Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:22 AM - Re: Antenna locations (Bob Turner)
2. 05:50 AM - Re: Antenna locations (Carl Froehlich)
3. 06:02 AM - Re: Antenna locations (Jack Philips)
4. 06:47 AM - Re: Antenna locations (Kelly McMullen)
5. 06:48 AM - Re: Antenna locations (Kelly McMullen)
6. 07:06 AM - Re: Antenna locations (Kevin Belue)
7. 07:19 AM - Re: Antenna locations (Tim Olson)
8. 08:16 AM - Re: Antenna locations (David Carr)
9. 10:12 AM - Re: Antenna locations (Bill Watson)
10. 12:57 PM - Re: Antenna locations (Bob Turner)
11. 02:15 PM - Re: Antenna locations (tsts4)
12. 02:51 PM - Re: Re: Antenna locations (Tim Olson)
13. 04:08 PM - Re: Re: Antenna locations (Kelly McMullen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
GPS antenna on top of empenage aft of baggage area.
ELT aft of gps.
Transponder under pilot seat.
COM 1 under right rear passenger seat. (Bent whip).
COM 2 in right wingtip.
VOR/GS in left wingtip.
ADSB-in antennas on forward fiberglass doorposts (just aft of windscreen).
GPS (adsb-in Skyradar) and xm antenna on glareshield.
Belly antenna on the ground? I think one time ground couldnt hear me, just switched
to com 2.
Marker Beacon? Going the way of the Dodo. GPS provides these fixes.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=481940#481940
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
No issue with tower hearing me - ever.
The one antenna on the top and one on the bottom is a Boeing 747 consideration
- and not applicable to RVs. The common concept is VHF transmissions are line
of sight. This is not exactly correct. While the antenna radiates in a somewhat
Omni directional pattern, some of the RF energy will be reflected off all
surrounded surfaces - like the ground. A nearby tower or getting clearance from
an airport near where you are are not problems.
As example, I pick up the AWOS from a nearby airport while in my hangar, and there
is a hill between the airplane and the airport.
The only time I pick up a Marker Beacon is when I fly over one of the few airports
that still have one. I have never done an instrumented approach that had
a marker beacon. I was talked into getting and audio panel with the marker beacon
receiver when building and before routinely flying IFR - that was a mistake.
The new RV-8 project will not have one.
The one change I will do on the RV-8 is to move the GTN-650 GPS antenna to aft
of the cockpit on top of the fuselage (under the canopy glass). The GTN-650 can
be finicky. While it has worked well for me on top of the glare shield, talking
with people whos opinion I value I decided this might reduce any potential
RFI issues (the GTN-650 has known RFI problems and I chased one myself). You
will find the SkyView GPS antenna/receiver to overall work better - it will
go on top of the glare shield like the RV-10.
Carl
> On Jul 30, 2018, at 2:05 AM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks! No issues with talking to tower on the ground with belly antennas?
Im planning to go Skyview as well. No more marker beacons because GPS supplants
the need for them?
>
> Steve
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 15:29, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Two bent whip comm antennas on the belly, one behind the other, one on the left
side of the tunnel floor and one on the right side of the tunnel floor. That
way you can get to the antennas and the coax feed lines, and they do not interfere
with the elevator push tube.
>>
>> Transponder antenna under the passenger seat.
>>
>> ADS-B antenna on the belly aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead. I mount
the ADS-B receiver there as well. It is wired with a single four conductor shielded
wire (SkyView system).
>>
>> Home brew wingtip NAV/LOC/GS antenna (picks up VORs at 100+ miles).
>>
>> ELT antenna under the empennage fairing.
>>
>> GTN-650 GPS antenna and SkyView integrated GPS antenna and receiver mounted
on top of the glare shield.
>>
>> Marker beacon antenna is a 31 piece of wire running under the engine with tie
wraps, connected at the firewall via a BNC bulkhead connector. While this works
well, I will never again put a marker beacon receiver in an airplane.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas? Im
getting to the point where Im closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax
run to the right places.
>>>
>>> GPS: into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?
>>> COM1/COM2: bottom somewhere? One on top and one on bottom? Where do you
put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?
>>> NAV: whiskers on the VS? Wingtip? Does this cover glide slope reception
too? Marker beacon?
>>> ELT: out the top in the tailcone?
>>>
>>> ADS-B/Transponder? Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?
>>>
>>> Thanks for the advice!
>>> Steven DeFord
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Antenna locations |
The FAA is phasing out Marker Beacons, as they are phasing out NDBs I kind of
like Marker beacons - I find it reassuring to hear the steady "Beep, Beep, Beep..."
as I fly an approach, just giving a little indication that I am flying the
approach correctly. Of course, with GPS and apps like Foreflight, situational
awareness is much easier now than it used to be, hence the lack of need for
MB's.
Jack Phillips
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
Kit # 40610 - on the final push, hoping to fly by the end of the year
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven DeFord
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 2:05 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Antenna locations
Thanks! No issues with talking to tower on the ground with belly antennas? Im
planning to go Skyview as well. No more marker beacons because GPS supplants
the need for them?
Steve
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 29, 2018, at 15:29, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> --> <carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
>
> Two bent whip comm antennas on the belly, one behind the other, one on the left
side of the tunnel floor and one on the right side of the tunnel floor. That
way you can get to the antennas and the coax feed lines, and they do not interfere
with the elevator push tube.
>
> Transponder antenna under the passenger seat.
>
> ADS-B antenna on the belly aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead. I mount
the ADS-B receiver there as well. It is wired with a single four conductor shielded
wire (SkyView system).
>
> Home brew wingtip NAV/LOC/GS antenna (picks up VORs at 100+ miles).
>
> ELT antenna under the empennage fairing.
>
> GTN-650 GPS antenna and SkyView integrated GPS antenna and receiver mounted on
top of the glare shield.
>
> Marker beacon antenna is a 31 piece of wire running under the engine with tie
wraps, connected at the firewall via a BNC bulkhead connector. While this works
well, I will never again put a marker beacon receiver in an airplane.
>
> Carl
>
>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> --> <riveteddragon@gmail.com>
>>
>> For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas? Im
getting to the point where Im closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax
run to the right places.
>>
>> GPS: into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?
>> COM1/COM2: bottom somewhere? One on top and one on bottom? Where do you put
it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?
>> NAV: whiskers on the VS? Wingtip? Does this cover glide slope reception too?
Marker beacon?
>> ELT: out the top in the tailcone?
>>
>> ADS-B/Transponder? Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?
>>
>> Thanks for the advice!
>> Steven DeFord
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
I too have GTN650 with Skyview. It seems that the TSO protocol does not
allow using satellites with signals below some integrity threshold,
while the Dynon GPS250 can use them. Dynon talks some about this with
their GPS2020 receiver required for ADSB. The difference is such that my
GPS 250 locks on location while sitting in hangar with door open, while
the 650 requires clear view vertically before it will lock on.
A non-aviation GPS will lock while sitting in the back seat of a car.
Just depends on what the integrity of signal and strength of signal
requirements are for the given application. Best to follow suppliers
recommendations for GPS antenna placement if you plan on having IFR
legality or need ADS-B out quality position signals.
I agree that two belly whips works fine. Occasionally a ground control
or clearance delivery won't hear from one antenna. Switch to other radio
has taken care of those issues. No problem at home drome calling ground
from between hangar rows without line of sight.
Kelly
On 7/30/2018 5:48 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> No issue with tower hearing me - ever.
>
> The one antenna on the top and one on the bottom is a Boeing 747 consideration
- and not applicable to RVs. The common concept is VHF transmissions are line
of sight. This is not exactly correct. While the antenna radiates in a somewhat
Omni directional pattern, some of the RF energy will be reflected off all
surrounded surfaces - like the ground. A nearby tower or getting clearance
from an airport near where you are are not problems.
>
> As example, I pick up the AWOS from a nearby airport while in my hangar, and
there is a hill between the airplane and the airport.
>
> The only time I pick up a Marker Beacon is when I fly over one of the few airports
that still have one. I have never done an instrumented approach that had
a marker beacon. I was talked into getting and audio panel with the marker beacon
receiver when building and before routinely flying IFR - that was a mistake.
The new RV-8 project will not have one.
>
> The one change I will do on the RV-8 is to move the GTN-650 GPS antenna to aft
of the cockpit on top of the fuselage (under the canopy glass). The GTN-650
can be finicky. While it has worked well for me on top of the glare shield,
talking with people whos opinion I value I decided this might reduce any potential
RFI issues (the GTN-650 has known RFI problems and I chased one myself).
You will find the SkyView GPS antenna/receiver to overall work better - it will
go on top of the glare shield like the RV-10.
>
> Carl
>
>> On Jul 30, 2018, at 2:05 AM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thanks! No issues with talking to tower on the ground with belly antennas?
Im planning to go Skyview as well. No more marker beacons because GPS supplants
the need for them?
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 15:29, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Two bent whip comm antennas on the belly, one behind the other, one on the
left side of the tunnel floor and one on the right side of the tunnel floor.
That way you can get to the antennas and the coax feed lines, and they do not
interfere with the elevator push tube.
>>>
>>> Transponder antenna under the passenger seat.
>>>
>>> ADS-B antenna on the belly aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead. I mount
the ADS-B receiver there as well. It is wired with a single four conductor
shielded wire (SkyView system).
>>>
>>> Home brew wingtip NAV/LOC/GS antenna (picks up VORs at 100+ miles).
>>>
>>> ELT antenna under the empennage fairing.
>>>
>>> GTN-650 GPS antenna and SkyView integrated GPS antenna and receiver mounted
on top of the glare shield.
>>>
>>> Marker beacon antenna is a 31 piece of wire running under the engine with tie
wraps, connected at the firewall via a BNC bulkhead connector. While this
works well, I will never again put a marker beacon receiver in an airplane.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>>
>>>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas? Im
getting to the point where Im closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax
run to the right places.
>>>>
>>>> GPS: into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?
>>>> COM1/COM2: bottom somewhere? One on top and one on bottom? Where do you
put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?
>>>> NAV: whiskers on the VS? Wingtip? Does this cover glide slope reception
too? Marker beacon?
>>>> ELT: out the top in the tailcone?
>>>>
>>>> ADS-B/Transponder? Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the advice!
>>>> Steven DeFord
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
Yes. I loved both outer and middle markers, because the first told you
to compare GS intercept with altitude, and the second told you it was
time to go missed if you didn't have the required visual clues. All
automatic and audible...no need to watch anything. Also cheap to
maintain. The elimination is just budget window dressing. When the DOD
moves (probably already has) to a different GPS system, the users may
get some reality as to what GPS system really costs, compared to the old
land based system. Yes, much more universal coverage..but launching and
maintaining 20 some satellites plus a few more for WAAS is probably
order of magnitude bigger than land based system IF the FAA ever had to
pay the whole bill. But technology moves on and has us replacing
electronics every 10-15 years instead of every 30 years.
Nostalgia mode off.
Kelly
On 7/30/2018 6:00 AM, Jack Philips wrote:
>
> The FAA is phasing out Marker Beacons, as they are phasing out NDBs I kind of
like Marker beacons - I find it reassuring to hear the steady "Beep, Beep, Beep..."
as I fly an approach, just giving a little indication that I am flying
the approach correctly. Of course, with GPS and apps like Foreflight, situational
awareness is much easier now than it used to be, hence the lack of need
for MB's.
>
> Jack Phillips
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
> Kit # 40610 - on the final push, hoping to fly by the end of the year
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
I have an RV-6A with a com belly ant. Works great most of the time except one time
I was on the ground trying to leave the Destin, FL airport. There you have
to talk to Eglin departure for clearance to take off, which is located several
miles away. I could hear them, but they could not hear me. I had to taxi around
the airport until I could find a high enough spot so they could hear me. I
put an ant on top of my RV10 to alleviate that problem. Why cause yourself more
problems? Just because it works sometimes, doesnt mean it always will.
Sent from my iPhone
>> On Jul 30, 2018, at 2:05 AM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thanks! No issues with talking to tower on the ground with belly antennas?
Im planning to go Skyview as well. No more marker beacons because GPS supplants
the need for them?
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 15:29, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Two bent whip comm antennas on the belly, one behind the other, one on the
left side of the tunnel floor and one on the right side of the tunnel floor.
That way you can get to the antennas and the coax feed lines, and they do not
interfere with the elevator push tube.
>>>
>>> Transponder antenna under the passenger seat.
>>>
>>> ADS-B antenna on the belly aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead. I mount
the ADS-B receiver there as well. It is wired with a single four conductor
shielded wire (SkyView system).
>>>
>>> Home brew wingtip NAV/LOC/GS antenna (picks up VORs at 100+ miles).
>>>
>>> ELT antenna under the empennage fairing.
>>>
>>> GTN-650 GPS antenna and SkyView integrated GPS antenna and receiver mounted
on top of the glare shield.
>>>
>>> Marker beacon antenna is a 31 piece of wire running under the engine with tie
wraps, connected at the firewall via a BNC bulkhead connector. While this
works well, I will never again put a marker beacon receiver in an airplane.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>>
>>>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas? Im
getting to the point where Im closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax
run to the right places.
>>>>
>>>> GPS: into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?
>>>> COM1/COM2: bottom somewhere? One on top and one on bottom? Where do you
put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?
>>>> NAV: whiskers on the VS? Wingtip? Does this cover glide slope reception
too? Marker beacon?
>>>> ELT: out the top in the tailcone?
>>>>
>>>> ADS-B/Transponder? Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the advice!
>>>> Steven DeFord
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
I installed and still use the MB in my planes. I figure when
you're in IMC, ILS approaches still give in most cases the lowest
levels for approach altitudes, so they are a good approach for
really bad days, and an MB audible alert is just one more tool
in the toolbox for keeping you situationally aware. It's just
a run of coax, and a strip of scrap aluminum in my planes, so it
didn't really take much effort, time, or weight to add.
Every tool was designed for a reason, and a marker beacon
is just a nice way to hear where you are without looking.
It also gets me to be aware when I inadvertently fly over
one why x/c to look out for traffic that I may be affecting
when flying by any random airport.
So I don't really see a downside of having one. On the
wrong day though, there could be a downside to not.
Tim
On 07/30/2018 08:46 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Yes. I loved both outer and middle markers, because the first told you
> to compare GS intercept with altitude, and the second told you it was
> time to go missed if you didn't have the required visual clues. All
> automatic and audible...no need to watch anything. Also cheap to
> maintain. The elimination is just budget window dressing. When the DOD
> moves (probably already has) to a different GPS system, the users may
> get some reality as to what GPS system really costs, compared to the old
> land based system. Yes, much more universal coverage..but launching and
> maintaining 20 some satellites plus a few more for WAAS is probably
> order of magnitude bigger than land based system IF the FAA ever had to
> pay the whole bill. But technology moves on and has us replacing
> electronics every 10-15 years instead of every 30 years.
> Nostalgia mode off.
> Kelly
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
FWIW, I do find sometimes that on ground the top antenna gets through when
the belly one wont.
On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 9:17 AM, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
>
> I installed and still use the MB in my planes. I figure when
> you're in IMC, ILS approaches still give in most cases the lowest
> levels for approach altitudes, so they are a good approach for
> really bad days, and an MB audible alert is just one more tool
> in the toolbox for keeping you situationally aware. It's just
> a run of coax, and a strip of scrap aluminum in my planes, so it
> didn't really take much effort, time, or weight to add.
> Every tool was designed for a reason, and a marker beacon
> is just a nice way to hear where you are without looking.
> It also gets me to be aware when I inadvertently fly over
> one why x/c to look out for traffic that I may be affecting
> when flying by any random airport.
>
> So I don't really see a downside of having one. On the
> wrong day though, there could be a downside to not.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 07/30/2018 08:46 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes. I loved both outer and middle markers, because the first told you to
>> compare GS intercept with altitude, and the second told you it was time to
>> go missed if you didn't have the required visual clues. All automatic and
>> audible...no need to watch anything. Also cheap to maintain. The
>> elimination is just budget window dressing. When the DOD moves (probably
>> already has) to a different GPS system, the users may get some reality as
>> to what GPS system really costs, compared to the old land based system.
>> Yes, much more universal coverage..but launching and maintaining 20 some
>> satellites plus a few more for WAAS is probably order of magnitude bigger
>> than land based system IF the FAA ever had to pay the whole bill. But
>> technology moves on and has us replacing electronics every 10-15 years
>> instead of every 30 years.
>> Nostalgia mode off.
>> Kelly
>>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
I have both COM attenna on the bottom, staggered. I can recall one,
maybe two situations where I was not able to communicate while on the
ground. Switching to the other radio, I was able to communicate.
On 7/30/2018 2:05 AM, Steven DeFord wrote:
>
> Thanks! No issues with talking to tower on the ground with belly antennas?
Im planning to go Skyview as well. No more marker beacons because GPS supplants
the need for them?
>
> Steve
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 15:29, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Two bent whip comm antennas on the belly, one behind the other, one on the left
side of the tunnel floor and one on the right side of the tunnel floor. That
way you can get to the antennas and the coax feed lines, and they do not interfere
with the elevator push tube.
>>
>> Transponder antenna under the passenger seat.
>>
>> ADS-B antenna on the belly aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead. I mount
the ADS-B receiver there as well. It is wired with a single four conductor shielded
wire (SkyView system).
>>
>> Home brew wingtip NAV/LOC/GS antenna (picks up VORs at 100+ miles).
>>
>> ELT antenna under the empennage fairing.
>>
>> GTN-650 GPS antenna and SkyView integrated GPS antenna and receiver mounted
on top of the glare shield.
>>
>> Marker beacon antenna is a 31 piece of wire running under the engine with tie
wraps, connected at the firewall via a BNC bulkhead connector. While this works
well, I will never again put a marker beacon receiver in an airplane.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas? Im
getting to the point where Im closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax
run to the right places.
>>>
>>> GPS: into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?
>>> COM1/COM2: bottom somewhere? One on top and one on bottom? Where do you
put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?
>>> NAV: whiskers on the VS? Wingtip? Does this cover glide slope reception
too? Marker beacon?
>>> ELT: out the top in the tailcone?
>>>
>>> ADS-B/Transponder? Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?
>>>
>>> Thanks for the advice!
>>> Steven DeFord
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
---
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
Kellym wrote:
> Yes. I loved both outer and middle markers, ...
>
> But technology moves on and has us replacing
> electronics every 10-15 years instead of every 30 years.
> Nostalgia mode off.
> Kelly
>
>
I loved the MBs too, especially the MM, since it was a good reminder to not fixate
just when the workload was highest. But try to find one these days. I currently
have two instrument students who, so far, have never heard a MB. There arent
any left around here.
As to the 10 year life cycle: Ten years ago I was still contemplating avionics
choices. My home field had an ADF required ILS. I seriously considered not buying
a GPS (to save money) and instead buying a used ADF, which were dirt cheap
and plentiful. But I found that used ADF antennas were hard to find - people
were pulling their ADFs but leaving the antennas, I presume so they wouldnt have
to patch and paint the hole left behind. So I ended up with a 420W. Today,
10 years later, the LOM is gone; the ILS is now DME required. So now, if I had
gone the ADF route 10 years ago, Id be looking at a major panel upgrade. I think
your ten year life cycle comment is correct.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=481967#481967
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
- My cat whisker VOR antenna is mounted on the bottom of the tailcone under the
HS
- My #1 COM antenna is mounted right behind the seam of the cabin top and tailcone
on the tailcone top skin. I did extend a ground-plane onto the cabin top using
3 strips of copper foil embedded into the fiberglass. My ELT antenna is roughly
2 feet behind it.
- My #2 COM is a bent whip under my right wing under the first inboard bay at the
wing root.
- My transponder antenna is right behind the baggage bulkhead on the bottom of
the tailcone (my transponder (a GTX 23ES) is back there too)
- I have my GTN 650 and one of my G3X GPS antennas mounted between the doors on
the cabin top. The 650 antenna is ahead of the G3X antenna and offset right
of centerline; the G3X is offset left. The coax runs through my overhead console.
--------
Todd Stovall
aka Auburntsts on EAA, AOPA, and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=481969#481969
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
It must be region dependent. (ILS with MB). I just flew one at OSH a couple weeks
ago and flew over it a couple days ago, and there is one 15 miles from my
home airport as well. We arent decommissioning all
That fast around me.
Tim
> On Jul 30, 2018, at 2:55 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> Kellym wrote:
>> Yes. I loved both outer and middle markers, ...
>>
>> But technology moves on and has us replacing
>> electronics every 10-15 years instead of every 30 years.
>> Nostalgia mode off.
>> Kelly
>>
>>
>
>
> I loved the MBs too, especially the MM, since it was a good reminder to not fixate
just when the workload was highest. But try to find one these days. I currently
have two instrument students who, so far, have never heard a MB. There
arent any left around here.
> As to the 10 year life cycle: Ten years ago I was still contemplating avionics
choices. My home field had an ADF required ILS. I seriously considered not buying
a GPS (to save money) and instead buying a used ADF, which were dirt cheap
and plentiful. But I found that used ADF antennas were hard to find - people
were pulling their ADFs but leaving the antennas, I presume so they wouldnt
have to patch and paint the hole left behind. So I ended up with a 420W. Today,
10 years later, the LOM is gone; the ILS is now DME required. So now, if I had
gone the ADF route 10 years ago, Id be looking at a major panel upgrade. I
think your ten year life cycle comment is correct.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=481967#481967
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
Typical scenario is the first time a marker beacon goes into alarm and
needs maintenance or part replaced they simply notam it out of service
and start process to de-commission. The only nearby ILS for practice in
our area had a middle marker for the first 10-15 years it was in
service. Now, for the last 10 years or so it has been out of service,
with all the structures still there. Keeping a single frequency
transmitter with a single frequency tone generator running is not
exactly rocket science nor particularly expensive. I guess, because of
lack of the beacon, the Loc only approach requires a DME while neither
the ILS nor the VOR approach that have identical horizontal paths
require anything beyond a clock.
On 7/30/2018 2:49 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> It must be region dependent. (ILS with MB). I just flew one at OSH a couple
weeks ago and flew over it a couple days ago, and there is one 15 miles from my
home airport as well. We arent decommissioning all
> That fast around me.
> Tim
>
>> On Jul 30, 2018, at 2:55 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Kellym wrote:
>>> Yes. I loved both outer and middle markers, ...
>>>
>>> But technology moves on and has us replacing
>>> electronics every 10-15 years instead of every 30 years.
>>> Nostalgia mode off.
>>> Kelly
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> I loved the MBs too, especially the MM, since it was a good reminder to not
fixate just when the workload was highest. But try to find one these days. I currently
have two instrument students who, so far, have never heard a MB. There
arent any left around here.
>> As to the 10 year life cycle: Ten years ago I was still contemplating avionics
choices. My home field had an ADF required ILS. I seriously considered not
buying a GPS (to save money) and instead buying a used ADF, which were dirt cheap
and plentiful. But I found that used ADF antennas were hard to find - people
were pulling their ADFs but leaving the antennas, I presume so they wouldnt
have to patch and paint the hole left behind. So I ended up with a 420W. Today,
10 years later, the LOM is gone; the ILS is now DME required. So now, if I
had gone the ADF route 10 years ago, Id be looking at a major panel upgrade. I
think your ten year life cycle comment is correct.
>>
>> --------
>> Bob Turner
>> RV-10 QB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=481967#481967
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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