Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:32 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Bill Boyd)
2. 03:40 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Charlie Derk)
3. 04:52 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Leo Kno)
4. 05:50 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Don McDonald)
5. 05:52 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Alan Mekler MD)
6. 06:24 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Don McDonald)
7. 06:44 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Phil Perry)
8. 07:01 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Phil Perry)
9. 07:08 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Tim Olson)
10. 07:09 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (David Saylor)
11. 07:16 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Tim Olson)
12. 07:39 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Bob Leffler)
13. 07:52 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (David Saylor)
14. 11:09 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Bob Turner)
15. 02:22 PM - Re: Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Bobby Rocco)
16. 02:38 PM - Re: Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Charlie England)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds |
Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew
around in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex,
with the result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought was
trail flaps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS. I got an
immediate overspeed warning from the avionics but it took several seconds
of switch-fiddling to stop the downward movement and get them up again.
Pulling back on the throttle and back on the stick in a flap overspeed
condition is not an instinctive response for me. Regardless, the airframe
withstood the transgression without visibly apparent damage. Just a data
point and a cautionary reminder.
-Bill Boyd
N130YD - 45 hours
On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier <ngautier@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on several
> RV-10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be:
> 1st notch, trail. 122 kias max
> 2nd notch, 18 deg. 96 kias max
> 3rd notch, 33 deg. 87 kias max
>
> I talked to the technical desk at Van=99s and they denied any knowl
edge of
> any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount.
>
> Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe=99s and how t
he
> numbers were arrived at?
>
> Regards,
> Nick Gautier
> N363TG
> SN 40363
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds |
I think that most of the avionics suites these days do not allow the
flaps to be extended above a certain programmable airspeed. Ive got
mine wired through my VPX and I know they won=99t deploy. I
believe that Garmin has a similar setting.
Charlie
> On May 4, 2021, at 6:31 AM, Bill Boyd <sportav8r@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew
around in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex,
with the result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought
was trail flaps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS. I got
an immediate overspeed warning from the avionics but it took several
seconds of switch-fiddling to stop the downward movement and get them up
again. Pulling back on the throttle and back on the stick in a flap
overspeed condition is not an instinctive response for me. Regardless,
the airframe withstood the transgression without visibly apparent
damage. Just a data point and a cautionary reminder.
>
> -Bill Boyd
> N130YD - 45 hours
>
> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier <ngautier@earthlink.net
<mailto:ngautier@earthlink.net>> wrote:
<mailto:ngautier@earthlink.net>>
>
> I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on
several RV-10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be:
> 1st notch, trail. 122 kias max
> 2nd notch, 18 deg. 96 kias max
> 3rd notch, 33 deg. 87 kias max
>
> I talked to the technical desk at Van=99s and they denied any
knowledge of any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount.
>
> Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe=99s and
how the numbers were arrived at?
>
> Regards,
> Nick Gautier
> N363TG
> SN 40363
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> ==========
> -List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds |
I am not sure of the origin of the speeds you note, but have a few thoughts
Trail to 3 degrees reflex are allowed at any speed within the envelope.
I tend to use first notch at anything under 100 knots. Good round number
and easy to remember.
I never use max. (30+ degrees based on your specific set up) unless high on
short final, need/want the extra margin to stall speed, or need/want the
extra drag to shorten the landing roll.
I use all settings during pattern work in order to remain familiar with the
handling of the plane with each.
Leo
On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 6:36 AM Bill Boyd <sportav8r@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew
> around in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex,
> with the result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought wa
s
> trail flaps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS. I got an
> immediate overspeed warning from the avionics but it took several seconds
> of switch-fiddling to stop the downward movement and get them up again.
> Pulling back on the throttle and back on the stick in a flap overspeed
> condition is not an instinctive response for me. Regardless, the airfram
e
> withstood the transgression without visibly apparent damage. Just a data
> point and a cautionary reminder.
>
> -Bill Boyd
> N130YD - 45 hours
>
> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier <ngautier@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on several
>> RV-10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be:
>> 1st notch, trail. 122 kias max
>> 2nd notch, 18 deg. 96 kias max
>> 3rd notch, 33 deg. 87 kias max
>>
>> I talked to the technical desk at Van=99s and they denied any know
ledge of
>> any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount.
>>
>> Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe=99s and how
the
>> numbers were arrived at?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Nick Gautier
>> N363TG
>> SN 40363
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> ==========
>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> WIKI -
>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds |
Just an FYI concerning the reflex flap setting.... for whatever reason (MT
prop with two batteries in back?) putting the flaps in reflex in cruise fo
r me only generates an increase in ground speed about 5% of the time.=C2-
Suggestion:=C2- play with the setting in cruise to make sure you're actu
ally using the most efficient setting.
On Tuesday, May 4, 2021, 05:44:44 AM CDT, Bill Boyd <sportav8r@gmail.co
m> wrote:
Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew arou
nd in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex, with t
he result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought=C2-was t
rail flaps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS.=C2- I got an
immediate overspeed warning from the avionics but it took several seconds
of switch-fiddling to stop the downward movement and get them up again.=C2
- Pulling back on the throttle=C2-and back on the stick in a flap overs
peed condition is not=C2-an instinctive response for me.=C2- Regardless
, the airframe withstood the transgression without visibly apparent damage.
=C2- Just a data point and a cautionary reminder.
-Bill BoydN130YD - 45 hours
On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier <ngautier@earthlink.net> wrote:
I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on several RV
-10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be:
1st notch, trail.=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-122 kias max
2nd notch, 18 deg.=C2- 96 kias max
3rd notch,=C2- 33 deg.=C2- 87 kias max
I talked to the technical desk at Van=99s and they denied any knowled
ge of any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount.
Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe=99s and how the
numbers were arrived at?
Regards,
Nick Gautier
N363TG
SN 40363
Sent from my iPhone
-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?RV10-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
b Site -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds |
My POH say 104 kts for 1st and 2 nd notch
87 kts for full
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 4, 2021, at 7:59 AM, Leo Kno <leok4880@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> I am not sure of the origin of the speeds you note, but have a few thought
s
>
> Trail to 3 degrees reflex are allowed at any speed within the envelope.
> I tend to use first notch at anything under 100 knots. Good round number a
nd easy to remember.
> I never use max. (30+ degrees based on your specific set up) unless high o
n short final, need/want the extra margin to stall speed, or need/want the e
xtra drag to shorten the landing roll.
>
> I use all settings during pattern work in order to remain familiar with th
e handling of the plane with each.
>
> Leo
>
>> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 6:36 AM Bill Boyd <sportav8r@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew aro
und in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex, with t
he result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought was trail f
laps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS. I got an immediate o
verspeed warning from the avionics but it took several seconds of switch-fid
dling to stop the downward movement and get them up again. Pulling back on t
he throttle and back on the stick in a flap overspeed condition is not an in
stinctive response for me. Regardless, the airframe withstood the transgres
sion without visibly apparent damage. Just a data point and a cautionary re
minder.
>>
>> -Bill Boyd
>> N130YD - 45 hours
>>
>>> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier <ngautier@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on several
RV-10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be:
>>> 1st notch, trail. 122 kias max
>>> 2nd notch, 18 deg. 96 kias max
>>> 3rd notch, 33 deg. 87 kias max
>>>
>>> I talked to the technical desk at Van=99s and they denied any know
ledge of any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount.
>>>
>>> Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe=99s and how t
he numbers were arrived at?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Nick Gautier
>>> N363TG
>>> SN 40363
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?RV10-List
>>> ==========
>>> FORUMS -
>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> WIKI -
>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> b Site -
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on
>>> ==========
>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds |
Can anyone chime in as to why there would be a maximum speed for flaps in
trail?????=C2- Most planes don't even have a reflex flap setting.=C2- W
ould that mean that they shouldn't go faster than 104kts, or 122kts (depend
ing on who's numbers we want to use.).
On Tuesday, May 4, 2021, 08:09:13 AM CDT, Alan Mekler MD <amekler@metro
cast.net> wrote:
My POH say 104 kts for 1st and 2 nd notch87 kts for full
Sent from my iPhone
On May 4, 2021, at 7:59 AM, Leo Kno <leok4880@gmail.com> wrote:
=EF=BBI am not sure of the origin of the speeds you note, but have a few
thoughts=C2-
Trail to 3 degrees reflex are allowed at any speed within the envelope.I te
nd to use first notch at anything under 100 knots. Good round number and ea
sy to remember.I never use max. (30+ degrees based on your specific set up)
unless high on short final, need/want the extra margin to stall speed, or
need/want the extra drag to shorten the landing roll.
I use all settings during pattern work in order to remain familiar with the
handling of the plane with each.
Leo
On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 6:36 AM Bill Boyd <sportav8r@gmail.com> wrote:
Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew aroun
d in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex, with th
e result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought=C2-was tr
ail flaps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS.=C2- I got an
immediate overspeed warning from the avionics but it took several seconds o
f switch-fiddling to stop the downward movement and get them up again.=C2
- Pulling back on the throttle=C2-and back on the stick in a flap overs
peed condition is not=C2-an instinctive response for me.=C2- Regardless
, the airframe withstood the transgression without visibly apparent damage.
=C2- Just a data point and a cautionary reminder.
-Bill BoydN130YD - 45 hours
On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier <ngautier@earthlink.net> wrote:
I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on several RV
-10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be:
1st notch, trail.=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-122 kias max
2nd notch, 18 deg.=C2- 96 kias max
3rd notch,=C2- 33 deg.=C2- 87 kias max
I talked to the technical desk at Van=99s and they denied any knowled
ge of any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount.
Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe=99s and how the
numbers were arrived at?
Regards,
Nick Gautier
N363TG
SN 40363
Sent from my iPhone
-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?RV10-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
b Site -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds |
The original source was found in Section 5 of Vans plans. In my book it's o
n page 21. (SN 40750 - I heard it may have been omitted in later versions).
They provide speeds for the trail position, then half, then full.
I plotted the trail position (0=C2=B0 by my reference), flaps half (15=C2=B0
) and flaps full (30=C2=B0) on a chart and determined where 10=C2=B0 and 20=C2
=B0 would fall on the curve.
So on my airplane I have -3=C2=B0 (reflex), 0=C2=B0 (Trail w/ airspeed limi
tation), 10=C2=B0 (w/ airspeed limitation), 20=C2=B0 (w/airspeed limitation)
, and 30=C2=B0 (w/airspeed limitation).
I just did the math using their data to give me a few more flap choices alon
g the way.
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 4, 2021, at 6:56 AM, Alan Mekler MD <amekler@metrocast.net> wrote:
>
> =EF=BBMy POH say 104 kts for 1st and 2 nd notch
> 87 kts for full
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>> On May 4, 2021, at 7:59 AM, Leo Kno <leok4880@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>> =EF=BB
>> I am not sure of the origin of the speeds you note, but have a few though
ts
>>
>> Trail to 3 degrees reflex are allowed at any speed within the envelope.
>> I tend to use first notch at anything under 100 knots. Good round number a
nd easy to remember.
>> I never use max. (30+ degrees based on your specific set up) unless high o
n short final, need/want the extra margin to stall speed, or need/want the e
xtra drag to shorten the landing roll.
>>
>> I use all settings during pattern work in order to remain familiar with t
he handling of the plane with each.
>>
>> Leo
>>
>>> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 6:36 AM Bill Boyd <sportav8r@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew ar
ound in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex, with t
he result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought was trail f
laps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS. I got an immediate o
verspeed warning from the avionics but it took several seconds of switch-fid
dling to stop the downward movement and get them up again. Pulling back on t
he throttle and back on the stick in a flap overspeed condition is not an in
stinctive response for me. Regardless, the airframe withstood the transgres
sion without visibly apparent damage. Just a data point and a cautionary re
minder.
>>>
>>> -Bill Boyd
>>> N130YD - 45 hours
>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier <ngautier@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on severa
l RV-10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be:
>>>> 1st notch, trail. 122 kias max
>>>> 2nd notch, 18 deg. 96 kias max
>>>> 3rd notch, 33 deg. 87 kias max
>>>>
>>>> I talked to the technical desk at Van=99s and they denied any kno
wledge of any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount.
>>>>
>>>> Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe=99s and how
the numbers were arrived at?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Nick Gautier
>>>> N363TG
>>>> SN 40363
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> ==========
>>>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Na
vigator?RV10-List
>>>> ==========
>>>> FORUMS -
>>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>> ==========
>>>> WIKI -
>>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>>>> ==========
>>>> b Site -
>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
>>>> ==========
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds |
The original source was found in Section 5 of Vans plans. In my book it's o
n page 21. (SN 40750 - I heard it may have been omitted in later versions).
They provide speeds for the trail position, then half, then full.
I plotted the trail position (0=C2=B0 by my reference), flaps half (15=C2=B0
) and flaps full (30=C2=B0) on a chart and determined where 10=C2=B0 and 20=C2
=B0 would fall on the curve.
So on my airplane I have -3=C2=B0 (reflex), 0=C2=B0 (Trail w/ airspeed limi
tation), 10=C2=B0 (w/ airspeed limitation), 20=C2=B0 (w/airspeed limitation)
, and 30=C2=B0 (w/airspeed limitation).
I just did the math using their data to give me a few more flap choices alon
g the way.
Phil
Sent from my iPad
> On May 4, 2021, at 7:44 AM, Phil Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The original source was found in Section 5 of Vans plans. In my book it'
s on page 21. (SN 40750 - I heard it may have been omitted in later version
s).
>
> They provide speeds for the trail position, then half, then full.
>
> I plotted the trail position (0=C2=B0 by my reference), flaps half (15=C2=B0
) and flaps full (30=C2=B0) on a chart and determined where 10=C2=B0 and 20=C2
=B0 would fall on the curve.
>
> So on my airplane I have -3=C2=B0 (reflex), 0=C2=B0 (Trail w/ airspeed li
mitation), 10=C2=B0 (w/ airspeed limitation), 20=C2=B0 (w/airspeed limitatio
n), and 30=C2=B0 (w/airspeed limitation).
>
> I just did the math using their data to give me a few more flap choices al
ong the way.
>
> Phil
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds |
That's what I like to see. A man with solid data. ;) Thanks Phil!
For those who are in probably the majority, who use KTS, that's:
122 kts 0 degrees
96 kts 18 Degrees
87 kts 33 Degrees
These are rounded UP (less conservative) by less than 1 kt. Maybe if you
have the ultra high precision airspeed indicator with 3 decimal point
resolution,
and are a zen master RV-10 pilot, you can do the original math and fly
the .1 to .5 kts slower so you don't overspeed the flaps. ;)
Tim
On 5/4/2021 8:44 AM, Phil Perry wrote:
> The original source was found in Section 5 of Vans plans. In my book
> it's on page 21. (SN 40750 - I heard it may have been omitted in
> later versions).
>
> They provide speeds for the trail position, then half, then full.
>
> I plotted the trail position (0 by my reference), flaps half (15)
> and flaps full (30) on a chart and determined where 10 and 20 would
> fall on the curve.
>
> So on my airplane I have -3 (reflex), 0 (Trail w/ airspeed
> limitation), 10 (w/ airspeed limitation), 20 (w/airspeed
> limitation), and 30 (w/airspeed limitation).
>
> I just did the math using their data to give me a few more flap
> choices along the way.
>
> Phil
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On May 4, 2021, at 6:56 AM, Alan Mekler MD <amekler@metrocast.net> wrote:
>>
>> My POH say 104 kts for 1st and 2 nd notch
>> 87 kts for full
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On May 4, 2021, at 7:59 AM, Leo Kno <leok4880@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I am not sure of the origin of the speeds you note, but have a few
>>> thoughts
>>>
>>> Trail to 3 degrees reflex are allowed at any speed within the envelope.
>>> I tend to use first notch at anything under 100 knots. Good round
>>> number and easy to remember.
>>> I never use max. (30+ degrees based on your specific set up) unless
>>> high on short final, need/want the extra margin to stall speed, or
>>> need/want the extra drag to shorten the landing roll.
>>>
>>> I use all settings during pattern work in order to remain familiar
>>> with the handling of the plane with each.
>>>
>>> Leo
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 6:36 AM Bill Boyd <sportav8r@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:sportav8r@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and
>>> flew around in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they
>>> were in reflex, with the result that as I entered the pattern I
>>> put out what I thoughtwas trail flaps but was actually 15
>>> degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS. I got an immediate overspeed
>>> warning from the avionics but it took several seconds of
>>> switch-fiddling to stop the downward movement and get them up
>>> again. Pulling back on the throttleand back on the stick in a
>>> flap overspeed condition is notan instinctive response for me.
>>> Regardless, the airframe withstood the transgression without
>>> visibly apparent damage. Just a data point and a cautionary
>>> reminder.
>>>
>>> -Bill Boyd
>>> N130YD - 45 hours
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier <ngautier@earthlink.net
>>> <mailto:ngautier@earthlink.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> <ngautier@earthlink.net <mailto:ngautier@earthlink.net>>
>>>
>>> I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating
>>> around on several RV-10 POHs and in another place or two.
>>> The list seems to be:
>>> 1st notch, trail. 122 kias max
>>> 2nd notch, 18 deg. 96 kias max
>>> 3rd notch, 33 deg. 87 kias max
>>>
>>> I talked to the technical desk at Vans and they denied any
>>> knowledge of any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount.
>>>
>>> Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfes and
>>> how the numbers were arrived at?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Nick Gautier
>>> N363TG
>>> SN 40363
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> -List" rel="noreferrer"
>>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
>>> ==========
>>> FORUMS -
>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>> ==========
>>> WIKI -
>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>>> <http://wiki.matronics.com>
>>> ==========
>>> b Site -
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> rel="noreferrer"
>>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>>> ==========
>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds |
That reference is still there as of 2017. It's in the plans that Van's
sends out on a memory stick.
For me the pdf version of the plans is a game changer. SO much easier to
manage. I carry it in the plane.
--Dave Saylor
SN 0394, 2025 hrs
On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 6:49 AM Phil Perry <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
> The original source was found in Section 5 of Vans plans. In my book
> it's on page 21. (SN 40750 - I heard it may have been omitted in later
> versions).
>
> They provide speeds for the trail position, then half, then full.
>
> I plotted the trail position (0=C2=B0 by my reference), flaps half (15=C2
=B0) and
> flaps full (30=C2=B0) on a chart and determined where 10=C2=B0 and 20=C2
=B0 would fall on
> the curve.
>
> So on my airplane I have -3=C2=B0 (reflex), 0=C2=B0 (Trail w/ airspeed l
imitation),
> 10=C2=B0 (w/ airspeed limitation), 20=C2=B0 (w/airspeed limitation), and
30=C2=B0
> (w/airspeed limitation).
>
> I just did the math using their data to give me a few more flap choices
> along the way.
>
> Phil
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 4, 2021, at 6:56 AM, Alan Mekler MD <amekler@metrocast.net> wrote:
>
> =EF=BBMy POH say 104 kts for 1st and 2 nd notch
> 87 kts for full
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 4, 2021, at 7:59 AM, Leo Kno <leok4880@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> I am not sure of the origin of the speeds you note, but have a few
> thoughts
>
> Trail to 3 degrees reflex are allowed at any speed within the envelope.
> I tend to use first notch at anything under 100 knots. Good round number
> and easy to remember.
> I never use max. (30+ degrees based on your specific set up) unless high
> on short final, need/want the extra margin to stall speed, or need/want t
he
> extra drag to shorten the landing roll.
>
> I use all settings during pattern work in order to remain familiar with
> the handling of the plane with each.
>
> Leo
>
> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 6:36 AM Bill Boyd <sportav8r@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew
>> around in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex,
>> with the result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought w
as
>> trail flaps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS. I got an
>> immediate overspeed warning from the avionics but it took several second
s
>> of switch-fiddling to stop the downward movement and get them up again.
>> Pulling back on the throttle and back on the stick in a flap overspeed
>> condition is not an instinctive response for me. Regardless, the airfra
me
>> withstood the transgression without visibly apparent damage. Just a dat
a
>> point and a cautionary reminder.
>>
>> -Bill Boyd
>> N130YD - 45 hours
>>
>> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier <ngautier@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on severa
l
>>> RV-10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be:
>>> 1st notch, trail. 122 kias max
>>> 2nd notch, 18 deg. 96 kias max
>>> 3rd notch, 33 deg. 87 kias max
>>>
>>> I talked to the technical desk at Van=99s and they denied any kno
wledge of
>>> any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount.
>>>
>>> Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe=99s and how
the
>>> numbers were arrived at?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Nick Gautier
>>> N363TG
>>> SN 40363
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> ==========
>>> FORUMS -
>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> WIKI -
>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> b Site -
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
>>> ==========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds |
That's what I like to see. A man with solid data. ;) Thanks Phil!
For those who are in probably the majority, who use KTS, that's:
122 kts 0 degrees
96 kts 18 Degrees
87 kts 33 Degrees
These are rounded UP (less conservative) by less than 1 kt. Maybe if you
have the ultra high precision airspeed indicator with 3 decimal point
resolution, and are a zen master RV-10 pilot, you can do the original math and
fly
the .1 to .5 kts slower so you don't over speed the flaps.
Tim
On 5/4/2021 8:44 AM, Phil Perry wrote:
> The original source was found in Section 5 of Vans plans. In my book
> it's on page 21. (SN 40750 - I heard it may have been omitted in
> later versions).
>
> They provide speeds for the trail position, then half, then full.
>
> I plotted the trail position (0 by my reference), flaps half (15)
> and flaps full (30) on a chart and determined where 10 and 20 would
> fall on the curve.
>
> So on my airplane I have -3 (reflex), 0 (Trail w/ airspeed
> limitation), 10 (w/ airspeed limitation), 20 (w/airspeed
> limitation), and 30 (w/airspeed limitation).
>
> I just did the math using their data to give me a few more flap
> choices along the way.
>
> Phil
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | RV-10 flap extend speeds |
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds |
>
> Phil nailed it. It's still in the pdf plans that Van's sends out on a
> memory stick. I got one earlier this year.
>
--Dave Saylor
SN0394 2025 hrs
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds |
As several posts have said, 122/96/87 kias are the posted speeds in the documentation
of older -10s. However, not too long ago Vans removed the restriction on
in trail (0 deg). The limiting factor was the flap extension arm, and they decided
it was strong enough up to Vne.
Ive done just a bit of experimentation with cruising with the flaps in trail, at
higher altitudes. With a modest load (400 lbs in cabin, 3/4 fuel) at a density
altitude of 17,000, going back and forth between full up and in-trail, I thought
in-trail might have been a knot or two faster. There was just enough turbulence
that I couldnt say for sure. I spoke with Steve, the wing designer, and
he confirmed that high enough and heavy enough, you could expect in-trail to
work better.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501696#501696
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds |
How can I unsubscribe from the email list?
Thanks
Bobby
> On May 4, 2021, at 11:15 AM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>
>
> As several posts have said, 122/96/87 kias are the posted speeds in the documentation
of older -10?Ts. However, not too long ago Vans removed the restriction
on ?~in trail?T (0 deg). The limiting factor was the flap extension arm, and
they decided it was strong enough up to Vne.
>
> I?Tve done just a bit of experimentation with cruising with the flaps in trail,
at higher altitudes. With a modest load (400 lbs in cabin, 3/4 fuel) at a density
altitude of 17,000?T, going back and forth between full up and in-trail,
I thought in-trail might have been a knot or two faster. There was just enough
turbulence that I couldn?Tt say for sure. I spoke with Steve, the wing designer,
and he confirmed that high enough and heavy enough, you could expect in-trail
to work better.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501696#501696
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds |
On 5/4/2021 4:20 PM, Bobby Rocco wrote:
>
> How can I unsubscribe from the email list?
>
> Thanks
> Bobby
Instructions on the bottom of the email:
>
>> On May 4, 2021, at 11:15 AM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>> As several posts have said, 122/96/87 kias are the posted speeds in the documentation
of older -10?Ts. However, not too long ago Vans removed the restriction
on ?~in trail?T (0 deg). The limiting factor was the flap extension arm, and
they decided it was strong enough up to Vne.
>>
>> I?Tve done just a bit of experimentation with cruising with the flaps in trail,
at higher altitudes. With a modest load (400 lbs in cabin, 3/4 fuel) at a
density altitude of 17,000?T, going back and forth between full up and in-trail,
I thought in-trail might have been a knot or two faster. There was just enough
turbulence that I couldn?Tt say for sure. I spoke with Steve, the wing designer,
and he confirmed that high enough and heavy enough, you could expect in-trail
to work better.
>>
>> --------
>> Bob Turner
>> RV-10 QB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501696#501696
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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