Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:38 AM - Re: Getting beat up by NorCal ATC (Bill Watson)
2. 08:32 AM - Re: Getting beat up by NorCal ATC (Berck E. Nash)
3. 09:48 AM - Re: Getting beat up by NorCal ATC (Bill Watson)
4. 02:37 PM - Re: Getting beat up by NorCal ATC (Dan Masys)
5. 02:52 PM - Re: Re: Getting beat up by NorCal ATC (Berck E. Nash)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Getting beat up by NorCal ATC |
FWIW, I never picked up the habit of calling myself an 'RV'. I
consistently ID myself as "Experimental 215Tango Golf" or just "5Tango
Golf". This may work for me since 90+% of my flights are on an IFR
plan. Often I'm referred to by ATC as "RV 5Tango Golf" which I presume
they pickup from my plan 'strip' but I stick to "Experimental..."
Not sure if that helps or hurts but it's never caused confusion and only
rarely results in me being asked for aircraft type.... very rarely.
This may not work as smoothly using VFR FF.
Thanks for insight Kelly.
On 8/8/2018 4:31 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> I suspect the 2nd RV calling got accepted because controller thought
> it was the 1st RV calling back.
> As for squawk codes, generally those that stay within an
> approach/departure control area get code starting with a 0.
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| Subject: | Re: Getting beat up by NorCal ATC |
>From the AIM, 4-2-4:
3. Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft
type, model or manufacturer=99s name, followed by the
digits/letters of the registration number. When the
aircraft manufacturer=99s name or model is stated, the
prefix =9CN=9D is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four
Alpha.
EXAMPLE=88=92
1. Bonanza Six Five Five Golf.
2. Breezy Six One Three Romeo Experimental (omit
=9CExperimental=9D after initial contact).
On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 8:35 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> FWIW, I never picked up the habit of calling myself an 'RV'. I
> consistently ID myself as "Experimental 215Tango Golf" or just "5Tango
> Golf". This may work for me since 90+% of my flights are on an IFR plan.
> Often I'm referred to by ATC as "RV 5Tango Golf" which I presume they
> pickup from my plan 'strip' but I stick to "Experimental..."
>
> Not sure if that helps or hurts but it's never caused confusion and only
> rarely results in me being asked for aircraft type.... very rarely. This
> may not work as smoothly using VFR FF.
>
> Thanks for insight Kelly.
>
> On 8/8/2018 4:31 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>>
>> I suspect the 2nd RV calling got accepted because controller thought it
>> was the 1st RV calling back.
>> As for squawk codes, generally those that stay within an
>> approach/departure control area get code starting with a 0.
>>
>
>
> ---
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>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Getting beat up by NorCal ATC |
Looks like I could do better.
On 8/9/2018 11:30 AM, Berck E. Nash wrote:
> From the AIM, 4-2-4:
>
> 3. Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft
> type, model or manufacturers name, followed by the
> digits/letters of the registration number. When the
> aircraft manufacturers name or model is stated, the
> prefix N is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four
> Alpha.
> EXAMPLE
> 1. Bonanza Six Five Five Golf.
> 2. Breezy Six One Three Romeo Experimental (omit
> Experimental after initial contact).
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 8:35 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com
> <mailto:Mauledriver@nc.rr.com>> wrote:
>
> <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com <mailto:Mauledriver@nc.rr.com>>
>
> FWIW, I never picked up the habit of calling myself an 'RV'. I
> consistently ID myself as "Experimental 215Tango Golf" or just
> "5Tango Golf". This may work for me since 90+% of my flights are
> on an IFR plan. Often I'm referred to by ATC as "RV 5Tango Golf"
> which I presume they pickup from my plan 'strip' but I stick to
> "Experimental..."
>
> Not sure if that helps or hurts but it's never caused confusion
> and only rarely results in me being asked for aircraft type....
> very rarely. This may not work as smoothly using VFR FF.
>
> Thanks for insight Kelly.
>
---
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Message 4
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| Subject: | RE: Getting beat up by NorCal ATC |
Thanks all for the educational input. I definitely have an IFR departure
strategy now for this (and any) uncontrolled airport, particularly in
NorCal's jurisdiction: get a clearance plus void time release via phone
while on the ground, even if it is blue skies everywhere. It eliminates the
issue of getting ignored during initial call-up, and saves any
misunderstanding caused by nonstandard radio phraseology.
A few additional details on my long story:
1. When the female controller issued my clearance and I read it back
correctly, the last thing she said was 'Maintain VFR.', which led me to
believe the IFR clearance was not yet active.
2. This was further reinforced when approximately ten minutes later I called
Oakland Center and their initial response was 'We don't have anything in the
system for you.' After a pause the Center controller remarked, "Oh, here it
is", followed by "cleared direct TTE."
3. I also was concerned that initially I had been given a VFR squawk, and
asked the Center controller about it. He confirmed that the initial code
given was an IFR code, which made the "maintain VFR" remark of the previous
controller even more curious.
But all of that notwithstanding, I know forevermore not to attempt to 'open
an IFR flight plan' even though that phraseology had worked without incident
literally for decades.
Tailwinds to all,
-Dan Masys
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Getting beat up by NorCal ATC |
Wow, that's even more confusing. Unless she issued you a clearance that
started with something like "When reaching [altitude or fix], cleared
to...", I can't imagine what she meant by "maintain VFR" An IFR clearance
means you can operate IFR. You were right to continue questioning in that
case, but you probably should have questioned her specifically about the
VFR restriction and indicated reiterated that you're requesting IFR. I
realize it was VMC so you weren't concerned about the limitation, but that
definitely doesn't make any sense.
On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 3:33 PM, Dan Masys <dmasys@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>
> Thanks all for the educational input. I definitely have an IFR departure
> strategy now for this (and any) uncontrolled airport, particularly in
> NorCal's jurisdiction: get a clearance plus void time release via phone
> while on the ground, even if it is blue skies everywhere. It eliminates
> the
> issue of getting ignored during initial call-up, and saves any
> misunderstanding caused by nonstandard radio phraseology.
>
> A few additional details on my long story:
>
> 1. When the female controller issued my clearance and I read it back
> correctly, the last thing she said was 'Maintain VFR.', which led me to
> believe the IFR clearance was not yet active.
>
> 2. This was further reinforced when approximately ten minutes later I
> called
> Oakland Center and their initial response was 'We don't have anything in
> the
> system for you.' After a pause the Center controller remarked, "Oh, here
> it
> is", followed by "cleared direct TTE."
>
> 3. I also was concerned that initially I had been given a VFR squawk, and
> asked the Center controller about it. He confirmed that the initial code
> given was an IFR code, which made the "maintain VFR" remark of the previous
> controller even more curious.
>
> But all of that notwithstanding, I know forevermore not to attempt to 'open
> an IFR flight plan' even though that phraseology had worked without
> incident
> literally for decades.
>
> Tailwinds to all,
> -Dan Masys
>
>
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