---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/09/18: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:38 AM - Re: Getting beat up by NorCal ATC (Bill Watson) 2. 08:32 AM - Re: Getting beat up by NorCal ATC (Berck E. Nash) 3. 09:48 AM - Re: Getting beat up by NorCal ATC (Bill Watson) 4. 02:37 PM - Re: Getting beat up by NorCal ATC (Dan Masys) 5. 02:52 PM - Re: Re: Getting beat up by NorCal ATC (Berck E. Nash) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Getting beat up by NorCal ATC From: Bill Watson FWIW, I never picked up the habit of calling myself an 'RV'. I consistently ID myself as "Experimental 215Tango Golf" or just "5Tango Golf". This may work for me since 90+% of my flights are on an IFR plan. Often I'm referred to by ATC as "RV 5Tango Golf" which I presume they pickup from my plan 'strip' but I stick to "Experimental..." Not sure if that helps or hurts but it's never caused confusion and only rarely results in me being asked for aircraft type.... very rarely. This may not work as smoothly using VFR FF. Thanks for insight Kelly. On 8/8/2018 4:31 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > I suspect the 2nd RV calling got accepted because controller thought > it was the 1st RV calling back. > As for squawk codes, generally those that stay within an > approach/departure control area get code starting with a 0. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:25 AM PST US From: "Berck E. Nash" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Getting beat up by NorCal ATC >From the AIM, 4-2-4: 3. Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or manufacturer=99s name, followed by the digits/letters of the registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer=99s name or model is stated, the prefix =9CN=9D is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four Alpha. EXAMPLE=88=92 1. Bonanza Six Five Five Golf. 2. Breezy Six One Three Romeo Experimental (omit =9CExperimental=9D after initial contact). On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 8:35 AM, Bill Watson wrote: > > FWIW, I never picked up the habit of calling myself an 'RV'. I > consistently ID myself as "Experimental 215Tango Golf" or just "5Tango > Golf". This may work for me since 90+% of my flights are on an IFR plan. > Often I'm referred to by ATC as "RV 5Tango Golf" which I presume they > pickup from my plan 'strip' but I stick to "Experimental..." > > Not sure if that helps or hurts but it's never caused confusion and only > rarely results in me being asked for aircraft type.... very rarely. This > may not work as smoothly using VFR FF. > > Thanks for insight Kelly. > > On 8/8/2018 4:31 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > >> >> I suspect the 2nd RV calling got accepted because controller thought it >> was the 1st RV calling back. >> As for squawk codes, generally those that stay within an >> approach/departure control area get code starting with a 0. >> > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:48:15 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Getting beat up by NorCal ATC From: Bill Watson Looks like I could do better. On 8/9/2018 11:30 AM, Berck E. Nash wrote: > From the AIM, 4-2-4: > > 3. Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft > type, model or manufacturers name, followed by the > digits/letters of the registration number. When the > aircraft manufacturers name or model is stated, the > prefix N is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four > Alpha. > EXAMPLE > 1. Bonanza Six Five Five Golf. > 2. Breezy Six One Three Romeo Experimental (omit > Experimental after initial contact). > > > On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 8:35 AM, Bill Watson > wrote: > > > > > FWIW, I never picked up the habit of calling myself an 'RV'. I > consistently ID myself as "Experimental 215Tango Golf" or just > "5Tango Golf". This may work for me since 90+% of my flights are > on an IFR plan. Often I'm referred to by ATC as "RV 5Tango Golf" > which I presume they pickup from my plan 'strip' but I stick to > "Experimental..." > > Not sure if that helps or hurts but it's never caused confusion > and only rarely results in me being asked for aircraft type.... > very rarely. This may not work as smoothly using VFR FF. > > Thanks for insight Kelly. > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:37:33 PM PST US From: "Dan Masys" Subject: RV10-List: RE: Getting beat up by NorCal ATC Thanks all for the educational input. I definitely have an IFR departure strategy now for this (and any) uncontrolled airport, particularly in NorCal's jurisdiction: get a clearance plus void time release via phone while on the ground, even if it is blue skies everywhere. It eliminates the issue of getting ignored during initial call-up, and saves any misunderstanding caused by nonstandard radio phraseology. A few additional details on my long story: 1. When the female controller issued my clearance and I read it back correctly, the last thing she said was 'Maintain VFR.', which led me to believe the IFR clearance was not yet active. 2. This was further reinforced when approximately ten minutes later I called Oakland Center and their initial response was 'We don't have anything in the system for you.' After a pause the Center controller remarked, "Oh, here it is", followed by "cleared direct TTE." 3. I also was concerned that initially I had been given a VFR squawk, and asked the Center controller about it. He confirmed that the initial code given was an IFR code, which made the "maintain VFR" remark of the previous controller even more curious. But all of that notwithstanding, I know forevermore not to attempt to 'open an IFR flight plan' even though that phraseology had worked without incident literally for decades. Tailwinds to all, -Dan Masys ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:35 PM PST US From: "Berck E. Nash" Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Getting beat up by NorCal ATC Wow, that's even more confusing. Unless she issued you a clearance that started with something like "When reaching [altitude or fix], cleared to...", I can't imagine what she meant by "maintain VFR" An IFR clearance means you can operate IFR. You were right to continue questioning in that case, but you probably should have questioned her specifically about the VFR restriction and indicated reiterated that you're requesting IFR. I realize it was VMC so you weren't concerned about the limitation, but that definitely doesn't make any sense. On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 3:33 PM, Dan Masys wrote: > > Thanks all for the educational input. I definitely have an IFR departure > strategy now for this (and any) uncontrolled airport, particularly in > NorCal's jurisdiction: get a clearance plus void time release via phone > while on the ground, even if it is blue skies everywhere. It eliminates > the > issue of getting ignored during initial call-up, and saves any > misunderstanding caused by nonstandard radio phraseology. > > A few additional details on my long story: > > 1. When the female controller issued my clearance and I read it back > correctly, the last thing she said was 'Maintain VFR.', which led me to > believe the IFR clearance was not yet active. > > 2. This was further reinforced when approximately ten minutes later I > called > Oakland Center and their initial response was 'We don't have anything in > the > system for you.' After a pause the Center controller remarked, "Oh, here > it > is", followed by "cleared direct TTE." > > 3. I also was concerned that initially I had been given a VFR squawk, and > asked the Center controller about it. He confirmed that the initial code > given was an IFR code, which made the "maintain VFR" remark of the previous > controller even more curious. > > But all of that notwithstanding, I know forevermore not to attempt to 'open > an IFR flight plan' even though that phraseology had worked without > incident > literally for decades. > > Tailwinds to all, > -Dan Masys > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.