---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/04/21: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:32 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Bill Boyd) 2. 03:40 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Charlie Derk) 3. 04:52 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Leo Kno) 4. 05:50 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Don McDonald) 5. 05:52 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Alan Mekler MD) 6. 06:24 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Don McDonald) 7. 06:44 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Phil Perry) 8. 07:01 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Phil Perry) 9. 07:08 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Tim Olson) 10. 07:09 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (David Saylor) 11. 07:16 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Tim Olson) 12. 07:39 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Bob Leffler) 13. 07:52 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (David Saylor) 14. 11:09 AM - Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Bob Turner) 15. 02:22 PM - Re: Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Bobby Rocco) 16. 02:38 PM - Re: Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds (Charlie England) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:32:11 AM PST US From: Bill Boyd Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 flap extend speeds Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew around in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex, with the result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought was trail flaps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS. I got an immediate overspeed warning from the avionics but it took several seconds of switch-fiddling to stop the downward movement and get them up again. Pulling back on the throttle and back on the stick in a flap overspeed condition is not an instinctive response for me. Regardless, the airframe withstood the transgression without visibly apparent damage. Just a data point and a cautionary reminder. -Bill Boyd N130YD - 45 hours On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier wrote: > > I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on several > RV-10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be: > 1st notch, trail. 122 kias max > 2nd notch, 18 deg. 96 kias max > 3rd notch, 33 deg. 87 kias max > > I talked to the technical desk at Van=99s and they denied any knowl edge of > any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount. > > Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe=99s and how t he > numbers were arrived at? > > Regards, > Nick Gautier > N363TG > SN 40363 > > Sent from my iPhone > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:40:57 AM PST US From: Charlie Derk Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 flap extend speeds I think that most of the avionics suites these days do not allow the flaps to be extended above a certain programmable airspeed. Ive got mine wired through my VPX and I know they won=99t deploy. I believe that Garmin has a similar setting. Charlie > On May 4, 2021, at 6:31 AM, Bill Boyd wrote: > > Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew around in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex, with the result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought was trail flaps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS. I got an immediate overspeed warning from the avionics but it took several seconds of switch-fiddling to stop the downward movement and get them up again. Pulling back on the throttle and back on the stick in a flap overspeed condition is not an instinctive response for me. Regardless, the airframe withstood the transgression without visibly apparent damage. Just a data point and a cautionary reminder. > > -Bill Boyd > N130YD - 45 hours > > On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier > wrote: > > > I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on several RV-10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be: > 1st notch, trail. 122 kias max > 2nd notch, 18 deg. 96 kias max > 3rd notch, 33 deg. 87 kias max > > I talked to the technical desk at Van=99s and they denied any knowledge of any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount. > > Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe=99s and how the numbers were arrived at? > > Regards, > Nick Gautier > N363TG > SN 40363 > > Sent from my iPhone > > ========== > -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > ========== > FORUMS - > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > WIKI - > errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com > ========== > b Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:51 AM PST US From: Leo Kno Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 flap extend speeds I am not sure of the origin of the speeds you note, but have a few thoughts Trail to 3 degrees reflex are allowed at any speed within the envelope. I tend to use first notch at anything under 100 knots. Good round number and easy to remember. I never use max. (30+ degrees based on your specific set up) unless high on short final, need/want the extra margin to stall speed, or need/want the extra drag to shorten the landing roll. I use all settings during pattern work in order to remain familiar with the handling of the plane with each. Leo On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 6:36 AM Bill Boyd wrote: > Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew > around in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex, > with the result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought wa s > trail flaps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS. I got an > immediate overspeed warning from the avionics but it took several seconds > of switch-fiddling to stop the downward movement and get them up again. > Pulling back on the throttle and back on the stick in a flap overspeed > condition is not an instinctive response for me. Regardless, the airfram e > withstood the transgression without visibly apparent damage. Just a data > point and a cautionary reminder. > > -Bill Boyd > N130YD - 45 hours > > On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier wrote: > >> >> I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on several >> RV-10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be: >> 1st notch, trail. 122 kias max >> 2nd notch, 18 deg. 96 kias max >> 3rd notch, 33 deg. 87 kias max >> >> I talked to the technical desk at Van=99s and they denied any know ledge of >> any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount. >> >> Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe=99s and how the >> numbers were arrived at? >> >> Regards, >> Nick Gautier >> N363TG >> SN 40363 >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> ========== >> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributi on >> ========== >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:38 AM PST US From: Don McDonald Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 flap extend speeds Just an FYI concerning the reflex flap setting.... for whatever reason (MT prop with two batteries in back?) putting the flaps in reflex in cruise fo r me only generates an increase in ground speed about 5% of the time.=C2- Suggestion:=C2- play with the setting in cruise to make sure you're actu ally using the most efficient setting. On Tuesday, May 4, 2021, 05:44:44 AM CDT, Bill Boyd wrote: Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew arou nd in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex, with t he result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought=C2-was t rail flaps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS.=C2- I got an immediate overspeed warning from the avionics but it took several seconds of switch-fiddling to stop the downward movement and get them up again.=C2 - Pulling back on the throttle=C2-and back on the stick in a flap overs peed condition is not=C2-an instinctive response for me.=C2- Regardless , the airframe withstood the transgression without visibly apparent damage. =C2- Just a data point and a cautionary reminder. -Bill BoydN130YD - 45 hours On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier wrote: I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on several RV -10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be: 1st notch, trail.=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-122 kias max 2nd notch, 18 deg.=C2- 96 kias max 3rd notch,=C2- 33 deg.=C2- 87 kias max I talked to the technical desk at Van=99s and they denied any knowled ge of any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount. Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe=99s and how the numbers were arrived at? Regards, Nick Gautier N363TG SN 40363 Sent from my iPhone -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga tor?RV10-List FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com b Site - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:23 AM PST US From: Alan Mekler MD Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 flap extend speeds My POH say 104 kts for 1st and 2 nd notch 87 kts for full Sent from my iPhone > On May 4, 2021, at 7:59 AM, Leo Kno wrote: > > =EF=BB > I am not sure of the origin of the speeds you note, but have a few thought s > > Trail to 3 degrees reflex are allowed at any speed within the envelope. > I tend to use first notch at anything under 100 knots. Good round number a nd easy to remember. > I never use max. (30+ degrees based on your specific set up) unless high o n short final, need/want the extra margin to stall speed, or need/want the e xtra drag to shorten the landing roll. > > I use all settings during pattern work in order to remain familiar with th e handling of the plane with each. > > Leo > >> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 6:36 AM Bill Boyd wrote: >> Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew aro und in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex, with t he result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought was trail f laps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS. I got an immediate o verspeed warning from the avionics but it took several seconds of switch-fid dling to stop the downward movement and get them up again. Pulling back on t he throttle and back on the stick in a flap overspeed condition is not an in stinctive response for me. Regardless, the airframe withstood the transgres sion without visibly apparent damage. Just a data point and a cautionary re minder. >> >> -Bill Boyd >> N130YD - 45 hours >> >>> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier wrote: >>> >>> I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on several RV-10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be: >>> 1st notch, trail. 122 kias max >>> 2nd notch, 18 deg. 96 kias max >>> 3rd notch, 33 deg. 87 kias max >>> >>> I talked to the technical desk at Van=99s and they denied any know ledge of any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount. >>> >>> Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe=99s and how t he numbers were arrived at? >>> >>> Regards, >>> Nick Gautier >>> N363TG >>> SN 40363 >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> ========== >>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?RV10-List >>> ========== >>> FORUMS - >>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> WIKI - >>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> b Site - >>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributi on >>> ========== >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:07 AM PST US From: Don McDonald Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 flap extend speeds Can anyone chime in as to why there would be a maximum speed for flaps in trail?????=C2- Most planes don't even have a reflex flap setting.=C2- W ould that mean that they shouldn't go faster than 104kts, or 122kts (depend ing on who's numbers we want to use.). On Tuesday, May 4, 2021, 08:09:13 AM CDT, Alan Mekler MD wrote: My POH say 104 kts for 1st and 2 nd notch87 kts for full Sent from my iPhone On May 4, 2021, at 7:59 AM, Leo Kno wrote: =EF=BBI am not sure of the origin of the speeds you note, but have a few thoughts=C2- Trail to 3 degrees reflex are allowed at any speed within the envelope.I te nd to use first notch at anything under 100 knots. Good round number and ea sy to remember.I never use max. (30+ degrees based on your specific set up) unless high on short final, need/want the extra margin to stall speed, or need/want the extra drag to shorten the landing roll. I use all settings during pattern work in order to remain familiar with the handling of the plane with each. Leo On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 6:36 AM Bill Boyd wrote: Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew aroun d in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex, with th e result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought=C2-was tr ail flaps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS.=C2- I got an immediate overspeed warning from the avionics but it took several seconds o f switch-fiddling to stop the downward movement and get them up again.=C2 - Pulling back on the throttle=C2-and back on the stick in a flap overs peed condition is not=C2-an instinctive response for me.=C2- Regardless , the airframe withstood the transgression without visibly apparent damage. =C2- Just a data point and a cautionary reminder. -Bill BoydN130YD - 45 hours On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier wrote: I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on several RV -10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be: 1st notch, trail.=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-122 kias max 2nd notch, 18 deg.=C2- 96 kias max 3rd notch,=C2- 33 deg.=C2- 87 kias max I talked to the technical desk at Van=99s and they denied any knowled ge of any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount. Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe=99s and how the numbers were arrived at? Regards, Nick Gautier N363TG SN 40363 Sent from my iPhone -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga tor?RV10-List FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com b Site - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:51 AM PST US From: Phil Perry Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 flap extend speeds The original source was found in Section 5 of Vans plans. In my book it's o n page 21. (SN 40750 - I heard it may have been omitted in later versions). They provide speeds for the trail position, then half, then full. I plotted the trail position (0=C2=B0 by my reference), flaps half (15=C2=B0 ) and flaps full (30=C2=B0) on a chart and determined where 10=C2=B0 and 20=C2 =B0 would fall on the curve. So on my airplane I have -3=C2=B0 (reflex), 0=C2=B0 (Trail w/ airspeed limi tation), 10=C2=B0 (w/ airspeed limitation), 20=C2=B0 (w/airspeed limitation) , and 30=C2=B0 (w/airspeed limitation). I just did the math using their data to give me a few more flap choices alon g the way. Phil Sent from my iPhone > On May 4, 2021, at 6:56 AM, Alan Mekler MD wrote: > > =EF=BBMy POH say 104 kts for 1st and 2 nd notch > 87 kts for full > > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On May 4, 2021, at 7:59 AM, Leo Kno wrote: >>> >> =EF=BB >> I am not sure of the origin of the speeds you note, but have a few though ts >> >> Trail to 3 degrees reflex are allowed at any speed within the envelope. >> I tend to use first notch at anything under 100 knots. Good round number a nd easy to remember. >> I never use max. (30+ degrees based on your specific set up) unless high o n short final, need/want the extra margin to stall speed, or need/want the e xtra drag to shorten the landing roll. >> >> I use all settings during pattern work in order to remain familiar with t he handling of the plane with each. >> >> Leo >> >>> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 6:36 AM Bill Boyd wrote: >>> Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew ar ound in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex, with t he result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought was trail f laps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS. I got an immediate o verspeed warning from the avionics but it took several seconds of switch-fid dling to stop the downward movement and get them up again. Pulling back on t he throttle and back on the stick in a flap overspeed condition is not an in stinctive response for me. Regardless, the airframe withstood the transgres sion without visibly apparent damage. Just a data point and a cautionary re minder. >>> >>> -Bill Boyd >>> N130YD - 45 hours >>> >>>> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier wrote: >>>> >>>> I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on severa l RV-10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be: >>>> 1st notch, trail. 122 kias max >>>> 2nd notch, 18 deg. 96 kias max >>>> 3rd notch, 33 deg. 87 kias max >>>> >>>> I talked to the technical desk at Van=99s and they denied any kno wledge of any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount. >>>> >>>> Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe=99s and how the numbers were arrived at? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Nick Gautier >>>> N363TG >>>> SN 40363 >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> ========== >>>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Na vigator?RV10-List >>>> ========== >>>> FORUMS - >>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>>> ========== >>>> WIKI - >>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >>>> ========== >>>> b Site - >>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion >>>> ========== >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:16 AM PST US From: Phil Perry Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 flap extend speeds The original source was found in Section 5 of Vans plans. In my book it's o n page 21. (SN 40750 - I heard it may have been omitted in later versions). They provide speeds for the trail position, then half, then full. I plotted the trail position (0=C2=B0 by my reference), flaps half (15=C2=B0 ) and flaps full (30=C2=B0) on a chart and determined where 10=C2=B0 and 20=C2 =B0 would fall on the curve. So on my airplane I have -3=C2=B0 (reflex), 0=C2=B0 (Trail w/ airspeed limi tation), 10=C2=B0 (w/ airspeed limitation), 20=C2=B0 (w/airspeed limitation) , and 30=C2=B0 (w/airspeed limitation). I just did the math using their data to give me a few more flap choices alon g the way. Phil Sent from my iPad > On May 4, 2021, at 7:44 AM, Phil Perry wrote: > > The original source was found in Section 5 of Vans plans. In my book it' s on page 21. (SN 40750 - I heard it may have been omitted in later version s). > > They provide speeds for the trail position, then half, then full. > > I plotted the trail position (0=C2=B0 by my reference), flaps half (15=C2=B0 ) and flaps full (30=C2=B0) on a chart and determined where 10=C2=B0 and 20=C2 =B0 would fall on the curve. > > So on my airplane I have -3=C2=B0 (reflex), 0=C2=B0 (Trail w/ airspeed li mitation), 10=C2=B0 (w/ airspeed limitation), 20=C2=B0 (w/airspeed limitatio n), and 30=C2=B0 (w/airspeed limitation). > > I just did the math using their data to give me a few more flap choices al ong the way. > > Phil > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:48 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 flap extend speeds From: Tim Olson That's what I like to see. A man with solid data. ;) Thanks Phil! For those who are in probably the majority, who use KTS, that's: 122 kts 0 degrees 96 kts 18 Degrees 87 kts 33 Degrees These are rounded UP (less conservative) by less than 1 kt. Maybe if you have the ultra high precision airspeed indicator with 3 decimal point resolution, and are a zen master RV-10 pilot, you can do the original math and fly the .1 to .5 kts slower so you don't overspeed the flaps. ;) Tim On 5/4/2021 8:44 AM, Phil Perry wrote: > The original source was found in Section 5 of Vans plans. In my book > it's on page 21. (SN 40750 - I heard it may have been omitted in > later versions). > > They provide speeds for the trail position, then half, then full. > > I plotted the trail position (0 by my reference), flaps half (15) > and flaps full (30) on a chart and determined where 10 and 20 would > fall on the curve. > > So on my airplane I have -3 (reflex), 0 (Trail w/ airspeed > limitation), 10 (w/ airspeed limitation), 20 (w/airspeed > limitation), and 30 (w/airspeed limitation). > > I just did the math using their data to give me a few more flap > choices along the way. > > Phil > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 4, 2021, at 6:56 AM, Alan Mekler MD wrote: >> >> My POH say 104 kts for 1st and 2 nd notch >> 87 kts for full >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On May 4, 2021, at 7:59 AM, Leo Kno wrote: >>> >>> >>> I am not sure of the origin of the speeds you note, but have a few >>> thoughts >>> >>> Trail to 3 degrees reflex are allowed at any speed within the envelope. >>> I tend to use first notch at anything under 100 knots. Good round >>> number and easy to remember. >>> I never use max. (30+ degrees based on your specific set up) unless >>> high on short final, need/want the extra margin to stall speed, or >>> need/want the extra drag to shorten the landing roll. >>> >>> I use all settings during pattern work in order to remain familiar >>> with the handling of the plane with each. >>> >>> Leo >>> >>> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 6:36 AM Bill Boyd >> > wrote: >>> >>> Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and >>> flew around in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they >>> were in reflex, with the result that as I entered the pattern I >>> put out what I thoughtwas trail flaps but was actually 15 >>> degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS. I got an immediate overspeed >>> warning from the avionics but it took several seconds of >>> switch-fiddling to stop the downward movement and get them up >>> again. Pulling back on the throttleand back on the stick in a >>> flap overspeed condition is notan instinctive response for me. >>> Regardless, the airframe withstood the transgression without >>> visibly apparent damage. Just a data point and a cautionary >>> reminder. >>> >>> -Bill Boyd >>> N130YD - 45 hours >>> >>> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier >> > wrote: >>> >>> > >>> >>> I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating >>> around on several RV-10 POHs and in another place or two. >>> The list seems to be: >>> 1st notch, trail. 122 kias max >>> 2nd notch, 18 deg. 96 kias max >>> 3rd notch, 33 deg. 87 kias max >>> >>> I talked to the technical desk at Vans and they denied any >>> knowledge of any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount. >>> >>> Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfes and >>> how the numbers were arrived at? >>> >>> Regards, >>> Nick Gautier >>> N363TG >>> SN 40363 >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> ========== >>> -List" rel="noreferrer" >>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>> >>> ========== >>> FORUMS - >>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>> >>> ========== >>> WIKI - >>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >>> >>> ========== >>> b Site - >>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>> rel="noreferrer" >>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> >>> ========== >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:42 AM PST US From: David Saylor Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 flap extend speeds That reference is still there as of 2017. It's in the plans that Van's sends out on a memory stick. For me the pdf version of the plans is a game changer. SO much easier to manage. I carry it in the plane. --Dave Saylor SN 0394, 2025 hrs On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 6:49 AM Phil Perry wrote: > The original source was found in Section 5 of Vans plans. In my book > it's on page 21. (SN 40750 - I heard it may have been omitted in later > versions). > > They provide speeds for the trail position, then half, then full. > > I plotted the trail position (0=C2=B0 by my reference), flaps half (15=C2 =B0) and > flaps full (30=C2=B0) on a chart and determined where 10=C2=B0 and 20=C2 =B0 would fall on > the curve. > > So on my airplane I have -3=C2=B0 (reflex), 0=C2=B0 (Trail w/ airspeed l imitation), > 10=C2=B0 (w/ airspeed limitation), 20=C2=B0 (w/airspeed limitation), and 30=C2=B0 > (w/airspeed limitation). > > I just did the math using their data to give me a few more flap choices > along the way. > > Phil > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 4, 2021, at 6:56 AM, Alan Mekler MD wrote: > > =EF=BBMy POH say 104 kts for 1st and 2 nd notch > 87 kts for full > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 4, 2021, at 7:59 AM, Leo Kno wrote: > > =EF=BB > I am not sure of the origin of the speeds you note, but have a few > thoughts > > Trail to 3 degrees reflex are allowed at any speed within the envelope. > I tend to use first notch at anything under 100 knots. Good round number > and easy to remember. > I never use max. (30+ degrees based on your specific set up) unless high > on short final, need/want the extra margin to stall speed, or need/want t he > extra drag to shorten the landing roll. > > I use all settings during pattern work in order to remain familiar with > the handling of the plane with each. > > Leo > > On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 6:36 AM Bill Boyd wrote: > >> Just this past weekend I forgot to raise the flaps after T/O and flew >> around in cruise with them at zero degrees thinking they were in reflex, >> with the result that as I entered the pattern I put out what I thought w as >> trail flaps but was actually 15 degrees of flaps at 132 KIAS. I got an >> immediate overspeed warning from the avionics but it took several second s >> of switch-fiddling to stop the downward movement and get them up again. >> Pulling back on the throttle and back on the stick in a flap overspeed >> condition is not an instinctive response for me. Regardless, the airfra me >> withstood the transgression without visibly apparent damage. Just a dat a >> point and a cautionary reminder. >> >> -Bill Boyd >> N130YD - 45 hours >> >> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ngautier wrote: >> >>> >>> I have seen a set of flap extend speeds (Vfe) floating around on severa l >>> RV-10 POHs and in another place or two. The list seems to be: >>> 1st notch, trail. 122 kias max >>> 2nd notch, 18 deg. 96 kias max >>> 3rd notch, 33 deg. 87 kias max >>> >>> I talked to the technical desk at Van=99s and they denied any kno wledge of >>> any Vfe except 87 kias for any extension amount. >>> >>> Can anyone tell me the origin of the more liberal Vfe=99s and how the >>> numbers were arrived at? >>> >>> Regards, >>> Nick Gautier >>> N363TG >>> SN 40363 >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> ========== >>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>> ========== >>> FORUMS - >>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> WIKI - >>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> b Site - >>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion >>> ========== >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 flap extend speeds From: Tim Olson That's what I like to see. A man with solid data. ;) Thanks Phil! For those who are in probably the majority, who use KTS, that's: 122 kts 0 degrees 96 kts 18 Degrees 87 kts 33 Degrees These are rounded UP (less conservative) by less than 1 kt. Maybe if you have the ultra high precision airspeed indicator with 3 decimal point resolution, and are a zen master RV-10 pilot, you can do the original math and fly the .1 to .5 kts slower so you don't over speed the flaps. Tim On 5/4/2021 8:44 AM, Phil Perry wrote: > The original source was found in Section 5 of Vans plans. In my book > it's on page 21. (SN 40750 - I heard it may have been omitted in > later versions). > > They provide speeds for the trail position, then half, then full. > > I plotted the trail position (0 by my reference), flaps half (15) > and flaps full (30) on a chart and determined where 10 and 20 would > fall on the curve. > > So on my airplane I have -3 (reflex), 0 (Trail w/ airspeed > limitation), 10 (w/ airspeed limitation), 20 (w/airspeed > limitation), and 30 (w/airspeed limitation). > > I just did the math using their data to give me a few more flap > choices along the way. > > Phil > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:06 AM PST US From: Bob Leffler Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 flap extend speeds MTIyIGt0cyAgIDAgZGVncmVlcz8NCg0KDQoNClNob3VsZG7igJl0IHRoYXQgYmUgVm5lPyAgIDEy Mmt0cyBpbXBsaWVzIGl04oCZcyBnb2luZyB0byBiZSByYWluaW5nIGZsYXBzIGFsbCBvdmVyIHRo ZSBwbGFjZS4gICBTaW5jZSBtb3N0IG9mIHVzIGNydWlzZSBhdCBhIG11Y2ggaGlnaGVyIGFpcnNw ZWVkLiAgOl4pDQoNCg0KRnJvbTogb3duZXItcnYxMC1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29t IDxvd25lci1ydjEwLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20+IE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBUaW0g T2xzb24NClNlbnQ6IFR1ZXNkYXksIE1heSA0LCAyMDIxIDEwOjE2IEFNDQpUbzogcnYxMC1saXN0 QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBSVjEwLUxpc3Q6IFJWLTEwIGZsYXAgZXh0ZW5k IHNwZWVkcw0KDQoNClRoYXQncyB3aGF0IEkgbGlrZSB0byBzZWUuICBBIG1hbiB3aXRoIHNvbGlk IGRhdGEuIDspICBUaGFua3MgUGhpbCENCg0KDQoNCkZvciB0aG9zZSB3aG8gYXJlIGluIHByb2Jh Ymx5IHRoZSBtYWpvcml0eSwgd2hvIHVzZSBLVFMsIHRoYXQnczoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoxMjIga3Rz ICAgMCBkZWdyZWVzDQoNCjk2IGt0cyAgMTggRGVncmVlcw0KDQo4NyBrdHMgIDMzIERlZ3JlZXMN Cg0KDQoNClRoZXNlIGFyZSByb3VuZGVkIFVQIChsZXNzIGNvbnNlcnZhdGl2ZSkgYnkgbGVzcyB0 aGFuIDEga3QuICBNYXliZSBpZiB5b3UNCg0KaGF2ZSB0aGUgdWx0cmEgaGlnaCBwcmVjaXNpb24g YWlyc3BlZWQgaW5kaWNhdG9yIHdpdGggMyBkZWNpbWFsIHBvaW50DQoNCnJlc29sdXRpb24sIGFu ZCBhcmUgYSB6ZW4gbWFzdGVyIFJWLTEwIHBpbG90LCB5b3UgY2FuIGRvIHRoZSBvcmlnaW5hbCBt YXRoIGFuZCBmbHkNCg0KdGhlIC4xIHRvIC41IGt0cyBzbG93ZXIgc28geW91IGRvbid0IG92ZXIg c3BlZWQgdGhlIGZsYXBzLg0KDQoNCg0KVGltDQoNCk9uIDUvNC8yMDIxIDg6NDQgQU0sIFBoaWwg UGVycnkgd3JvdGU6DQpUaGUgb3JpZ2luYWwgc291cmNlIHdhcyBmb3VuZCBpbiBTZWN0aW9uIDUg b2YgVmFucyBwbGFucy4gICBJbiBteSBib29rIGl0J3Mgb24gcGFnZSAyMS4gIChTTiA0MDc1MCAt IEkgaGVhcmQgaXQgbWF5IGhhdmUgYmVlbiBvbWl0dGVkIGluIGxhdGVyIHZlcnNpb25zKS4NCg0K VGhleSBwcm92aWRlIHNwZWVkcyBmb3IgdGhlIHRyYWlsIHBvc2l0aW9uLCB0aGVuIGhhbGYsIHRo ZW4gZnVsbC4NCg0KSSBwbG90dGVkIHRoZSB0cmFpbCBwb3NpdGlvbiAoMMKwIGJ5IG15IHJlZmVy ZW5jZSksIGZsYXBzIGhhbGYgKDE1wrApIGFuZCBmbGFwcyBmdWxsICgzMMKwKSBvbiBhIGNoYXJ0 IGFuZCBkZXRlcm1pbmVkIHdoZXJlIDEwwrAgYW5kIDIwwrAgd291bGQgZmFsbCBvbiB0aGUgY3Vy dmUuDQoNClNvIG9uIG15IGFpcnBsYW5lIEkgaGF2ZSAtM8KwIChyZWZsZXgpLCAgMMKwIChUcmFp bCB3LyBhaXJzcGVlZCBsaW1pdGF0aW9uKSwgMTDCsCAody8gYWlyc3BlZWQgbGltaXRhdGlvbiks IDIwwrAgKHcvYWlyc3BlZWQgbGltaXRhdGlvbiksIGFuZCAzMMKwICh3L2FpcnNwZWVkIGxpbWl0 YXRpb24pLg0KDQpJIGp1c3QgZGlkIHRoZSBtYXRoIHVzaW5nIHRoZWlyIGRhdGEgdG8gZ2l2ZSBt ZSBhIGZldyBtb3JlIGZsYXAgY2hvaWNlcyBhbG9uZyB0aGUgd2F5Lg0KDQpQaGlsDQoNCg0K ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:53 AM PST US From: David Saylor Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 flap extend speeds > > Phil nailed it. It's still in the pdf plans that Van's sends out on a > memory stick. I got one earlier this year. > --Dave Saylor SN0394 2025 hrs ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:12 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds From: "Bob Turner" As several posts have said, 122/96/87 kias are the posted speeds in the documentation of older -10s. However, not too long ago Vans removed the restriction on in trail (0 deg). The limiting factor was the flap extension arm, and they decided it was strong enough up to Vne. Ive done just a bit of experimentation with cruising with the flaps in trail, at higher altitudes. With a modest load (400 lbs in cabin, 3/4 fuel) at a density altitude of 17,000, going back and forth between full up and in-trail, I thought in-trail might have been a knot or two faster. There was just enough turbulence that I couldnt say for sure. I spoke with Steve, the wing designer, and he confirmed that high enough and heavy enough, you could expect in-trail to work better. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501696#501696 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:07 PM PST US From: Bobby Rocco Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds How can I unsubscribe from the email list? Thanks Bobby > On May 4, 2021, at 11:15 AM, Bob Turner wrote: > > > As several posts have said, 122/96/87 kias are the posted speeds in the documentation of older -10?Ts. However, not too long ago Vans removed the restriction on ?~in trail?T (0 deg). The limiting factor was the flap extension arm, and they decided it was strong enough up to Vne. > > I?Tve done just a bit of experimentation with cruising with the flaps in trail, at higher altitudes. With a modest load (400 lbs in cabin, 3/4 fuel) at a density altitude of 17,000?T, going back and forth between full up and in-trail, I thought in-trail might have been a knot or two faster. There was just enough turbulence that I couldn?Tt say for sure. I spoke with Steve, the wing designer, and he confirmed that high enough and heavy enough, you could expect in-trail to work better. > > -------- > Bob Turner > RV-10 QB > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501696#501696 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:16 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 flap extend speeds From: Charlie England On 5/4/2021 4:20 PM, Bobby Rocco wrote: > > How can I unsubscribe from the email list? > > Thanks > Bobby Instructions on the bottom of the email: > >> On May 4, 2021, at 11:15 AM, Bob Turner wrote: >> >> >> As several posts have said, 122/96/87 kias are the posted speeds in the documentation of older -10?Ts. However, not too long ago Vans removed the restriction on ?~in trail?T (0 deg). The limiting factor was the flap extension arm, and they decided it was strong enough up to Vne. >> >> I?Tve done just a bit of experimentation with cruising with the flaps in trail, at higher altitudes. With a modest load (400 lbs in cabin, 3/4 fuel) at a density altitude of 17,000?T, going back and forth between full up and in-trail, I thought in-trail might have been a knot or two faster. There was just enough turbulence that I couldn?Tt say for sure. I spoke with Steve, the wing designer, and he confirmed that high enough and heavy enough, you could expect in-trail to work better. >> >> -------- >> Bob Turner >> RV-10 QB >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501696#501696 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.