Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:43 AM - Run-away trim question (Jim Combs)
2. 06:54 AM - Re: Run-away trim question (Phillip Perry)
3. 07:04 AM - Re: Run-away trim question (Jim Combs)
4. 07:31 AM - Re: Run-away trim question (Kelly McMullen)
5. 07:38 AM - Re: Run-away trim question (Stein Bruch)
6. 07:52 AM - Re: Run-away trim question (Jim Combs)
7. 07:53 AM - Re: Run-away trim question (Jim Combs)
8. 08:07 AM - Re: Run-away trim question (Bob Leffler)
9. 08:37 AM - Re: Run-away trim question (Kelly McMullen)
10. 09:04 AM - Re: Spinner Cracks (johngoodman)
11. 09:16 AM - Re: Run-away trim question (Bob Turner)
12. 09:55 AM - Re: Run-away trim question (Bob Leffler)
13. 01:15 PM - Re: Run-away trim question (Tcwtech)
14. 02:25 PM - Re: Run-away trim question (Jim Combs)
15. 02:47 PM - Re: Run-away trim question (Tim Olson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Run-away trim question |
I was asked a question recently about runaway trim.
What would I do if it happened?
I have tried flying the -10 with the trim held to see just what happens. I
cruise flight, the out of trim condition happens so fast and the forces on
the stick quickly overwhelm the pilots ability to control the aircraft.
Realizing what is going on would be a surprise to the pilot and once it
happened, flying the airplane becomes the dominate focus item. Stopping
the runaway by pulling a fuse or some other action would most likely not
happen.
This question does not necessarily apply only to the -10. It could happen
on any aircraft.
That being said:
(1) Has anyone ever heard of a runaway condition actually happening? if so
what was the outcome?
(2) Is there a stand-alone device that could be put into the trim circuit
that is powered by the power going to the trim motor that would (A) prevent
the motor from running for an extended time and (B) alert the pilot to the
runaway condition. This would be downstream from the switch or controlling
electronics.
Jim Combs
N312F (1000+ hours)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Run-away trim question |
You can install the TCW trim controller and it will address the issue of
run away trim. I know it will do more, but here are some basics.
1) It will limit the time that the servo is active to just a few seconds.
Then disconnect the trim requiring to re-engage the switch to activate the
servo for a few more seconds. This prevents a stuck switch to run the
servo to full travel and your trim to full defection.
2) It has a sense circuit built into it that senses where there is a short
in a wire causing the servo to run. Then provides a switch that allows
you to reverse the travel of the servo through a momentary switch to bring
the servo back to its normal spot; then it disconnects the servo from the
buss. Thus locking the servo in a more neutral position.
3) It also has a two-speed option so you don't have to drive your servo at
full speed. This brings the trim adjustments down to a slower and more
reasonable speed when you're really scooting through the air.
Phil
On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was asked a question recently about runaway trim.
>
> What would I do if it happened?
>
> I have tried flying the -10 with the trim held to see just what happens.
> I cruise flight, the out of trim condition happens so fast and the forces
> on the stick quickly overwhelm the pilots ability to control the aircraft.
> Realizing what is going on would be a surprise to the pilot and once it
> happened, flying the airplane becomes the dominate focus item. Stopping
> the runaway by pulling a fuse or some other action would most likely not
> happen.
>
> This question does not necessarily apply only to the -10. It could happen
> on any aircraft.
>
> That being said:
>
> (1) Has anyone ever heard of a runaway condition actually happening? if
> so what was the outcome?
>
> (2) Is there a stand-alone device that could be put into the trim circuit
> that is powered by the power going to the trim motor that would (A) prevent
> the motor from running for an extended time and (B) alert the pilot to the
> runaway condition. This would be downstream from the switch or controlling
> electronics.
>
> Jim Combs
> N312F (1000+ hours)
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Run-away trim question |
Thanks, I will check that out.
Jim C
On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 9:52 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
> You can install the TCW trim controller and it will address the issue of
> run away trim. I know it will do more, but here are some basics.
>
> 1) It will limit the time that the servo is active to just a few seconds.
> Then disconnect the trim requiring to re-engage the switch to activate the
> servo for a few more seconds. This prevents a stuck switch to run the
> servo to full travel and your trim to full defection.
>
> 2) It has a sense circuit built into it that senses where there is a short
> in a wire causing the servo to run. Then provides a switch that allows
> you to reverse the travel of the servo through a momentary switch to bring
> the servo back to its normal spot; then it disconnects the servo from the
> buss. Thus locking the servo in a more neutral position.
>
> 3) It also has a two-speed option so you don't have to drive your servo at
> full speed. This brings the trim adjustments down to a slower and more
> reasonable speed when you're really scooting through the air.
>
> Phil
>
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I was asked a question recently about runaway trim.
>>
>> What would I do if it happened?
>>
>> I have tried flying the -10 with the trim held to see just what happens.
>> I cruise flight, the out of trim condition happens so fast and the forces
>> on the stick quickly overwhelm the pilots ability to control the aircraft.
>> Realizing what is going on would be a surprise to the pilot and once it
>> happened, flying the airplane becomes the dominate focus item. Stopping
>> the runaway by pulling a fuse or some other action would most likely not
>> happen.
>>
>> This question does not necessarily apply only to the -10. It could
>> happen on any aircraft.
>>
>> That being said:
>>
>> (1) Has anyone ever heard of a runaway condition actually happening? if
>> so what was the outcome?
>>
>> (2) Is there a stand-alone device that could be put into the trim circuit
>> that is powered by the power going to the trim motor that would (A) prevent
>> the motor from running for an extended time and (B) alert the pilot to the
>> runaway condition. This would be downstream from the switch or controlling
>> electronics.
>>
>> Jim Combs
>> N312F (1000+ hours)
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Run-away trim question |
Well, I had a complete elevator trim failure, not runaway, and fortunately
I discovered I had the problem shortly after lift-off, so did not allow
speed to get much above 120.
Due to some dufus builder error, the cotter pin for the bellcrank bolt on
the trim assembly fell out, the nut backed off, and the bolt worked its way
out, so the bellcrank did not have any leverage and helped nothing. The
resulting trim was somewhere around landing configuration nose up. The
stick force was under 10 lbs., easy to hold with one hand for the 15 min
flight I had back to home drome. Yes, I suppose you could have runaway
trim, that the surprise factor would be main event. Between stick force and
throttle, you can control the force involved.
No, I would not want to be IFR. However, I found that in my case, my Dynon
autopilot had no trouble holding the airplane...although I chose not to do
that for more than long enough to see if it could. I didn't want to risk
failure of the shear pin, and stress the servo.
Yes, I fixed the problem, with just the difficulty of getting my old,
creaky body back in the tail cone and reassembling parts that I couldn't
get a good view. Now to go punish that doofus builder..............
Sent from my IBM-360 main frame
On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 6:40 AM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was asked a question recently about runaway trim.
>
> What would I do if it happened?
>
> I have tried flying the -10 with the trim held to see just what happens.
> I cruise flight, the out of trim condition happens so fast and the forces
> on the stick quickly overwhelm the pilots ability to control the aircraft.
> Realizing what is going on would be a surprise to the pilot and once it
> happened, flying the airplane becomes the dominate focus item. Stopping
> the runaway by pulling a fuse or some other action would most likely not
> happen.
>
> This question does not necessarily apply only to the -10. It could happen
> on any aircraft.
>
> That being said:
>
> (1) Has anyone ever heard of a runaway condition actually happening? if
> so what was the outcome?
>
> (2) Is there a stand-alone device that could be put into the trim circuit
> that is powered by the power going to the trim motor that would (A) prevent
> the motor from running for an extended time and (B) alert the pilot to the
> runaway condition. This would be downstream from the switch or controlling
> electronics.
>
> Jim Combs
> N312F (1000+ hours)
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Run-away trim question |
Also realize that if you=99re using either Garmin or
Dynon=99s integrated autopilots with the Auto Trim wired through
their respective A/P=99s, you also get trim motor timing limits
(which in effect is the same function) along with the trim speed
scheduling. The Safety Trim is an excellent box as a standalone device,
but becomes redundant if you have either the Garmin or Dynon integrated
A/P (with the respective controllers).
Just my 2 cents as usual.
Cheers,
Stein
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of Jim Combs
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Run-away trim question
Thanks, I will check that out.
Jim C
On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 9:52 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com
<mailto:philperry9@gmail.com> > wrote:
You can install the TCW trim controller and it will address the issue of
run away trim. I know it will do more, but here are some basics.
1) It will limit the time that the servo is active to just a few
seconds. Then disconnect the trim requiring to re-engage the switch to
activate the servo for a few more seconds. This prevents a stuck
switch to run the servo to full travel and your trim to full defection.
2) It has a sense circuit built into it that senses where there is a
short in a wire causing the servo to run. Then provides a switch that
allows you to reverse the travel of the servo through a momentary switch
to bring the servo back to its normal spot; then it disconnects the
servo from the buss. Thus locking the servo in a more neutral position.
3) It also has a two-speed option so you don't have to drive your servo
at full speed. This brings the trim adjustments down to a slower and
more reasonable speed when you're really scooting through the air.
Phil
On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky@gmail.com
<mailto:jiminlexky@gmail.com> > wrote:
I was asked a question recently about runaway trim.
What would I do if it happened?
I have tried flying the -10 with the trim held to see just what happens.
I cruise flight, the out of trim condition happens so fast and the
forces on the stick quickly overwhelm the pilots ability to control the
aircraft. Realizing what is going on would be a surprise to the pilot
and once it happened, flying the airplane becomes the dominate focus
item. Stopping the runaway by pulling a fuse or some other action would
most likely not happen.
This question does not necessarily apply only to the -10. It could
happen on any aircraft.
That being said:
(1) Has anyone ever heard of a runaway condition actually happening? if
so what was the outcome?
(2) Is there a stand-alone device that could be put into the trim
circuit that is powered by the power going to the trim motor that would
(A) prevent the motor from running for an extended time and (B) alert
the pilot to the runaway condition. This would be downstream from the
switch or controlling electronics.
Jim Combs
N312F (1000+ hours)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Run-away trim question |
So I looked into the TCW solution and I still consider this to be a single
point of failure. Note: I am NOT in any way bashing the TCW solution. It
still has power supplied to it and can run the the trim servo IF IT
FAILED. But it does have a separate power switch along with the airspeed
speed switch. Both of which I like, so I will be installing that in the
-10.
I have been driving my trim through a DPDT On - Off - On momentary switch
and have had no issues with it. Having the speed select will be a nice
addition. I also like the TCW Flap system. So I think some upgrades are
in order for the -10.
Thanks,
Jim C
So Kelly, does the IBM 360 heat the house too? Just wondering.
On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 10:29 AM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, I had a complete elevator trim failure, not runaway, and fortunately
> I discovered I had the problem shortly after lift-off, so did not allow
> speed to get much above 120.
> Due to some dufus builder error, the cotter pin for the bellcrank bolt on
> the trim assembly fell out, the nut backed off, and the bolt worked its way
> out, so the bellcrank did not have any leverage and helped nothing. The
> resulting trim was somewhere around landing configuration nose up. The
> stick force was under 10 lbs., easy to hold with one hand for the 15 min
> flight I had back to home drome. Yes, I suppose you could have runaway
> trim, that the surprise factor would be main event. Between stick force and
> throttle, you can control the force involved.
> No, I would not want to be IFR. However, I found that in my case, my
> Dynon autopilot had no trouble holding the airplane...although I chose not
> to do that for more than long enough to see if it could. I didn't want to
> risk failure of the shear pin, and stress the servo.
> Yes, I fixed the problem, with just the difficulty of getting my old,
> creaky body back in the tail cone and reassembling parts that I couldn't
> get a good view. Now to go punish that doofus builder..............
>
> Sent from my IBM-360 main frame
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 6:40 AM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I was asked a question recently about runaway trim.
>>
>> What would I do if it happened?
>>
>> I have tried flying the -10 with the trim held to see just what happens.
>> I cruise flight, the out of trim condition happens so fast and the forces
>> on the stick quickly overwhelm the pilots ability to control the aircraft.
>> Realizing what is going on would be a surprise to the pilot and once it
>> happened, flying the airplane becomes the dominate focus item. Stopping
>> the runaway by pulling a fuse or some other action would most likely not
>> happen.
>>
>> This question does not necessarily apply only to the -10. It could
>> happen on any aircraft.
>>
>> That being said:
>>
>> (1) Has anyone ever heard of a runaway condition actually happening? if
>> so what was the outcome?
>>
>> (2) Is there a stand-alone device that could be put into the trim circuit
>> that is powered by the power going to the trim motor that would (A) prevent
>> the motor from running for an extended time and (B) alert the pilot to the
>> runaway condition. This would be downstream from the switch or controlling
>> electronics.
>>
>> Jim Combs
>> N312F (1000+ hours)
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Run-away trim question |
I have the Advanced Flight System and A/P. No A/P Trim.
Pondering the ADSB upgrade but that is a different thread.
Thanks, Jim C
On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 10:34 AM, Stein Bruch <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
> Also realize that if you=99re using either Garmin or Dynon=99
s integrated
> autopilots with the Auto Trim wired through their respective A/P=99
s, you
> also get trim motor timing limits (which in effect is the same function)
> along with the trim speed scheduling. The Safety Trim is an excellent bo
x
> as a standalone device, but becomes redundant if you have either the Garm
in
> or Dynon integrated A/P (with the respective controllers).
>
>
> Just my 2 cents as usual.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stein
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server@
> matronics.com> *On Behalf Of *Jim Combs
> *Sent:* Friday, June 22, 2018 9:03 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Run-away trim question
>
>
> Thanks, I will check that out.
>
>
> Jim C
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 9:52 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> You can install the TCW trim controller and it will address the issue of
> run away trim. I know it will do more, but here are some basics.
>
>
> 1) It will limit the time that the servo is active to just a few seconds.
> Then disconnect the trim requiring to re-engage the switch to activate th
e
> servo for a few more seconds. This prevents a stuck switch to run the
> servo to full travel and your trim to full defection.
>
>
> 2) It has a sense circuit built into it that senses where there is a shor
t
> in a wire causing the servo to run. Then provides a switch that allows
> you to reverse the travel of the servo through a momentary switch to brin
g
> the servo back to its normal spot; then it disconnects the servo from the
> buss. Thus locking the servo in a more neutral position.
>
>
> 3) It also has a two-speed option so you don't have to drive your servo a
t
> full speed. This brings the trim adjustments down to a slower and more
> reasonable speed when you're really scooting through the air.
>
>
> Phil
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I was asked a question recently about runaway trim.
>
>
> What would I do if it happened?
>
>
> I have tried flying the -10 with the trim held to see just what happens.
> I cruise flight, the out of trim condition happens so fast and the forces
> on the stick quickly overwhelm the pilots ability to control the aircraft
.
> Realizing what is going on would be a surprise to the pilot and once it
> happened, flying the airplane becomes the dominate focus item. Stopping
> the runaway by pulling a fuse or some other action would most likely not
> happen.
>
>
> This question does not necessarily apply only to the -10. It could happe
n
> on any aircraft.
>
>
> That being said:
>
>
> (1) Has anyone ever heard of a runaway condition actually happening? if
> so what was the outcome?
>
>
> (2) Is there a stand-alone device that could be put into the trim circuit
> that is powered by the power going to the trim motor that would (A) preve
nt
> the motor from running for an extended time and (B) alert the pilot to th
e
> runaway condition. This would be downstream from the switch or controlli
ng
> electronics.
>
>
> Jim Combs
>
> N312F (1000+ hours)
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Run-away trim question |
If you add the Dynon module, you can get the trim control as long as you ha
ve the Dynon servos.
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server@matronic
s.com> on behalf of Jim Combs <jiminlexky@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 10:51:48 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Run-away trim question
I have the Advanced Flight System and A/P. No A/P Trim.
Pondering the ADSB upgrade but that is a different thread.
Thanks, Jim C
On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 10:34 AM, Stein Bruch <stein@steinair.com<mailto:st
ein@steinair.com>> wrote:
Also realize that if you=92re using either Garmin or Dynon=92s integrated a
utopilots with the Auto Trim wired through their respective A/P=92s, you al
so get trim motor timing limits (which in effect is the same function) alon
g with the trim speed scheduling. The Safety Trim is an excellent box as a
standalone device, but becomes redundant if you have either the Garmin or
Dynon integrated A/P (with the respective controllers).
Just my 2 cents as usual.
Cheers,
Stein
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@ma
tronics.com> <owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-rv10-list-s
erver@matronics.com>> On Behalf Of Jim Combs
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Run-away trim question
Thanks, I will check that out.
Jim C
On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 9:52 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com<mailto
:philperry9@gmail.com>> wrote:
You can install the TCW trim controller and it will address the issue of ru
n away trim. I know it will do more, but here are some basics.
1) It will limit the time that the servo is active to just a few seconds.
Then disconnect the trim requiring to re-engage the switch to activate the
servo for a few more seconds. This prevents a stuck switch to run the ser
vo to full travel and your trim to full defection.
2) It has a sense circuit built into it that senses where there is a short
in a wire causing the servo to run. Then provides a switch that allows yo
u to reverse the travel of the servo through a momentary switch to bring th
e servo back to its normal spot; then it disconnects the servo from the bus
s. Thus locking the servo in a more neutral position.
3) It also has a two-speed option so you don't have to drive your servo at
full speed. This brings the trim adjustments down to a slower and more rea
sonable speed when you're really scooting through the air.
Phil
On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky@gmail.com<mailto:jim
inlexky@gmail.com>> wrote:
I was asked a question recently about runaway trim.
What would I do if it happened?
I have tried flying the -10 with the trim held to see just what happens. I
cruise flight, the out of trim condition happens so fast and the forces on
the stick quickly overwhelm the pilots ability to control the aircraft. R
ealizing what is going on would be a surprise to the pilot and once it happ
ened, flying the airplane becomes the dominate focus item. Stopping the ru
naway by pulling a fuse or some other action would most likely not happen.
This question does not necessarily apply only to the -10. It could happen
on any aircraft.
That being said:
(1) Has anyone ever heard of a runaway condition actually happening? if so
what was the outcome?
(2) Is there a stand-alone device that could be put into the trim circuit t
hat is powered by the power going to the trim motor that would (A) prevent
the motor from running for an extended time and (B) alert the pilot to the
runaway condition. This would be downstream from the switch or controlling
electronics.
Jim Combs
N312F (1000+ hours)
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Run-away trim question |
Hmm, some Dynon things are compatible, don't know if their autopilot
control panel is among those things. Worth asking.
On 6/22/2018 7:51 AM, Jim Combs wrote:
> I have the Advanced Flight System and A/P. No A/P Trim.
>
> Pondering the ADSB upgrade but that is a different thread.
>
> Thanks, Jim C
>
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 10:34 AM, Stein Bruch <stein@steinair.com
> <mailto:stein@steinair.com>> wrote:
>
> Also realize that if youre using either Garmin or Dynons
> integrated autopilots with the Auto Trim wired through their
> respective A/Ps, you also get trim motor timing limits (which in
> effect is the same function) along with the trim speed scheduling.
> The Safety Trim is an excellent box as a standalone device, but
> becomes redundant if you have either the Garmin or Dynon integrated
> A/P (with the respective controllers).____
>
> __ __
>
> Just my 2 cents as usual.____
>
> __ __
>
> Cheers,____
>
> Stein____
>
> __ __
>
> __ __
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> <owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>> *On Behalf Of *Jim Combs
> *Sent:* Friday, June 22, 2018 9:03 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Run-away trim question____
>
> __ __
>
> Thanks, I will check that out.____
>
> __ __
>
> Jim C____
>
> __ __
>
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 9:52 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com
> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>> wrote:____
>
> You can install the TCW trim controller and it will address the
> issue of run away trim. I know it will do more, but here are
> some basics.____
>
> __ __
>
> 1) It will limit the time that the servo is active to just a few
> seconds. Then disconnect the trim requiring to re-engage the
> switch to activate the servo for a few more seconds. This
> prevents a stuck switch to run the servo to full travel and your
> trim to full defection.____
>
> __ __
>
> 2) It has a sense circuit built into it that senses where there
> is a short in a wire causing the servo to run. Then provides a
> switch that allows you to reverse the travel of the servo
> through a momentary switch to bring the servo back to its normal
> spot; then it disconnects the servo from the buss. Thus locking
> the servo in a more neutral position.____
>
> __ __
>
> 3) It also has a two-speed option so you don't have to drive
> your servo at full speed. This brings the trim adjustments down
> to a slower and more reasonable speed when you're really
> scooting through the air.____
>
> __ __
>
> Phil____
>
> __ __
>
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky@gmail.com
> <mailto:jiminlexky@gmail.com>> wrote:____
>
> I was asked a question recently about runaway trim.____
>
> __ __
>
> What would I do if it happened?____
>
> __ __
>
> I have tried flying the -10 with the trim held to see just
> what happens. I cruise flight, the out of trim condition
> happens so fast and the forces on the stick quickly
> overwhelm the pilots ability to control the aircraft.
> Realizing what is going on would be a surprise to the pilot
> and once it happened, flying the airplane becomes the
> dominate focus item. Stopping the runaway by pulling a fuse
> or some other action would most likely not happen.____
>
> __ __
>
> This question does not necessarily apply only to the -10.
> It could happen on any aircraft.____
>
> __ __
>
> That being said:____
>
> __ __
>
> (1) Has anyone ever heard of a runaway condition actually
> happening? if so what was the outcome? ____
>
> __ __
>
> (2) Is there a stand-alone device that could be put into the
> trim circuit that is powered by the power going to the trim
> motor that would (A) prevent the motor from running for an
> extended time and (B) alert the pilot to the runaway
> condition. This would be downstream from the switch or
> controlling electronics.____
>
> __ __
>
> Jim Combs____
>
> N312F (1000+ hours) ____
>
> __ __
>
> __ __
>
> __ __
>
> __ __
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Spinner Cracks |
As requested, I took some photos today. We also pulled the assembly and found cracks
at every bolt - on both sides. I've ordered new parts, but it's obvious
that it was just a matter of time. I will attach one sample photo, they all look
pretty much the same.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=481105#481105
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/samplecrack1_171.jpg
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Run-away trim question |
You absolutely want trim speed control. The stock, full speed, is about right for
low (takeoff, landing) speeds but runs way too fast at cruise. I have a Trio
Pro autopilot. Not only does it auto-trim when engaged; you can use it to trim
manually, too, when the servos are not engaged. It contains a programable with
airspeed speed control, too. So my routine is to use the stick switch for
takeoff/landing trim (full speed); I use the Trio knob for fine trim adjustments
in cruise. I put no top hat on the copilot stick, to prevent accidental trim
commands. Right seat pilots have to use a panel mounted rocker switch. I put
both AP and trim CBs right in front of the pilot, marked with a colored line.
How fast could I pull them, given no warning? I dont know.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=481106#481106
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Run-away trim question |
It is..... I know several people that have it installed. Some features
/functions may vary depending if you have Dynon servos versus Trutrak.
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server@matronic
s.com> on behalf of Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 11:08:28 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Run-away trim question
Hmm, some Dynon things are compatible, don't know if their autopilot
control panel is among those things. Worth asking.
On 6/22/2018 7:51 AM, Jim Combs wrote:
> I have the Advanced Flight System and A/P. No A/P Trim.
>
> Pondering the ADSB upgrade but that is a different thread.
>
> Thanks, Jim C
>
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 10:34 AM, Stein Bruch <stein@steinair.com
> <mailto:stein@steinair.com>> wrote:
>
> Also realize that if you=92re using either Garmin or Dynon=92s
> integrated autopilots with the Auto Trim wired through their
> respective A/P=92s, you also get trim motor timing limits (which in
> effect is the same function) along with the trim speed scheduling.
> The Safety Trim is an excellent box as a standalone device, but
> becomes redundant if you have either the Garmin or Dynon integrated
> A/P (with the respective controllers).____
>
> __ __
>
> Just my 2 cents as usual.____
>
> __ __
>
> Cheers,____
>
> Stein____
>
> __ __
>
> __ __
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> <owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>> *On Behalf Of *Jim Com
bs
> *Sent:* Friday, June 22, 2018 9:03 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Run-away trim question____
>
> __ __
>
> Thanks, I will check that out.____
>
> __ __
>
> Jim C____
>
> __ __
>
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 9:52 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com
> <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>> wrote:____
>
> You can install the TCW trim controller and it will address the
> issue of run away trim. I know it will do more, but here are
> some basics.____
>
> __ __
>
> 1) It will limit the time that the servo is active to just a few
> seconds. Then disconnect the trim requiring to re-engage the
> switch to activate the servo for a few more seconds. This
> prevents a stuck switch to run the servo to full travel and your
> trim to full defection.____
>
> __ __
>
> 2) It has a sense circuit built into it that senses where there
> is a short in a wire causing the servo to run. Then provides a
> switch that allows you to reverse the travel of the servo
> through a momentary switch to bring the servo back to its normal
> spot; then it disconnects the servo from the buss. Thus locking
> the servo in a more neutral position.____
>
> __ __
>
> 3) It also has a two-speed option so you don't have to drive
> your servo at full speed. This brings the trim adjustments down
> to a slower and more reasonable speed when you're really
> scooting through the air.____
>
> __ __
>
> Phil____
>
> __ __
>
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky@gmail.com
> <mailto:jiminlexky@gmail.com>> wrote:____
>
> I was asked a question recently about runaway trim.____
>
> __ __
>
> What would I do if it happened?____
>
> __ __
>
> I have tried flying the -10 with the trim held to see just
> what happens. I cruise flight, the out of trim condition
> happens so fast and the forces on the stick quickly
> overwhelm the pilots ability to control the aircraft.
> Realizing what is going on would be a surprise to the pilot
> and once it happened, flying the airplane becomes the
> dominate focus item. Stopping the runaway by pulling a fuse
> or some other action would most likely not happen.____
>
> __ __
>
> This question does not necessarily apply only to the -10.
> It could happen on any aircraft.____
>
> __ __
>
> That being said:____
>
> __ __
>
> (1) Has anyone ever heard of a runaway condition actually
> happening? if so what was the outcome? ____
>
> __ __
>
> (2) Is there a stand-alone device that could be put into the
> trim circuit that is powered by the power going to the trim
> motor that would (A) prevent the motor from running for an
> extended time and (B) alert the pilot to the runaway
> condition. This would be downstream from the switch or
> controlling electronics.____
>
> __ __
>
> Jim Combs____
>
> N312F (1000+ hours) ____
>
> __ __
>
> __ __
>
> __ __
>
> __ __
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Run-away trim question |
Thanks to those that mentioned our Safety trim controller. One bit of tri
via regarding the concept of single point failure. Even though our device i
s =9Cone box=9D inside the unit there=99s actually three s
eparate series circuits which would have to all fail to provide an uncommand
ed operation of the servo. As a result after 10 years in the field we h
ave had zero issues resulting in unwanted motion even in the face of a varie
ty of builder mistakes and mis-applications.
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies, LLC
610-928-3420
> On Jun 22, 2018, at 10:02 AM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks, I will check that out.
>
> Jim C
>
>> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 9:52 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wro
te:
>> You can install the TCW trim controller and it will address the issue of r
un away trim. I know it will do more, but here are some basics.
>>
>> 1) It will limit the time that the servo is active to just a few seconds.
Then disconnect the trim requiring to re-engage the switch to activate the
servo for a few more seconds. This prevents a stuck switch to run the ser
vo to full travel and your trim to full defection.
>>
>> 2) It has a sense circuit built into it that senses where there is a shor
t in a wire causing the servo to run. Then provides a switch that allows y
ou to reverse the travel of the servo through a momentary switch to bring th
e servo back to its normal spot; then it disconnects the servo from the buss
. Thus locking the servo in a more neutral position.
>>
>> 3) It also has a two-speed option so you don't have to drive your servo a
t full speed. This brings the trim adjustments down to a slower and more re
asonable speed when you're really scooting through the air.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I was asked a question recently about runaway trim.
>>>
>>> What would I do if it happened?
>>>
>>> I have tried flying the -10 with the trim held to see just what happens.
I cruise flight, the out of trim condition happens so fast and the forces o
n the stick quickly overwhelm the pilots ability to control the aircraft. R
ealizing what is going on would be a surprise to the pilot and once it happe
ned, flying the airplane becomes the dominate focus item. Stopping the runa
way by pulling a fuse or some other action would most likely not happen.
>>>
>>> This question does not necessarily apply only to the -10. It could happ
en on any aircraft.
>>>
>>> That being said:
>>>
>>> (1) Has anyone ever heard of a runaway condition actually happening? if
so what was the outcome?
>>>
>>> (2) Is there a stand-alone device that could be put into the trim circui
t that is powered by the power going to the trim motor that would (A) preven
t the motor from running for an extended time and (B) alert the pilot to the
runaway condition. This would be downstream from the switch or controlling
electronics.
>>>
>>> Jim Combs
>>> N312F (1000+ hours)
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Run-away trim question |
Bob, Thanks for that bit of feedback. I am a retired electrical
engineer. That bit of information should be shared on your website.
I am planning or ordering that and the flap controller in the next few days
.
Jim C
On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 4:13 PM, Tcwtech <rnewman@tcwtech.com> wrote:
> Thanks to those that mentioned our Safety trim controller. One bit of
> trivia regarding the concept of single point failure. Even though our
> device is =9Cone box=9D inside the unit there=99s actua
lly three separate series
> circuits which would have to all fail to provide an uncommanded operation
> of the servo. As a result after 10 years in the field we have had ze
ro
> issues resulting in unwanted motion even in the face of a variety of
> builder mistakes and mis-applications.
>
>
> Bob Newman
> TCW Technologies, LLC
> 610-928-3420
>
> On Jun 22, 2018, at 10:02 AM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks, I will check that out.
>
> Jim C
>
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 9:52 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> You can install the TCW trim controller and it will address the issue of
>> run away trim. I know it will do more, but here are some basics.
>>
>> 1) It will limit the time that the servo is active to just a few
>> seconds. Then disconnect the trim requiring to re-engage the switch to
>> activate the servo for a few more seconds. This prevents a stuck switc
h
>> to run the servo to full travel and your trim to full defection.
>>
>> 2) It has a sense circuit built into it that senses where there is a
>> short in a wire causing the servo to run. Then provides a switch that
>> allows you to reverse the travel of the servo through a momentary switch
to
>> bring the servo back to its normal spot; then it disconnects the servo f
rom
>> the buss. Thus locking the servo in a more neutral position.
>>
>> 3) It also has a two-speed option so you don't have to drive your servo
>> at full speed. This brings the trim adjustments down to a slower and mo
re
>> reasonable speed when you're really scooting through the air.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I was asked a question recently about runaway trim.
>>>
>>> What would I do if it happened?
>>>
>>> I have tried flying the -10 with the trim held to see just what
>>> happens. I cruise flight, the out of trim condition happens so fast an
d
>>> the forces on the stick quickly overwhelm the pilots ability to control
the
>>> aircraft. Realizing what is going on would be a surprise to the pilot
and
>>> once it happened, flying the airplane becomes the dominate focus item.
>>> Stopping the runaway by pulling a fuse or some other action would most
>>> likely not happen.
>>>
>>> This question does not necessarily apply only to the -10. It could
>>> happen on any aircraft.
>>>
>>> That being said:
>>>
>>> (1) Has anyone ever heard of a runaway condition actually happening? i
f
>>> so what was the outcome?
>>>
>>> (2) Is there a stand-alone device that could be put into the trim
>>> circuit that is powered by the power going to the trim motor that would
(A)
>>> prevent the motor from running for an extended time and (B) alert the p
ilot
>>> to the runaway condition. This would be downstream from the switch or
>>> controlling electronics.
>>>
>>> Jim Combs
>>> N312F (1000+ hours)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: Run-away trim question |
Hey Jim, on my RV10 site I have an old write-up from when I put in safety-Tr
im. There may be more info there that you may want to check out also. I hav
e mine set up with an airspeed switch and also a flap switch which I like ve
ry much and did the same on my RV14 as I did the -10.
You=99ll be happy with the trim controller and wiring is easier than t
he relays you probably have now.
Tim
> On Jun 22, 2018, at 5:15 PM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Bob, Thanks for that bit of feedback. I am a retired electrical engineer
. That bit of information should be shared on your website.
>
> I am planning or ordering that and the flap controller in the next few day
s.
>
> Jim C
>
>> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 4:13 PM, Tcwtech <rnewman@tcwtech.com> wrote:
>> Thanks to those that mentioned our Safety trim controller. One bit of t
rivia regarding the concept of single point failure. Even though our devic
e is =9Cone box=9D inside the unit there=99s actually thre
e separate series circuits which would have to all fail to provide an uncomm
anded operation of the servo. As a result after 10 years in the field w
e have had zero issues resulting in unwanted motion even in the face of a va
riety of builder mistakes and mis-applications.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob Newman
>> TCW Technologies, LLC
>> 610-928-3420
>>
>>> On Jun 22, 2018, at 10:02 AM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, I will check that out.
>>>
>>> Jim C
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 9:52 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> w
rote:
>>>> You can install the TCW trim controller and it will address the issue o
f run away trim. I know it will do more, but here are some basics.
>>>>
>>>> 1) It will limit the time that the servo is active to just a few second
s. Then disconnect the trim requiring to re-engage the switch to activate t
he servo for a few more seconds. This prevents a stuck switch to run the s
ervo to full travel and your trim to full defection.
>>>>
>>>> 2) It has a sense circuit built into it that senses where there is a sh
ort in a wire causing the servo to run. Then provides a switch that allows
you to reverse the travel of the servo through a momentary switch to bring t
he servo back to its normal spot; then it disconnects the servo from the bus
s. Thus locking the servo in a more neutral position.
>>>>
>>>> 3) It also has a two-speed option so you don't have to drive your servo
at full speed. This brings the trim adjustments down to a slower and more r
easonable speed when you're really scooting through the air.
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky@gmail.com> wrot
e:
>>>>> I was asked a question recently about runaway trim.
>>>>>
>>>>> What would I do if it happened?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have tried flying the -10 with the trim held to see just what happen
s. I cruise flight, the out of trim condition happens so fast and the force
s on the stick quickly overwhelm the pilots ability to control the aircraft.
Realizing what is going on would be a surprise to the pilot and once it ha
ppened, flying the airplane becomes the dominate focus item. Stopping the r
unaway by pulling a fuse or some other action would most likely not happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> This question does not necessarily apply only to the -10. It could ha
ppen on any aircraft.
>>>>>
>>>>> That being said:
>>>>>
>>>>> (1) Has anyone ever heard of a runaway condition actually happening? i
f so what was the outcome?
>>>>>
>>>>> (2) Is there a stand-alone device that could be put into the trim circ
uit that is powered by the power going to the trim motor that would (A) prev
ent the motor from running for an extended time and (B) alert the pilot to t
he runaway condition. This would be downstream from the switch or controlli
ng electronics.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim Combs
>>>>> N312F (1000+ hours)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
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