Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:11 AM - 2.25" Backup Instruments (Tim Olson)
2. 09:51 AM - Re: 2.25" Backup Instruments (Bill Watson)
3. 10:26 AM - Re: 2.25" Backup Instruments (Tim Olson)
4. 11:12 AM - Re: 2.25" Backup Instruments (Bill Watson)
5. 03:04 PM - Re: 2.25" Backup Instruments (Michael Smith)
6. 10:06 PM - Re: 2.25" Backup Instruments (Chris)
7. 10:50 PM - Re: 2.25" Backup Instruments (Tim Olson)
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| Subject: | 2.25" Backup Instruments |
I just realized that while I did a write-up on this, and a youtube
video, I haven't actually told anyone on the lists about it yet.
The write-up here, has all the history behind this, but the short
story is this: I've always wanted a better backup instrument, but
the panel space and the fact that I had cut 2.25" holes and didn't
have room for square instruments was limiting. I was finally going
to just give up and by 2 of the RC Allen 2600-2 instruments this
year, but *really* was not feeling good about that decision.
But a little google searching led me to a perfect option that
I hadn't found before. And, although it wasn't being sold in the
U.S., I decided to take the risk and try it and bought 2 for both
my RV10 and RV14.
Here's the write-up link:
https://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20180815/index.html
And a quick photo:
https://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20180815/RV20180718-200605-1668.jpg
I'm not affiliate with them in any way, and have received nothing
from them for showing them off, but needless to say, at the
price point (under $1000), I've become a fan of theirs and want
to share the info about it. Hopefully they'll be distributed in
the U.S. soon enough, and it'll be an easier (although it was
truly easy already) purchase for us U.S. Builders.
Anyway, the video gives some info, as does the write-up, so I won't
bore you here, but, after testing this in both planes and while
doing aerobatics, I can say that if you're looking for something
better to fill a 2.25" hole with, this would make an awesome
retrofit.
Hopefully it helps some of you who are currently dealing with
poor backups.
Tim
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 2.25" Backup Instruments |
Thanks Tim! This may be a home run for me. I've been looking to
upgrade my '3 pack' backup panel with a 1 hole attitude indicator/do all
and this looks like the ticket at a good price point. I would
desparately like to reconfigure my pilot panel with a larger GRT unit
and a single backup unit. I'm not totally comfortable with a solution
that requires electrons to work.
There are some very fine instruments available in Europe that are often
aimed at the glider/powered glider/LSA type market. That's been the
case for many years. Only a few get US distribution and some never do.
Bill
On 8/31/2018 12:08 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> I just realized that while I did a write-up on this, and a youtube
> video, I haven't actually told anyone on the lists about it yet.
>
> The write-up here, has all the history behind this, but the short
> story is this: I've always wanted a better backup instrument, but
> the panel space and the fact that I had cut 2.25" holes and didn't
> have room for square instruments was limiting. I was finally going
> to just give up and by 2 of the RC Allen 2600-2 instruments this
> year, but *really* was not feeling good about that decision.
> But a little google searching led me to a perfect option that
> I hadn't found before. And, although it wasn't being sold in the
> U.S., I decided to take the risk and try it and bought 2 for both
> my RV10 and RV14.
>
> Here's the write-up link:
> https://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20180815/index.html
>
> And a quick photo:
> https://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20180815/RV20180718-200605-1668.jpg
>
>
> I'm not affiliate with them in any way, and have received nothing
> from them for showing them off, but needless to say, at the
> price point (under $1000), I've become a fan of theirs and want
> to share the info about it. Hopefully they'll be distributed in
> the U.S. soon enough, and it'll be an easier (although it was
> truly easy already) purchase for us U.S. Builders.
>
> Anyway, the video gives some info, as does the write-up, so I won't
> bore you here, but, after testing this in both planes and while
> doing aerobatics, I can say that if you're looking for something
> better to fill a 2.25" hole with, this would make an awesome
> retrofit.
>
> Hopefully it helps some of you who are currently dealing with
> poor backups.
>
> Tim
>
>
---
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| Subject: | Re: 2.25" Backup Instruments |
Bill,
That's exactly where this came from...it was by a company that was
really into the
glider market in Europe. I was talking to them though and they really would
love to be in the experimental market here too. I'm hoping maybe Stein
picks up their 2.25" unit at least, so that it's something that everyone can
easily get who has old gauges to upgrade. It's kind of a special niche
market
in that regards, as most U.S. people wouldn't probably want their other EFIS
products, and many who would get 3.5" gauges would go with a garmin G5 or
something. But, I am betting there are just tons of people out there
with 2.25"
holes to fill.
Regarding the electrons: I forgot to mention that really the only downsides
to this gauge that I've found are that: A) it's not as bright if you
view it
at way far off angles. 45 degrees is good, but if it's way on the other
side
of your panel, in certain conditions it may be tough. It's useable that way
for me on mine though. And B) it doesn't have a built-in battery backup
system. But, for that I think it would be real easy to either add your own
(especially something like a small IBBS (maybe a mini version)) or, maybe
not even worry about it.
You described your 2 battery system in a different email...once you get so
much redundancy, I'm not sure it's valid to worry about so many
simultaneous things going wrong. Is your alternator going to do?
Well, you've
got 2 batteries, which equals quite a bit of time to get on the ground
somewhere.
Is your battery dead? Well, you've got an alternator and another battery.
I mean, in my plane, I have 2 batteries but one alternator. If that
alternator
dies, I'm STILL going to be on the ground within an hour, no matter
what, and
hey, if I had a standby alternator, I would still do the same. You'd be
crazy to
continue while IFR on a standby alt, if there are good airports below.
And, at
160kts or more, you are never more than 30 minutes from an airport in
most areas of the U.S....especially the ones with the worst weather.
I'm still at least considering doing a D-I-Y independent power source, but,
it may be as simple as a small lithium battery pack that I keep charged up,
and if my primary systems die, I flip a switch and start drawing power
for this gauge from that. Would be pretty simple to do.
If you check out the specs on the unit, they say the draw is <2W at 12V.
It doesn't take much power to keep this thing running.
https://www.kanardia.eu/product/horis/
Tim
On 8/31/2018 11:48 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
>
> Thanks Tim! This may be a home run for me. I've been looking to
> upgrade my '3 pack' backup panel with a 1 hole attitude indicator/do
> all and this looks like the ticket at a good price point. I would
> desparately like to reconfigure my pilot panel with a larger GRT unit
> and a single backup unit. I'm not totally comfortable with a solution
> that requires electrons to work.
>
> There are some very fine instruments available in Europe that are
> often aimed at the glider/powered glider/LSA type market. That's been
> the case for many years. Only a few get US distribution and some
> never do.
>
> Bill
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 2.25" Backup Instruments |
Regarding power backup; with 2 alternators and 2 batteries I now
consider any additional backup batteries as an extra maintenance burden
with no foreseeable payoff. Batteries rarely fail(internal short), they
just slowly go bad. A simple maintenance check of the no-load voltage
on the Odyssey's can see that point coming on from quite a distance. If
I lose an alternator, I'm fine in VMC and will land immediately under
IMC conditions but with no unnecessary urgency. On a trip, a remote
failure of an alternator means that I just need a VFR day to take it
home and DIY the replacement. Very cost effective options if needed.
Having flown with the old vacuum pump setup, not being subject to a
slowly failing gyro instrument really keeps you ahead of things if there
is a failure. And a dual bus/batt/alt takes care of major electrical
component failures. 3 identical EFIS units provides triple redundancy
in the air and a welcome ability to send a unit back to the manufacturer
while swapping units around so I still have 2 units in front of the pilot.
Bill "wants to swap out the backup ADI, ASI, and ALT as well" Watson
*Going down to the hangar to see what an updated half a panel might look
like*
On 8/31/2018 1:23 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> That's exactly where this came from...it was by a company that was
> really into the
> glider market in Europe. I was talking to them though and they really
> would
> love to be in the experimental market here too. I'm hoping maybe Stein
> picks up their 2.25" unit at least, so that it's something that
> everyone can
> easily get who has old gauges to upgrade. It's kind of a special
> niche market
> in that regards, as most U.S. people wouldn't probably want their
> other EFIS
> products, and many who would get 3.5" gauges would go with a garmin G5 or
> something. But, I am betting there are just tons of people out there
> with 2.25"
> holes to fill.
>
> Regarding the electrons: I forgot to mention that really the only
> downsides
> to this gauge that I've found are that: A) it's not as bright if you
> view it
> at way far off angles. 45 degrees is good, but if it's way on the
> other side
> of your panel, in certain conditions it may be tough. It's useable
> that way
> for me on mine though. And B) it doesn't have a built-in battery backup
> system. But, for that I think it would be real easy to either add
> your own
> (especially something like a small IBBS (maybe a mini version)) or, maybe
> not even worry about it.
>
> You described your 2 battery system in a different email...once you
> get so
> much redundancy, I'm not sure it's valid to worry about so many
> simultaneous things going wrong. Is your alternator going to do?
> Well, you've
> got 2 batteries, which equals quite a bit of time to get on the ground
> somewhere.
> Is your battery dead? Well, you've got an alternator and another
> battery.
> I mean, in my plane, I have 2 batteries but one alternator. If that
> alternator
> dies, I'm STILL going to be on the ground within an hour, no matter
> what, and
> hey, if I had a standby alternator, I would still do the same. You'd
> be crazy to
> continue while IFR on a standby alt, if there are good airports
> below. And, at
> 160kts or more, you are never more than 30 minutes from an airport in
> most areas of the U.S....especially the ones with the worst weather.
> I'm still at least considering doing a D-I-Y independent power source,
> but,
> it may be as simple as a small lithium battery pack that I keep
> charged up,
> and if my primary systems die, I flip a switch and start drawing power
> for this gauge from that. Would be pretty simple to do.
>
> If you check out the specs on the unit, they say the draw is <2W at 12V.
> It doesn't take much power to keep this thing running.
> https://www.kanardia.eu/product/horis/
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 8/31/2018 11:48 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Tim! This may be a home run for me. I've been looking to
>> upgrade my '3 pack' backup panel with a 1 hole attitude indicator/do
>> all and this looks like the ticket at a good price point. I would
>> desparately like to reconfigure my pilot panel with a larger GRT unit
>> and a single backup unit. I'm not totally comfortable with a
>> solution that requires electrons to work.
>>
>> There are some very fine instruments available in Europe that are
>> often aimed at the glider/powered glider/LSA type market. That's been
>> the case for many years. Only a few get US distribution and some
>> never do.
>>
>> Bill
>
>
---
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| Subject: | Re: 2.25" Backup Instruments |
Tim,
New to the matronics RV10 List and appreciate the write up and video you di
d. I just started my RV10 build and need great planning ideas like this whe
n I get to the panel.
Best,
Michael Smith
https://rv10airplaneadventures.com/
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 31, 2018, at 11:08 AM, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
>
>
> I just realized that while I did a write-up on this, and a youtube
> video, I haven't actually told anyone on the lists about it yet.
>
> The write-up here, has all the history behind this, but the short
> story is this: I've always wanted a better backup instrument, but
> the panel space and the fact that I had cut 2.25" holes and didn't
> have room for square instruments was limiting. I was finally going
> to just give up and by 2 of the RC Allen 2600-2 instruments this
> year, but *really* was not feeling good about that decision.
> But a little google searching led me to a perfect option that
> I hadn't found before. And, although it wasn't being sold in the
> U.S., I decided to take the risk and try it and bought 2 for both
> my RV10 and RV14.
>
> Here's the write-up link:
> https://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20180815/index.html
>
> And a quick photo:
> https://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20180815/RV20180718-200605-1668.jpg
>
> I'm not affiliate with them in any way, and have received nothing
> from them for showing them off, but needless to say, at the
> price point (under $1000), I've become a fan of theirs and want
> to share the info about it. Hopefully they'll be distributed in
> the U.S. soon enough, and it'll be an easier (although it was
> truly easy already) purchase for us U.S. Builders.
>
> Anyway, the video gives some info, as does the write-up, so I won't
> bore you here, but, after testing this in both planes and while
> doing aerobatics, I can say that if you're looking for something
> better to fill a 2.25" hole with, this would make an awesome
> retrofit.
>
> Hopefully it helps some of you who are currently dealing with
> poor backups.
>
> Tim
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 2.25" Backup Instruments |
Thanks for this info. I too am in the same boat and walked by the rc allen unit
for many years, but not able to justify the price. In your research did you consider
the MGL Vega color series. They said at Oshkosh they would have an all
in one available in several months.
http://www.mglavionics.com/html/vega_color_singles.html
-Chris
N919AR
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 13:23:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: RV10-List: 2.25" Backup Instruments
Bill,
That's exactly where this came from...it was by a company that was
really into the
glider market in Europe. I was talking to them though and they really would
love to be in the experimental market here too. I'm hoping maybe Stein
picks up their 2.25" unit at least, so that it's something that everyone can
easily get who has old gauges to upgrade. It's kind of a special niche
market
in that regards, as most U.S. people wouldn't probably want their other EFIS
products, and many who would get 3.5" gauges would go with a garmin G5 or
something. But, I am betting there are just tons of people out there
with 2.25"
holes to fill.
Regarding the electrons: I forgot to mention that really the only downsides
to this gauge that I've found are that: A) it's not as bright if you
view it
at way far off angles. 45 degrees is good, but if it's way on the other
side
of your panel, in certain conditions it may be tough. It's useable that way
for me on mine though. And B) it doesn't have a built-in battery backup
system. But, for that I think it would be real easy to either add your own
(especially something like a small IBBS (maybe a mini version)) or, maybe
not even worry about it.
You described your 2 battery system in a different email...once you get so
much redundancy, I'm not sure it's valid to worry about so many
simultaneous things going wrong. Is your alternator going to do?
Well, you've
got 2 batteries, which equals quite a bit of time to get on the ground
somewhere.
Is your battery dead? Well, you've got an alternator and another battery.
I mean, in my plane, I have 2 batteries but one alternator. If that
alternator
dies, I'm STILL going to be on the ground within an hour, no matter
what, and
hey, if I had a standby alternator, I would still do the same. You'd be
crazy to
continue while IFR on a standby alt, if there are good airports below.
And, at
160kts or more, you are never more than 30 minutes from an airport in
most areas of the U.S....especially the ones with the worst weather.
I'm still at least considering doing a D-I-Y independent power source, but,
it may be as simple as a small lithium battery pack that I keep charged up,
and if my primary systems die, I flip a switch and start drawing power
for this gauge from that. Would be pretty simple to do.
If you check out the specs on the unit, they say the draw is <2W at 12V.
It doesn't take much power to keep this thing running.
https://www.kanardia.eu/product/horis/
Tim
On 8/31/2018 11:48 AM, Bill Watson wrote:
>
> Thanks Tim! This may be a home run for me. I've been looking to
> upgrade my '3 pack' backup panel with a 1 hole attitude indicator/do
> all and this looks like the ticket at a good price point. I would
> desparately like to reconfigure my pilot panel with a larger GRT unit
> and a single backup unit. I'm not totally comfortable with a solution
> that requires electrons to work.
>
> There are some very fine instruments available in Europe that are
> often aimed at the glider/powered glider/LSA type market. That's been
> the case for many years. Only a few get US distribution and some
> never do.
>
> Bill
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 2.25" Backup Instruments |
Hi Chris,
No, I hadn't found that one before, actually. I saw it for the first
time maybe a couple weeks
ago. I haven't really been a fan of most of the MGL stuff in the past,
(years ago, that is)
so I didn't really look too hard at them when searching. It does look
like a decent gauge,
and looks like they've come a ways with it. The actual display looks to
be a little smaller,
and it would be nice if they put a better photo on the page. Notice how the
Kanardia fills most of the circle except for top and bottom, whereas the
MGL is smaller
and does not use the sides of the circle either. That knob placement in
the middle
probably gives up some screen real estate I suppose.
Anyway, it does look nice.
BTW: For people looking for a more analog look for round gauges,
Kanardia does
have the Indu series:
https://www.kanardia.eu/product/indu-round-indicators/
When I was trying to find the EFIS, I talked to the US distributor for
the Indu,
and he says they are sold thru Aircraft Spruce. I'd consider replacing my
2.25" 0 to 20,000' altimeter to get something more accurate, but
with the EFIS already displaying altitude, it would be a waste and just
for looks.
I just wish all this stuff we have today would have been available
back in 2005 when I was buying items for my panel. Especially
at the prices they are today.
Tim
On 9/1/2018 12:03 AM, Chris wrote:
>
> Thanks for this info. I too am in the same boat and walked by the rc allen unit
for many years, but not able to justify the price. In your research did you
consider the MGL Vega color series. They said at Oshkosh they would have an all
in one available in several months.
>
> http://www.mglavionics.com/html/vega_color_singles.html
>
> -Chris
>
> N919AR
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