Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:35 PM - Re: ADS-B compliance question (Dan Charrois)
2. 06:56 PM - Advice for gascolator quick drains (Dan Charrois)
3. 07:06 PM - Advice for gascolator quick drains (extra info) (Dan Charrois)
4. 07:36 PM - Getting wing lined up and pinned (David Carr)
5. 07:36 PM - Re: Advice for gascolator quick drains (kearney)
6. 07:55 PM - Re: Getting wing lined up and pinned (kearney)
7. 08:22 PM - Re: Getting wing lined up and pinned (David Saylor)
8. 08:33 PM - Re: Getting wing lined up and pinned (Jesse Saint)
9. 09:07 PM - Test (Tim Olson)
10. 09:24 PM - Re: Test (Tim Olson)
11. 11:20 PM - Re: Test (Albert)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: ADS-B compliance question |
> On 2018-Feb-08, at 5:23 PM, Bob Leffler <bob@thelefflers.com> wrote:
>
>
> A couple questions........
>
> What EFIS do you have? Is it a Skyview or AFS? Your EFIS should be providing
the 261 pressure altitude. GPS altitude is only used as a backup. I believe
that both are transmitted as part of the ADSB out.
It's an AFS system I have.
>
> I can't tell you how to debug the Skyview, but on the AFS there is the ability
to dump data from the serial ports to an ascii file. It may be tedious, but
you can look through this output and see if there is any issues with the EFIS
transmitting pressure altitude to the 261. I'm sure that you can do something
similar on the Skyview. Unfortunately I don't have that experience.
I'll try to do a serial port dump the next time I go flying to see if there are
any inconsistencies. Thanks for the suggestion!
>
> How close was the nearest ADSB tower? Sometimes there are errors during initial
climb out and on descent. Especially if the ADSB tower is nearby or on the
field. I know that some folks were advised for the ADSB rebates to leave everything
turned off until they hit 3K agl to minimize these errors.
I'm not sure - and likely throughout the flight hopped between several towers.
The report didn't give me much info other than just saying that there were some
errors with Geo Alt. For all I know, it might have just been on the ground
when the GPS was still getting a lock on the satellites and didn't know altitude
yet. But in any case, I can't figure out why a total outage of 21 seconds
worth of data came to a reported 3.7% fail rate, when in reality the failure
rate should have been 15 times less by my calculations.
>
> Have you had the 261 certified yet? They should be able to see if there are
any issues with the transponder and its data feeds. Although many shops have
older test rigs.
The "traditional Mode C" side of the transponder was certified a bit less than
a year ago. Though the equipment used didn't have the ability to dig deep into
the ADS-B data other than to just see that it was generally sending valid packets.
>
> If these weren't failed as red, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Generate
another PAPR the next time you're In the US.
The Geo Alt. section (under missing elements) was flagged as red. But none of
the "exceptions" section (NIC, NACp, NACv, SIL, SDA) or anything else. Just the
Geo Alt.
Others have suggested potentially inputting an altitude offset to ensure barometric
altitude matches closely with GPS altitude (unless the reference is to adjust
the GPS altitude, though I've already set my antenna height above the wheel
base accurately). But I thought the "Missing Elements" Geo Alt failures were
"standalone" where the GPS didn't provide altitude data. I didn't think it
was flagging that it didn't compare favourably against barometric altitude. My
Baro Alt, Baro Alt Delta, Geo Alt, and Geo Alt Delta under the Kinematics section
all read 0 errors and 0% failure rate.
In any case, how could they actually compare the two, since baro alt for the transponder
is standardized at 29.92 and geo alt isn't affected by the local air
pressure. Plus, even if they recorded nearest station altimeter readings to
make the appropriate corrections, even then comparing the two assumes an ISA atmosphere,
which is rarely the case. From my understanding, that's why, for example,
even if altimeters are set perfectly, if the weather is cold, cold temperature
corrections are necessary to find true height above sea level otherwise
you're flying lower than you think. The GPS altitude wouldn't reflect any
of this.
I'll double check the firmware for the transponder and GTN as well, to make sure
they're all up to date.
Regardless, I'll try doing a serial dump the next time I fly, though since I don't
fly in the US that often, it might be some time before I can compare it against
another PAPR.
Thanks again for the suggestion!
Dan
---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213
Message 2
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| Subject: | Advice for gascolator quick drains |
Hi everyone.
I have gascolators located in the wing roots of my RV-10 (here in Canada, we require
them, whether they make logical sense or not).
They're at the lowest point in the fuel system I can get them (also required),
though the true lowest point in the fuel system is the drains in the bottom of
the tanks, since fuel has to flow uphill to get into the gascolator (from either
direction). So I don't expect there to be much water ever get trapped in
the gascolator. And in reality, though I had a bit of water I drained once from
the bottom of the tanks (the result of a not-perfectly-sealed fuel cap when
the plane was left outside in the rain once), I've never seen any in the gascolators.
Nonetheless, I should have a quick drain, if for no other reason than
to be able to check them periodically - though water won't naturally flow into
them when the plane is at rest, when the fuel is flowing, I imagine small droplets
in suspension with the fuel may get trapped in the bowl and slowly build
up.
The trouble is that these gascolators aren't under positive pressure as gascolators
would normally be - they'd be under a slight negative pressure as fuel is
sucked from the tanks. I worry that if I used just a standard quick drain there
might be the possibility of air leaking into the fuel line (I've seen those
quick drains leak fuel on more than one occasion when the seal starts to degrade
a bit - they seem to be notorious for that - so I'm reasonably certain they'd
just as happily leak air in as well if they're under suction as they are).
And I'm not too sure that having air bubbles in the fuel is altogether preferable
to water droplets.
Does anyone have any good suggestions on how to handle this? I definitely don't
expect to have to check for water after every flight as most would be drained
from the tank drains anyway. Screwing in just a simple plug works reliably
enough to keep the air out, but is a bit problematic to periodically check and
drain (fuel tends to get everywhere when you try to thread the plug back into
place). Is there a quick-drain suited for this sort of specific purpose? I'm
thinking of maybe something that screws in to have a positive seal to prevent
leakage, but unscrews slightly to let a bit of fuel drain out? Something better
than just a spring pushing against an O-ring, or having a plug that has to
be completely removed, in any event.
Thanks for any help or advice you might have!
Dan
---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213
Message 3
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| Subject: | Advice for gascolator quick drains (extra info) |
I just realized a better way of describing the type of fuel drain that I imagine
might work perfectly for the gascolators under slight suction as I mentioned.
I'm thinking of something along a similar design to how the bleeder valves for
the brake lines work. The valve is held closed by screwing the mechanism shut,
but when the mechanism is unscrewed, fluid can flow through and out the centre
of the valve. Really, not all that dissimilar to how a regular tap works either.
Does such a thing exist with a relatively low profile and 1/4" NPT threads
that wouldn't protrude too far into the gascolator? Or does someone see
a problem with this type of approach?
But of course I'm open to any and all suggestions too!
Thanks!
Dan
---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213
Message 4
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| Subject: | Getting wing lined up and pinned |
Hi list,
How difficult is it to get the wing lined up and pinned to the fuselage?
I had this idea that two people could lift the root while a third slips the
first pin in. Then we could lift the tip/pivot the wing around the pin
until the upper holes line up.
Or is this more complex than I'm thinking?
Thanks for the help,
David
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Advice for gascolator quick drains |
Dan
I would use solid bungs with thread sealant. When I had gascolators located in
the wing roots I was very concerned about getting air into the fuel system.
I would not use quick drains.
Cheers
Les
PS: MDRA no longer "requires" gascolators provided functionality is met. Perhaps
you could remove yours arguing that they are no longer required.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478014#478014
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Getting wing lined up and pinned |
David
I have had to do his twice. Each time it was remarkably easy. First off, I put
my bolts into dry ice overnight to shrink them slightly.
Then I used two of these lifts (https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/300-lb-dirt-bike-motorcycle-lift/A-p8667792e) that a friend had on hand. One at the wing tip and one at the root so I could tweak the wing angle.
As you suggest, I got one bolt in and the rest soon followed. I think it will be
awkward to do it manually as it may be tricky to keep things steady.
Cheers
Les
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478016#478016
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Getting wing lined up and pinned |
Ideally, if you can round up three others to help, I'd put one each at the
leading and trailing edge of the root, one at the tip, and one to slip in
the bolts. They won't need a lot of force. Using a round-nosed "bullet"
helps line things up. As Les said, the first one is trickiest, then they
get easier.
--Dave
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 9:46 AM, David Carr <junk@dcarr.org> wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> How difficult is it to get the wing lined up and pinned to the fuselage?
>
> I had this idea that two people could lift the root while a third slips
> the first pin in. Then we could lift the tip/pivot the wing around the pin
> until the upper holes line up.
>
> Or is this more complex than I'm thinking?
>
> Thanks for the help,
> David
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Getting wing lined up and pinned |
Its easiest with 4 people, it you could do it with 3. Have one at the wingtip
and two at the wing root, one in front and one behind the wing. The one at the
back will need a screwdriver or something to spread the rear spar carry-through
so the rear space can fit into the slot. While holding the front of the wing,
the person in front or behind can sight through a bolt hole to verify alignment,
then the other person can put the bolt in place and tap it in. The person
at the wingtip will adjust his position to help alignment. Once one bolt is
in place on top, then the person at the wingtip will move up or down as necessary
to get a hole at the bottom to line up, then tap another bolt in place. Make
sure to grease the bolt before inserting. It will help them go in and come
back out when necessary. You can clean any grease from the threads for final installation.
Once 2 bolts are in place the rest will be much easier. I like to
use a 2x2 long enough to hit with a mallet in front of the front tank baffle
so I dont risk hitting the wing or the fuselage. Make sure any fittings in the
tank area dont get in the way of the bolts. It can happen easily.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
352-427-0285
jesse@saintaviation.com
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 13, 2018, at 12:46 PM, David Carr <junk@dcarr.org> wrote:
>
> Hi list,
>
> How difficult is it to get the wing lined up and pinned to the fuselage?
>
> I had this idea that two people could lift the root while a third slips the first
pin in. Then we could lift the tip/pivot the wing around the pin until the
upper holes line up.
>
> Or is this more complex than I'm thinking?
>
> Thanks for the help,
> David
Message 9
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Someone told me they couldnt post to the list so Im testing it.
Tim
Message 10
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Must have been something going on...that took over 24 hours to show up.
Tim
> On Feb 13, 2018, at 9:17 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
>
>
> Someone told me they couldnt post to the list so Im testing it.
> Tim
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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I think the 24 hour delay occurs because of the international date line. If somebody
east of the line posts something on say Tuesday, it would show up on Monday
west of the line making people wonder about time travel and such. The 24 hour
delay removes the problem. People are comfortable with hours and days of delay
but don't want messages from the future in their inbox.
AG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Test
Must have been something going on...that took over 24 hours to show up.
Tim
> On Feb 13, 2018, at 9:17 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
>
>
> Someone told me they couldnt post to the list so Im testing it.
> Tim
>
>
>
>
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