Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:22 AM - Re: Re: How now to get lost .... (Dan Charrois)
2. 09:45 AM - Overhead Console (David J. Fritzsche)
3. 10:15 AM - Re: Overhead Console (Bob Leffler)
4. 11:08 AM - Re: Battery charger/minder/tender (Rob Kermanj)
5. 12:10 PM - Re: Battery charger/minder/tender - redux (Bill Watson)
6. 12:53 PM - Re: Battery charger/minder/tender - redux (Tim Olson)
7. 09:51 PM - Re: Battery charger/minder/tender (Dan Charrois)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: How now to get lost .... |
For ADS-B out, It's done by my transponder (Dynon SV-XPNDR-261 which provides ADS-B
out on 1090 ES when connected to an approved GPS like my GTN 650).
For ADS-B In, I've done that with a Stratux (stratux.me), a DIY dual frequency
(1090 & 978 Mhz) receiver that decodes aircraft transmissions as well as FIS-B
and TIS-B broadcasts (though the latter only exists in the US). It's connected
by serial port to my AFS EFIS, and seems to work quite well actually... certainly
a lot better than no traffic at all :-)
Though UAT (978 Mhz) is sufficient in the US, I decided on the 1090 ES transponder
since if anywhere else in the world mandates ADS-B Out, they likely will be
doing it at 1090 Mhz instead of 978. And 1090 is accepted in the US at all
altitudes, and is required in class A (above 18000' MSL).
And yep - as of October 19th, Navworx is no more.
Dan
> On 2017-Dec-19, at 6:55 AM, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Dan
>
> What tech did you use for ADSB In/Out?
>
> I was thinking of using Navworx when the time came but they seem to have gone
sideways.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476601#476601
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213
Message 2
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| Subject: | Overhead Console |
What overhead consoles are currently available for the RV-10?
David
40813 Still building slowly.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Overhead Console |
I believe that the Aerosport Products overhead is the only one that is stil
l commercially available.
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server@matronic
s.com> on behalf of David J. Fritzsche <dfritz@bpgsim.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 12:26:33 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Overhead Console
What overhead consoles are currently available for the RV-10?
David
40813 Still building slowly.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Battery charger/minder/tender |
You might add this to your order for an easy plugin on installed on the bagg
age compartment.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 16, 2017, at 2:51 PM, Ed Godfrey <egodfrey@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
> To all of the folks who provided suggestions, thanks. I will be putting th
e CTEK charger on my Christmas list. Thanks.
>
> Ed Godfrey
>
>> On 12/7/2017 11:46 AM, Rob Kermanj wrote:
>> I have been using this charger on all my vehicles and Odessey Batt. =C3=AF
=C2=C2=BDWorks fantastic.
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FQBWCY/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpa
ge?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>>
>> Do not archive.<mime-attachment.png>
>>
>>> On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:36 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have since switched to the BatteryMinder Odyssey specific charger.
>>>
>>> http://www.batteryminders.com/batteryminder-model-128cec1-aa-s3-12v-8-am
p-hawker-odyssey-gill-lt-7000-series-aviation-battery-charger-maintainer-des
ulfator/
>>>
>>> I wanted to make sure to use a real recommended odyssey charger.
>>>
>>> I'm sure the other ones can do the job. I just felt better with this one
knowing it was actually made for that type of battery, and it would be set t
o the right mode automatically if the power went out and came back on.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 6, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Ed Godfrey <egodfrey@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am looking to get a battery charger/tender and was looking for the Wa
lmart one that Tim had suggested a number of years ago, to charge my Odyssey
PC-925 battery. It seems that they no longer carry the WM-2500A model any l
onger. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would be a suitable repla
cement? Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Ed Godfrey<====================
======;=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3
=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD- The RV10-List Email For
um -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>>> http://forums.matr==================
=========nbsp;--> http://wiki.matronics.com<=====
=====================;=C3=AF=C2
=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD
=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF
=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD- List Conbsp;=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2
=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3
=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2
=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2
=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3
=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD-Matt Dralle, List Ads.com/contribution">ht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Battery charger/minder/tender - redux |
* warning - slightly off topic*
I left several cars idle for a month and was rather upset when my wife's
new Miata's battery was 'dead'. Clearly a parasitic load was involved
and that would seem to be a defect. Then after considering all the
electrical tricks this particular car plays (e.g. the electric windows
are slightly nudged each time a door is opened or closed in order to get
a good seal with the retractable roof) I thought, "of course there are
parasitic loads, and they may be a bit more than the electric clock in
my Dad's old DeSoto".
I'm thinking that just about any modern car has some parasitic loads. I
have a mid-90s Caravan for occasional junk hauling that has weathered a
few parasitic load problems like a trailer brake. Even with all those
cleared I know that the transmission can be reset by disconnecting the
battery, so there must be some very small loads designed in.
So while I know I don't need a minder for my 680s, I think I'm getting
one for the Miata since there is a tendency to not put many miles on it
in the winter.
And I guess it's okay to use my Schumacher SC3 for an occasional charge
of my 680s. Even though the charger doesn't have settings for AGM
versus Lead Acid, versus Gel, it does specifically state it is good for
AGMs.
On 12/14/2017 9:53 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
> Having ruined a number of 680s during my 10 year odyssey, I've come to
> the same conclusions as Kelly has below. I'm a bit late to this
> discussion but here one thing I have empirical evidence for;
> undercharging these batteries will slowly kill them, slowly but
> inevitably.
>
> Three things I KNOW will do this is
>
> 1. Inadequate voltage in aircraft charging circuit (read the spec
> sheet and obey it). This seems straight forward but do check that
> the voltage you are displaying is the voltage the battery sees. I
> was measuring the voltage for my two charging circuits in two
> different places (EIS and EFIS). Turned out one was accurate and
> one was not.
> 2. Old battery tenders/minders not intended for AGM batteries.
> During my build, I had a few left over from my gel cell days in
> gliders. They will not adequately charge a discharged 680 but it
> takes about 1.2 years to discover that. I'm not sure, but using
> an old one to just maintain is worse than throwing the old thing
> away. If there are tenders/minders on the market now that are
> unsuitable for AGM batteries, I wouldn't know, but see Kelly's
> points below - you just don't need one, you need an AGM capable
> charger.
> 3. Parasitic loads when not in use. My load was fully documented;
> the clocks in my (3) GRT EFISs (this has since been eliminated
> thru an enlightened SW upgrade). It was a very small load but it
> was 3X a small load. I have 2 batteries but the load was connected
> to only one, which made diagnosis easier but more expensive. Why
> is such a small load in a frequently flown plane such a problem?
> Didn't grandpa drive cars with electric clocks? That didn't seem
> to be a problem. Well it was occasionally a problem. And with
> AGMs, a parasitic load seems to be equivalent to undercharging it;
> the battery is sits in a slowly declining state then is
> undercharged the next time it gets hit with the starter load. I
> don't know whether that is actually the mechnism but I KNOW a
> parasitic load will slowly, inevitably, kill a 680 or 2. I guess
> you could keep it on an AGM certified minder/tender but I'd
> suggest hunting down the load and killing it.
>
> Things will work just fine with any 3 of these conditions for 1-2
> years then they won't. It's a slow death that may mystify you for
> $awhile$. I have a boat but 680s make lousy anchors.
>
> Speaking of boats, my little jon boat is parked next to my '10. The
> Walmart/Schumacher charger with settings for AGM, Lead and Gel Cell(?)
> batteries worked fine until I apparently wore it out charging the lead
> acid trolling motor battery every other day. I'm going to separate
> chargers as a result.
>
> Regarding 'empirical evidence'; label, log and track your batteries,
> especially if you have 2 of the same installed like I do in my Z-14
> scheme. That data is the key to figuring out whether you have slow
> death problems or not and what might be causing them. Problems are
> easily mitigated with a dual batt/alt/bus Z-14 which is good and bad.
> It can delay diagnosis of electrical system problems because they
> aren't so critical. Which means that you can kill 2 batteries with one
> problem before you decide to act.
>
> Bill "I KNOW is shorthand for 'ask me how I know and how much it cost
> me to figure it out' " Watson
> On 12/6/2017 10:45 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>> The Odyssey is a variant of the AGM technology. I suggest that you do
>> not need a "tender". You need something that can recharge the battery
>> whenever it has been run down. Most any automatic charger with an AGM
>> switch will do...as long as you only charge things when you are present.
>> AGM batteries have a very low self discharge rate, and if there was
>> no leakage of current, would be very fresh after 3 months of sitting.
>> If you want a genuine Odyssey charger, you can go with
>> https://www.batterymart.com/p-obc-12a-odyssey-portable-charger.html
>> or
>> https://www.batterymart.com/p-obc-6a-odyssey-portable-charger.html
>> Both a lot less than the overpriced Battery minder models.
>> Again, I would NOT leave a charger of any kind on a battery unattended.
>> There are several unnecessary risks.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/6/2017 8:24 PM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
>>>
>>> I am looking to get a battery charger/tender and was looking for the
>>> Walmart one that Tim had suggested a number of years ago, to charge
>>> my Odyssey PC-925 battery. It seems that they no longer carry the
>>> WM-2500A model any longer. Does anyone have any suggestions as to
>>> what would be a suitable replacement? Thanks.
>>>
>>> Ed Godfrey
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
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>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Battery charger/minder/tender - redux |
If you're ok with having parasitic loads, I did find a device that I
bought for my truck, that can at least let you monitor your battery.
https://www.batterymart.com/p-081-0172-wireless-battery-monitor.html?gclid=CjwKCAiAsejRBRB3EiwAZft7sAXMPY8TZL8cCg4x-nF9y54EYPvNo9rtg2E94_p_apCDfMq6SUP9JBoCnzgQAvD_BwE
It's the Battery Tender wireless battery monitor.
I put a lighter pigtail on it, and plug it into my trucks always-on
accessory socket.
Warning: It was THE BIGGEST PAIN I've ever experienced, ever, in
configuring a wireless device, but, it does work. For my truck
that I don't drive much in the winter, I left the Ctek charger on it,
with this plugged into the truck, so any time I want I can check
the voltage of my battery. If the charger turns off, in theory
I will get an alert if the battery drains too low.
Better than not knowing, I guess. But questionable if you need it
if you're going to leave a charger on it anyway.
It turns itself off and every 10 minutes turns on, uploads the
battery voltage, and then sleeps again.
Tim
On 12/20/2017 02:09 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
> * warning - slightly off topic*
> I left several cars idle for a month and was rather upset when my wife's
> new Miata's battery was 'dead'. Clearly a parasitic load was involved
> and that would seem to be a defect. Then after considering all the
> electrical tricks this particular car plays (e.g. the electric windows
> are slightly nudged each time a door is opened or closed in order to get
> a good seal with the retractable roof) I thought, "of course there are
> parasitic loads, and they may be a bit more than the electric clock in
> my Dad's old DeSoto".
>
> I'm thinking that just about any modern car has some parasitic loads. I
> have a mid-90s Caravan for occasional junk hauling that has weathered a
> few parasitic load problems like a trailer brake. Even with all those
> cleared I know that the transmission can be reset by disconnecting the
> battery, so there must be some very small loads designed in.
>
> So while I know I don't need a minder for my 680s, I think I'm getting
> one for the Miata since there is a tendency to not put many miles on it
> in the winter.
>
> And I guess it's okay to use my Schumacher SC3 for an occasional charge
> of my 680s. Even though the charger doesn't have settings for AGM
> versus Lead Acid, versus Gel, it does specifically state it is good for
> AGMs.
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Battery charger/minder/tender |
I thought I'd weigh in a bit with my own experience on parasitic loads on a PC680..
I have a dual battery configuration, with the idea being that I could power up
avionics, enter flight plans, do pre-start radio calls, etc. off the one battery
(the 680) and not have worry about draining the battery for engine start, as
my other battery takes care of that. Also, the 680 is also connected to the
"always on" pin for two of my EFISes (Advanced Flight Systems) which gives them
a better orderly shutdown, clock maintenance (I presume) and the ability to
run off the 680 as a backup battery if I have to turn my master off in flight
for some reason. It's also connected to the "trickle charge" pin of a TCW IBBS
Nimh battery pack (4mA max) used as a backup battery for other purposes.
Conceptually, it works well. And in practice it *did* work well for the first
little while - even in cases where I hadn't operated the aircraft for a month
and the 680 was under those small parasitic loads for a long time, the voltage
on the 680 measured fine and it ran my avionics for a reasonable amount of time.
But lately I've noticed that my 680 can't maintain a charge for long at all
if under any kind of load. I installed it around 3 years ago (only one of
those years flying, but for the other two, it was installed and under the same
electrical loads as now while I completed construction of the plane).
As long as only a couple of amps are flowing through, it can maintain its voltage
reasonably well before drooping. But if larger loads (ie: 7 or 8 amps) are
present, it drains extremely rapidly.
I'll have to replace the PC680 if I want any kind of reasonable backup operational
time from it. Maybe a 3 year lifespan for a 680 in that electrical environment
is to be expected, but I'm considering if other technologies might be more
appropriate. I don't need the cranking capacity of the 680 in regular use
- my other battery does that. But I am looking for something that can provide
a 10 or so amp draw for as long a period of time as possible while not being
so adverse to parasitic loads. Anyone found anything that meets that criteria?
Or I can just replace the 680 every 3 or so years - there are certainly more
expensive things I have to maintain in the plane :-)
Dan
> On 2017-Dec-14, at 7:53 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Having ruined a number of 680s during my 10 year odyssey, I've come to the same
conclusions as Kelly has below. I'm a bit late to this discussion but here
one thing I have empirical evidence for; undercharging these batteries will slowly
kill them, slowly but inevitably.
>
> Three things I KNOW will do this is
> Inadequate voltage in aircraft charging circuit (read the spec sheet and obey
it). This seems straight forward but do check that the voltage you are displaying
is the voltage the battery sees. I was measuring the voltage for my
two charging circuits in two different places (EIS and EFIS). Turned out one
was accurate and one was not.
> Old battery tenders/minders not intended for AGM batteries. During my build,
I had a few left over from my gel cell days in gliders. They will not adequately
charge a discharged 680 but it takes about 1.2 years to discover that.
I'm not sure, but using an old one to just maintain is worse than throwing
the old thing away. If there are tenders/minders on the market now that are
unsuitable for AGM batteries, I wouldn't know, but see Kelly's points below -
you just don't need one, you need an AGM capable charger.
> Parasitic loads when not in use. My load was fully documented; the clocks
in my (3) GRT EFISs (this has since been eliminated thru an enlightened SW upgrade).
It was a very small load but it was 3X a small load. I have 2 batteries
but the load was connected to only one, which made diagnosis easier but more
expensive. Why is such a small load in a frequently flown plane such a problem?
Didn't grandpa drive cars with electric clocks? That didn't seem to be a
problem. Well it was occasionally a problem. And with AGMs, a parasitic load
seems to be equivalent to undercharging it; the battery is sits in a slowly
declining state then is undercharged the next time it gets hit with the starter
load. I don't know whether that is actually the mechnism but I KNOW a parasitic
load will slowly, inevitably, kill a 680 or 2. I guess you could keep it
on an AGM certified minder/tender but I'd suggest hunting down the load and killing
it.
> Things will work just fine with any 3 of these conditions for 1-2 years then
they won't. It's a slow death that may mystify you for $awhile$. I have a boat
but 680s make lousy anchors.
>
> Speaking of boats, my little jon boat is parked next to my '10. The Walmart/Schumacher
charger with settings for AGM, Lead and Gel Cell(?) batteries worked
fine until I apparently wore it out charging the lead acid trolling motor battery
every other day. I'm going to separate chargers as a result.
>
> Regarding 'empirical evidence'; label, log and track your batteries, especially
if you have 2 of the same installed like I do in my Z-14 scheme. That data
is the key to figuring out whether you have slow death problems or not and what
might be causing them. Problems are easily mitigated with a dual batt/alt/bus
Z-14 which is good and bad. It can delay diagnosis of electrical system problems
because they aren't so critical. Which means that you can kill 2 batteries
with one problem before you decide to act.
>
> Bill "I KNOW is shorthand for 'ask me how I know and how much it cost me to figure
it out' " Watson
> On 12/6/2017 10:45 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>> The Odyssey is a variant of the AGM technology. I suggest that you do not need
a "tender". You need something that can recharge the battery whenever it has
been run down. Most any automatic charger with an AGM switch will do...as long
as you only charge things when you are present.
>> AGM batteries have a very low self discharge rate, and if there was no leakage
of current, would be very fresh after 3 months of sitting.
>> If you want a genuine Odyssey charger, you can go with
>> https://www.batterymart.com/p-obc-12a-odyssey-portable-charger.html
>> or
>> https://www.batterymart.com/p-obc-6a-odyssey-portable-charger.html
>> Both a lot less than the overpriced Battery minder models.
>> Again, I would NOT leave a charger of any kind on a battery unattended.
>> There are several unnecessary risks.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/6/2017 8:24 PM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
>>>
>>> I am looking to get a battery charger/tender and was looking for the Walmart
one that Tim had suggested a number of years ago, to charge my Odyssey PC-925
battery. It seems that they no longer carry the WM-2500A model any longer. Does
anyone have any suggestions as to what would be a suitable replacement? Thanks.
>>>
>>> Ed Godfrey
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213
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