a piece of brass or copper
buss bar riveted to the bottom skin or something like that?
Thanks for any suggestions!
Kent Ogden
#40710 ultra slow-build :)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Bose Headsets Available |
If anyone's interested in a couple Bose headsets (for the backseaters
maybe?) I have an ad on Barnstormers. --Dave
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding question |
I used a forest of tabs mounted to my firewall with a #2 (I think) cable
run from there all the way back to the battery ground in the tailcone. I'm
not sure if it was overkill, but I have had zero issues so far.
I think the plans ground path is through the skin to the battery tray where
you ground the battery.
http://www.bandc.aero/grounding-supplies-battery-cables.aspx
Shannon
On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Kent Ogden <ogdenk@upstate.edu> wrote:
> All,
>
> I have a question/concern regarding a ground return to the battery. I
> have primed all my parts and skins with the Akzo Nobel 2 part primer, which
> is awesome stuff though it's a smelly pain to work with. All skin overlaps
> have been primed on both sides of the overlap, and this stuff is not
> conductive at all so the only electrical path is through the rivets and the
> small area of the rivet hole that doesn't always have primer covering it.
> On the outside of the plane the rivet heads have contact directly with the
> unprimed skin so it's really the inside skin where there is minimal area in
> electrical contact.
>
> I am concerned that using the skin as a ground return to the battery may
> not provide an excellent ground path, especially for the large currents
> needed for engine cranking. I would really rather not have to run another
> heavy wire to the front of the airplane for ground, but I will if necessary.
>
> Has anyone else faced this issue and had a problem (or no problem) using
> the skin as a ground return? Also, where/how have people connected the
> battery ground to the tailcone skin, do you use a piece of brass or copper
> buss bar riveted to the bottom skin or something like that?
>
> Thanks for any suggestions!
>
> Kent Ogden
> #40710 ultra slow-build :)
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding question |
Ditto
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 19, 2017, at 10:35 AM, Shannon Hicks <civeng123@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I used a forest of tabs mounted to my firewall with a #2 (I think) cable r
un from there all the way back to the battery ground in the tailcone. I'm n
ot sure if it was overkill, but I have had zero issues so far.
>
> I think the plans ground path is through the skin to the battery tray wher
e you ground the battery.
>
> http://www.bandc.aero/grounding-supplies-battery-cables.aspx
>
> Shannon
>
>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Kent Ogden <ogdenk@upstate.edu> wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> I have a question/concern regarding a ground return to the battery. I ha
ve primed all my parts and skins with the Akzo Nobel 2 part primer, which is
awesome stuff though it's a smelly pain to work with. All skin overlaps ha
ve been primed on both sides of the overlap, and this stuff is not conductiv
e at all so the only electrical path is through the rivets and the small are
a of the rivet hole that doesn't always have primer covering it. On the out
side of the plane the rivet heads have contact directly with the unprimed sk
in so it's really the inside skin where there is minimal area in electrical c
ontact.
>>
>> I am concerned that using the skin as a ground return to the battery may n
ot provide an excellent ground path, especially for the large currents neede
d for engine cranking. I would really rather not have to run another heavy w
ire to the front of the airplane for ground, but I will if necessary.
>>
>> Has anyone else faced this issue and had a problem (or no problem) using t
he skin as a ground return? Also, where/how have people connected the batte
ry ground to the tailcone skin, do you use a piece of brass or copper buss b
ar riveted to the bottom skin or something like that?
>>
>> Thanks for any suggestions!
>>
>> Kent Ogden
>> #40710 ultra slow-build :)
>>
>>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding question |
Kent,
There are so many rivets making metal-on-metal contact that I can't imagine
there'd be any problem, even with primed skins.
If you want a more of a one-piece conductor, you could use one of the long
stringers as a return with a flexible conductor on each end.
I like braided ground straps
<http://smile.amazon.com/ACDelco-EGS8-Professional-Engine-Ground/dp/B0016HPX4O/ref=sr_1_1?srs=16926415011&ie=UTF8&qid=1508427886&sr=8-1&keywords=ground+strap#Ask>.
Mine is bolted to a vertical member of the baggage floor just forward of
the battery.
--Dave
On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Kent Ogden <ogdenk@upstate.edu> wrote:
> All,
>
> I have a question/concern regarding a ground return to the battery. I
> have primed all my parts and skins with the Akzo Nobel 2 part primer, which
> is awesome stuff though it's a smelly pain to work with. All skin overlaps
> have been primed on both sides of the overlap, and this stuff is not
> conductive at all so the only electrical path is through the rivets and the
> small area of the rivet hole that doesn't always have primer covering it.
> On the outside of the plane the rivet heads have contact directly with the
> unprimed skin so it's really the inside skin where there is minimal area in
> electrical contact.
>
> I am concerned that using the skin as a ground return to the battery may
> not provide an excellent ground path, especially for the large currents
> needed for engine cranking. I would really rather not have to run another
> heavy wire to the front of the airplane for ground, but I will if necessary.
>
> Has anyone else faced this issue and had a problem (or no problem) using
> the skin as a ground return? Also, where/how have people connected the
> battery ground to the tailcone skin, do you use a piece of brass or copper
> buss bar riveted to the bottom skin or something like that?
>
> Thanks for any suggestions!
>
> Kent Ogden
> #40710 ultra slow-build :)
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding question |
+1. I ran an independent #2 ground.
That said, with the number of rivets in the airframe I'm sure you'll be
fine as long as you ground to something with a lot of rivets in it.
I just wanted as low a resistance path to my forest of tabs as
possible.
Tim
On 10/19/2017 10:42 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
> Ditto
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 19, 2017, at 10:35 AM, Shannon Hicks <civeng123@gmail.com
> <mailto:civeng123@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> I used a forest of tabs mounted to my firewall with a #2 (I think)
>> cable run from there all the way back to the battery ground in the
>> tailcone. I'm not sure if it was overkill, but I have had zero issues
>> so far.
>>
>> I think the plans ground path is through the skin to the battery tray
>> where you ground the battery.
>>
>> http://www.bandc.aero/grounding-supplies-battery-cables.aspx
>>
>> Shannon
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Kent Ogden <ogdenk@upstate.edu
>> <mailto:ogdenk@upstate.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> All,
>>
>> I have a question/concern regarding a ground return to the
>> battery. I have primed all my parts and skins with the Akzo Nobel
>> 2 part primer, which is awesome stuff though it's a smellypain to
>> work with. All skin overlaps have been primed on both sides of
>> the overlap, and this stuff is not conductive at all so the only
>> electrical path is through the rivets and the small area of the
>> rivet hole that doesn't always have primer covering it. On the
>> outside of the planethe rivet heads have contact directly with
>> the unprimed skin so it's really the inside skin where there is
>> minimal area in electrical contact.
>>
>> I am concerned that using the skin as a ground return to the
>> battery may not provide an excellent ground path, especially for
>> the large currents needed for engine cranking. I would really
>> rather not have to run another heavy wire to the front of the
>> airplane for ground, but I will if necessary.
>>
>> Has anyone else faced this issue and had a problem (or no problem)
>> using the skin as a ground return? Also, where/how have people
>> connected the battery ground to the tailcone skin, do you use a
>> piece of brass or copper buss bar riveted to the bottom skin or
>> something like that?
>>
>> Thanks for any suggestions!
>>
>> Kent Ogden
>> #40710 ultra slow-build :)
>>
>>
>>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding question |
I originally ran a #2 wire to the firewall forest of tabs, then realized how much
it weighs, promptly ripped it all out and grounded the battery to the battery
tray/bellcrank mount (F-1035). It worked out great.
I think its more important that you ground everything else to a single point like
the forest of tabs on the firewall. I have my tail strobe locally grounded
at the end of the tail and it's making a slight audible noise. Everything else
is quiet.
Lenny
> On Oct 19, 2017, at 11:58 AM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
>
>
> +1. I ran an independent #2 ground.
>
> That said, with the number of rivets in the airframe I'm sure you'll be fine
as long as you ground to something with a lot of rivets in it.
> I just wanted as low a resistance path to my forest of tabs as
> possible.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 10/19/2017 10:42 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>> Ditto
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Oct 19, 2017, at 10:35 AM, Shannon Hicks <civeng123@gmail.com <mailto:civeng123@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> I used a forest of tabs mounted to my firewall with a #2 (I think) cable run
from there all the way back to the battery ground in the tailcone. I'm not
sure if it was overkill, but I have had zero issues so far.
>>>
>>> I think the plans ground path is through the skin to the battery tray where
you ground the battery.
>>>
>>> http://www.bandc.aero/grounding-supplies-battery-cables.aspx
>>>
>>> Shannon
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Kent Ogden <ogdenk@upstate.edu <mailto:ogdenk@upstate.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> I have a question/concern regarding a ground return to the
>>> battery. I have primed all my parts and skins with the Akzo Nobel
>>> 2 part primer, which is awesome stuff though it's a smelly pain to
>>> work with. All skin overlaps have been primed on both sides of
>>> the overlap, and this stuff is not conductive at all so the only
>>> electrical path is through the rivets and the small area of the
>>> rivet hole that doesn't always have primer covering it. On the
>>> outside of the plane the rivet heads have contact directly with
>>> the unprimed skin so it's really the inside skin where there is
>>> minimal area in electrical contact.
>>>
>>> I am concerned that using the skin as a ground return to the
>>> battery may not provide an excellent ground path, especially for
>>> the large currents needed for engine cranking. I would really
>>> rather not have to run another heavy wire to the front of the
>>> airplane for ground, but I will if necessary.
>>>
>>> Has anyone else faced this issue and had a problem (or no problem)
>>> using the skin as a ground return? Also, where/how have people
>>> connected the battery ground to the tailcone skin, do you use a
>>> piece of brass or copper buss bar riveted to the bottom skin or
>>> something like that?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any suggestions!
>>>
>>> Kent Ogden
>>> #40710 ultra slow-build :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding question |
I used the same Akzo Noble primer on my RV-10, all skins are primed including both
sides of all lap joints. ( This primer is amazing stuff, does stink like
all heck, but really tough and protective. Weve used this on the eight airplanes
we have built now over more than 20 years now, and can say it has held up
extremely well.)
I did not run a separate #2 wire up to the front. All ground current for the
starter, alternator and engine sensors flows back through the airframe. I
do have a #8 ground wire running from the battery to a ground bus up under the
instrument panel solely for the avionics.
I have absolutely no electrical issues or noise problems in this airplane.
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies, LLC
610-928-3420
> On Oct 19, 2017, at 11:58 AM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
>
>
> +1. I ran an independent #2 ground.
>
> That said, with the number of rivets in the airframe I'm sure you'll be fine
as long as you ground to something with a lot of rivets in it.
> I just wanted as low a resistance path to my forest of tabs as
> possible.
>
> Tim
>
>
>> On 10/19/2017 10:42 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>> Ditto
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Oct 19, 2017, at 10:35 AM, Shannon Hicks <civeng123@gmail.com <mailto:civeng123@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> I used a forest of tabs mounted to my firewall with a #2 (I think) cable run
from there all the way back to the battery ground in the tailcone. I'm not
sure if it was overkill, but I have had zero issues so far.
>>>
>>> I think the plans ground path is through the skin to the battery tray where
you ground the battery.
>>>
>>> http://www.bandc.aero/grounding-supplies-battery-cables.aspx
>>>
>>> Shannon
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Kent Ogden <ogdenk@upstate.edu <mailto:ogdenk@upstate.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> I have a question/concern regarding a ground return to the
>>> battery. I have primed all my parts and skins with the Akzo Nobel
>>> 2 part primer, which is awesome stuff though it's a smelly pain to
>>> work with. All skin overlaps have been primed on both sides of
>>> the overlap, and this stuff is not conductive at all so the only
>>> electrical path is through the rivets and the small area of the
>>> rivet hole that doesn't always have primer covering it. On the
>>> outside of the plane the rivet heads have contact directly with
>>> the unprimed skin so it's really the inside skin where there is
>>> minimal area in electrical contact.
>>>
>>> I am concerned that using the skin as a ground return to the
>>> battery may not provide an excellent ground path, especially for
>>> the large currents needed for engine cranking. I would really
>>> rather not have to run another heavy wire to the front of the
>>> airplane for ground, but I will if necessary.
>>>
>>> Has anyone else faced this issue and had a problem (or no problem)
>>> using the skin as a ground return? Also, where/how have people
>>> connected the battery ground to the tailcone skin, do you use a
>>> piece of brass or copper buss bar riveted to the bottom skin or
>>> something like that?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any suggestions!
>>>
>>> Kent Ogden
>>> #40710 ultra slow-build :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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I checked the Navworx website this morning and they have posted a notice that they
have ceased operations.
I have a GNS 480 that I was planning to use for a position source and was waiting
for the 5.0 software to update the the 600B and make it usable again. Does
anyone have the required software?
Sheldon Olesen
N475PV 888hrs
Sent from my iPad
Message 10
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I checked the Navworx website this morning and they have posted a notice that they
have ceased operations.
I have a GNS 480 that I was planning to use for a position source and was waiting
for the 5.0 software to update the the 600B and make it usable again. Does
anyone have the required software?
Sheldon Olesen
N475PV 888hrs
Sent from my iPad
Message 11
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I checked the Navworx website this morning and they have posted a notice that they
have ceased operations.
I have a GNS 480 that I was planning to use for a position source and was waiting
for the 5.0 software to update the the 600B and make it usable again. Does
anyone have the required software?
Sheldon Olesen
N475PV 888hrs
Sent from my iPad
Message 12
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You don=99t have to have 5.0 software. You can use my AMOC to be tot
ally
legal.
Phil
On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 1:15 PM Sheldon Olesen <saolesen@sirentel.net>
wrote:
>
> I checked the Navworx website this morning and they have posted a notice
> that they have ceased operations.
>
> I have a GNS 480 that I was planning to use for a position source and was
> waiting for the 5.0 software to update the the 600B and make it usable
> again. Does anyone have the required software?
>
> Sheldon Olesen
> N475PV 888hrs
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
> --
Phil Yoder phil@philyoder.com \__________o-( )-o__________/
www.itsnotthatcomplex.com
Message 13
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You can use the 480 AMOC that I worked on with Phil Yoder. That will make
you legal using the current software release with the 480.
The three AMOCs that we created cover the entire certified Garmin GPS famil
y.
The AMOCS can downloaded from AOPA.
The gotcha are bugs, like not being able to send traffic on both display po
rts. That was supposed to be fixed in 5.0.
I've the AMOCs as a stop gap to buy some time and to afford the replacement
solution.
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server@matronic
s.com> on behalf of Sheldon Olesen <saolesen@sirentel.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 1:08:26 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Navworx
I checked the Navworx website this morning and they have posted a notice th
at they have ceased operations.
I have a GNS 480 that I was planning to use for a position source and was w
aiting for the 5.0 software to update the the 600B and make it usable again
. Does anyone have the required software?
Sheldon Olesen
N475PV 888hrs
Sent from my iPad
Message 14
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I checked the Navworx website this morning and they have posted a notice that they
have ceased operations.
I have a GNS 480 that I was planning to use for a position source and was waiting
for the 5.0 software to update the the 600B and make it usable again. Does
anyone have the required software?
Sheldon Olesen
N475PV 888hrs
Sent from my iPad
Message 15
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All I can say is =9CDAMN=9D.
I have been using the EXP version for 2 years now, with all good reports
from the FAA website, and had an order placed with Dallas Avionics for
the add-on gps unit.
I don=99t have a certified gps I can try to tie in, either.
Tim Olsen, any ideas on our Chelton systems?
Pissed is an understatement.
grumpy
N184JM
do not archive
> On Oct 19, 2017, at 12:34 PM, Bob Leffler <bob@thelefflers.com> wrote:
>
> You can use the 480 AMOC that I worked on with Phil Yoder. That will
make you legal using the current software release with the 480.
>
> The three AMOCs that we created cover the entire certified Garmin GPS
family.
>
> The AMOCS can downloaded from AOPA.
>
> The gotcha are bugs, like not being able to send traffic on both
display ports. That was supposed to be fixed in 5.0.
>
> I=99ve the AMOCs as a stop gap to buy some time and to afford
the replacement solution.
>
> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
<owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>> on behalf of Sheldon
Olesen <saolesen@sirentel.net <mailto:saolesen@sirentel.net>>
> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 1:08:26 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Navworx
>
<mailto:saolesen@sirentel.net>>
>
> I checked the Navworx website this morning and they have posted a
notice that they have ceased operations.
>
> I have a GNS 480 that I was planning to use for a position source and
was waiting for the 5.0 software to update the the 600B and make it
usable again. Does anyone have the required software?
>
> Sheldon Olesen
> N475PV 888hrs
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> ==========
> Email Forum -
> -List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
> ==========
> p; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> ums.matronics.com <http://ums.matronics.com/>
> ==========
> p; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> matronics.com <http://matronics.com/>
> ==========
> p; - List Contribution Web Site -
> p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> ==========
Message 16
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I checked the Navworx website this morning and they have posted a notice that they
have ceased operations.
I have a GNS 480 that I was planning to use for a position source and was waiting
for the 5.0 software to update the the 600B and make it usable again. Does
anyone have the required software?
Sheldon Olesen
N475PV 888hrs
Sent from my iPad
Message 17
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I checked the Navworx website this morning and they have posted a notice that they
have ceased operations.
I have a GNS 480 that I was planning to use for a position source and was waiting
for the 5.0 software to update the the 600B and make it usable again. Does
anyone have the required software?
Sheldon Olesen
N475PV 888hrs
Sent from my iPad
Message 18
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I checked the Navworx website this morning and they have posted a notice that they
have ceased operations.
I have a GNS 480 that I was planning to use for a position source and was waiting
for the 5.0 software to update the the 600B and make it usable again. Does
anyone have the required software?
Sheldon Olesen
N475PV 888hrs
Sent from my iPad
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding question |
The airframe has plenty of surface area to carry any amount of current
you will use.
Running a separate cable from the battery to firewall central grounding
point is a totally wasted effort.
Strobes are a bit different animal if you are talking the old capacitive
discharge into a flash tube variety. They do generate noise that is hard
to totally suppress.
LED strobes don't seem to do that.
I have electrical system from battery to VPX system built to plans, with
grounding cable to frame , in front of battery box.
I have LED nav lights and strobes, all grounded locally, along with Vans
landing lights grounded locally.
The central grounding is essential for electronics that amplify noises
such as intercoms, nav coms etc. It is unnecessary for resistive
electrical loads, as they don't generate RF noise.
My previous aircraft was a Mooney that was built with full zinc chromate
primer, mostly non-structural skin, and chrome-moly tube frame, with
battery behind baggage compartment. It was just fine with ground wire to
airframe at battery. Cessna does the same.
On 10/19/2017 9:35 AM, Lenny Iszak wrote:
>
> I originally ran a #2 wire to the firewall forest of tabs, then realized how
much it weighs, promptly ripped it all out and grounded the battery to the battery
tray/bellcrank mount (F-1035). It worked out great.
> R
> I think its more important that you ground everything else to a single point
like the forest of tabs on the firewall. I have my tail strobe locally grounded
at the end of the tail and it's making a slight audible noise. Everything else
is quiet.
>
> Lenny
>
>> On Oct 19, 2017, at 11:58 AM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> +1. I ran an independent #2 ground.
>>
>> That said, with the number of rivets in the airframe I'm sure you'll be fine
as long as you ground to something with a lot of rivets in it.
>> I just wanted as low a resistance path to my forest of tabs as
>> possible.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> On 10/19/2017 10:42 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>>> Ditto
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Oct 19, 2017, at 10:35 AM, Shannon Hicks <civeng123@gmail.com <mailto:civeng123@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> I used a forest of tabs mounted to my firewall with a #2 (I think) cable run
from there all the way back to the battery ground in the tailcone. I'm not
sure if it was overkill, but I have had zero issues so far.
>>>>
>>>> I think the plans ground path is through the skin to the battery tray where
you ground the battery.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bandc.aero/grounding-supplies-battery-cables.aspx
>>>>
>>>> Shannon
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Kent Ogden <ogdenk@upstate.edu <mailto:ogdenk@upstate.edu>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> I have a question/concern regarding a ground return to the
>>>> battery. I have primed all my parts and skins with the Akzo Nobel
>>>> 2 part primer, which is awesome stuff though it's a smelly pain to
>>>> work with. All skin overlaps have been primed on both sides of
>>>> the overlap, and this stuff is not conductive at all so the only
>>>> electrical path is through the rivets and the small area of the
>>>> rivet hole that doesn't always have primer covering it. On the
>>>> outside of the plane the rivet heads have contact directly with
>>>> the unprimed skin so it's really the inside skin where there is
>>>> minimal area in electrical contact.
>>>>
>>>> I am concerned that using the skin as a ground return to the
>>>> battery may not provide an excellent ground path, especially for
>>>> the large currents needed for engine cranking. I would really
>>>> rather not have to run another heavy wire to the front of the
>>>> airplane for ground, but I will if necessary.
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone else faced this issue and had a problem (or no problem)
>>>> using the skin as a ground return? Also, where/how have people
>>>> connected the battery ground to the tailcone skin, do you use a
>>>> piece of brass or copper buss bar riveted to the bottom skin or
>>>> something like that?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any suggestions!
>>>>
>>>> Kent Ogden
>>>> #40710 ultra slow-build :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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I checked the Navworx website this morning and they have posted a notice that they
have ceased operations.
I have a GNS 480 that I was planning to use for a position source and was waiting
for the 5.0 software to update the the 600B and make it usable again. Does
anyone have the required software?
Sheldon Olesen
N475PV 888hrs
Sent from my iPad
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding question |
As others have said, there should be lots of good metal to metal contact with the
rivets - when driven properly, they expand radially against the sides of the
holes. But if it worries you, its easy to measure. Ground the starter locally,
and the same with the negative battery terminal. Run a pair of temporary wires
from these locations to a good milli-volt voltmeter in the cockpit. Clear
the prop area, and engage the starter. What does the voltmeter read?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473693#473693
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding question |
Along that line, its important to remember that the conductivity you get today
may not be e conductivity you see 3, 5, or 10 years down the road. As corrosion
sets in over time, resistance will increase and circuit performance is degrade.
If youre in a highly corrosive environment like those of us along the gulf coast,
its probably a wise investment to run a dedicated grounding wire.
We spend way too much time in this area chasing down grounding problems that are
frequently caused by corrosion. Often times, they get fixed by running a dedicated
ground to whatever device is having problems.
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 19, 2017, at 4:39 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>
>
> As others have said, there should be lots of good metal to metal contact with
the rivets - when driven properly, they expand radially against the sides of
the holes. But if it worries you, its easy to measure. Ground the starter locally,
and the same with the negative battery terminal. Run a pair of temporary
wires from these locations to a good milli-volt voltmeter in the cockpit. Clear
the prop area, and engage the starter. What does the voltmeter read?
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473693#473693
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding question |
Same boat here. No run from forest on firewall back to batt. LED nav
and strobe lights locally grounded. No issues with those. But... I do
have crazy noise when my locally grounded HID landing light ballasts
heat up at first. It subsides once the draw rush is over. Thinking of
swapping out for LED landing lights anyways, but have been unable to
make them quiet.
-Sean #40303
> Kelly McMullen <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>
> October 19, 2017 at 4:08 PM
>
> The airframe has plenty of surface area to carry any amount of current
> you will use.
> Running a separate cable from the battery to firewall central
> grounding point is a totally wasted effort.
> Strobes are a bit different animal if you are talking the old
> capacitive discharge into a flash tube variety. They do generate noise
> that is hard to totally suppress.
> LED strobes don't seem to do that.
> I have electrical system from battery to VPX system built to plans,
> with grounding cable to frame , in front of battery box.
> I have LED nav lights and strobes, all grounded locally, along with
> Vans landing lights grounded locally.
> The central grounding is essential for electronics that amplify noises
> such as intercoms, nav coms etc. It is unnecessary for resistive
> electrical loads, as they don't generate RF noise.
> My previous aircraft was a Mooney that was built with full zinc
> chromate primer, mostly non-structural skin, and chrome-moly tube
> frame, with battery behind baggage compartment. It was just fine with
> ground wire to airframe at battery. Cessna does the same.
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding question |
Just a data point, even with a dedicated ground, my LED nav/strobes did have considerable
noise. So much that it required a wholesale replacement of the lights.
I didnt discover it until taxiing our for flight #1, so it became the first
item I discovered before I ever left the ground.
Come to find out, it wasnt a grounding or wiring problem, it was a design problem
within the LED. The LEDs I had more pulled current when they were on and
less when they were off. This created a surge that also broke the auto-squelch
on my GTN750. So every time they fired, the squelch in my headset broke too.
This required a new LED design that had a more linear current flow. So the current
would remain constant even in the off cycles. This addressed the auto-squelch
on the GTN.
The newer Garmin Nav/Coms dont have a squelch knob. They sense the noise floor
and then automatically adjust the squelch to match the floor. With a constant
current draw the floor became constant again and the squelch became functional
again.
Just a word of caution as you go shop LEDs that flash. My were from a very reputable
Certified and Experimental lighting provider and not cheapos from Napa.
Its good to ask questions about the current flow patterns and not just be current
flow; especially if your using newer radios with auto squelch.
Fortunately the provider I used worked with me to make a swap to a newer LED version
relatively painless and simple.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 19, 2017, at 6:23 PM, Sean Stephens <sean@stephensville.com> wrote:
>
>
> Same boat here. No run from forest on firewall back to batt. LED nav and strobe
lights locally grounded. No issues with those. But... I do have crazy noise
when my locally grounded HID landing light ballasts heat up at first. It
subsides once the draw rush is over. Thinking of swapping out for LED landing
lights anyways, but have been unable to make them quiet.
>
> -Sean #40303
>
>> Kelly McMullen <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>
>> October 19, 2017 at 4:08 PM
>>
>> The airframe has plenty of surface area to carry any amount of current you will
use.
>> Running a separate cable from the battery to firewall central grounding point
is a totally wasted effort.
>> Strobes are a bit different animal if you are talking the old capacitive discharge
into a flash tube variety. They do generate noise that is hard to totally
suppress.
>> LED strobes don't seem to do that.
>> I have electrical system from battery to VPX system built to plans, with grounding
cable to frame , in front of battery box.
>> I have LED nav lights and strobes, all grounded locally, along with Vans landing
lights grounded locally.
>> The central grounding is essential for electronics that amplify noises such
as intercoms, nav coms etc. It is unnecessary for resistive electrical loads,
as they don't generate RF noise.
>> My previous aircraft was a Mooney that was built with full zinc chromate primer,
mostly non-structural skin, and chrome-moly tube frame, with battery behind
baggage compartment. It was just fine with ground wire to airframe at battery.
Cessna does the same.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding question |
If the conductivity of the airframe deteriorates, it means that a *lot*
of rivets were not driven properly and are going to start smoking soon,
if they aren't already. I grant you corrosive environments are
difficult. I sure would want to have a hangar in those locations.
On 10/19/2017 3:08 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
> Along that line, its important to remember that the conductivity you get today
may not be e conductivity you see 3, 5, or 10 years down the road. As corrosion
sets in over time, resistance will increase and circuit performance is degrade.
>
> If youre in a highly corrosive environment like those of us along the gulf coast,
its probably a wise investment to run a dedicated grounding wire.
>
> We spend way too much time in this area chasing down grounding problems that
are frequently caused by corrosion. Often times, they get fixed by running a
dedicated ground to whatever device is having problems.
>
> Phil
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding question |
Thats why our gulf coast planes tend to be heavier. We soak them in primer!
:)
Its better here in Waco than when I was in Houston. I dont miss the rust and corrosion
on everything. My hand tools look like trash after years of working
down there.
You could use a new tool in the morning and by the next morning it would have rust
forming on it.
When we move to Waco, being able to keep bread on the counter more than 4 Days
was awesome! :)
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 19, 2017, at 6:52 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
>
> If the conductivity of the airframe deteriorates, it means that a *lot* of rivets
were not driven properly and are going to start smoking soon, if they aren't
already. I grant you corrosive environments are difficult. I sure would want
to have a hangar in those locations.
>
>> On 10/19/2017 3:08 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>> Along that line, its important to remember that the conductivity you get today
may not be e conductivity you see 3, 5, or 10 years down the road. As corrosion
sets in over time, resistance will increase and circuit performance is
degrade.
>> If youre in a highly corrosive environment like those of us along the gulf coast,
its probably a wise investment to run a dedicated grounding wire.
>> We spend way too much time in this area chasing down grounding problems that
are frequently caused by corrosion. Often times, they get fixed by running a
dedicated ground to whatever device is having problems.
>> Phil
>
>
>
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