Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:21 AM - Re: Cost of painting an RV-10 (Leo Kno)
2. 08:55 AM - Thanks for the paint advice (Thomas Gautier)
3. 10:47 AM - Re: Thanks for the paint advice (Lew Gallagher)
4. 11:24 AM - Re: Thanks for the paint advice (Bill Boyd)
5. 01:02 PM - Re: Thanks for the paint advice (Thomas Mason)
6. 05:31 PM - Re: Thanks for the paint advice (Charlie England)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Cost of painting an RV-10 |
$11K is cheap by any measure I am aware of.
I spent $5k just on paint for primer and white base coat. Add to that all
of the prep time and labor to get it on the plane and that is a very low
price. I am not aware of any RV10 paint job under 15K.
On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 1:18 PM Thomas Gautier <ngautier@earthlink.net>
wrote:
>
> After 200 some hours flying I have decided it's time to paint my RV-10. I
> am based at Cable Airport, Upland, CA (KCCB) and there is a paint shop on
> the field. I asked them for a painting estimate and got back a price that
> seems kind of steep to me. I=99d like to hear from the group about
what you
> know about paint pricing. I was hoping that the KCCB estimate would come
in
> at a reasonable cost so I could just go for the on-field shop without
> getting other bids. I may have to get more bids now but I need to
> reassemble the airplane after the condition inspection before I can show
it
> off to other shops.
>
> Here is the situation:
> The airplane is unpainted except for the fin and rudder and the fiberglas
s.
> The airplane needs a thorough degreasing on the bottom and cleaning
> outside.
> I have filled and primed the fiberglass but there is still some work to
> get a really professional look.
> I=99m want a simple, one color paint job (off white) with a stripe
and
> contrasting color on the wing tips, H-stab tips, fin tip and wheel pants.
> I have some overspray on the rear windows from my priming activities that
> needs removing.
>
> Here is the estimate:
> Base price: $9800 (for Imron paint)
> Fiberglass labor: $1690
> Credit for reassembly by owner: $500
>
> Total $10,990
>
> Seems kind of pricy for what I want. What do you guys know about current
> paint job prices, especially in Southern California. Having the airplane
> painted on my field is attractive, disassembly and reassembly wise, but I
> would be willing to pick a shop 500 to 800 miles away for a good price.
>
> Regards,
> Nick Gautier
> N363TG
> sn 40363
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>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Thanks for the paint advice |
Wow, guys! Thanks for all the replies.
You are unanimous that I should do some due diligence and go for this. I really
appreciate advice. I guess I had painting prices from 7 years ago stuck in my
head. I also realize that Imron is quite good paint and probably ups the cost.
Ill let you know what happens and Ill send pix.
Nick
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the paint advice |
BTW, I loved Imron ... until last summer, when I didn't.=C2- I'm in South
Carolina.=C2-=C2-It would go on like glass like usual, then when I cam
e back two hours later to check on it, it would have solvent pop or orange
peel.=C2- I tried every trick I new with the same results.=C2- I finall
y did a Google search and found an article by a paint chemist who flatly st
ated that if the sum of the air temperature plus the humidity is greater th
an 180 YOU CANNOT PAINT !!=C2-=C2-I don't have a climate controlled boo
th.=C2-=C2-That was the problem and I confirmed it by being in the boot
h, ready to paint as the sun came up.=C2- There was a window where the ea
rly sun burned off the dew, but the temperature wasn't up yet.=C2- And th
e paint turned out fine.
Since then I've found that the cheaper version of Imron, called Nason Full-
Thane, goes on just as easy, isn't nearly as sensitive to heat and humidity
, and so far holds up the same as Imron.=C2- As I understand it, Dupont s
old the Imron name and formula to Axion and Axion also makes the Nason.=C2
- So your paint store that has Imron would also have the Nason.=C2- AND
the brand name hardener is more than twice as expensive as generic hardene
r - ask for HighTeck, super wet look, 7519 hardener.=C2- The ratio is 8:2
:1 (8 paint to 2 thinner to 1 hardener)=C2- The paint store and I recomme
nd 8:1:1=C2- otherwise you have to put a VERY light coat on first and let
it get tacky before you put on final coats or it will run on rivets, botto
m of vertical edges, etc.
Maybe more than you wanted to know.
Later, - Lew
On 7/12/2021 11:56:57 AM, Thomas Gautier <ngautier@earthlink.net> wrote:
Wow, guys! Thanks for all the replies.
You are unanimous that I should do some due diligence and go for this. I re
ally appreciate advice. I guess I had painting prices from 7 years ago stuc
k in my head. I also realize that Imron is quite good paint and probably up
s the cost.
I=99ll let you know what happens and I=99ll send pix.
Nick
.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the paint advice |
Anybody have comparables on top-tier vinyl vs paint? It's time to get my
10 painted as well, and the owner of the local sign printing and vinyl wrap
shop was in the office today and we started talking about them branching
out from cars to planes...
On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 1:51 PM Lew Gallagher <lewgall@charter.net> wrote:
> BTW, I loved Imron ... until last summer, when I didn't. I'm in South
> Carolina. It would go on like glass like usual, then when I came back
> two hours later to check on it, it would have solvent pop or orange peel.
> I tried every trick I new with the same results. I finally did a Google
> search and found an article by a paint chemist who flatly stated that if
> the sum of the air temperature plus the humidity is greater than 180 YOU
> CANNOT PAINT !! I don't have a climate controlled booth. That was the
> problem and I confirmed it by being in the booth, ready to paint as the s
un
> came up. There was a window where the early sun burned off the dew, but
> the temperature wasn't up yet. And the paint turned out fine.
>
> Since then I've found that the cheaper version of Imron, called Nason
> Full-Thane, goes on just as easy, isn't nearly as sensitive to heat and
> humidity, and so far holds up the same as Imron. As I understand it,
> Dupont sold the Imron name and formula to Axion and Axion also makes the
> Nason. So your paint store that has Imron would also have the Nason. AN
D
> the brand name hardener is more than twice as expensive as generic harden
er
> - ask for HighTeck, super wet look, 7519 hardener. The ratio is 8:2:1 (8
> paint to 2 thinner to 1 hardener) The paint store and I recommend 8:1:1
> otherwise you have to put a VERY light coat on first and let it get tacky
> before you put on final coats or it will run on rivets, bottom of vertica
l
> edges, etc.
>
> Maybe more than you wanted to know.
>
> Later, - Lew
>
> On 7/12/2021 11:56:57 AM, Thomas Gautier <ngautier@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Wow, guys! Thanks for all the replies.
>
> You are unanimous that I should do some due diligence and go for this. I
> really appreciate advice. I guess I had painting prices from 7 years ago
> stuck in my head. I also realize that Imron is quite good paint and
> probably ups the cost.
>
> I=99ll let you know what happens and I=99ll send pix.
>
> Nick
> .
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the paint advice |
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the paint advice |
On 7/12/2021 3:01 PM, Thomas Mason wrote:
>
> I have been presuming that I will wrap my -10 myself when its done.
> Ive gone so far as to buy samples on EBay. But Im not there yet.
>
> The biggest advantages are cost and toxicity (none, unless you eat
> it). The cost of vinyl materials should be under $3k. For example, a
> 5x75 roll of Avery Supreme Gloss White is about $750.
>
> Prep will be similar to painting because it is the same if it will
> show under paint, it will show under vinyl. Installation should be
> less than paint and takes perhaps three days for a small plane at
> least for an experienced installer.
>
> The biggest drawback is durability although none of the specs that
> Ive seen take into account the fact that most RV-10s spend the bulk
> of their lives inside a dark hangar. Vinyl on non-vertical surfaces
> has substantially less durability than vertical, and the geo zone you
> live in has a big effect, as well. One strategy is to paint the top of
> the plane and use vinyl vertically and for graphics. Oil and gas can
> be harmful, although some have reported good durability around their
> fuel caps.
>
> Check out Avery Dennisons Supreme Film or 3Ms 1080 Wrap Film
> websites. They have tech sheets for the different kinds of vinyl they
> offer. Avery also offers a more rugged vinyl for off-road, marine,
> etc., but planes generally have been getting wrapped in automobile
> film. The few people Ive run into whove wrapped planes have either
> put it over existing paint or bare aluminum on kit planes. Averys
> SWF900 can be used directly on aluminum, per their spec sheet.
>
> YouTube has tons of wrapping videos, including a bunch by CK Wraps
> (cars). There are also videos of an RV-9A, a Panther, a Zenith, etc.,
> getting wrapped.
>
> BTW, theres a Paint vs Wrap thread on this forum from 2017. The
> consensus was that vinyl doesnt compare well to paint; however, a
> good wrap job is indistinguishable from paint. In fact, vinyl is used
> all the time to change the color of exotic and supercars instead of
> repainting. Its also used more than I would have suspected on
> commercial aircraft.
>
> The fairer comparison would be my nonprofessional wrap job to my
> nonprofessional paint job. Either one will probably be at least a 15 job!
>
Hi Bill,
There's a redneck or two lurking on the big boy list, from down at
Slobovia Outernational.
I've been researching vinyl, too. My research aligns with Thomas', with
a couple of additions, and some questions for Thomas.
3M now sells '2080', which *according to their phone rep*, is a little
easier to stretch around corners, and it comes with a clear protective
covering so you can do all the required stretching/fitting/squeegee work
with the protective film on the actual wrap, then peel it off to leave a
perfect surface. When I started looking a couple of months ago, the
color selection wasn't as good yet, but I got the impression from their
phone rep that 2080 would eventually replace 1080.
I started a thread over on HBA asking for others' experiences, and got
quite a bit of useful info. Might be worth a read.
https://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/threads/full-vinyl-wrap.35684/
Like Thomas said, others have had some durability issues in the high
wear areas, like wheel pants and perhaps the cowl (see the posts & pics
in the HBA thread). I've toyed with the idea of wrapping everything
that's 'flat wrapped' (almost all the airplane on a -7; not so much on a
-10 with the 'glass top), and going to a local paint supply to get
color-matched urethane for the tough-to-wrap and/or high wear areas,
like pants, wing/empennage tips, and maybe the cowl. Cowl is a dilemma
for me; might be the hardest thing to paint, and the hardest thing to wrap.
I was pretty well set on using vinyl on my -7 because of money; with a
rotary engine on it, its sale value will never be much more than the
price of a pro paint job. Then I started hearing about the relatively
high quality of less expensive 2 & 3 part, non-clearcoat automotive
paints (like the Nason mentioned earlier, Summit, etc). The money for
materials starts to look pretty close to quality vinyl. Of course, I'd
still be stuck with running the spray gun, and I'm pretty sure my shelf
paper skills are more highly developed than my painting skills. ;-)
Thomas,
Do you have a part # for the Avery heavy duty products?
Thanks,
Charlie
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