Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:11 AM - door pins (dlm)
2. 06:41 AM - Elevator pulsation (Kelly McMullen)
3. 07:37 AM - Re: Elevator pulsation (Lenny Iszak)
4. 07:51 AM - Re: Elevator pulsation (Kelly McMullen)
5. 08:01 AM - Re: door pins (Robert Jones)
6. 08:17 AM - Re: Elevator pulsation (Lenny Iszak)
7. 09:08 AM - Re: Elevator pulsation (bill.peyton)
8. 09:45 AM - Re: Elevator pulsation (Bill Watson)
9. 11:28 AM - Tails from the riverbank and fitting doors tips (kearney)
10. 12:16 PM - Re: Tails from the riverbank and fitting doors tips (Ben Meyer)
11. 12:44 PM - Re: Tails from the riverbank and fitting doors tips (Gary Specketer)
12. 12:59 PM - Re: Tails from the riverbank and fitting doors tips (kearney)
Message 1
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Aircraft TT is about 1400. Upon inspection I notice that the door pins are
wearing a little from the opening and closing of the doors. pins wear as
they exit the doors and engage the fuselage bulkhead. Current circumference
of the pins are about .435-.437. what level of wear is acceptable? Has
anyone inserted short aluminum rods near the ends to provide extra safety
for a pin fracture?
Message 2
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| Subject: | Elevator pulsation |
Has anyone else experienced vibration/pulsation in the elevator? Most
noticeable on runup, and in cruise on autopilot. Vibration goes away
when power is reduced for descent. The only play I have found so far in
the control system is the elevator trim tab cables allow about 1/16" up
and down movement of the tabs at the trailing edge. I can't think such
vibration is good for the health of the mechanicals, and can only think
it is induced by prop power pulses hitting the elevator.
Kelly
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator pulsation |
Mine does it too. I machined a new trim bellcrank with pressed in ball bearings
to take out all the slop I can from the elevator trim. The cable still allows
some slop though. Pulsing is still there. I took a slo-mo video of the stick
in flight to determine the pulse rate and it was about 2Hz. Prop blade pulses
are RPM/2.
I was thinking maybe its an elevator balance problem. Those were the first things
I painted, and it took a few tries :) so they may have ended up too heavy.
Lenny
> On Apr 26, 2019, at 9:41 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone else experienced vibration/pulsation in the elevator? Most noticeable
on runup, and in cruise on autopilot. Vibration goes away when power is reduced
for descent. The only play I have found so far in the control system is
the elevator trim tab cables allow about 1/16" up and down movement of the tabs
at the trailing edge. I can't think such vibration is good for the health of
the mechanicals, and can only think it is induced by prop power pulses hitting
the elevator.
> Kelly
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator pulsation |
Glad (I guess) to hear it isn't just my aircraft. I don't know the pulse
rate for mine, but I have 3 bladed MT prop, so I assume it would be in
the 700-800 rate. I have no paint, so balance is per construction plans.
Haven't had elevator off yet to see how close it is to the specs you get
with finish kit. My elevator counterbalance fairings don't match as well
as I think they should, but haven't tried to get leading edge fairing to
match up better with elevator horns.
On 4/26/2019 7:26 AM, Lenny Iszak wrote:
>
> Mine does it too. I machined a new trim bellcrank with pressed in ball bearings
to take out all the slop I can from the elevator trim. The cable still allows
some slop though. Pulsing is still there. I took a slo-mo video of the stick
in flight to determine the pulse rate and it was about 2Hz. Prop blade pulses
are RPM/2.
> I was thinking maybe its an elevator balance problem. Those were the first things
I painted, and it took a few tries :) so they may have ended up too heavy.
>
> Lenny
>
>
>> On Apr 26, 2019, at 9:41 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Has anyone else experienced vibration/pulsation in the elevator? Most noticeable
on runup, and in cruise on autopilot. Vibration goes away when power is reduced
for descent. The only play I have found so far in the control system is
the elevator trim tab cables allow about 1/16" up and down movement of the tabs
at the trailing edge. I can't think such vibration is good for the health
of the mechanicals, and can only think it is induced by prop power pulses hitting
the elevator.
>> Kelly
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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You might consider going to the stainless door pins. They can be easily retrofitted
by cutting off the ends of the aluminum rods and threading them on the inside.
A threaded rod screws in (I used Red Loctite on it) them screw the new pins
on the protruding threaded rod.
Robert Jones
> On Apr 26, 2019, at 06:04, dlm <dlm34077@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Aircraft TT is about 1400. Upon inspection I notice that the door pins are wearing
a little from the opening and closing of the doors. pins wear as they exit
the doors and engage the fuselage bulkhead. Current circumference of the pins
are about .435-.437. what level of wear is acceptable? Has anyone inserted
short aluminum rods near the ends to provide extra safety for a pin fracture?
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator pulsation |
Good point. My counterbalance fairings dont match very well either.
Lenny
> On Apr 26, 2019, at 10:50 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
>
> Glad (I guess) to hear it isn't just my aircraft. I don't know the pulse rate
for mine, but I have 3 bladed MT prop, so I assume it would be in the 700-800
rate. I have no paint, so balance is per construction plans. Haven't had elevator
off yet to see how close it is to the specs you get with finish kit. My elevator
counterbalance fairings don't match as well as I think they should, but
haven't tried to get leading edge fairing to match up better with elevator horns.
>
> On 4/26/2019 7:26 AM, Lenny Iszak wrote:
>> Mine does it too. I machined a new trim bellcrank with pressed in ball bearings
to take out all the slop I can from the elevator trim. The cable still allows
some slop though. Pulsing is still there. I took a slo-mo video of the stick
in flight to determine the pulse rate and it was about 2Hz. Prop blade pulses
are RPM/2.
>> I was thinking maybe its an elevator balance problem. Those were the first things
I painted, and it took a few tries :) so they may have ended up too heavy.
>> Lenny
>>> On Apr 26, 2019, at 9:41 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Has anyone else experienced vibration/pulsation in the elevator? Most noticeable
on runup, and in cruise on autopilot. Vibration goes away when power is
reduced for descent. The only play I have found so far in the control system
is the elevator trim tab cables allow about 1/16" up and down movement of the
tabs at the trailing edge. I can't think such vibration is good for the health
of the mechanicals, and can only think it is induced by prop power pulses hitting
the elevator.
>>> Kelly
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator pulsation |
I have never noticed the vibration, but I did not like all of the slop in the current
trim actuation design. I redesigned the trim bell crank pivot point to
reduce the slop, and I use #10 castellated nuts to hold the cable ends in lieu
of the pins. I have little to no play now.
--------
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488968#488968
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator pulsation |
Kelly, FWIW I haven't never experienced any elevator pulsation (my
Miata's stick shift pulsates but that's a different matter). I think my
elevator counterweight to stabilizer fitting is relatively tight if a
bit crudely finished.
Bill in Durham NC
On 4/26/2019 9:41 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Has anyone else experienced vibration/pulsation in the elevator? Most
> noticeable on runup, and in cruise on autopilot. Vibration goes away
> when power is reduced for descent. The only play I have found so far
> in the control system is the elevator trim tab cables allow about
> 1/16" up and down movement of the tabs at the trailing edge. I can't
> think such vibration is good for the health of the mechanicals, and
> can only think it is induced by prop power pulses hitting the elevator.
> Kelly
>
>
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Tails from the riverbank and fitting doors tips |
Hi
First, a nickle for the first person who knows the reference in the title.
Next fitting door tips.
Eons ago I shamelessly stole a bunch of door fitting techniques and put them into
a document that has had some circulation. Having just finished my second -10
I have learned a couple of things I that should be added to the document.
# 1: Door geometry is complex so only adjust one thing at a time when modifying
doors. And make very small adjustments.
# 2 : Look for simple solutions BEFORE doing significant mods. Do the simple things
even if you are sure they won't work. You may be surprised.
Here is what happened to me that gave rise to the above.
On my port door, I found the door would close beautifully and then after a few
cycles start binding on the cabin top. It took a bit of time to spot where it
was binding. Finding out why was a bit of an issue. It turns out the door strut
was pushing the door aft slightly aft in the hinges. I was able to correct this
by inserting a washer between the hinge halves and thereby pushing the door
forward by 30 thou. My initial instinct was to modify door jam which would have
been a big job. A 3 cent washer fixed it.
My next problem was the starboard door. It was a bear to close. I had to really
pull in on the handle and the center interlock cam to get it to close. Even then
there was a lot of resistance. My fear was I was going to have to move the
door pin blocks. Again, I decided to try putting a little grease on the blocks
to see if it would help any. I really didn't think it would but grease was cheap
and easy.
Not only did it help but the door now engages las smooth as silk. Very easy and
very smooth. My guess is the steel pin / aluminum block had a lot of friction
based on the way it is making contact. Again, a little grease solved a very big
problem.
So my recommendation to those frustrated by door fitting issues, be sure to really
understand the root cause of your problem - it is usually not obvious and
try all the simple things first. You may get lucky.
Cheers
Les
C-GCWZ sold
C-GROK ready for first flight (just need good wx)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488972#488972
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Tails from the riverbank and fitting doors tips |
Any chance you could share your door fitting document?
Thanks
Ben
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 26, 2019, at 11:27 AM, kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Hi
>
> First, a nickle for the first person who knows the reference in the title.
>
> Next fitting door tips.
>
> Eons ago I shamelessly stole a bunch of door fitting techniques and put them
into a document that has had some circulation. Having just finished my second
-10 I have learned a couple of things I that should be added to the document.
>
> # 1: Door geometry is complex so only adjust one thing at a time when modifying
doors. And make very small adjustments.
>
> # 2 : Look for simple solutions BEFORE doing significant mods. Do the simple
things even if you are sure they won't work. You may be surprised.
>
> Here is what happened to me that gave rise to the above.
>
> On my port door, I found the door would close beautifully and then after a few
cycles start binding on the cabin top. It took a bit of time to spot where it
was binding. Finding out why was a bit of an issue. It turns out the door strut
was pushing the door aft slightly aft in the hinges. I was able to correct
this by inserting a washer between the hinge halves and thereby pushing the door
forward by 30 thou. My initial instinct was to modify door jam which would
have been a big job. A 3 cent washer fixed it.
>
> My next problem was the starboard door. It was a bear to close. I had to really
pull in on the handle and the center interlock cam to get it to close. Even
then there was a lot of resistance. My fear was I was going to have to move the
door pin blocks. Again, I decided to try putting a little grease on the blocks
to see if it would help any. I really didn't think it would but grease was
cheap and easy.
>
> Not only did it help but the door now engages las smooth as silk. Very easy and
very smooth. My guess is the steel pin / aluminum block had a lot of friction
based on the way it is making contact. Again, a little grease solved a very
big problem.
>
> So my recommendation to those frustrated by door fitting issues, be sure to really
understand the root cause of your problem - it is usually not obvious and
try all the simple things first. You may get lucky.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> C-GCWZ sold
> C-GROK ready for first flight (just need good wx)
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488972#488972
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Tails from the riverbank and fitting doors tips |
I too finished another door set (#4). I second what Les said.
Gary Specketer
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of kearney <kearney@sh
aw.ca>
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2019 2:32 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Tails from the riverbank and fitting doors tips
Hi
First, a nickle for the first person who knows the reference in the title.
Next fitting door tips.
Eons ago I shamelessly stole a bunch of door fitting techniques and put the
m into a document that has had some circulation. Having just finished my se
cond -10 I have learned a couple of things I that should be added to the do
cument.
# 1: Door geometry is complex so only adjust one thing at a time when modif
ying doors. And make very small adjustments.
# 2 : Look for simple solutions BEFORE doing significant mods. Do the simpl
e things even if you are sure they won't work. You may be surprised.
Here is what happened to me that gave rise to the above.
On my port door, I found the door would close beautifully and then after a
few cycles start binding on the cabin top. It took a bit of time to spot wh
ere it was binding. Finding out why was a bit of an issue. It turns out the
door strut was pushing the door aft slightly aft in the hinges. I was able
to correct this by inserting a washer between the hinge halves and thereby
pushing the door forward by 30 thou. My initial instinct was to modify doo
r jam which would have been a big job. A 3 cent washer fixed it.
My next problem was the starboard door. It was a bear to close. I had to re
ally pull in on the handle and the center interlock cam to get it to close.
Even then there was a lot of resistance. My fear was I was going to have t
o move the door pin blocks. Again, I decided to try putting a little grease
on the blocks to see if it would help any. I really didn't think it would
but grease was cheap and easy.
Not only did it help but the door now engages las smooth as silk. Very easy
and very smooth. My guess is the steel pin / aluminum block had a lot of f
riction based on the way it is making contact. Again, a little grease solve
d a very big problem.
So my recommendation to those frustrated by door fitting issues, be sure to
really understand the root cause of your problem - it is usually not obvio
us and try all the simple things first. You may get lucky.
Cheers
Les
C-GCWZ sold
C-GROK ready for first flight (just need good wx)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488972#488972
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Tails from the riverbank and fitting doors tips |
Ben
Here is the document. In a way I didn't write it. I send a series of emails to
a friend in Oz who then compiled it into a word doc.
Cheers
Les
C-GCWZ sold
C-GROK waiting on wx for first flight
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488976#488976
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/mcmaster_carr_door_seals_140.docx
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