Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:41 AM - Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals (Carl Froehlich)
2. 07:01 AM - Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals (Tim Olson)
3. 08:03 AM - Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals (Bill Watson)
4. 08:11 AM - Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals (Lenny Iszak)
5. 08:27 AM - Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals (Tim Olson)
6. 08:35 AM - Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals (Tim Olson)
7. 08:59 AM - Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals (Lenny Iszak)
8. 09:07 AM - Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals (Geoff Combs)
9. 09:20 AM - Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals (John Miller)
10. 01:21 PM - Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals (Bill Watson)
11. 01:53 PM - Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals (Chris)
12. 03:02 PM - Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals (Tim Olson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Aftermarket Rudder Pedals |
I find the stock rudder pedal setup works just fine - after I added a simple
extension to keep my toes off the brakes. I buddy of mine made these on his
milling machine. He still has the pattern if anyone is interested.
$2000 will buy a lot of avgas.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kearney
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals
Just under $2k
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 6, 2018, at 9:06 PM, Marcus Cooper <cooprv7@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Les,
>
> They indeed look nice. No prices on the website that I could find. What
did they set you back?
>
> Thanks,
> Marcus
> Hoping to break 1000 hours this year
>
>> On Mar 6, 2018, at 9:28 PM, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>> Do not archive
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> Everyone knows that VANS makes a great kit. That being said, some of the
kit components do seem like that they are ex the iron works of Mordor.
>>
>> IMHO, the rudder pedals and brake lines supplied as part of the VANS kit
really don't do the -10 justice. In my flying -10, I installed Paul
Grimstad's after market pedals.. I have been very happy with them. They
really look like they "belong'".
>>
>> For my current project I went back to Paul and got his current pedal
iteration. It is lighter and equally appropriate in a -10 fuse.
>>
>> For those interested, here is a link to his website:
>> http://controlapproach.com/products/experimental-aircraft-products/rv
>> 10-rudder-pedal-system
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Les
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478432#478432
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0144_108.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals |
I'd agree. I've never found them aesthetically unpleasing and they work
just fine. In my case I don't even have the extension and don't have a
problem
keeping off the brakes. Plus they do make those aftermarket rubber pedals
with upper and lower push areas, if someone really has to have that.
There are plenty of ways to spend extra thousands of dollars...but
having just
signed on to SiriusXM today, I'd rather spend it on 4 years of satellite wx.
To each his own I guess.
To those who ask why XM when ADS-B is free....ADS-B coverage sucks
at low altitudes and you don't have it when you need it most.
Tim
On 3/7/2018 8:39 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
> I find the stock rudder pedal setup works just fine - after I added a simple
> extension to keep my toes off the brakes. I buddy of mine made these on his
> milling machine. He still has the pattern if anyone is interested.
>
> $2000 will buy a lot of avgas.
>
> Carl
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| Subject: | Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals |
Re ADSB coverage: Tim, is that primarily a 'midwest' issue in your
experience? I was previously a XM subscriber and definitely preferred
their wx products but I'm getting ADSB coverage everywhere I'm looking
for it on the east coast and the price remains right. Just wondering....
I painted my Vans pedals (the pads with the holes) in silver and they
really look spiffy - like stainless. Didn't see that coming. Those
aftermarkets look pretty spiffy as well.
Bill "wondering if 1,000 hours marks the beginning of some kind of a
'things fail and wear-out' mode" Watson
On 3/7/2018 10:00 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> I'd agree. I've never found them aesthetically unpleasing and they work
> just fine. In my case I don't even have the extension and don't have
> a problem
> keeping off the brakes. Plus they do make those aftermarket rubber
> pedals
> with upper and lower push areas, if someone really has to have that.
> There are plenty of ways to spend extra thousands of dollars...but
> having just
> signed on to SiriusXM today, I'd rather spend it on 4 years of
> satellite wx.
> To each his own I guess.
>
> To those who ask why XM when ADS-B is free....ADS-B coverage sucks
> at low altitudes and you don't have it when you need it most.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 3/7/2018 8:39 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>> I find the stock rudder pedal setup works just fine - after I added a
>> simple
>> extension to keep my toes off the brakes. I buddy of mine made these
>> on his
>> milling machine. He still has the pattern if anyone is interested.
>>
>> $2000 will buy a lot of avgas.
>>
>> Carl
>
>
---
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| Subject: | Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals |
I have these pedals (photo attached). They work great, but still don
=99t fix the sticking master cylinder issue. Just recently had some
badly warped rotors because of dragging brakes.
Saw someone put plastic Heyco bushings in the lightning holes of their
stock pedals. It make it look really cool, and probably saves the
powdercoating from wearing off.
Lenny
> On Mar 7, 2018, at 10:00 AM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'd agree. I've never found them aesthetically unpleasing and they
work
> just fine. In my case I don't even have the extension and don't have
a problem
> keeping off the brakes. Plus they do make those aftermarket rubber
pedals
> with upper and lower push areas, if someone really has to have that.
> There are plenty of ways to spend extra thousands of dollars...but
having just
> signed on to SiriusXM today, I'd rather spend it on 4 years of
satellite wx.
> To each his own I guess.
>
> To those who ask why XM when ADS-B is free....ADS-B coverage sucks
> at low altitudes and you don't have it when you need it most.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 3/7/2018 8:39 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>> I find the stock rudder pedal setup works just fine - after I added a
simple
>> extension to keep my toes off the brakes. I buddy of mine made these
on his
>> milling machine. He still has the pattern if anyone is interested.
>>
>> $2000 will buy a lot of avgas.
>>
>> Carl
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals |
I would say if you live on the East coast, you'll probably have it
better than most people in the country.
Certainly the coverage is better and the terrain is flatter. Where it
really falls apart is
in the center of the country and heading west, and in the mountains in
areas too.
It depends on what you're flight altitude is, and the season, especially.
Like for instance, one spring trip around here, we had cold temps with
icing conditions
all over, but VFR underneath. The ceilings being 1200' or so. Well,
that's fine if
you have good viz underneath...no reason to cancel a trip to the
tropics, or to not
be able to get home. But, you will find that under 3000-3500' of
altitude the
coverage is horrible in much of the country. Maybe it's summertime and
there
are thunderstorms and clouds...I never want to fly instruments when
there are
lots of thunderstorms all in my path, so I'll duck under where I can
stay VFR and
make decisions on the conditions and do lots of deviations. That
doesn't play
well always either with the altitude restrictions of ADS-B. Even by my
own airport
and flying to the local town that is 80,000+ people and one of the only
bigger
cities in our part of the state, we have to be at 3,000-3500' before we
get any
weather info. In the rainy periods of the year, this makes it again
impossible to
have the data you need to avoid storm cells and make decisions that may give
you a good route to your destination. When I took the plane to idaho
with ADS-B
only, we had <2000' ceilings just east of the rockies in Wyoming....with
great
clear skies under the overcast. No weather info to be had, which means no
current wind info for your possible fuel stops.
So what I find is, if you are flying something heavier that you are
always going to
fly high, and cruise at maybe 8,000-16,000', sure, FIS-B will probably
work for you
if you don't care about the weather picture when you're on the ground.
But for any serious x/c travel, if you are NOT interested in getting
into icing,
and NOT interested in flying inside clouds with embeded thunderstorms
anywhere nearby, or you need to fly at 1,000-3,000' for avoiding turbulence
or weather, you will be lacking all of the data you need to do it safely.
I distinctly remember a flight home from OSH in the Sundowner years ago,
started at 7,000 IFR, but with big black clouds to the North, ended
cancelling
and going lower to get home VFR. I had no weather data, and no fuel
totalizer,
and had an extended taxi at OSH. I felt completely at a loss for
information and
had to divert and stop and sit on the ground until I could get good weather
data. As it turned out, if I'd have had a fuel totalizer, and any kind
of in-cockpit
weather, I would have known my fuel situation was "plenty" and a 10 minute
diversion could have put me on the back side in completely clear skies,
where
I'd have been able to get home. In fact, by phone, people at home told me
there wasn't a cloud in the sky...I just needed to take the right route.
FIS-B is a big letdown of coverage. If the feds DOUBLED the number of
uplinks, I'd say it may finally just be good enough. The way it is now,
I think they should have skipped FIS-B altogether and just given a free
base package of satellite weather to every pilot, with Nexrad, metars,
and TAF's and TFR's. Then let them buy additional.
At least in my past 1500 hours in the RV's now, I can say that satellite wx
was one of the biggest things that enabled successful trips, and is
probably the
last piece of technology I'd want to remove from the plane, even as
far as the EFIS goes. I'll fly a six-pack if I have to, but you have to pry
the weather data from my hands.
Tim
On 3/7/2018 10:02 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
>
> Re ADSB coverage: Tim, is that primarily a 'midwest' issue in your
> experience? I was previously a XM subscriber and definitely
> preferred their wx products but I'm getting ADSB coverage everywhere
> I'm looking for it on the east coast and the price remains right.
> Just wondering....
>
> I painted my Vans pedals (the pads with the holes) in silver and they
> really look spiffy - like stainless. Didn't see that coming. Those
> aftermarkets look pretty spiffy as well.
>
> Bill "wondering if 1,000 hours marks the beginning of some kind of
> a 'things fail and wear-out' mode" Watson
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals |
I'm curious, how are those pedals balanced as far as a tendency to tip
forward or aft?
Not being critical at all, just wondering. I know that when I added the
pedal blocks
to mine for the girls, I set them up and they actually are weighted so
that they would
help to retract the pedal. I also remember people in the past adding
return springs
to the master cylinder. (is that what I see by the hose on the picture?)
Is it possible that the weighting of the pedal maybe assisted in adding
to the
brake drag? Just thinking out loud. If that were true, maybe a slight
change in the
position of the lower pad could make a difference.
I've not run into problems with the stock setup, but I know people who have,
and I've always been curious as to what would be so different. I know that
a few people have gone to a singe long hinge bolt, and I know that over
tightening
the bolts can really be a big problem. But other that that I can't find any
serious flaws in the stock system. Van's did improve the pedal itself
in the
RV-14 kit, so for new builders, you may want to swap parts for the
actual metal pedal itself. from the -14. Everything else is the same.
Tim
On 3/7/2018 10:10 AM, Lenny Iszak wrote:
> I have these pedals (photo attached). They work great, but still dont
> fix the sticking master cylinder issue. Just recently had some badly
> warped rotors because of dragging brakes.
>
> Saw someone put plastic Heyco bushings in the lightning holes of their
> stock pedals. It make it look really cool, and probably saves the
> powdercoating from wearing off.
>
> Lenny
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals |
The pedal geometry is exactly the same as stock. I havent checked their balance
but thats a good point.
I did add return springs and they seem to be helping, but Im going to switch them
out to clock springs, cause according to Matco the current ones are eventually
going to wear out the master cylinder shaft.
Lenny
> On Mar 7, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
>
> I'm curious, how are those pedals balanced as far as a tendency to tip forward
or aft?
> Not being critical at all, just wondering. I know that when I added the pedal
blocks
> to mine for the girls, I set them up and they actually are weighted so that they
would
> help to retract the pedal. I also remember people in the past adding return
springs
> to the master cylinder. (is that what I see by the hose on the picture?)
> Is it possible that the weighting of the pedal maybe assisted in adding to the
> brake drag? Just thinking out loud. If that were true, maybe a slight change
in the
> position of the lower pad could make a difference.
>
> I've not run into problems with the stock setup, but I know people who have,
> and I've always been curious as to what would be so different. I know that
> a few people have gone to a singe long hinge bolt, and I know that over tightening
> the bolts can really be a big problem. But other that that I can't find any
> serious flaws in the stock system. Van's did improve the pedal itself in the
> RV-14 kit, so for new builders, you may want to swap parts for the
> actual metal pedal itself. from the -14. Everything else is the same.
> Tim
>
>
>
>
> On 3/7/2018 10:10 AM, Lenny Iszak wrote:
>> I have these pedals (photo attached). They work great, but still dont fix the
sticking master cylinder issue. Just recently had some badly warped rotors because
of dragging brakes.
>>
>> Saw someone put plastic Heyco bushings in the lightning holes of their stock
pedals. It make it look really cool, and probably saves the powdercoating from
wearing off.
>>
>> Lenny
>>
>>
>> <IMG_0476.JPG>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Aftermarket Rudder Pedals |
While on the discussion of rudder pedals, Aerosport Products is going to
start offering these extensions with Your Custom N-Number or whatever you
would like,
Or just a standard set with the AEROSPORT on them. These will be Nylon PA12
and the cost will be $75.00 per set of 2 for the Standard and for custom
will be
$95.00. For custom pedals allow around 2 weeks. I have been flying with a
set of these that I machined out of Aluminum for 8 years. I have just
changed over to the new ones.
You will need 2 sets for pilot and copilot
Geoff Combs
Aerosport Modeling & Design
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal, Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-5227
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2018 9:39 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals
I find the stock rudder pedal setup works just fine - after I added a simple
extension to keep my toes off the brakes. I buddy of mine made these on his
milling machine. He still has the pattern if anyone is interested.
$2000 will buy a lot of avgas.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kearney
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals
Just under $2k
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 6, 2018, at 9:06 PM, Marcus Cooper <cooprv7@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Les,
>
> They indeed look nice. No prices on the website that I could find.
> What
did they set you back?
>
> Thanks,
> Marcus
> Hoping to break 1000 hours this year
>
>> On Mar 6, 2018, at 9:28 PM, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>> Do not archive
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> Everyone knows that VANS makes a great kit. That being said, some of
>> the
kit components do seem like that they are ex the iron works of Mordor.
>>
>> IMHO, the rudder pedals and brake lines supplied as part of the VANS
>> kit
really don't do the -10 justice. In my flying -10, I installed Paul
Grimstad's after market pedals.. I have been very happy with them. They
really look like they "belong'".
>>
>> For my current project I went back to Paul and got his current pedal
iteration. It is lighter and equally appropriate in a -10 fuse.
>>
>> For those interested, here is a link to his website:
>> http://controlapproach.com/products/experimental-aircraft-products/rv
>> 10-rudder-pedal-system
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Les
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478432#478432
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0144_108.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals |
I wholeheartedly agree with Tims assessment. XM WX on my 396 is a permanent fixture
in my 10 with the ADS-B WX the backup!
grumpy
> On Mar 7, 2018, at 10:26 AM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
>
>
> I would say if you live on the East coast, you'll probably have it better than
most people in the country.
> Certainly the coverage is better and the terrain is flatter. Where it really
falls apart is
> in the center of the country and heading west, and in the mountains in areas
too.
> It depends on what you're flight altitude is, and the season, especially.
> Like for instance, one spring trip around here, we had cold temps with icing
conditions
> all over, but VFR underneath. The ceilings being 1200' or so. Well, that's fine
if
> you have good viz underneath...no reason to cancel a trip to the tropics, or
to not
> be able to get home. But, you will find that under 3000-3500' of altitude the
> coverage is horrible in much of the country. Maybe it's summertime and there
> are thunderstorms and clouds...I never want to fly instruments when there are
> lots of thunderstorms all in my path, so I'll duck under where I can stay VFR
and
> make decisions on the conditions and do lots of deviations. That doesn't play
> well always either with the altitude restrictions of ADS-B. Even by my own airport
> and flying to the local town that is 80,000+ people and one of the only bigger
> cities in our part of the state, we have to be at 3,000-3500' before we get any
> weather info. In the rainy periods of the year, this makes it again impossible
to
> have the data you need to avoid storm cells and make decisions that may give
> you a good route to your destination. When I took the plane to idaho with ADS-B
> only, we had <2000' ceilings just east of the rockies in Wyoming....with great
> clear skies under the overcast. No weather info to be had, which means no
> current wind info for your possible fuel stops.
>
> So what I find is, if you are flying something heavier that you are always going
to
> fly high, and cruise at maybe 8,000-16,000', sure, FIS-B will probably work for
you
> if you don't care about the weather picture when you're on the ground.
> But for any serious x/c travel, if you are NOT interested in getting into icing,
> and NOT interested in flying inside clouds with embeded thunderstorms
> anywhere nearby, or you need to fly at 1,000-3,000' for avoiding turbulence
> or weather, you will be lacking all of the data you need to do it safely.
>
> I distinctly remember a flight home from OSH in the Sundowner years ago,
> started at 7,000 IFR, but with big black clouds to the North, ended cancelling
> and going lower to get home VFR. I had no weather data, and no fuel totalizer,
> and had an extended taxi at OSH. I felt completely at a loss for information
and
> had to divert and stop and sit on the ground until I could get good weather
> data. As it turned out, if I'd have had a fuel totalizer, and any kind of in-cockpit
> weather, I would have known my fuel situation was "plenty" and a 10 minute
> diversion could have put me on the back side in completely clear skies, where
> I'd have been able to get home. In fact, by phone, people at home told me
> there wasn't a cloud in the sky...I just needed to take the right route.
>
> FIS-B is a big letdown of coverage. If the feds DOUBLED the number of
> uplinks, I'd say it may finally just be good enough. The way it is now,
> I think they should have skipped FIS-B altogether and just given a free
> base package of satellite weather to every pilot, with Nexrad, metars,
> and TAF's and TFR's. Then let them buy additional.
>
> At least in my past 1500 hours in the RV's now, I can say that satellite wx
> was one of the biggest things that enabled successful trips, and is probably
the
> last piece of technology I'd want to remove from the plane, even as
> far as the EFIS goes. I'll fly a six-pack if I have to, but you have to pry
> the weather data from my hands.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 3/7/2018 10:02 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
>>
>> Re ADSB coverage: Tim, is that primarily a 'midwest' issue in your experience?
I was previously a XM subscriber and definitely preferred their wx products
but I'm getting ADSB coverage everywhere I'm looking for it on the east coast
and the price remains right. Just wondering....
>>
>> I painted my Vans pedals (the pads with the holes) in silver and they really
look spiffy - like stainless. Didn't see that coming. Those aftermarkets look
pretty spiffy as well.
>>
>> Bill "wondering if 1,000 hours marks the beginning of some kind of a 'things
fail and wear-out' mode" Watson
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals |
Yes, that sounds different that what I normally encounter in the east
and southeast.
I can get ADSB weather practically down to the ground, or at least as
close to the ground as I normally find myself looking for wx info. A
couple of years ago I had an odd situation where I could take off from
my home field (8NC8) and fly to KTTA, passing by KRDU, and would not get
any ADSB data until very short final at KTTA. However, taking off from
KTTA and flying home, I would have ADSB data all the way back.
Sometimes rec'ng ADSB data on the ground at 8NC8. Power down and then
back up - no ADSB. Navworx worked with me (!!!) to try and fix it. We
concluded it was an ADSB 'network' problem and sure enough, full service
appeared magically a few months later. (Yes, I'm still runnning Navworx
with the AMOC successfully)
Otherwise, flying underneath a low ceiling to avoid ice is not common
solution in the SE, at least for me. But I do plenty of flying under
the icy overcast out of KAGC (Pittsburgh) and I consistently get ADSB at
1500' AGL when needed. Same with T-storms. Normally flying above
cloud base, which often between 4 and 6k, is enough to allow convective
storm avoidance via the requested deviation. Only rarely do I run into
situations where getting underneath is preferable. Surface 'bumpiness',
i.e. hills and antenna make me think twice about it anyway.
As a wise and experienced aviator said recently, "At least in my past
1500 hours in the RV's now, I can say that satellite wx was one of the
biggest things that enabled successful trips, and is probably the last
piece of technology I'd want to remove from the plane, even as far as
the EFIS goes. I'll fly a six-pack if I have to, but you have to pry
the weather data from my hands." Indeed.
It has been that way for me since I first laid eyes on Nexrad imagery in
the cockpit using CheapBastard software on the communicating Palm Pilot
(anyone else here ever use it?). Then the 396 came out with XM and my
little Maule with its 6-pack felt like a EA6 Prowler bristling with
antennas. In fact for that first year or so with the 396 it was great
fun to mix it up with jet traffic that would be holding outside say KJAX
because of a line of thunder-bumpers while I snaked my way in behind
it. They had radar, but I could see around corners.
Five minutes later it seemed like everyone had a 396 in the bag - radar
capable or not.
On 3/7/2018 11:26 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> I would say if you live on the East coast, you'll probably have it
> better than most people in the country.
> Certainly the coverage is better and the terrain is flatter. Where it
> really falls apart is
> in the center of the country and heading west, and in the mountains in
> areas too.
> It depends on what you're flight altitude is, and the season, especially.
> Like for instance, one spring trip around here, we had cold temps with
> icing conditions
> all over, but VFR underneath. The ceilings being 1200' or so. Well,
> that's fine if
> you have good viz underneath...no reason to cancel a trip to the
> tropics, or to not
> be able to get home. But, you will find that under 3000-3500' of
> altitude the
> coverage is horrible in much of the country. Maybe it's summertime
> and there
> are thunderstorms and clouds...I never want to fly instruments when
> there are
> lots of thunderstorms all in my path, so I'll duck under where I can
> stay VFR and
> make decisions on the conditions and do lots of deviations. That
> doesn't play
> well always either with the altitude restrictions of ADS-B. Even by
> my own airport
> and flying to the local town that is 80,000+ people and one of the
> only bigger
> cities in our part of the state, we have to be at 3,000-3500' before
> we get any
> weather info. In the rainy periods of the year, this makes it again
> impossible to
> have the data you need to avoid storm cells and make decisions that
> may give
> you a good route to your destination. When I took the plane to idaho
> with ADS-B
> only, we had <2000' ceilings just east of the rockies in
> Wyoming....with great
> clear skies under the overcast. No weather info to be had, which
> means no
> current wind info for your possible fuel stops.
>
> So what I find is, if you are flying something heavier that you are
> always going to
> fly high, and cruise at maybe 8,000-16,000', sure, FIS-B will probably
> work for you
> if you don't care about the weather picture when you're on the ground.
> But for any serious x/c travel, if you are NOT interested in getting
> into icing,
> and NOT interested in flying inside clouds with embeded thunderstorms
> anywhere nearby, or you need to fly at 1,000-3,000' for avoiding
> turbulence
> or weather, you will be lacking all of the data you need to do it safely.
>
> I distinctly remember a flight home from OSH in the Sundowner years ago,
> started at 7,000 IFR, but with big black clouds to the North, ended
> cancelling
> and going lower to get home VFR. I had no weather data, and no fuel
> totalizer,
> and had an extended taxi at OSH. I felt completely at a loss for
> information and
> had to divert and stop and sit on the ground until I could get good
> weather
> data. As it turned out, if I'd have had a fuel totalizer, and any
> kind of in-cockpit
> weather, I would have known my fuel situation was "plenty" and a 10
> minute
> diversion could have put me on the back side in completely clear
> skies, where
> I'd have been able to get home. In fact, by phone, people at home
> told me
> there wasn't a cloud in the sky...I just needed to take the right route.
>
> FIS-B is a big letdown of coverage. If the feds DOUBLED the number of
> uplinks, I'd say it may finally just be good enough. The way it is now,
> I think they should have skipped FIS-B altogether and just given a free
> base package of satellite weather to every pilot, with Nexrad, metars,
> and TAF's and TFR's. Then let them buy additional.
>
> At least in my past 1500 hours in the RV's now, I can say that
> satellite wx
> was one of the biggest things that enabled successful trips, and is
> probably the
> last piece of technology I'd want to remove from the plane, even as
> far as the EFIS goes. I'll fly a six-pack if I have to, but you have
> to pry
> the weather data from my hands.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 3/7/2018 10:02 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
>>
>> Re ADSB coverage: Tim, is that primarily a 'midwest' issue in your
>> experience? I was previously a XM subscriber and definitely
>> preferred their wx products but I'm getting ADSB coverage everywhere
>> I'm looking for it on the east coast and the price remains right.
>> Just wondering....
>>
>> I painted my Vans pedals (the pads with the holes) in silver and
>> they really look spiffy - like stainless. Didn't see that coming.
>> Those aftermarkets look pretty spiffy as well.
>>
>> Bill "wondering if 1,000 hours marks the beginning of some kind of
>> a 'things fail and wear-out' mode" Watson
>
>
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| Subject: | Aftermarket Rudder Pedals |
...and if you are low enough 4G LTE works too.
-Chris
N919AR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Watson
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2018 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals
Yes, that sounds different that what I normally encounter in the east and
southeast.
I can get ADSB weather practically down to the ground, or at least as close
to the ground as I normally find myself looking for wx info. A couple of
years ago I had an odd situation where I could take off from my home field
(8NC8) and fly to KTTA, passing by KRDU, and would not get any ADSB data
until very short final at KTTA. However, taking off from KTTA and flying
home, I would have ADSB data all the way back. Sometimes rec'ng ADSB data on
the ground at 8NC8. Power down and then back up - no ADSB. Navworx worked
with me (!!!) to try and fix it. We concluded it was an ADSB 'network'
problem and sure enough, full service appeared magically a few months
later. (Yes, I'm still runnning Navworx with the AMOC successfully)
Otherwise, flying underneath a low ceiling to avoid ice is not common
solution in the SE, at least for me. But I do plenty of flying under the
icy overcast out of KAGC (Pittsburgh) and I consistently get ADSB at 1500'
AGL when needed. Same with T-storms. Normally flying above cloud base,
which often between 4 and 6k, is enough to allow convective storm avoidance
via the requested deviation. Only rarely do I run into situations where
getting underneath is preferable. Surface 'bumpiness', i.e. hills and
antenna make me think twice about it anyway.
As a wise and experienced aviator said recently, "At least in my past
1500 hours in the RV's now, I can say that satellite wx was one of the
biggest things that enabled successful trips, and is probably the last piece
of technology I'd want to remove from the plane, even as far as the EFIS
goes. I'll fly a six-pack if I have to, but you have to pry the weather
data from my hands." Indeed.
It has been that way for me since I first laid eyes on Nexrad imagery in the
cockpit using CheapBastard software on the communicating Palm Pilot (anyone
else here ever use it?). Then the 396 came out with XM and my little Maule
with its 6-pack felt like a EA6 Prowler bristling with antennas. In fact
for that first year or so with the 396 it was great fun to mix it up with
jet traffic that would be holding outside say KJAX because of a line of
thunder-bumpers while I snaked my way in behind it. They had radar, but I
could see around corners.
Five minutes later it seemed like everyone had a 396 in the bag - radar
capable or not.
On 3/7/2018 11:26 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> I would say if you live on the East coast, you'll probably have it
> better than most people in the country.
> Certainly the coverage is better and the terrain is flatter. Where it
> really falls apart is in the center of the country and heading west,
> and in the mountains in areas too.
> It depends on what you're flight altitude is, and the season, especially.
> Like for instance, one spring trip around here, we had cold temps with
> icing conditions all over, but VFR underneath. The ceilings being
> 1200' or so. Well, that's fine if you have good viz underneath...no
> reason to cancel a trip to the tropics, or to not be able to get home.
> But, you will find that under 3000-3500' of altitude the coverage is
> horrible in much of the country. Maybe it's summertime and there are
> thunderstorms and clouds...I never want to fly instruments when there
> are lots of thunderstorms all in my path, so I'll duck under where I
> can stay VFR and make decisions on the conditions and do lots of
> deviations. That doesn't play well always either with the altitude
> restrictions of ADS-B. Even by my own airport and flying to the local
> town that is 80,000+ people and one of the only bigger cities in our
> part of the state, we have to be at 3,000-3500' before we get any
> weather info. In the rainy periods of the year, this makes it again
> impossible to have the data you need to avoid storm cells and make
> decisions that may give you a good route to your destination. When I
> took the plane to idaho with ADS-B only, we had <2000' ceilings just
> east of the rockies in Wyoming....with great clear skies under the
> overcast. No weather info to be had, which means no current wind info
> for your possible fuel stops.
>
> So what I find is, if you are flying something heavier that you are
> always going to fly high, and cruise at maybe 8,000-16,000', sure,
> FIS-B will probably work for you if you don't care about the weather
> picture when you're on the ground.
> But for any serious x/c travel, if you are NOT interested in getting
> into icing, and NOT interested in flying inside clouds with embeded
> thunderstorms anywhere nearby, or you need to fly at 1,000-3,000' for
> avoiding turbulence or weather, you will be lacking all of the data
> you need to do it safely.
>
> I distinctly remember a flight home from OSH in the Sundowner years
> ago, started at 7,000 IFR, but with big black clouds to the North,
> ended cancelling and going lower to get home VFR. I had no weather
> data, and no fuel totalizer, and had an extended taxi at OSH. I felt
> completely at a loss for information and had to divert and stop and
> sit on the ground until I could get good weather data. As it turned
> out, if I'd have had a fuel totalizer, and any kind of in-cockpit
> weather, I would have known my fuel situation was "plenty" and a 10
> minute diversion could have put me on the back side in completely
> clear skies, where I'd have been able to get home. In fact, by phone,
> people at home told me there wasn't a cloud in the sky...I just needed
> to take the right route.
>
> FIS-B is a big letdown of coverage. If the feds DOUBLED the number of
> uplinks, I'd say it may finally just be good enough. The way it is
> now, I think they should have skipped FIS-B altogether and just given
> a free base package of satellite weather to every pilot, with Nexrad,
> metars, and TAF's and TFR's. Then let them buy additional.
>
> At least in my past 1500 hours in the RV's now, I can say that
> satellite wx was one of the biggest things that enabled successful
> trips, and is probably the last piece of technology I'd want to remove
> from the plane, even as far as the EFIS goes. I'll fly a six-pack if
> I have to, but you have to pry the weather data from my hands.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 3/7/2018 10:02 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
>>
>> Re ADSB coverage: Tim, is that primarily a 'midwest' issue in your
>> experience? I was previously a XM subscriber and definitely
>> preferred their wx products but I'm getting ADSB coverage everywhere
>> I'm looking for it on the east coast and the price remains right.
>> Just wondering....
>>
>> I painted my Vans pedals (the pads with the holes) in silver and
>> they really look spiffy - like stainless. Didn't see that coming.
>> Those aftermarkets look pretty spiffy as well.
>>
>> Bill "wondering if 1,000 hours marks the beginning of some kind of
>> a 'things fail and wear-out' mode" Watson
>
>
---
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|
| Subject: | Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals |
Very true. I find to be reliable in my area thats 1000-1500 max, but I think when
the day come that we can all get in cockpit internet access cheaply, that
will finally negate the need for all of this other satellite and FIS-B stuff.
It cant come soon enough.
Tim
> On Mar 7, 2018, at 3:45 PM, Chris <toaster73@embarqmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> ...and if you are low enough 4G LTE works too.
> -Chris
> N919AR
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Watson
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2018 3:55 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals
>
>
> Yes, that sounds different that what I normally encounter in the east and
> southeast.
>
> I can get ADSB weather practically down to the ground, or at least as close
> to the ground as I normally find myself looking for wx info. A couple of
> years ago I had an odd situation where I could take off from my home field
> (8NC8) and fly to KTTA, passing by KRDU, and would not get any ADSB data
> until very short final at KTTA. However, taking off from KTTA and flying
> home, I would have ADSB data all the way back. Sometimes rec'ng ADSB data on
> the ground at 8NC8. Power down and then back up - no ADSB. Navworx worked
> with me (!!!) to try and fix it. We concluded it was an ADSB 'network'
> problem and sure enough, full service appeared magically a few months
> later. (Yes, I'm still runnning Navworx with the AMOC successfully)
>
> Otherwise, flying underneath a low ceiling to avoid ice is not common
> solution in the SE, at least for me. But I do plenty of flying under the
> icy overcast out of KAGC (Pittsburgh) and I consistently get ADSB at 1500'
> AGL when needed. Same with T-storms. Normally flying above cloud base,
> which often between 4 and 6k, is enough to allow convective storm avoidance
> via the requested deviation. Only rarely do I run into situations where
> getting underneath is preferable. Surface 'bumpiness', i.e. hills and
> antenna make me think twice about it anyway.
>
> As a wise and experienced aviator said recently, "At least in my past
> 1500 hours in the RV's now, I can say that satellite wx was one of the
> biggest things that enabled successful trips, and is probably the last piece
> of technology I'd want to remove from the plane, even as far as the EFIS
> goes. I'll fly a six-pack if I have to, but you have to pry the weather
> data from my hands." Indeed.
>
> It has been that way for me since I first laid eyes on Nexrad imagery in the
> cockpit using CheapBastard software on the communicating Palm Pilot (anyone
> else here ever use it?). Then the 396 came out with XM and my little Maule
> with its 6-pack felt like a EA6 Prowler bristling with antennas. In fact
> for that first year or so with the 396 it was great fun to mix it up with
> jet traffic that would be holding outside say KJAX because of a line of
> thunder-bumpers while I snaked my way in behind it. They had radar, but I
> could see around corners.
>
> Five minutes later it seemed like everyone had a 396 in the bag - radar
> capable or not.
>
>> On 3/7/2018 11:26 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> I would say if you live on the East coast, you'll probably have it
>> better than most people in the country.
>> Certainly the coverage is better and the terrain is flatter. Where it
>> really falls apart is in the center of the country and heading west,
>> and in the mountains in areas too.
>> It depends on what you're flight altitude is, and the season, especially.
>> Like for instance, one spring trip around here, we had cold temps with
>> icing conditions all over, but VFR underneath. The ceilings being
>> 1200' or so. Well, that's fine if you have good viz underneath...no
>> reason to cancel a trip to the tropics, or to not be able to get home.
>> But, you will find that under 3000-3500' of altitude the coverage is
>> horrible in much of the country. Maybe it's summertime and there are
>> thunderstorms and clouds...I never want to fly instruments when there
>> are lots of thunderstorms all in my path, so I'll duck under where I
>> can stay VFR and make decisions on the conditions and do lots of
>> deviations. That doesn't play well always either with the altitude
>> restrictions of ADS-B. Even by my own airport and flying to the local
>> town that is 80,000+ people and one of the only bigger cities in our
>> part of the state, we have to be at 3,000-3500' before we get any
>> weather info. In the rainy periods of the year, this makes it again
>> impossible to have the data you need to avoid storm cells and make
>> decisions that may give you a good route to your destination. When I
>> took the plane to idaho with ADS-B only, we had <2000' ceilings just
>> east of the rockies in Wyoming....with great clear skies under the
>> overcast. No weather info to be had, which means no current wind info
>> for your possible fuel stops.
>>
>> So what I find is, if you are flying something heavier that you are
>> always going to fly high, and cruise at maybe 8,000-16,000', sure,
>> FIS-B will probably work for you if you don't care about the weather
>> picture when you're on the ground.
>> But for any serious x/c travel, if you are NOT interested in getting
>> into icing, and NOT interested in flying inside clouds with embeded
>> thunderstorms anywhere nearby, or you need to fly at 1,000-3,000' for
>> avoiding turbulence or weather, you will be lacking all of the data
>> you need to do it safely.
>>
>> I distinctly remember a flight home from OSH in the Sundowner years
>> ago, started at 7,000 IFR, but with big black clouds to the North,
>> ended cancelling and going lower to get home VFR. I had no weather
>> data, and no fuel totalizer, and had an extended taxi at OSH. I felt
>> completely at a loss for information and had to divert and stop and
>> sit on the ground until I could get good weather data. As it turned
>> out, if I'd have had a fuel totalizer, and any kind of in-cockpit
>> weather, I would have known my fuel situation was "plenty" and a 10
>> minute diversion could have put me on the back side in completely
>> clear skies, where I'd have been able to get home. In fact, by phone,
>> people at home told me there wasn't a cloud in the sky...I just needed
>> to take the right route.
>>
>> FIS-B is a big letdown of coverage. If the feds DOUBLED the number of
>> uplinks, I'd say it may finally just be good enough. The way it is
>> now, I think they should have skipped FIS-B altogether and just given
>> a free base package of satellite weather to every pilot, with Nexrad,
>> metars, and TAF's and TFR's. Then let them buy additional.
>>
>> At least in my past 1500 hours in the RV's now, I can say that
>> satellite wx was one of the biggest things that enabled successful
>> trips, and is probably the last piece of technology I'd want to remove
>> from the plane, even as far as the EFIS goes. I'll fly a six-pack if
>> I have to, but you have to pry the weather data from my hands.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>> On 3/7/2018 10:02 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
>>>
>>> Re ADSB coverage: Tim, is that primarily a 'midwest' issue in your
>>> experience? I was previously a XM subscriber and definitely
>>> preferred their wx products but I'm getting ADSB coverage everywhere
>>> I'm looking for it on the east coast and the price remains right.
>>> Just wondering....
>>>
>>> I painted my Vans pedals (the pads with the holes) in silver and
>>> they really look spiffy - like stainless. Didn't see that coming.
>>> Those aftermarkets look pretty spiffy as well.
>>>
>>> Bill "wondering if 1,000 hours marks the beginning of some kind of
>>> a 'things fail and wear-out' mode" Watson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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