Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:38 PM - Re: Chelton replacements (Robert Jones)
2. 07:46 PM - Re: Chelton replacements (Robert Jones)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Chelton replacements |
I bootlegged one from a place that I can=99t mention to protect the gu
ilty that gave me one.
Robert Jones
> On Jan 19, 2022, at 11:48 AM, Bob's Gmail <condreyb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> I used to have the link for the GTN install manual but can=99t find i
t at the moment. You can always email G3Xpert@garmin.com . That gets you t
o the Garmin experimental folks and they will get you what you need (includi
ng the GTN installation manual).
>
> Bob
>
>>> On Jan 19, 2022, at 12:57 PM, Robert Jones <rjones560xl@gmail.com> wrote
:
>>>
>> =EF=BBThe first link looks like it is the software update to version 6
.72. I followed the directions and hopefully it will update ok when I put it
in my 650. The second link is for their PC trainer, not the actual GTN650. T
he third is for the user manual, not the install manual. I built and wired m
y panel myself. Garmin did not provide an installation manual with the GTN6
50. I even called Garmin and they made it clear they were not going to help m
e get an installation manual as I don=99t have a licensed avionics sho
p. I am still not aware of anywhere Garmin provides an installation manual f
or anyone who buys a GTN650 unless you are a licensed avionics shop. I obta
ined one through a process that Garmin would likely not approve of. PLEASE FE
EL FREE TO CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG. I am still learning about about my equ
ipment and getting support for it down the road. I can only reference my own
experience. Anyone doing business as a licensed shop is going to have a ver
y different experience.
>>
>> Robert Jones
>>
>>>> On Jan 18, 2022, at 5:38 PM, SteinB <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>> =EF=BB
>>> Sure: https://fly.garmin.com/fly-garmin/support/pricing. Pick "G3X" and
you'll note the $49 option I mentioned, then the $149 option which is $100 i
ncrementally more for the charts/plates/rtc as I previously noted. Google i
s your friend =F0=9F=99=82
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:30 PM Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> w
rote:
>>>> Can your googlefoo find that $99 annual all charts/terrain/IFR subscrip
tion?
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/18/2022 12:44 PM, Jonathan Beasley wrote:
>>>>> LMGTFY about 30 seconds of googling
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> GTN 6XX/7XX - Software Loader Image 006-B1367-3K - Service Bulletin 21
43 software version 6.72 https://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.js
p?id=12531
>>>>> add-ons
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www8.garmin.com/support/collection.jsp?product=010-00813-50
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> manual
>>>>>
>>>>> https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01004-03_M.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Send me the link for the software updates for my GTN650. I spent an ho
ur on the Garmin site and all I could find was a list of the software update
s available and a list of the improvements made with each revision. I could
not find anywhere to get the actual updates. I put an ECHO ADSB unit in for
a friend recently. He had a Garmin 530W in his aircraft. It still had the 3
.0 software in it and it needed to be upgraded to the 5.0 and 5.4 software t
o harvest the GPS position from it for the ECHO. It cost $170.00 to do that f
rom the Garmin dealer on the field. I could have easily done it myself if I h
ad access to the software and the goofy memory cards that Garmin used then.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I only subscribe to the Navigation database for my GTN650 for $299 a y
ear. To get base map and terrain updates it would be $499, another $200. Dy
non gives me those for free. For another $169 a year I can get FlyQ with al
l the instrument procedures charts and the low and high altitude charts and t
he ability to display them on my Dynon EFIS with geo referencing. The FlyQ c
harts can now be updated using the Dynon WI-FI so I can just transfer the up
dates from my IPad to the USB sticks via WI-FI.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I have not looked into this for a couple of years, show me how m
uch I would have to pay for base maps, terrain and the IFR navigation data f
or Garmin if I had a complete Garmin panel. I could care less about =9C
Safe Taxi=9D as the equivalent is provided by FlyQ with the geo refere
nced taxi charts on my Dynon EFIS. I flew corporate jets professionally for
a few decades into 5,000-6000 different airports. I never had any trouble k
nowing where I was on the airport, however I can see how it would be useful f
or those that are not accustomed to throughly briefing themselves on the air
port taxi chart before they start the decent.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I bought my GTN 650 from a Garmin dealer. It did not come with an inst
allation manual. Perhaps you could point me to where I could download one fr
om Garmin=99s website.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have not had any experience with the Experimental side of Garmin. Do
they include installation manuals for everything they sell now? Will they a
ctually answer the phone and emails? Dynon has been doing that for a long t
ime. Have they started to provide wiring diagrams to interface with everyone
else=99s devices? Dynon was doing that when I put my panel in 2 1/2 y
ears ago.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I won=99t pretend that I am current on everything in avionics fo
r light aircraft. However my experience with Garmin customer service has no
t been very good. My experience with Garmin is that they try to lock you out
of anything that Garmin didn=99t make. I suppose a lot of manufacture
rs do that to some degree, but Garmin seems to work the hardest at that. If t
hey are getting better I suspect it is because Dynon started getting certifi
ed for a lot of the older aircraft and started eating their lunch. I like se
eing Garmin getting kicked where it hurts because it will force them to get b
etter. There is nothing like getting thrashed a bit by a strong competitor t
o get a company to start serving their customers better. Fierce competition t
ends to improve customer service and make for competitive pricing from all t
he manufacturers. I don=99t want to see Garmin go away. I would like t
o see them get better than they were when I bought my GTN 650.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert Jones
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 18, 2022, at 8:31 AM, SteinB <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> =EF=BB
>>>>>
>>>>> This is an oft repeated wives tail not based in any reality other than
marketing rhetoric or personal bias. We sell a lot of both brands, we love b
oth brands, but the whole "update cost" argument is dubious, because they ar
e almost identical. But for the base map VFR charts which Dynon gives out fo
r free (Garmin charges $49 per year), the plates/charts/sectionals, etc.. ar
e the same additional $99 per year from either company.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The updates for your GTN are actually a good deal CHEAPER when you hav
e Garmin EFISes then when you pair them with other brands (because of bundli
ng), so in that case you're actually upside down on costs.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Avidyne? They also have the same update costs regardless of what you d
o with an EFIS, so that's a push/wash.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Install manuals? You can get any install manual you want.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Flat rate repairs? They are almost identical in their amount between b
rands for similar devices (yep, Dynon charges flat rate repair fees out of w
arranty just like everyone else).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Support? Apparently (and obviously) you haven't dealt directly with th
e experimental side of the Garmin team - where they will send you exchanges a
nd/or repairs directly without needing to go through a dealer AT ALL. Softw
are updates for the devices (YES, even your GTN) are available for free, dir
ectly on the Garmin website where you yourself can go download them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's fine to be ignorant of the facts, but it's dubious to make up you
r alternate reality own based on personal bias or utter falsehoods.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We'll happily sell you either brand, we love both brands, but this who
le "one is superior to the other" based on your comments below is just incor
rect, not factual and therefore not credible.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Stein
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 9:55 PM Robert Jones <rjones560xl@gmail.com> w
rote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a 3 screen Dynon panel with a Garmin GTN650 for IFR navigation a
nd approaches. I personally would avoid a complete Garmin panel because of t
he cost of updates. I subscribe to the NAV updates for my 650 because everyt
hing else is free on the Dynon EFIS. Dynon got in bed with Seattle Avionics (
SkyQ) to display low or high altitude charts on the Dynon EFIS as well as th
e approach plates. This works well and it isn=99t that expensive.
>>>>> If you=99re looking at a 100% Garmin panel, look at what the upd
ates to keep everything current are for the next 10 years, and that does not
include software updates either. Dynon gives you them free. At Garmin, only
the dealer can get access to the software updates, even though anyone could
make do the updates if they had access to the files. Basically Garmin wants
to own you forever.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dynon will give you tech support. Garmin won=99t. As soon as the
y ask what licensed shop you work for and find out you don=99t work fo
r one the conversation is over. 0 support ever except to call a licensed Gar
min shop and pay they to fix the problem. You don=99t even get an inst
allation manual for the product you bought. Only the dealers get those.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are going to hire a Garmin dealer to overhaul your panel and fi
x everything that goes wrong in the future, are fine with the software and N
AV database costs then Garmin is fine. I put my whole panel in myself. If y
ou are planning on doing it yourself, Garmin isn=99t fine. Please unde
rstand that I am not badmouthing the Garmin products. They are fine. I just h
ate the way they treat their customers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert Jones
>>>>>
>>>>> > On Jan 17, 2022, at 3:01 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wr
ote:
>>>>> >
ating.com>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > There are 3 main ones. Grt Dynon (as well as it's subsidiary AFS) an
d Garmin. Depends on your budget and mission.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> On 1/17/2022 3:42 PM, dlm wrote:
>>>>> >> My DU1s and Crossbow AHRS are no longer supported. I must think of s
ome future replacement for them. What EFISs are being used in the newer 10s t
hese days?
>>>>> >> David McNeill
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> ==========
>>>>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?RV10-List
>>>>> ==========
>>>>> FORUMS -
>>>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>>> ==========
>>>>> WIKI -
>>>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>>>>> ==========
>>>>> b Site -
>>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>>> ="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution
>>>>> ==========
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Chelton replacements |
I got my GTN650 about 3 years ago. I told the dealer that it was going in an
RV10. They never said anything about an agreement that it was going in an e
xperimental. I got the correct manual for a GTN 650 from a source that can n
ot be revealed. However it is probably not current with the software upgrad
es I just installed. The current wiring is still fine, but there are probabl
y things that could be added that are not covered in my manual.
Robert Jones
> On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:14 PM, Martin Renschler <m.r.92129@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BBI have three approved devices in my experimental: GTN650Xi, GNX37
5 and GMA345. I sent a request for the installation manuals to g3Xpert@garmi
n.com and they came back and wanted the serial numbers and the dealer that I
bought from (with whom I had to sign an experimental agreement form for Gar
min devices at order time). After verification, they promptly sent me all th
ree installation manuals. Those were also newer than the ones I had found vi
a Google and there were important pin changes, so don=99t go that rout
e.
>
> /Martin
>
>
>> On Jan 19, 2022, at 10:52 AM, Robert Jones <rjones560xl@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The first link looks like it is the software update to version 6.72. I fo
llowed the directions and hopefully it will update ok when I put it in my 65
0. The second link is for their PC trainer, not the actual GTN650. The third
is for the user manual, not the install manual. I built and wired my panel m
yself. Garmin did not provide an installation manual with the GTN650. I eve
n called Garmin and they made it clear they were not going to help me get an
installation manual as I don=99t have a licensed avionics shop. I am s
till not aware of anywhere Garmin provides an installation manual for anyone
who buys a GTN650 unless you are a licensed avionics shop. I obtained one t
hrough a process that Garmin would likely not approve of. PLEASE FEEL FREE T
O CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG. I am still learning about about my equipment an
d getting support for it down the road. I can only reference my own experien
ce. Anyone doing business as a licensed shop is going to have a very differe
nt experience.
>>
>> Robert Jones
>>
>>>> On Jan 18, 2022, at 5:38 PM, SteinB <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>> =EF=BB
>>> Sure: https://fly.garmin.com/fly-garmin/support/pricing. Pick "G3X" and
you'll note the $49 option I mentioned, then the $149 option which is $100 i
ncrementally more for the charts/plates/rtc as I previously noted. Google i
s your friend =F0=9F=99=82
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:30 PM Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> w
rote:
>>>> Can your googlefoo find that $99 annual all charts/terrain/IFR subscrip
tion?
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/18/2022 12:44 PM, Jonathan Beasley wrote:
>>>>> LMGTFY about 30 seconds of googling
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> GTN 6XX/7XX - Software Loader Image 006-B1367-3K - Service Bulletin 21
43 software version 6.72 https://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.js
p?id=12531
>>>>> add-ons
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www8.garmin.com/support/collection.jsp?product=010-00813-50
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> manual
>>>>>
>>>>> https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01004-03_M.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Send me the link for the software updates for my GTN650. I spent an ho
ur on the Garmin site and all I could find was a list of the software update
s available and a list of the improvements made with each revision. I could
not find anywhere to get the actual updates. I put an ECHO ADSB unit in for
a friend recently. He had a Garmin 530W in his aircraft. It still had the 3
.0 software in it and it needed to be upgraded to the 5.0 and 5.4 software t
o harvest the GPS position from it for the ECHO. It cost $170.00 to do that f
rom the Garmin dealer on the field. I could have easily done it myself if I h
ad access to the software and the goofy memory cards that Garmin used then.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I only subscribe to the Navigation database for my GTN650 for $299 a y
ear. To get base map and terrain updates it would be $499, another $200. Dy
non gives me those for free. For another $169 a year I can get FlyQ with al
l the instrument procedures charts and the low and high altitude charts and t
he ability to display them on my Dynon EFIS with geo referencing. The FlyQ c
harts can now be updated using the Dynon WI-FI so I can just transfer the up
dates from my IPad to the USB sticks via WI-FI.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I have not looked into this for a couple of years, show me how m
uch I would have to pay for base maps, terrain and the IFR navigation data f
or Garmin if I had a complete Garmin panel. I could care less about =9C
Safe Taxi=9D as the equivalent is provided by FlyQ with the geo refere
nced taxi charts on my Dynon EFIS. I flew corporate jets professionally for
a few decades into 5,000-6000 different airports. I never had any trouble k
nowing where I was on the airport, however I can see how it would be useful f
or those that are not accustomed to throughly briefing themselves on the air
port taxi chart before they start the decent.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I bought my GTN 650 from a Garmin dealer. It did not come with an inst
allation manual. Perhaps you could point me to where I could download one fr
om Garmin=99s website.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have not had any experience with the Experimental side of Garmin. Do
they include installation manuals for everything they sell now? Will they a
ctually answer the phone and emails? Dynon has been doing that for a long t
ime. Have they started to provide wiring diagrams to interface with everyone
else=99s devices? Dynon was doing that when I put my panel in 2 1/2 y
ears ago.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I won=99t pretend that I am current on everything in avionics fo
r light aircraft. However my experience with Garmin customer service has no
t been very good. My experience with Garmin is that they try to lock you out
of anything that Garmin didn=99t make. I suppose a lot of manufacture
rs do that to some degree, but Garmin seems to work the hardest at that. If t
hey are getting better I suspect it is because Dynon started getting certifi
ed for a lot of the older aircraft and started eating their lunch. I like se
eing Garmin getting kicked where it hurts because it will force them to get b
etter. There is nothing like getting thrashed a bit by a strong competitor t
o get a company to start serving their customers better. Fierce competition t
ends to improve customer service and make for competitive pricing from all t
he manufacturers. I don=99t want to see Garmin go away. I would like t
o see them get better than they were when I bought my GTN 650.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert Jones
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 18, 2022, at 8:31 AM, SteinB <stein@steinair.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> =EF=BB
>>>>>
>>>>> This is an oft repeated wives tail not based in any reality other than
marketing rhetoric or personal bias. We sell a lot of both brands, we love b
oth brands, but the whole "update cost" argument is dubious, because they ar
e almost identical. But for the base map VFR charts which Dynon gives out fo
r free (Garmin charges $49 per year), the plates/charts/sectionals, etc.. ar
e the same additional $99 per year from either company.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The updates for your GTN are actually a good deal CHEAPER when you hav
e Garmin EFISes then when you pair them with other brands (because of bundli
ng), so in that case you're actually upside down on costs.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Avidyne? They also have the same update costs regardless of what you d
o with an EFIS, so that's a push/wash.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Install manuals? You can get any install manual you want.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Flat rate repairs? They are almost identical in their amount between b
rands for similar devices (yep, Dynon charges flat rate repair fees out of w
arranty just like everyone else).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Support? Apparently (and obviously) you haven't dealt directly with th
e experimental side of the Garmin team - where they will send you exchanges a
nd/or repairs directly without needing to go through a dealer AT ALL. Softw
are updates for the devices (YES, even your GTN) are available for free, dir
ectly on the Garmin website where you yourself can go download them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's fine to be ignorant of the facts, but it's dubious to make up you
r alternate reality own based on personal bias or utter falsehoods.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We'll happily sell you either brand, we love both brands, but this who
le "one is superior to the other" based on your comments below is just incor
rect, not factual and therefore not credible.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Stein
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 9:55 PM Robert Jones <rjones560xl@gmail.com> w
rote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a 3 screen Dynon panel with a Garmin GTN650 for IFR navigation a
nd approaches. I personally would avoid a complete Garmin panel because of t
he cost of updates. I subscribe to the NAV updates for my 650 because everyt
hing else is free on the Dynon EFIS. Dynon got in bed with Seattle Avionics (
SkyQ) to display low or high altitude charts on the Dynon EFIS as well as th
e approach plates. This works well and it isn=99t that expensive.
>>>>> If you=99re looking at a 100% Garmin panel, look at what the upd
ates to keep everything current are for the next 10 years, and that does not
include software updates either. Dynon gives you them free. At Garmin, only
the dealer can get access to the software updates, even though anyone could
make do the updates if they had access to the files. Basically Garmin wants
to own you forever.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dynon will give you tech support. Garmin won=99t. As soon as the
y ask what licensed shop you work for and find out you don=99t work fo
r one the conversation is over. 0 support ever except to call a licensed Gar
min shop and pay they to fix the problem. You don=99t even get an inst
allation manual for the product you bought. Only the dealers get those.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are going to hire a Garmin dealer to overhaul your panel and fi
x everything that goes wrong in the future, are fine with the software and N
AV database costs then Garmin is fine. I put my whole panel in myself. If y
ou are planning on doing it yourself, Garmin isn=99t fine. Please unde
rstand that I am not badmouthing the Garmin products. They are fine. I just h
ate the way they treat their customers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert Jones
>>>>>
>>>>> > On Jan 17, 2022, at 3:01 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wr
ote:
>>>>> >
ating.com>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > There are 3 main ones. Grt Dynon (as well as it's subsidiary AFS) an
d Garmin. Depends on your budget and mission.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> On 1/17/2022 3:42 PM, dlm wrote:
>>>>> >> My DU1s and Crossbow AHRS are no longer supported. I must think of s
ome future replacement for them. What EFISs are being used in the newer 10s t
hese days?
>>>>> >> David McNeill
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> ==========
>>>>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?RV10-List
>>>>> ==========
>>>>> FORUMS -
>>>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>>> ==========
>>>>> WIKI -
>>>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>>>>> ==========
>>>>> b Site -
>>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>>> ="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution
>>>>> ==========
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|