Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:52 AM - Re: Chelton replacements (Robert Jones)
2. 11:43 AM - Re: Chelton replacements (Bob's Gmail)
3. 02:09 PM - Re: Chelton replacements (Martin Renschler)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Chelton replacements |
The first link looks like it is the software update to version 6.72. I follo
wed the directions and hopefully it will update ok when I put it in my 650. T
he second link is for their PC trainer, not the actual GTN650. The third is f
or the user manual, not the install manual. I built and wired my panel mysel
f. Garmin did not provide an installation manual with the GTN650. I even ca
lled Garmin and they made it clear they were not going to help me get an ins
tallation manual as I don=99t have a licensed avionics shop. I am stil
l not aware of anywhere Garmin provides an installation manual for anyone wh
o buys a GTN650 unless you are a licensed avionics shop. I obtained one thr
ough a process that Garmin would likely not approve of. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO C
ORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG. I am still learning about about my equipment and g
etting support for it down the road. I can only reference my own experience.
Anyone doing business as a licensed shop is going to have a very different e
xperience.
Robert Jones
> On Jan 18, 2022, at 5:38 PM, SteinB <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Sure: https://fly.garmin.com/fly-garmin/support/pricing. Pick "G3X" and y
ou'll note the $49 option I mentioned, then the $149 option which is $100 in
crementally more for the charts/plates/rtc as I previously noted. Google is
your friend =F0=9F=99=82
>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:30 PM Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wr
ote:
>> Can your googlefoo find that $99 annual all charts/terrain/IFR subscripti
on?
>>
>>> On 1/18/2022 12:44 PM, Jonathan Beasley wrote:
>>> LMGTFY about 30 seconds of googling
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> GTN 6XX/7XX - Software Loader Image 006-B1367-3K - Service Bulletin 2143
software version 6.72 https://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?
id=12531
>>> add-ons
>>>
>>> https://www8.garmin.com/support/collection.jsp?product=010-00813-50
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> manual
>>>
>>> https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01004-03_M.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send me the link for the software updates for my GTN650. I spent an hour
on the Garmin site and all I could find was a list of the software updates a
vailable and a list of the improvements made with each revision. I could no
t find anywhere to get the actual updates. I put an ECHO ADSB unit in for a f
riend recently. He had a Garmin 530W in his aircraft. It still had the 3.0 s
oftware in it and it needed to be upgraded to the 5.0 and 5.4 software to ha
rvest the GPS position from it for the ECHO. It cost $170.00 to do that from
the Garmin dealer on the field. I could have easily done it myself if I had
access to the software and the goofy memory cards that Garmin used then.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I only subscribe to the Navigation database for my GTN650 for $299 a yea
r. To get base map and terrain updates it would be $499, another $200. Dyno
n gives me those for free. For another $169 a year I can get FlyQ with all t
he instrument procedures charts and the low and high altitude charts and the
ability to display them on my Dynon EFIS with geo referencing. The FlyQ ch
arts can now be updated using the Dynon WI-FI so I can just transfer the upd
ates from my IPad to the USB sticks via WI-FI.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Since I have not looked into this for a couple of years, show me how muc
h I would have to pay for base maps, terrain and the IFR navigation data for
Garmin if I had a complete Garmin panel. I could care less about =9C
Safe Taxi=9D as the equivalent is provided by FlyQ with the geo refere
nced taxi charts on my Dynon EFIS. I flew corporate jets professionally for
a few decades into 5,000-6000 different airports. I never had any trouble k
nowing where I was on the airport, however I can see how it would be useful f
or those that are not accustomed to throughly briefing themselves on the air
port taxi chart before they start the decent.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I bought my GTN 650 from a Garmin dealer. It did not come with an instal
lation manual. Perhaps you could point me to where I could download one from
Garmin=99s website.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have not had any experience with the Experimental side of Garmin. Do t
hey include installation manuals for everything they sell now? Will they ac
tually answer the phone and emails? Dynon has been doing that for a long ti
me. Have they started to provide wiring diagrams to interface with everyone e
lse=99s devices? Dynon was doing that when I put my panel in 2 1/2 ye
ars ago.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I won=99t pretend that I am current on everything in avionics for l
ight aircraft. However my experience with Garmin customer service has not b
een very good. My experience with Garmin is that they try to lock you out of
anything that Garmin didn=99t make. I suppose a lot of manufacturers d
o that to some degree, but Garmin seems to work the hardest at that. If they
are getting better I suspect it is because Dynon started getting certified f
or a lot of the older aircraft and started eating their lunch. I like seeing
Garmin getting kicked where it hurts because it will force them to get bett
er. There is nothing like getting thrashed a bit by a strong competitor to g
et a company to start serving their customers better. Fierce competition ten
ds to improve customer service and make for competitive pricing from all the
manufacturers. I don=99t want to see Garmin go away. I would like to s
ee them get better than they were when I bought my GTN 650.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Robert Jones
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 18, 2022, at 8:31 AM, SteinB <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> =EF=BB
>>>
>>> This is an oft repeated wives tail not based in any reality other than m
arketing rhetoric or personal bias. We sell a lot of both brands, we love bo
th brands, but the whole "update cost" argument is dubious, because they are
almost identical. But for the base map VFR charts which Dynon gives out for
free (Garmin charges $49 per year), the plates/charts/sectionals, etc.. are
the same additional $99 per year from either company.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The updates for your GTN are actually a good deal CHEAPER when you have G
armin EFISes then when you pair them with other brands (because of bundling)
, so in that case you're actually upside down on costs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Avidyne? They also have the same update costs regardless of what you do w
ith an EFIS, so that's a push/wash.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Install manuals? You can get any install manual you want.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Flat rate repairs? They are almost identical in their amount between bra
nds for similar devices (yep, Dynon charges flat rate repair fees out of war
ranty just like everyone else).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Support? Apparently (and obviously) you haven't dealt directly with the e
xperimental side of the Garmin team - where they will send you exchanges and
/or repairs directly without needing to go through a dealer AT ALL. Softwar
e updates for the devices (YES, even your GTN) are available for free, direc
tly on the Garmin website where you yourself can go download them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's fine to be ignorant of the facts, but it's dubious to make up your a
lternate reality own based on personal bias or utter falsehoods.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We'll happily sell you either brand, we love both brands, but this whole
"one is superior to the other" based on your comments below is just incorre
ct, not factual and therefore not credible.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Stein
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 9:55 PM Robert Jones <rjones560xl@gmail.com> wro
te:
>>>
>>>
>>> I have a 3 screen Dynon panel with a Garmin GTN650 for IFR navigation an
d approaches. I personally would avoid a complete Garmin panel because of th
e cost of updates. I subscribe to the NAV updates for my 650 because everyth
ing else is free on the Dynon EFIS. Dynon got in bed with Seattle Avionics (
SkyQ) to display low or high altitude charts on the Dynon EFIS as well as th
e approach plates. This works well and it isn=99t that expensive.
>>> If you=99re looking at a 100% Garmin panel, look at what the updat
es to keep everything current are for the next 10 years, and that does not i
nclude software updates either. Dynon gives you them free. At Garmin, only t
he dealer can get access to the software updates, even though anyone could m
ake do the updates if they had access to the files. Basically Garmin wants t
o own you forever.
>>>
>>> Dynon will give you tech support. Garmin won=99t. As soon as they a
sk what licensed shop you work for and find out you don=99t work for o
ne the conversation is over. 0 support ever except to call a licensed Garmin
shop and pay they to fix the problem. You don=99t even get an install
ation manual for the product you bought. Only the dealers get those.
>>>
>>> If you are going to hire a Garmin dealer to overhaul your panel and fix e
verything that goes wrong in the future, are fine with the software and NAV d
atabase costs then Garmin is fine. I put my whole panel in myself. If you a
re planning on doing it yourself, Garmin isn=99t fine. Please understa
nd that I am not badmouthing the Garmin products. They are fine. I just hate
the way they treat their customers.
>>>
>>> Robert Jones
>>>
>>> > On Jan 17, 2022, at 3:01 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrot
e:
>>> >
ing.com>
>>> >
>>> > There are 3 main ones. Grt Dynon (as well as it's subsidiary AFS) and G
armin. Depends on your budget and mission.
>>> >
>>> >> On 1/17/2022 3:42 PM, dlm wrote:
>>> >> My DU1s and Crossbow AHRS are no longer supported. I must think of so
me future replacement for them. What EFISs are being used in the newer 10s t
hese days?
>>> >> David McNeill
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?RV10-List
>>> ==========
>>> FORUMS -
>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> WIKI -
>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> b Site -
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> ="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution
>>> ==========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Virus-free. www.avast.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Chelton replacements |
I used to have the link for the GTN install manual but can=99t find it
at the moment. You can always email G3Xpert@garmin.com . That gets you to
the Garmin experimental folks and they will get you what you need (includin
g the GTN installation manual).
Bob
> On Jan 19, 2022, at 12:57 PM, Robert Jones <rjones560xl@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BBThe first link looks like it is the software update to version 6.
72. I followed the directions and hopefully it will update ok when I put it i
n my 650. The second link is for their PC trainer, not the actual GTN650. Th
e third is for the user manual, not the install manual. I built and wired my
panel myself. Garmin did not provide an installation manual with the GTN65
0. I even called Garmin and they made it clear they were not going to help m
e get an installation manual as I don=99t have a licensed avionics sho
p. I am still not aware of anywhere Garmin provides an installation manual f
or anyone who buys a GTN650 unless you are a licensed avionics shop. I obta
ined one through a process that Garmin would likely not approve of. PLEASE FE
EL FREE TO CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG. I am still learning about about my equ
ipment and getting support for it down the road. I can only reference my own
experience. Anyone doing business as a licensed shop is going to have a ver
y different experience.
>
> Robert Jones
>
>>> On Jan 18, 2022, at 5:38 PM, SteinB <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
>>>
>> =EF=BB
>> Sure: https://fly.garmin.com/fly-garmin/support/pricing. Pick "G3X" and y
ou'll note the $49 option I mentioned, then the $149 option which is $100 in
crementally more for the charts/plates/rtc as I previously noted. Google is
your friend =F0=9F=99=82
>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:30 PM Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> w
rote:
>>> Can your googlefoo find that $99 annual all charts/terrain/IFR subscript
ion?
>>>
>>>> On 1/18/2022 12:44 PM, Jonathan Beasley wrote:
>>>> LMGTFY about 30 seconds of googling
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> GTN 6XX/7XX - Software Loader Image 006-B1367-3K - Service Bulletin 214
3 software version 6.72 https://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp
?id=12531
>>>> add-ons
>>>>
>>>> https://www8.garmin.com/support/collection.jsp?product=010-00813-50
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> manual
>>>>
>>>> https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01004-03_M.pdf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send me the link for the software updates for my GTN650. I spent an hou
r on the Garmin site and all I could find was a list of the software updates
available and a list of the improvements made with each revision. I could n
ot find anywhere to get the actual updates. I put an ECHO ADSB unit in for a
friend recently. He had a Garmin 530W in his aircraft. It still had the 3.0
software in it and it needed to be upgraded to the 5.0 and 5.4 software to h
arvest the GPS position from it for the ECHO. It cost $170.00 to do that fro
m the Garmin dealer on the field. I could have easily done it myself if I ha
d access to the software and the goofy memory cards that Garmin used then.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I only subscribe to the Navigation database for my GTN650 for $299 a ye
ar. To get base map and terrain updates it would be $499, another $200. Dyn
on gives me those for free. For another $169 a year I can get FlyQ with all
the instrument procedures charts and the low and high altitude charts and t
he ability to display them on my Dynon EFIS with geo referencing. The FlyQ c
harts can now be updated using the Dynon WI-FI so I can just transfer the up
dates from my IPad to the USB sticks via WI-FI.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Since I have not looked into this for a couple of years, show me how mu
ch I would have to pay for base maps, terrain and the IFR navigation data fo
r Garmin if I had a complete Garmin panel. I could care less about =9C
Safe Taxi=9D as the equivalent is provided by FlyQ with the geo refere
nced taxi charts on my Dynon EFIS. I flew corporate jets professionally for
a few decades into 5,000-6000 different airports. I never had any trouble k
nowing where I was on the airport, however I can see how it would be useful f
or those that are not accustomed to throughly briefing themselves on the air
port taxi chart before they start the decent.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I bought my GTN 650 from a Garmin dealer. It did not come with an insta
llation manual. Perhaps you could point me to where I could download one fro
m Garmin=99s website.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have not had any experience with the Experimental side of Garmin. Do t
hey include installation manuals for everything they sell now? Will they ac
tually answer the phone and emails? Dynon has been doing that for a long ti
me. Have they started to provide wiring diagrams to interface with everyone e
lse=99s devices? Dynon was doing that when I put my panel in 2 1/2 ye
ars ago.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I won=99t pretend that I am current on everything in avionics for
light aircraft. However my experience with Garmin customer service has not
been very good. My experience with Garmin is that they try to lock you out o
f anything that Garmin didn=99t make. I suppose a lot of manufacturers
do that to some degree, but Garmin seems to work the hardest at that. If th
ey are getting better I suspect it is because Dynon started getting certifie
d for a lot of the older aircraft and started eating their lunch. I like see
ing Garmin getting kicked where it hurts because it will force them to get b
etter. There is nothing like getting thrashed a bit by a strong competitor t
o get a company to start serving their customers better. Fierce competition t
ends to improve customer service and make for competitive pricing from all t
he manufacturers. I don=99t want to see Garmin go away. I would like t
o see them get better than they were when I bought my GTN 650.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Robert Jones
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 18, 2022, at 8:31 AM, SteinB <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> =EF=BB
>>>>
>>>> This is an oft repeated wives tail not based in any reality other than m
arketing rhetoric or personal bias. We sell a lot of both brands, we love bo
th brands, but the whole "update cost" argument is dubious, because they are
almost identical. But for the base map VFR charts which Dynon gives out for
free (Garmin charges $49 per year), the plates/charts/sectionals, etc.. are
the same additional $99 per year from either company.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The updates for your GTN are actually a good deal CHEAPER when you have
Garmin EFISes then when you pair them with other brands (because of bundlin
g), so in that case you're actually upside down on costs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Avidyne? They also have the same update costs regardless of what you do
with an EFIS, so that's a push/wash.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Install manuals? You can get any install manual you want.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Flat rate repairs? They are almost identical in their amount between br
ands for similar devices (yep, Dynon charges flat rate repair fees out of wa
rranty just like everyone else).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Support? Apparently (and obviously) you haven't dealt directly with the
experimental side of the Garmin team - where they will send you exchanges a
nd/or repairs directly without needing to go through a dealer AT ALL. Softw
are updates for the devices (YES, even your GTN) are available for free, dir
ectly on the Garmin website where you yourself can go download them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's fine to be ignorant of the facts, but it's dubious to make up your
alternate reality own based on personal bias or utter falsehoods.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We'll happily sell you either brand, we love both brands, but this whol
e "one is superior to the other" based on your comments below is just incorr
ect, not factual and therefore not credible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Stein
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 9:55 PM Robert Jones <rjones560xl@gmail.com> wr
ote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have a 3 screen Dynon panel with a Garmin GTN650 for IFR navigation a
nd approaches. I personally would avoid a complete Garmin panel because of t
he cost of updates. I subscribe to the NAV updates for my 650 because everyt
hing else is free on the Dynon EFIS. Dynon got in bed with Seattle Avionics (
SkyQ) to display low or high altitude charts on the Dynon EFIS as well as th
e approach plates. This works well and it isn=99t that expensive.
>>>> If you=99re looking at a 100% Garmin panel, look at what the upda
tes to keep everything current are for the next 10 years, and that does not i
nclude software updates either. Dynon gives you them free. At Garmin, only t
he dealer can get access to the software updates, even though anyone could m
ake do the updates if they had access to the files. Basically Garmin wants t
o own you forever.
>>>>
>>>> Dynon will give you tech support. Garmin won=99t. As soon as they
ask what licensed shop you work for and find out you don=99t work for
one the conversation is over. 0 support ever except to call a licensed Garm
in shop and pay they to fix the problem. You don=99t even get an insta
llation manual for the product you bought. Only the dealers get those.
>>>>
>>>> If you are going to hire a Garmin dealer to overhaul your panel and fix
everything that goes wrong in the future, are fine with the software and NA
V database costs then Garmin is fine. I put my whole panel in myself. If yo
u are planning on doing it yourself, Garmin isn=99t fine. Please under
stand that I am not badmouthing the Garmin products. They are fine. I just h
ate the way they treat their customers.
>>>>
>>>> Robert Jones
>>>>
>>>> > On Jan 17, 2022, at 3:01 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wro
te:
>>>> >
ting.com>
>>>> >
>>>> > There are 3 main ones. Grt Dynon (as well as it's subsidiary AFS) and
Garmin. Depends on your budget and mission.
>>>> >
>>>> >> On 1/17/2022 3:42 PM, dlm wrote:
>>>> >> My DU1s and Crossbow AHRS are no longer supported. I must think of s
ome future replacement for them. What EFISs are being used in the newer 10s t
hese days?
>>>> >> David McNeill
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> ==========
>>>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Na
vigator?RV10-List
>>>> ==========
>>>> FORUMS -
>>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>> ==========
>>>> WIKI -
>>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>>>> ==========
>>>> b Site -
>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>> ="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution
>>>> ==========
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com
Message 3
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|
| Subject: | Re: Chelton replacements |
I have three approved devices in my experimental: GTN650Xi, GNX375 and
GMA345. I sent a request for the installation manuals to
g3Xpert@garmin.com <mailto:g3Xpert@garmin.com> and they came back and
wanted the serial numbers and the dealer that I bought from (with whom I
had to sign an experimental agreement form for Garmin devices at order
time). After verification, they promptly sent me all three installation
manuals. Those were also newer than the ones I had found via Google and
there were important pin changes, so don=99t go that route.
/Martin
> On Jan 19, 2022, at 10:52 AM, Robert Jones <rjones560xl@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> The first link looks like it is the software update to version 6.72. I
followed the directions and hopefully it will update ok when I put it in
my 650. The second link is for their PC trainer, not the actual GTN650.
The third is for the user manual, not the install manual. I built and
wired my panel myself. Garmin did not provide an installation manual
with the GTN650. I even called Garmin and they made it clear they were
not going to help me get an installation manual as I don=99t have
a licensed avionics shop. I am still not aware of anywhere Garmin
provides an installation manual for anyone who buys a GTN650 unless you
are a licensed avionics shop. I obtained one through a process that
Garmin would likely not approve of. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME IF I
AM WRONG. I am still learning about about my equipment and getting
support for it down the road. I can only reference my own experience.
Anyone doing business as a licensed shop is going to have a very
different experience.
>
> Robert Jones
>
>> On Jan 18, 2022, at 5:38 PM, SteinB <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
>>
>> =EF=BB
>> Sure: https://fly.garmin.com/fly-garmin/support/pricing
<https://fly.garmin.com/fly-garmin/support/pricing>. Pick "G3X" and
you'll note the $49 option I mentioned, then the $149 option which is
$100 incrementally more for the charts/plates/rtc as I previously noted.
Google is your friend =F0=9F=99=82
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:30 PM Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com
<mailto:ceengland7@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Can your googlefoo find that $99 annual all charts/terrain/IFR
subscription?
>>
>> On 1/18/2022 12:44 PM, Jonathan Beasley wrote:
>>> LMGTFY about 30 seconds of googling
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> GTN 6XX/7XX - Software Loader Image 006-B1367-3K - Service Bulletin
2143 software version 6.72
https://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=12531
<https://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=12531>
>>> add-ons
>>>
>>> https://www8.garmin.com/support/collection.jsp?product=010-00813-50
<https://www8.garmin.com/support/collection.jsp?product=010-00813-50>
>>>
>>>
>>> manual
>>>
>>> https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01004-03_M.pdf
<https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01004-03_M.pdf>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send me the link for the software updates for my GTN650. I spent an
hour on the Garmin site and all I could find was a list of the software
updates available and a list of the improvements made with each
revision. I could not find anywhere to get the actual updates. I put an
ECHO ADSB unit in for a friend recently. He had a Garmin 530W in his
aircraft. It still had the 3.0 software in it and it needed to be
upgraded to the 5.0 and 5.4 software to harvest the GPS position from it
for the ECHO. It cost $170.00 to do that from the Garmin dealer on the
field. I could have easily done it myself if I had access to the
software and the goofy memory cards that Garmin used then.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I only subscribe to the Navigation database for my GTN650 for $299 a
year. To get base map and terrain updates it would be $499, another
$200. Dynon gives me those for free. For another $169 a year I can get
FlyQ with all the instrument procedures charts and the low and high
altitude charts and the ability to display them on my Dynon EFIS with
geo referencing. The FlyQ charts can now be updated using the Dynon
WI-FI so I can just transfer the updates from my IPad to the USB sticks
via WI-FI.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Since I have not looked into this for a couple of years, show me how
much I would have to pay for base maps, terrain and the IFR navigation
data for Garmin if I had a complete Garmin panel. I could care less
about =9CSafe Taxi=9D as the equivalent is provided by FlyQ
with the geo referenced taxi charts on my Dynon EFIS. I flew corporate
jets professionally for a few decades into 5,000-6000 <tel:000-6000>
different airports. I never had any trouble knowing where I was on the
airport, however I can see how it would be useful for those that are not
accustomed to throughly briefing themselves on the airport taxi chart
before they start the decent.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I bought my GTN 650 from a Garmin dealer. It did not come with an
installation manual. Perhaps you could point me to where I could
download one from Garmin=99s website.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have not had any experience with the Experimental side of Garmin.
Do they include installation manuals for everything they sell now? Will
they actually answer the phone and emails? Dynon has been doing that
for a long time. Have they started to provide wiring diagrams to
interface with everyone else=99s devices? Dynon was doing that
when I put my panel in 2 1/2 years ago.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I won=99t pretend that I am current on everything in avionics
for light aircraft. However my experience with Garmin customer service
has not been very good. My experience with Garmin is that they try to
lock you out of anything that Garmin didn=99t make. I suppose a
lot of manufacturers do that to some degree, but Garmin seems to work
the hardest at that. If they are getting better I suspect it is because
Dynon started getting certified for a lot of the older aircraft and
started eating their lunch. I like seeing Garmin getting kicked where it
hurts because it will force them to get better. There is nothing like
getting thrashed a bit by a strong competitor to get a company to start
serving their customers better. Fierce competition tends to improve
customer service and make for competitive pricing from all the
manufacturers. I don=99t want to see Garmin go away. I would like
to see them get better than they were when I bought my GTN 650.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Robert Jones
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 18, 2022, at 8:31 AM, SteinB <stein@steinair.com>
<mailto:stein@steinair.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> =EF=BB
>>>
>>> This is an oft repeated wives tail not based in any reality other
than marketing rhetoric or personal bias. We sell a lot of both brands,
we love both brands, but the whole "update cost" argument is dubious,
because they are almost identical. But for the base map VFR charts which
Dynon gives out for free (Garmin charges $49 per year), the
plates/charts/sectionals, etc.. are the same additional $99 per year
from either company.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The updates for your GTN are actually a good deal CHEAPER when you
have Garmin EFISes then when you pair them with other brands (because of
bundling), so in that case you're actually upside down on costs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Avidyne? They also have the same update costs regardless of what you
do with an EFIS, so that's a push/wash.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Install manuals? You can get any install manual you want.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Flat rate repairs? They are almost identical in their amount between
brands for similar devices (yep, Dynon charges flat rate repair fees out
of warranty just like everyone else).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Support? Apparently (and obviously) you haven't dealt directly with
the experimental side of the Garmin team - where they will send you
exchanges and/or repairs directly without needing to go through a dealer
AT ALL. Software updates for the devices (YES, even your GTN) are
available for free, directly on the Garmin website where you yourself
can go download them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's fine to be ignorant of the facts, but it's dubious to make up
your alternate reality own based on personal bias or utter falsehoods.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We'll happily sell you either brand, we love both brands, but this
whole "one is superior to the other" based on your comments below is
just incorrect, not factual and therefore not credible.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Stein
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 9:55 PM Robert Jones <rjones560xl@gmail.com
<mailto:rjones560xl@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
<mailto:rjones560xl@gmail.com>>
>>>
>>> I have a 3 screen Dynon panel with a Garmin GTN650 for IFR
navigation and approaches. I personally would avoid a complete Garmin
panel because of the cost of updates. I subscribe to the NAV updates for
my 650 because everything else is free on the Dynon EFIS. Dynon got in
bed with Seattle Avionics (SkyQ) to display low or high altitude charts
on the Dynon EFIS as well as the approach plates. This works well and it
isn=99t that expensive.
>>> If you=99re looking at a 100% Garmin panel, look at what the
updates to keep everything current are for the next 10 years, and that
does not include software updates either. Dynon gives you them free. At
Garmin, only the dealer can get access to the software updates, even
though anyone could make do the updates if they had access to the files.
Basically Garmin wants to own you forever.
>>>
>>> Dynon will give you tech support. Garmin won=99t. As soon as
they ask what licensed shop you work for and find out you don=99t
work for one the conversation is over. 0 support ever except to call a
licensed Garmin shop and pay they to fix the problem. You don=99t
even get an installation manual for the product you bought. Only the
dealers get those.
>>>
>>> If you are going to hire a Garmin dealer to overhaul your panel and
fix everything that goes wrong in the future, are fine with the software
and NAV database costs then Garmin is fine. I put my whole panel in
myself. If you are planning on doing it yourself, Garmin isn=99t
fine. Please understand that I am not badmouthing the Garmin products.
They are fine. I just hate the way they treat their customers.
>>>
>>> Robert Jones
>>>
>>> > On Jan 17, 2022, at 3:01 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com
<mailto:kellym@aviating.com>> wrote:
>>> >
<kellym@aviating.com <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>>
>>> >
>>> > There are 3 main ones. Grt Dynon (as well as it's subsidiary AFS)
and Garmin. Depends on your budget and mission.
>>> >
>>> >> On 1/17/2022 3:42 PM, dlm wrote:
>>> >> My DU1s and Crossbow AHRS are no longer supported. I must think
of some future replacement for them. What EFISs are being used in the
newer 10s these days?
>>> >> David McNeill
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> -List" rel="noreferrer"
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>>> b Site -
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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