Today's Message Index:
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1. 04:09 AM - Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School (tomhanaway)
2. 04:53 AM - Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School (Don McDonald)
3. 05:52 AM - Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School (kearney)
4. 05:58 AM - Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School (kearney)
5. 06:28 AM - Re: Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School (Kelly McMullen)
6. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School (Kelly McMullen)
7. 09:15 AM - Re: Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School (Phillip Perry)
8. 01:47 PM - Re: Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School (Kelly McMullen)
9. 02:59 PM - Re: Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School (Patrick Pulis)
10. 07:19 PM - Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School (kearney)
11. 08:15 PM - Re: Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School (Don McDonald)
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| Subject: | Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School |
Neat experience. I have an io-375 from Aerosport. Found them great to
deal with. One thing to check based on the picture. I believe Lycoming
has a SB out stating that the fuel lines to the injectors should be supported
with Adel clamps.
Regards,
Tom Hanaway
Rv-10 built and sold
Rv-8a flying
--------
RV-10. Built and sold
RV-8a. Building
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| Subject: | Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School |
Well done Les.=C2- Thanks for the info.=C2- I also have noted that the
Aerosprt Power people have always been super.... questions, problems etc.
=C2- So les, exactly how much HP does this beast produce?=C2- What mods
did they make to get it to produce that HP.Thanks again for the write up.D
on McDonald1,000 hours and counting.Still as fun as it was on the first fli
ght.
On Friday, April 27, 2018, 9:34:40 PM CDT, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wr
ote:
Hi=C2-
After a lot of thought I decided to order a *new* engine built from a Lycom
ing IO-540 kit by Aerosport Power located in Kamloops British Columbia Cana
da. As a Lycoming distributor they still have access to these kits.
I originally planned to get another engine from Barret Precision Engines (T
ulsa Ok) which is where I got my first engine. They are great people BTW.
I went with Aerosport as the thought of a *new* engine was just too attract
ive.
An option that Aerosport provides is a "builder school" . Here you work one
on one with one of their techs and assemble an engine from a large pile o'
parts. When I inquired about the school they said you can do as much (or l
ittle) as you wanted.
I went to "school" on Monday am and was able to assemble 95% of the engine
with the expert guidance of one of their techs (Simon). The crank was bolte
d to an engine stand and the con rods were installed. By lunch we had insta
lled the bearings, crank & cam in the case, installed lifters, nose seal an
d mated the case. I was amazed at how tight the case through bolts were (ne
cessary to prevent fretting). I large hammer (maul?) was used to drive them
into place.=C2-
The assembled case was reattached to the engine stand. Then, after lunch th
e jugs were installed. This was a complete non event. Lots of LubriPlate an
d the correct tool to compress the rings and they simply slid into place.
Push rod tubes were installed along with the accessory case and cold air in
duction air=C2- box.
The next day he engine was completed. This included the push rods / rockers
/ injectors / fuel block / induction tubes etc.
Day three involved installing the engine on a test stand. This was fairly c
omplex as I am using the SDS EFI/EI. There was a ton of wiring to install b
ut it all went quite smoothly. At the end of the day the first two engine r
uins were performed. The engine started quickly. I expected a cloud of blac
k smoke based on all the assembly lubricant used but I only got a small ini
tial puff of white smoke.=C2- The engine started in 2 or three seconds wa
s smooth and strong.
On the morning of day 4 the final two engine runs were performed. After tha
t the engine was removed from the test truck and prepped for palletization.
This included installing by accessories (Denso alternator / 90 degree oil
adapter / backup alternator etc).
The engine was put on a pallet and then crated. Today I drove home with the
engine.
There were a few gotchas that Aerosport handled with ease.
1. I was using Barret's Cold Air Induction system on the engine (Barret was
quite happy to sell it to me without an attached engine!).=C2- At the en
d of day 1, when torqueing one of the studs, it started to pull out. I spok
e to another of the techs (Rob) who said no problem. I pulled the box and h
e installed a helicoil and that was that.
2. The Barret CAI system was new to Aerosport. They didn't realize that the
induction tubes needed welding to the flange adapters. No problem - they h
ad a local welder come in the next day and he did a very nice job.
3. The CAI system required induction tube flanges with deeper recesses than
the flanges that came with the engine kit. Darryl found the required flang
es and had them painted in very short order.
What I really liked is that everyone involved in my engine (even peripheral
ly) were very approachable. For example, the chap (Stephen) who painted my
engine and flywheel asked if I really wanted to leave my CAI system in gree
n (I said I did). He then pointed out that the green was zinc chromium and
was not really *paint*. Based on his recommendation I asked him to paint it
=C3=A2=82=AC=9C I was in Ferrari red by the next day. He could ha
ve easily just shrugged and walked away but he made sure I knew the implica
tions of what I asked for. I really appreciated that.
I=C2- more or less had the run of the shop and was free to chat with ever
yone there. At no time did I feel limited. All my questions were answered a
nd at no time did I feel rushed.=C2- As I was hands on all through the pr
ocess I really learned a lot about the engine and how it operates. Based on
the course, I would have no problem swapping a jug (provided I had the rig
ht tools).
I would also like to give a shout out to B&C. I had purchased a standby alt
ernator that I planned to install at Aerosport.=C2- During the install it
became apparent something was amiss. I spoke to TJ at B&C who con firmed t
here was a problem with the alternator supplied. Less than 24 hours later F
edEx had delivered a replacement. Things can and will go sideways at times.
A measure of a company is how they deal with these situations. B&C could n
ot have been better.
Another shout out should go to Ross and Barry at SDSEFI. Their Electronic F
uel Injection and Electronic Ignition system is a work of art and performed
flawlessly.=C2- I look forward to flying behind it.
To close on the school, the only things I did not do was install the nose s
eal, silk thread the case halves and adjust the push rod lengths. Each of t
hese operations I wanted to be done by the most expert of hands. I did pret
ty much everything else. During this, Simon was great at gently pointing ou
t my mistakes so I could correct them.
In short, the build school was well worth the price of admission. The Aeros
port people were all very pleasant, approachable and knowledgeable.
Pix of my Aerosport go fast engine is attached!
Cheers
Les
C-GROK (Some assembly required)
C-GCWZ (Flying and for sale)
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Attachments:
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S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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| Subject: | Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School |
Tim
I agree on the injector lines. All of that will happen when the engine is installed.
I want to change a couple of the lengths so things are a bit neater.
Cheers
Les
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| Subject: | Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School |
Don
My flying -10 has the same engine (9:1 pistons & cold air induction). It dyn o'd
out at 287 HP. Ross's customers report an 10-12 HP boost with EFI/EI. That
brings me up to about 300 HP.
That is what is on the data plate.
Cheers
Les
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479628#479628
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| Subject: | Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School |
Just curious if folks with higher than stock 8.5:1 compression have a
plan IF 100LL goes away and its replacement doesn't prove to have as
much octane. We know the stock compression will run on 91 octane mogas
or 94UL gas. Don't know what octane 9:1 takes.
I tend to doubt that EI or EFI add significant amount to full power.
Their main benefit is what they do to improve power in cruise and high
altitude conditions. Your take off power timing (and power output) will
be exactly the same as it is with a dinosaur magneto... at 25 degrees
BTDC. There maybe a hair bit better mixture distribution/control with
EFI, but continuous flow manifold fuel injection has proven very good as
long as intake runners are of equal length, which is mostly true for
Lycoming designs. Remember that stock power ratings have a tolerance of
plus or minus 5%. Les's flying engine is a plus 10%, which is mostly
explained by compression and cold air induction.
I assume those with higher power engines are still using the Vans
specified Vne of 200kts TAS (or 230 mph TAS). So far, have not needed
to use the JATO bottles I installed for looks and pilot miscalculations.
;-))
On 4/28/2018 5:58 AM, kearney wrote:
>
> Don
>
> My flying -10 has the same engine (9:1 pistons & cold air induction). It dyn
o'd out at 287 HP. Ross's customers report an 10-12 HP boost with EFI/EI. That
brings me up to about 300 HP.
>
> That is what is on the data plate.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479628#479628
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School |
Just to be clear, not only is there a Lycoming Service Bulletin on fuel
injection lines and clamps, there are a number of ADs, most recent is
AD 2015-19-07. Clearly something to pay attention to, regardless of where
you sit on the E-amateur built vs AD compliance debate.
The service bulletin shows you exactly where Lycoming thinks the clamps
should be.
Sent from my IBM-360 main frame
On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 5:51 AM, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> Tim
>
> I agree on the injector lines. All of that will happen when the engine is
> installed. I want to change a couple of the lengths so things are a bit
> neater.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479627#479627
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School |
My understanding is that 9:1 is probably good. Any more than that might have some
issues. We will wait and see.
I went 9:1 thinking that I was fine for the short term and that, by the time a
replacement fuel became widely available, Id be close to ready for a top overhaul
anyway. And at that point I could go back to 8.5s if it looked like that
would be necessary.
At the rate Im flying this thing, that might come soon. Im stacking the hours
on her. Its too much fun and too useful. But even 120 hrs in 10 months isnt
nearly enough time in at the controls. I still need more.
- is that addiction?
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 28, 2018, at 8:27 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
>
> Just curious if folks with higher than stock 8.5:1 compression have a plan IF
100LL goes away and its replacement doesn't prove to have as much octane. We
know the stock compression will run on 91 octane mogas or 94UL gas. Don't know
what octane 9:1 takes.
> I tend to doubt that EI or EFI add significant amount to full power. Their main
benefit is what they do to improve power in cruise and high altitude conditions.
Your take off power timing (and power output) will be exactly the same as
it is with a dinosaur magneto... at 25 degrees BTDC. There maybe a hair bit
better mixture distribution/control with EFI, but continuous flow manifold fuel
injection has proven very good as long as intake runners are of equal length,
which is mostly true for Lycoming designs. Remember that stock power ratings
have a tolerance of plus or minus 5%. Les's flying engine is a plus 10%, which
is mostly explained by compression and cold air induction.
> I assume those with higher power engines are still using the Vans specified Vne
of 200kts TAS (or 230 mph TAS). So far, have not needed to use the JATO bottles
I installed for looks and pilot miscalculations. ;-))
>
>> On 4/28/2018 5:58 AM, kearney wrote:
>> Don
>> My flying -10 has the same engine (9:1 pistons & cold air induction). It dyn
o'd out at 287 HP. Ross's customers report an 10-12 HP boost with EFI/EI. That
brings me up to about 300 HP.
>> That is what is on the data plate.
>> Cheers
>> Les
>> Read this topic online here:
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479628#479628
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School |
You may be right about time before something has to be done. The angle
valve cylinders on the 4 cyl 200 hp engines and 6 cyl 300 hp engines with
8.7:1 compression all require 100LL, and on the
4 cyl they also retarded the timing to 20 degrees. So I am dubious that you
can run 9:1 on anything less than 100LL. Hopefully all 3 fuels being
considered will make the
grade and make it in the market to hopefully control pricing.
Sent from my IBM-360 main frame
On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 9:13 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote
:
>
> My understanding is that 9:1 is probably good. Any more than that might
> have some issues. We will wait and see.
>
> I went 9:1 thinking that I was fine for the short term and that, by the
> time a replacement fuel became widely available, I=99d be close to
ready for
> a top overhaul anyway. And at that point I could go back to 8.5
=99s if it
> looked like that would be necessary.
>
> At the rate I=99m flying this thing, that might come soon. I
=99m stacking
> the hours on her. It=99s too much fun and too useful. But even
120 hrs in
> 10 months isn=99t nearly enough time in at the controls. I still
need more.
>
> - is that addiction?
>
> Phil
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 28, 2018, at 8:27 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote
:
> >
> >
> > Just curious if folks with higher than stock 8.5:1 compression have a
> plan IF 100LL goes away and its replacement doesn't prove to have as much
> octane. We know the stock compression will run on 91 octane mogas or 94UL
> gas. Don't know what octane 9:1 takes.
> > I tend to doubt that EI or EFI add significant amount to full power.
> Their main benefit is what they do to improve power in cruise and high
> altitude conditions. Your take off power timing (and power output) will b
e
> exactly the same as it is with a dinosaur magneto... at 25 degrees BTDC.
> There maybe a hair bit better mixture distribution/control with EFI, but
> continuous flow manifold fuel injection has proven very good as long as
> intake runners are of equal length, which is mostly true for Lycoming
> designs. Remember that stock power ratings have a tolerance of plus or
> minus 5%. Les's flying engine is a plus 10%, which is mostly explained by
> compression and cold air induction.
> > I assume those with higher power engines are still using the Vans
> specified Vne of 200kts TAS (or 230 mph TAS). So far, have not needed to
> use the JATO bottles I installed for looks and pilot miscalculations. ;-)
)
> >
> >> On 4/28/2018 5:58 AM, kearney wrote:
> >> Don
> >> My flying -10 has the same engine (9:1 pistons & cold air induction).
> It dyn o'd out at 287 HP. Ross's customers report an 10-12 HP boost with
> EFI/EI. That brings me up to about 300 HP.
> >> That is what is on the data plate.
> >> Cheers
> >> Les
> >> Read this topic online here:
> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479628#479628
> >
> >
> >
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School |
What fuel flows are you typically getting Les, and do you run Lean of Peak?
Warm regards
Patrick
> On 28 Apr 2018, at 22:28, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Don
>
> My flying -10 has the same engine (9:1 pistons & cold air induction). It dyn
o'd out at 287 HP. Ross's customers report an 10-12 HP boost with EFI/EI. That
brings me up to about 300 HP.
>
> That is what is on the data plate.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479628#479628
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School |
Hi Patrick
I don't run LOP as my injectors are not balanced for that. My fuel flow is about
12GPH or a little less.
Cheers
Les
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479671#479671
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| Subject: | Re: PIREP : Aerosport Power Builder School |
Get em balanced Les.... pretty easy.... after 1,000 at 2gph, that's an ext
ra 2,000 gallons at $4, gee, that's $8,000.=C2- To say nothing of your en
gine actually burning ALL the fuel, thus creating less carbon buildup on va
lves, pistons, and rings, plus the oil stays cleaner.=C2- Maybe even more
important is keeping each cylinder further away from running at the highes
t ICP (internal combustion pressure).Don
On Saturday, April 28, 2018, 9:29:24 PM CDT, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca>
wrote:
Hi Patrick
I don't run LOP as my injectors are not balanced for that. My fuel flow is
about 12GPH or a little less.
Cheers
Les
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479671#479671
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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