---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/26/19: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:11 AM - door pins (dlm) 2. 06:41 AM - Elevator pulsation (Kelly McMullen) 3. 07:37 AM - Re: Elevator pulsation (Lenny Iszak) 4. 07:51 AM - Re: Elevator pulsation (Kelly McMullen) 5. 08:01 AM - Re: door pins (Robert Jones) 6. 08:17 AM - Re: Elevator pulsation (Lenny Iszak) 7. 09:08 AM - Re: Elevator pulsation (bill.peyton) 8. 09:45 AM - Re: Elevator pulsation (Bill Watson) 9. 11:28 AM - Tails from the riverbank and fitting doors tips (kearney) 10. 12:16 PM - Re: Tails from the riverbank and fitting doors tips (Ben Meyer) 11. 12:44 PM - Re: Tails from the riverbank and fitting doors tips (Gary Specketer) 12. 12:59 PM - Re: Tails from the riverbank and fitting doors tips (kearney) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:30 AM PST US From: dlm Subject: RV10-List: door pins Aircraft TT is about 1400. Upon inspection I notice that the door pins are wearing a little from the opening and closing of the doors. pins wear as they exit the doors and engage the fuselage bulkhead. Current circumference of the pins are about .435-.437. what level of wear is acceptable? Has anyone inserted short aluminum rods near the ends to provide extra safety for a pin fracture? ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:53 AM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: RV10-List: Elevator pulsation Has anyone else experienced vibration/pulsation in the elevator? Most noticeable on runup, and in cruise on autopilot. Vibration goes away when power is reduced for descent. The only play I have found so far in the control system is the elevator trim tab cables allow about 1/16" up and down movement of the tabs at the trailing edge. I can't think such vibration is good for the health of the mechanicals, and can only think it is induced by prop power pulses hitting the elevator. Kelly ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:37 AM PST US From: Lenny Iszak Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator pulsation Mine does it too. I machined a new trim bellcrank with pressed in ball bearings to take out all the slop I can from the elevator trim. The cable still allows some slop though. Pulsing is still there. I took a slo-mo video of the stick in flight to determine the pulse rate and it was about 2Hz. Prop blade pulses are RPM/2. I was thinking maybe its an elevator balance problem. Those were the first things I painted, and it took a few tries :) so they may have ended up too heavy. Lenny > On Apr 26, 2019, at 9:41 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > > Has anyone else experienced vibration/pulsation in the elevator? Most noticeable on runup, and in cruise on autopilot. Vibration goes away when power is reduced for descent. The only play I have found so far in the control system is the elevator trim tab cables allow about 1/16" up and down movement of the tabs at the trailing edge. I can't think such vibration is good for the health of the mechanicals, and can only think it is induced by prop power pulses hitting the elevator. > Kelly > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:57 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator pulsation From: Kelly McMullen Glad (I guess) to hear it isn't just my aircraft. I don't know the pulse rate for mine, but I have 3 bladed MT prop, so I assume it would be in the 700-800 rate. I have no paint, so balance is per construction plans. Haven't had elevator off yet to see how close it is to the specs you get with finish kit. My elevator counterbalance fairings don't match as well as I think they should, but haven't tried to get leading edge fairing to match up better with elevator horns. On 4/26/2019 7:26 AM, Lenny Iszak wrote: > > Mine does it too. I machined a new trim bellcrank with pressed in ball bearings to take out all the slop I can from the elevator trim. The cable still allows some slop though. Pulsing is still there. I took a slo-mo video of the stick in flight to determine the pulse rate and it was about 2Hz. Prop blade pulses are RPM/2. > I was thinking maybe its an elevator balance problem. Those were the first things I painted, and it took a few tries :) so they may have ended up too heavy. > > Lenny > > >> On Apr 26, 2019, at 9:41 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >> >> >> Has anyone else experienced vibration/pulsation in the elevator? Most noticeable on runup, and in cruise on autopilot. Vibration goes away when power is reduced for descent. The only play I have found so far in the control system is the elevator trim tab cables allow about 1/16" up and down movement of the tabs at the trailing edge. I can't think such vibration is good for the health of the mechanicals, and can only think it is induced by prop power pulses hitting the elevator. >> Kelly >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:41 AM PST US From: Robert Jones Subject: Re: RV10-List: door pins You might consider going to the stainless door pins. They can be easily retrofitted by cutting off the ends of the aluminum rods and threading them on the inside. A threaded rod screws in (I used Red Loctite on it) them screw the new pins on the protruding threaded rod. Robert Jones > On Apr 26, 2019, at 06:04, dlm wrote: > > Aircraft TT is about 1400. Upon inspection I notice that the door pins are wearing a little from the opening and closing of the doors. pins wear as they exit the doors and engage the fuselage bulkhead. Current circumference of the pins are about .435-.437. what level of wear is acceptable? Has anyone inserted short aluminum rods near the ends to provide extra safety for a pin fracture? ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:22 AM PST US From: Lenny Iszak Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator pulsation Good point. My counterbalance fairings dont match very well either. Lenny > On Apr 26, 2019, at 10:50 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > > Glad (I guess) to hear it isn't just my aircraft. I don't know the pulse rate for mine, but I have 3 bladed MT prop, so I assume it would be in the 700-800 rate. I have no paint, so balance is per construction plans. Haven't had elevator off yet to see how close it is to the specs you get with finish kit. My elevator counterbalance fairings don't match as well as I think they should, but haven't tried to get leading edge fairing to match up better with elevator horns. > > On 4/26/2019 7:26 AM, Lenny Iszak wrote: >> Mine does it too. I machined a new trim bellcrank with pressed in ball bearings to take out all the slop I can from the elevator trim. The cable still allows some slop though. Pulsing is still there. I took a slo-mo video of the stick in flight to determine the pulse rate and it was about 2Hz. Prop blade pulses are RPM/2. >> I was thinking maybe its an elevator balance problem. Those were the first things I painted, and it took a few tries :) so they may have ended up too heavy. >> Lenny >>> On Apr 26, 2019, at 9:41 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >>> >>> >>> Has anyone else experienced vibration/pulsation in the elevator? Most noticeable on runup, and in cruise on autopilot. Vibration goes away when power is reduced for descent. The only play I have found so far in the control system is the elevator trim tab cables allow about 1/16" up and down movement of the tabs at the trailing edge. I can't think such vibration is good for the health of the mechanicals, and can only think it is induced by prop power pulses hitting the elevator. >>> Kelly >>> >>> >>> > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:17 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Elevator pulsation From: "bill.peyton" I have never noticed the vibration, but I did not like all of the slop in the current trim actuation design. I redesigned the trim bell crank pivot point to reduce the slop, and I use #10 castellated nuts to hold the cable ends in lieu of the pins. I have little to no play now. -------- Bill WA0SYV Aviation Partners, LLC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488968#488968 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevator pulsation From: Bill Watson Kelly, FWIW I haven't never experienced any elevator pulsation (my Miata's stick shift pulsates but that's a different matter). I think my elevator counterweight to stabilizer fitting is relatively tight if a bit crudely finished. Bill in Durham NC On 4/26/2019 9:41 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > Has anyone else experienced vibration/pulsation in the elevator? Most > noticeable on runup, and in cruise on autopilot. Vibration goes away > when power is reduced for descent. The only play I have found so far > in the control system is the elevator trim tab cables allow about > 1/16" up and down movement of the tabs at the trailing edge. I can't > think such vibration is good for the health of the mechanicals, and > can only think it is induced by prop power pulses hitting the elevator. > Kelly > > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:28:33 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Tails from the riverbank and fitting doors tips From: "kearney" Hi First, a nickle for the first person who knows the reference in the title. Next fitting door tips. Eons ago I shamelessly stole a bunch of door fitting techniques and put them into a document that has had some circulation. Having just finished my second -10 I have learned a couple of things I that should be added to the document. # 1: Door geometry is complex so only adjust one thing at a time when modifying doors. And make very small adjustments. # 2 : Look for simple solutions BEFORE doing significant mods. Do the simple things even if you are sure they won't work. You may be surprised. Here is what happened to me that gave rise to the above. On my port door, I found the door would close beautifully and then after a few cycles start binding on the cabin top. It took a bit of time to spot where it was binding. Finding out why was a bit of an issue. It turns out the door strut was pushing the door aft slightly aft in the hinges. I was able to correct this by inserting a washer between the hinge halves and thereby pushing the door forward by 30 thou. My initial instinct was to modify door jam which would have been a big job. A 3 cent washer fixed it. My next problem was the starboard door. It was a bear to close. I had to really pull in on the handle and the center interlock cam to get it to close. Even then there was a lot of resistance. My fear was I was going to have to move the door pin blocks. Again, I decided to try putting a little grease on the blocks to see if it would help any. I really didn't think it would but grease was cheap and easy. Not only did it help but the door now engages las smooth as silk. Very easy and very smooth. My guess is the steel pin / aluminum block had a lot of friction based on the way it is making contact. Again, a little grease solved a very big problem. So my recommendation to those frustrated by door fitting issues, be sure to really understand the root cause of your problem - it is usually not obvious and try all the simple things first. You may get lucky. Cheers Les C-GCWZ sold C-GROK ready for first flight (just need good wx) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488972#488972 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:10 PM PST US From: Ben Meyer Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tails from the riverbank and fitting doors tips Any chance you could share your door fitting document? Thanks Ben Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 26, 2019, at 11:27 AM, kearney wrote: > > > Hi > > First, a nickle for the first person who knows the reference in the title. > > Next fitting door tips. > > Eons ago I shamelessly stole a bunch of door fitting techniques and put them into a document that has had some circulation. Having just finished my second -10 I have learned a couple of things I that should be added to the document. > > # 1: Door geometry is complex so only adjust one thing at a time when modifying doors. And make very small adjustments. > > # 2 : Look for simple solutions BEFORE doing significant mods. Do the simple things even if you are sure they won't work. You may be surprised. > > Here is what happened to me that gave rise to the above. > > On my port door, I found the door would close beautifully and then after a few cycles start binding on the cabin top. It took a bit of time to spot where it was binding. Finding out why was a bit of an issue. It turns out the door strut was pushing the door aft slightly aft in the hinges. I was able to correct this by inserting a washer between the hinge halves and thereby pushing the door forward by 30 thou. My initial instinct was to modify door jam which would have been a big job. A 3 cent washer fixed it. > > My next problem was the starboard door. It was a bear to close. I had to really pull in on the handle and the center interlock cam to get it to close. Even then there was a lot of resistance. My fear was I was going to have to move the door pin blocks. Again, I decided to try putting a little grease on the blocks to see if it would help any. I really didn't think it would but grease was cheap and easy. > > Not only did it help but the door now engages las smooth as silk. Very easy and very smooth. My guess is the steel pin / aluminum block had a lot of friction based on the way it is making contact. Again, a little grease solved a very big problem. > > So my recommendation to those frustrated by door fitting issues, be sure to really understand the root cause of your problem - it is usually not obvious and try all the simple things first. You may get lucky. > > > > Cheers > > Les > > C-GCWZ sold > C-GROK ready for first flight (just need good wx) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488972#488972 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:21 PM PST US From: Gary Specketer Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tails from the riverbank and fitting doors tips I too finished another door set (#4). I second what Les said. Gary Specketer Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of kearney Sent: Friday, April 26, 2019 2:32 PM Subject: RV10-List: Tails from the riverbank and fitting doors tips Hi First, a nickle for the first person who knows the reference in the title. Next fitting door tips. Eons ago I shamelessly stole a bunch of door fitting techniques and put the m into a document that has had some circulation. Having just finished my se cond -10 I have learned a couple of things I that should be added to the do cument. # 1: Door geometry is complex so only adjust one thing at a time when modif ying doors. And make very small adjustments. # 2 : Look for simple solutions BEFORE doing significant mods. Do the simpl e things even if you are sure they won't work. You may be surprised. Here is what happened to me that gave rise to the above. On my port door, I found the door would close beautifully and then after a few cycles start binding on the cabin top. It took a bit of time to spot wh ere it was binding. Finding out why was a bit of an issue. It turns out the door strut was pushing the door aft slightly aft in the hinges. I was able to correct this by inserting a washer between the hinge halves and thereby pushing the door forward by 30 thou. My initial instinct was to modify doo r jam which would have been a big job. A 3 cent washer fixed it. My next problem was the starboard door. It was a bear to close. I had to re ally pull in on the handle and the center interlock cam to get it to close. Even then there was a lot of resistance. My fear was I was going to have t o move the door pin blocks. Again, I decided to try putting a little grease on the blocks to see if it would help any. I really didn't think it would but grease was cheap and easy. Not only did it help but the door now engages las smooth as silk. Very easy and very smooth. My guess is the steel pin / aluminum block had a lot of f riction based on the way it is making contact. Again, a little grease solve d a very big problem. So my recommendation to those frustrated by door fitting issues, be sure to really understand the root cause of your problem - it is usually not obvio us and try all the simple things first. You may get lucky. Cheers Les C-GCWZ sold C-GROK ready for first flight (just need good wx) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488972#488972 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:35 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Tails from the riverbank and fitting doors tips From: "kearney" Ben Here is the document. In a way I didn't write it. I send a series of emails to a friend in Oz who then compiled it into a word doc. Cheers Les C-GCWZ sold C-GROK waiting on wx for first flight Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=488976#488976 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/mcmaster_carr_door_seals_140.docx ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.