RV10-List Digest Archive

Sat 12/08/18


Total Messages Posted: 10



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:53 AM - Re: Cabin heat valve (Rob Kermanj)
     2. 05:15 AM - Wheel fairing build up (whodja)
     3. 05:41 AM - Re: Cabin heat valve (Phillip Perry)
     4. 05:53 AM - Re: Cabin heat valve (Rob Kermanj)
     5. 06:01 AM - Re: Cabin heat valve (Phillip Perry)
     6. 06:15 AM - Re: Cabin heat valve (Rob Kermanj)
     7. 06:25 AM - Re: Cabin heat valve (Carl Froehlich)
     8. 10:49 AM - Hot center channel (Doc)
     9. 12:05 PM - Re: Hot center channel (Rob Kermanj)
    10. 09:56 PM - Re: Hot center channel (Albert)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:53:56 AM PST US
    From: Rob Kermanj <flysrv10@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Cabin heat valve
    I this what you are talking about? This is a quality valve but will not change anything in the amount of heat directed at the firewall. > On Dec 8, 2018, at 12:16 AM, Albert <ibspud@roadrunner.com> wrote: > > > Some time back in a discussion of heat in the tunnel, I think there was some discussion of an alternate valve on the firewall that diverted hot air from the muffs into the cowl rather than blocking it. Supposedly wade the heat problem less. Anyone remember the unit? > Albert Gardner > RV-10 N991RV > Yuma, AZ > > > > > > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:15:07 AM PST US
    Subject: Wheel fairing build up
    From: "whodja" <whodja@gmail.com>
    The fairings from S Africa are exceptional! Perfect fit! Did you add the additional 2 layers as called for in the plans for the Vans fairing? The quality appears to be good enough but any feedback is appreciated. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486166#486166


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:41:15 AM PST US
    From: Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Cabin heat valve
    Plane Innovations has the stainless doors. Neither the aluminum or stainles s doors actually block the airflow. In both doors the airflow is allowed t o flow through the muffs, to the doors, and if the doors are closed at the f irewall, the air flows out the bottom of the cowling. What do the stainless doors do? 1) They=99re stainless so their melting point is higher than aluminum. So and engine fire isn=99t going to burn them off as quickly. 2) They have a small lip (approximately 1/8=9D) that acts like a baffl e to prevent leakage under the door. This is where the heat savings comes i n. Rather than letting the air leak under a closed door, it=99s redir ected away from the cracked opening and most of it goes out the bottom of th e tunnel. Do they work for heat related issues? Absolutely. I have knowledge of two 10=99s within 8 miles of my house that have ex perienced fuel related heat issues in the Texas summer. One could have turn ed out very badly but fortunately didn=99t. Installing the doors made a dramatic difference on both of those airplanes. It=99s still a good idea to put a radiant barrier on the front of the f irewall (that really helped me cool my feet off on long summer taxi=99 s) but the doors played a significant role in resolving the heat problems in side the tunnel. When installing them, it=99s a good idea to lay down a thick bead of f irewall sealant under the doors and then screw the doors down about 3/4 of t he way so they=99re not tight against the firewall. Then wait for th e sealant to cure fully before tightening the doors down the rest of the wa y. This keeps the cured sealant between the hot doors and the firewall and b reaks up the thermal bridge between the doors and firewall. Thus your fire wall doesn=99t act like a heatsink for your hot doors. Other note for the archives: I chose to use the Cool It mat from ThermoTec o n the (bottom 1/3) front side of the firewall. Adhesive backed, easy to cut to shape, and sticks well assuming you get the surface clean. I used it to line my lower cowling too. I=99m sure there are other good products o ut there, but it=99s just what I used because the local Auto Zones car ried it. Phil Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 8, 2018, at 5:51 AM, Rob Kermanj <flysrv10@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I this what you are talking about? This is a quality valve but will not c hange anything in the amount of heat directed at the firewall. > > > >> On Dec 8, 2018, at 12:16 AM, Albert <ibspud@roadrunner.com> wrote: >> >> >> Some time back in a discussion of heat in the tunnel, I think there was s ome discussion of an alternate valve on the firewall that diverted hot air f rom the muffs into the cowl rather than blocking it. Supposedly wade the hea t problem less. Anyone remember the unit? >> Albert Gardner >> RV-10 N991RV >> Yuma, AZ >> >> >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> http://wiki.matronics.com >> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:53:50 AM PST US
    From: Rob Kermanj <flysrv10@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Cabin heat valve
    Phil, Can you give a link to =9CSS doors=9D? Plane Innovation website shows a tribox similar to Van=99s Thanks. Rob > On Dec 8, 2018, at 8:38 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote: > > Plane Innovations has the stainless doors. Neither the aluminum or stainless doors actually block the airflow. In both doors the airflow is allowed to flow through the muffs, to the doors, and if the doors are closed at the firewall, the air flows out the bottom of the cowling. > > What do the stainless doors do? > 1) They=99re stainless so their melting point is higher than aluminum. So and engine fire isn=99t going to burn them off as quickly. > > 2) They have a small lip (approximately 1/8=9D) that acts like a baffle to prevent leakage under the door. This is where the heat savings comes in. Rather than letting the air leak under a closed door, it=99s redirected away from the cracked opening and most of it goes out the bottom of the tunnel. > > Do they work for heat related issues? Absolutely. > > I have knowledge of two 10=99s within 8 miles of my house that have experienced fuel related heat issues in the Texas summer. One could have turned out very badly but fortunately didn=99t. Installing the doors made a dramatic difference on both of those airplanes. > > It=99s still a good idea to put a radiant barrier on the front of the firewall (that really helped me cool my feet off on long summer taxi=99s) but the doors played a significant role in resolving the heat problems inside the tunnel. > > When installing them, it=99s a good idea to lay down a thick bead of firewall sealant under the doors and then screw the doors down about 3/4 of the way so they=99re not tight against the firewall. Then wait for the sealant to cure fully before tightening the doors down the rest of the way. This keeps the cured sealant between the hot doors and the firewall and breaks up the thermal bridge between the doors and firewall. Thus your firewall doesn=99t act like a heatsink for your hot doors. > > Other note for the archives: I chose to use the Cool It mat from ThermoTec on the (bottom 1/3) front side of the firewall. Adhesive backed, easy to cut to shape, and sticks well assuming you get the surface clean. I used it to line my lower cowling too. I=99m sure there are other good products out there, but it=99s just what I used because the local Auto Zones carried it. > > Phil > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 8, 2018, at 5:51 AM, Rob Kermanj <flysrv10@gmail.com <mailto:flysrv10@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> >> I this what you are talking about? This is a quality valve but will not change anything in the amount of heat directed at the firewall. >> >> <Screen Shot 2018-12-07 at 10.06.12 AM.png> >> >>> On Dec 8, 2018, at 12:16 AM, Albert <ibspud@roadrunner.com <mailto:ibspud@roadrunner.com>> wrote: >>> <mailto:ibspud@roadrunner.com>> >>> >>> Some time back in a discussion of heat in the tunnel, I think there was some discussion of an alternate valve on the firewall that diverted hot air from the muffs into the cowl rather than blocking it. Supposedly wade the heat problem less. Anyone remember the unit? >>> Albert Gardner >>> RV-10 N991RV >>> Yuma, AZ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List> >>> http://wiki.matronics.com <http://wiki.matronics.com/> >>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> >>> >>> >>> >>


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:01:25 AM PST US
    From: Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Cabin heat valve
    That=99s it. It looks similar but is made of stainless. http://www.planeinnovations.com/store/p1/Heater_Bypass_Valve.html Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 8, 2018, at 7:51 AM, Rob Kermanj <flysrv10@gmail.com> wrote: > > Phil, > > Can you give a link to =9CSS doors=9D? Plane Innovation websi te shows a tribox similar to Van=99s > > Thanks. > > Rob > > > >> On Dec 8, 2018, at 8:38 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Plane Innovations has the stainless doors. Neither the aluminum or stain less doors actually block the airflow. In both doors the airflow is allowe d to flow through the muffs, to the doors, and if the doors are closed at th e firewall, the air flows out the bottom of the cowling. >> >> What do the stainless doors do? >> 1) They=99re stainless so their melting point is higher than alumin um. So and engine fire isn=99t going to burn them off as quickly. >> >> 2) They have a small lip (approximately 1/8=9D) that acts like a ba ffle to prevent leakage under the door. This is where the heat savings come s in. Rather than letting the air leak under a closed door, it=99s re directed away from the cracked opening and most of it goes out the bottom of the tunnel. >> >> Do they work for heat related issues? Absolutely. >> >> I have knowledge of two 10=99s within 8 miles of my house that have experienced fuel related heat issues in the Texas summer. One could have t urned out very badly but fortunately didn=99t. Installing the doors m ade a dramatic difference on both of those airplanes. >> >> It=99s still a good idea to put a radiant barrier on the front of t he firewall (that really helped me cool my feet off on long summer taxi =99s) but the doors played a significant role in resolving the heat problems inside the tunnel. >> >> When installing them, it=99s a good idea to lay down a thick bead o f firewall sealant under the doors and then screw the doors down about 3/4 o f the way so they=99re not tight against the firewall. Then wait for the sealant to cure fully before tightening the doors down the rest of the way. This keeps the cured sealant between the hot doors and the firewall a nd breaks up the thermal bridge between the doors and firewall. Thus your f irewall doesn=99t act like a heatsink for your hot doors. >> >> Other note for the archives: I chose to use the Cool It mat from ThermoTe c on the (bottom 1/3) front side of the firewall. Adhesive backed, easy to c ut to shape, and sticks well assuming you get the surface clean. I used it t o line my lower cowling too. I=99m sure there are other good products out there, but it=99s just what I used because the local Auto Zones c arried it. >> >> Phil >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Dec 8, 2018, at 5:51 AM, Rob Kermanj <flysrv10@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I this what you are talking about? This is a quality valve but will not change anything in the amount of heat directed at the firewall. >>> >>> <Screen Shot 2018-12-07 at 10.06.12 AM.png> >>> >>>> On Dec 8, 2018, at 12:16 AM, Albert <ibspud@roadrunner.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Some time back in a discussion of heat in the tunnel, I think there was some discussion of an alternate valve on the firewall that diverted hot air from the muffs into the cowl rather than blocking it. Supposedly wade the h eat problem less. Anyone remember the unit? >>>> Albert Gardner >>>> RV-10 N991RV >>>> Yuma, AZ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>>> http://wiki.matronics.com >>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:15:59 AM PST US
    From: Rob Kermanj <flysrv10@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Cabin heat valve
    So, I have a SS Tribox with Silicone gasket that provides the thermal break you are referring to. However, it does not seem to reduce the cabin heat by a noticeable amount. The only time I have had success, is when I block off the scat ducts at the baffles preventing any air from flowing through the heat muffs. Vetterman has told me that it OK to not have any flow through the muffs. Still looking for improvement and considering firewall insulation. Do you think there are additional steps the RV10s you are referring to have done? Thanks. Do not archive Rob > On Dec 8, 2018, at 8:59 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote: > > That=99s it. It looks similar but is made of stainless. > > http://www.planeinnovations.com/store/p1/Heater_Bypass_Valve.html <http://www.planeinnovations.com/store/p1/Heater_Bypass_Valve.html> > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 8, 2018, at 7:51 AM, Rob Kermanj <flysrv10@gmail.com <mailto:flysrv10@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> Phil, >> >> Can you give a link to =9CSS doors=9D? Plane Innovation website shows a tribox similar to Van=99s >> >> Thanks. >> >> Rob >> >> >> >>> On Dec 8, 2018, at 8:38 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com <mailto:philperry9@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Plane Innovations has the stainless doors. Neither the aluminum or stainless doors actually block the airflow. In both doors the airflow is allowed to flow through the muffs, to the doors, and if the doors are closed at the firewall, the air flows out the bottom of the cowling. >>> >>> What do the stainless doors do? >>> 1) They=99re stainless so their melting point is higher than aluminum. So and engine fire isn=99t going to burn them off as quickly. >>> >>> 2) They have a small lip (approximately 1/8=9D) that acts like a baffle to prevent leakage under the door. This is where the heat savings comes in. Rather than letting the air leak under a closed door, it=99s redirected away from the cracked opening and most of it goes out the bottom of the tunnel. >>> >>> Do they work for heat related issues? Absolutely. >>> >>> I have knowledge of two 10=99s within 8 miles of my house that have experienced fuel related heat issues in the Texas summer. One could have turned out very badly but fortunately didn=99t. Installing the doors made a dramatic difference on both of those airplanes. >>> >>> It=99s still a good idea to put a radiant barrier on the front of the firewall (that really helped me cool my feet off on long summer taxi=99s) but the doors played a significant role in resolving the heat problems inside the tunnel. >>> >>> When installing them, it=99s a good idea to lay down a thick bead of firewall sealant under the doors and then screw the doors down about 3/4 of the way so they=99re not tight against the firewall. Then wait for the sealant to cure fully before tightening the doors down the rest of the way. This keeps the cured sealant between the hot doors and the firewall and breaks up the thermal bridge between the doors and firewall. Thus your firewall doesn=99t act like a heatsink for your hot doors. >>> >>> Other note for the archives: I chose to use the Cool It mat from ThermoTec on the (bottom 1/3) front side of the firewall. Adhesive backed, easy to cut to shape, and sticks well assuming you get the surface clean. I used it to line my lower cowling too. I=99m sure there are other good products out there, but it=99s just what I used because the local Auto Zones carried it. >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 8, 2018, at 5:51 AM, Rob Kermanj <flysrv10@gmail.com <mailto:flysrv10@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> I this what you are talking about? This is a quality valve but will not change anything in the amount of heat directed at the firewall. >>>> >>>> <Screen Shot 2018-12-07 at 10.06.12 AM.png> >>>> >>>>> On Dec 8, 2018, at 12:16 AM, Albert <ibspud@roadrunner.com <mailto:ibspud@roadrunner.com>> wrote: >>>>> <mailto:ibspud@roadrunner.com>> >>>>> >>>>> Some time back in a discussion of heat in the tunnel, I think there was some discussion of an alternate valve on the firewall that diverted hot air from the muffs into the cowl rather than blocking it. Supposedly wade the heat problem less. Anyone remember the unit? >>>>> Albert Gardner >>>>> RV-10 N991RV >>>>> Yuma, AZ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List> >>>>> http://wiki.matronics.com <http://wiki.matronics.com/> >>>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:25:07 AM PST US
    From: Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Cabin heat valve
    What I did. I installed a piece Koolmat between the cabin heat boxes and the firewall (h oles cut out for the boxes): https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appag es/koolmat.php. I extended the mat over the top of the boxes, then down and o ver the front of the boxes. My thinking: - No matter what box you use, if you hard mount it to the firewall you will p rovide a very good heat transfer path to the tunnel (flapper open or shut). The mat between the box and the firewall mitigates this problem. - During the summer you are still pumping huge amounts of heated air toward t he cabin boxes. The hot air bounces off the closed flapper and right back a t the engine (in the area of the mechanical fuel pump). The Koolmat draped o ver the front of the boxes redirects this heated air down to the cowl exit. One other mod was to put a 3/4=9D orifice in each heat muff SCAT hose b affle flange. On the coldest day I was only using a fraction of the heat th at the system provides, so why have all that air taken away from engine cool ing if not needed? I still only crack open the aft heat on cold days. Never had a tunnel heat problem. Carl > On Dec 8, 2018, at 8:51 AM, Rob Kermanj <flysrv10@gmail.com> wrote: > > Phil, > > Can you give a link to =9CSS doors=9D? Plane Innovation websi te shows a tribox similar to Van=99s > > Thanks. > > Rob > > > >> On Dec 8, 2018, at 8:38 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Plane Innovations has the stainless doors. Neither the aluminum or stain less doors actually block the airflow. In both doors the airflow is allowe d to flow through the muffs, to the doors, and if the doors are closed at th e firewall, the air flows out the bottom of the cowling. >> >> What do the stainless doors do? >> 1) They=99re stainless so their melting point is higher than alumin um. So and engine fire isn=99t going to burn them off as quickly. >> >> 2) They have a small lip (approximately 1/8=9D) that acts like a ba ffle to prevent leakage under the door. This is where the heat savings come s in. Rather than letting the air leak under a closed door, it=99s re directed away from the cracked opening and most of it goes out the bottom of the tunnel. >> >> Do they work for heat related issues? Absolutely. >> >> I have knowledge of two 10=99s within 8 miles of my house that have experienced fuel related heat issues in the Texas summer. One could have t urned out very badly but fortunately didn=99t. Installing the doors m ade a dramatic difference on both of those airplanes. >> >> It=99s still a good idea to put a radiant barrier on the front of t he firewall (that really helped me cool my feet off on long summer taxi =99s) but the doors played a significant role in resolving the heat problems inside the tunnel. >> >> When installing them, it=99s a good idea to lay down a thick bead o f firewall sealant under the doors and then screw the doors down about 3/4 o f the way so they=99re not tight against the firewall. Then wait for the sealant to cure fully before tightening the doors down the rest of the way. This keeps the cured sealant between the hot doors and the firewall a nd breaks up the thermal bridge between the doors and firewall. Thus your f irewall doesn=99t act like a heatsink for your hot doors. >> >> Other note for the archives: I chose to use the Cool It mat from ThermoTe c on the (bottom 1/3) front side of the firewall. Adhesive backed, easy to c ut to shape, and sticks well assuming you get the surface clean. I used it t o line my lower cowling too. I=99m sure there are other good products out there, but it=99s just what I used because the local Auto Zones c arried it. >> >> Phil >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Dec 8, 2018, at 5:51 AM, Rob Kermanj <flysrv10@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I this what you are talking about? This is a quality valve but will not change anything in the amount of heat directed at the firewall. >>> >>> <Screen Shot 2018-12-07 at 10.06.12 AM.png> >>> >>>> On Dec 8, 2018, at 12:16 AM, Albert <ibspud@roadrunner.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Some time back in a discussion of heat in the tunnel, I think there was some discussion of an alternate valve on the firewall that diverted hot air from the muffs into the cowl rather than blocking it. Supposedly wade the h eat problem less. Anyone remember the unit? >>>> Albert Gardner >>>> RV-10 N991RV >>>> Yuma, AZ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>>> http://wiki.matronics.com >>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:49:12 AM PST US
    From: Doc <docclv@windstream.net>
    Subject: Hot center channel
    Our center channel would get so hot you didn't want to leave your hand on it. I read a report of vapor locking in the fuel lines in the center channel when we were building so, we put a piece of fire wall insulation over the fuel lines and sealed the heat boxes with RTV silicone also to try to keep any air flow out. Center channel was still "hot". Put fire wall insulation from Wicks on fire wall. Center channel is only "warm" now even in 90 plus degree weather. I am convinced the fire wall insulation is the major thing to do to keep the center channel cool. However, I would also recommend insulating the center channel, etc. You also have to put insulation "mats" on each side of the engine cowling or the eghaust heat will warp the cowling.


    Message 9


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    Time: 12:05:44 PM PST US
    From: Rob Kermanj <flysrv10@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Hot center channel
    Do you have the pattern for firewall pieces that you can share? Thanks Do not archive > On Dec 8, 2018, at 1:47 PM, Doc <docclv@windstream.net> wrote: > > > Our center channel would get so hot you didn't want to leave your hand on it. I read a report of vapor locking in the fuel lines in the center channel when we were building so, we put a piece of fire wall insulation over the fuel lines and sealed the heat boxes with RTV silicone also to try to keep any air flow out. Center channel was still "hot". Put fire wall insulation from Wicks on fire wall. Center channel is only "warm" now even in 90 plus degree weather. I am convinced the fire wall insulation is the major thing to do to keep the center channel cool. However, I would also recommend insulating the center channel, etc. You also have to put insulation "mats" on each side of the engine cowling or the eghaust heat will warp the cowling. > > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 09:56:16 PM PST US
    From: "Albert" <ibspud@roadrunner.com>
    Subject: Hot center channel
    After reading the comments I'm wondering about making a removable restrictor/air dam in front on the scat tube. Normally need very little heat in Arizona although last winter in Missouri max heat was needed on very cold days. I guess one could make a shutter like dam that could be operated from the cockpit as opposed to having to remove the top cowl. I installed a sliding restrictor to block heat on my side in the cabin since my wife usually wants a lot more heat than I do. Albert Gardner RV-10 N991RV Yuma, AZ




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