---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/30/23: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 11:14 AM - Re: Flap Controller (Tim Olson) 2. 01:25 PM - Re: Flap Controller (Thomas Mason) 3. 01:53 PM - Re: Flap Controller (Bob Turner) 4. 02:09 PM - Re: Re: Flap Controller (Tim Olson) 5. 03:59 PM - Re: Flap Controller (Bob Turner) 6. 04:21 PM - Re: Re: Flap Controller (Dave Saylor) 7. 04:33 PM - Re: Re: Flap Controller (Lenny Iszak) 8. 08:23 PM - Re: Flap Controller (Bob Turner) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 11:14:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap Controller From: Tim Olson I've been meaning to reply to this one but just catching up. I may have dated info, but, I'm pretty sure I have the Showplanes system, and I think that *was* the Van's system when I was building in 2004-2006. So it caught me off guard that you are differentiating between a Van's system and Showplanes system. Was there another generation of systems that I don't remember? Mine is Showplanes, sent with my kit at the time, and does shut off when the flaps are all the way up or down. I know there was that other similar system that came out that I saw on VAF a couple years ago, and that was basically very similar with maybe an improved motor or something. I think it was sold by Pat Hatch if I remember right? Is that now the Van's system? Tim On 1/20/2023 10:02 PM, Dave Saylor wrote: > I flew for the first few years with just the switch and some hash > marks on the flap. Like Tim said, it's easy to look out the window. > > Partnership duties required I install the Showplanes system. It works > pretty well but it's more complicated and not as reliable and for me > it doesn't really provide any additional assistance. But the others > like it so it'll stay. It's been there for 10+ years now and every now > and then it indicates incorrectly and gets "stuck", usually in the > zero position. Then you have to run it a couple times til the micro > switch goes back to the desired position. This has happened a handful > of times in maybe 1000 hours. So not a huge problem. > > The showplanes system does shut off the flap motor when the flaps are > full up. IIRC the motor continues to run (harmlessly) with the Van's > system. So again not a huge advantage. If I did it again I'd just > keep the Van's system. > > --Dave > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 4:33 AM werner schneider wrote: > > > I need to pull the knowledge of the community ;) > > If you have neither a Garmin panel (GAD27), nor a VPX or an > Advanced AFS Module, what do you use for the flaps? > > - visual controll via an up/down switch ? > - the display on teh EFIS showing you position of the flaps via an > up/down switch ? > - a controller for fixed position via an up/down switch? > - ??? > > Thanks for your help > > Werner (finishing after a 10 yrs break) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509976#509976 > > > ========== > -List" rel="noreferrer" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > ========== > FORUMS - > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > WIKI - > errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com > ========== > b Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > ="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:25:14 PM PST US From: Thomas Mason Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap Controller SGVyZSBpcyBhIGxpbmsgdG8gdGhlIFJWLTEwIGZsYXAgbW90b3IgcmV0cm9maXQga2l0LiBodHRw czovL3N0b3JlLnZhbnNhaXJjcmFmdC5jb20vMTAtZmxhcC1tb3Rvci1yZXRyb2ZpdC1raXQuaHRt bC4gU2FtZSBpZGVhIGFzIHRoZSBQSCBBdmlhdGlvbiBmbGFwIG1vdG9yLg0KDQpJ4oCZbSBzdGls bCBidWlsZGluZy4gRXZlbiB0aG91Z2ggbXkgb3JpZ2luYWwgZmxhcCBzeXN0ZW0gd2FzIGFscmVh ZHkgaW5zdGFsbGVkLCBJIHJlcGxhY2VkIGl0IHNwZWNpZmljYWxseSBiZWNhdXNlIGl0IGhhcyB0 aGUgcG9zaXRpb24gcG90ZW50aW9tZXRlciBidWlsdCBpbi4gVGhhdCBhbGxvd2VkIG1lIHRvIGdl dCByaWQgb2YgdGhlIGV4dHJhIGZsYXAgcG9zaXRpb25pbmcgc3lzdGVtLiBUaGUgQWR2YW5jZWQg RmxpZ2h0IFN5c3RlbXMgc2NyZWVuIEnigJltIHBsYW5uaW5nIHRvIHVzZSBpbmNsdWRlcyBhIHBy b2dyYW1tYWJsZSBmbGFwIHBvc2l0aW9uIGNvbnRyb2xsZXIuDQoNClRoZSBraXQgaW5jbHVkZXMg 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YXRyb25pY3MuY29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9SVjEwLUxpc3QNCj09PT09PT09PT09DQpGT1JVTVMgLQ0K ZWZlcnJlciIgdGFyZ2V0PSJfYmxhbmsiPmh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KPT09 PT09PT09PT0NCldJS0kgLQ0KZXJyZXIiIHRhcmdldD0iX2JsYW5rIj5odHRwOi8vd2lraS5tYXRy b25pY3MuY29tDQo9PT09PT09PT09PQ0KYiBTaXRlIC0NCiAgICAgICAgICAtTWF0dCBEcmFsbGUs IExpc3QgQWRtaW4uDQo9Im5vcmVmZXJyZXIiIHRhcmdldD0iX2JsYW5rIj5odHRwczovL21hdHJv bmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uDQo9PT09PT09PT09PQ0KDQoNCg0KDQo ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:53 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Flap Controller From: "Bob Turner" Tim, By 2008 the Showplanes flap controller was an extra cost option (it may have been available directly from Vans?). The no-extra cost system was simply a switch which continuously ran the flaps, up or down, as selected. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510073#510073 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:09:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Flap Controller From: Tim Olson Thanks Bob, that's interesting. I wasn't aware that it got that stripped down at one point. Tim On 1/30/2023 3:53 PM, Bob Turner wrote: > > Tim, > By 2008 the Showplanes flap controller was an extra cost option (it may have been available directly from Vans?). The no-extra cost system was simply a switch which continuously ran the flaps, up or down, as selected. > > -------- > Bob Turner > RV-10 QB > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510073#510073 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:59:26 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Flap Controller From: "Bob Turner" bwestfall wrote: > Many people install a Ray Allen POS-12 position sensor attached somewhere on > a flap bar to measure the extension points and report to your efis. I did > this but cannot find a picture. The POS-12 is connected to my VP-X which > controls flap movement. Basically I used a short piece of hinge material > riveted to the rear spar bulkhead assembly on one end and an adel clamp > around the flap torque tube with a small piece of angle bracket attaching to > the other end. This is all under the passenger side flap torque tube cover > in the rear footwell on my plane. It just barely has enough travel to work. > It has been mostly reliable but occasionally I have to hit the down switch > more than once to get it to move down. > > -Ben > -- If you think about exactly where (in rotation) you attach the POS sensor to the torque tube, you can maximize the sensitivity to the smallest movement (-3 to zero flaps). Also, I've trained myself to hod the switch down for a 1/2 a second or a bit longer. A very quick push and release is not long enough for the flap sensor to move off the "bump" in the position sensing rigid wire. I suppose a small electronic timer could fix this, but I don't want to add any complexity. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510076#510076 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:37 PM PST US From: Dave Saylor Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Flap Controller > > > I've trained myself to hod the switch down for a 1/2 a second or a bit > longer. Same here. I learned to do a deliberate one-count at each position. ===== > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:15 PM PST US From: Lenny Iszak Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Flap Controller It=99s good to have automatic position control. At night you can =99t see the flaps, so you=99d be counting mississippis. :) In a takeoff emergency you don=99t have time to fiddle with the flaps. Best lift/drag ratio is a round 15 degrees of flaps on the RV-10. Don=99t think you=99ll be able t o move it exactly there in an emergency. With a positioner one click and you=99 re there. I bought the Showplanes version (not from Van=99s), but wasn=99 t thrilled with the microswitch based approach. Too many points of failure for my taste. I have an Arduino based flap controller that=99s been working great for 900+ hours. Btw, TCW now sells a flap controller that has a positioning feature without a position sensor and it=99s got Vfe protection too. If I was to do i t again, I=99d install that now. https://www.tcwtech.com/product/intelligent-flap-controller/ Lenny On Jan 30, 2023 at 6:58:58 PM, Bob Turner wrote: > > > bwestfall wrote: > > Many people install a Ray Allen POS-12 position sensor attached somewhere > on > > a flap bar to measure the extension points and report to your efis. I di d > > this but cannot find a picture. The POS-12 is connected to my VP-X which > > controls flap movement. Basically I used a short piece of hinge material > > riveted to the rear spar bulkhead assembly on one end and an adel clamp > > around the flap torque tube with a small piece of angle bracket attaching > to > > the other end. This is all under the passenger side flap torque tube cov er > > in the rear footwell on my plane. It just barely has enough travel to > work. > > It has been mostly reliable but occasionally I have to hit the down switc h > > more than once to get it to move down. > > > -Ben > > -- > > > If you think about exactly where (in rotation) you attach the POS sensor > to the torque tube, you can maximize the sensitivity to the smallest > movement (-3 to zero flaps). Also, I've trained myself to hod the switch > down for a 1/2 a second or a bit longer. A very quick push and release is > not long enough for the flap sensor to move off the "bump" in the positio n > sensing rigid wire. I suppose a small electronic timer could fix this, bu t > I don't want to add any complexity. > > -------- > Bob Turner > RV-10 QB > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510076#510076 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:59 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Flap Controller From: "Bob Turner" Lenny Iszak wrote: > . Best lift/drag ratio is around 15 degrees of flaps on the RV-10. > Lenny > Do you have a reference or data to back up this assertion? If true, we should all be practicing engine-out best glide with flaps 15. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510079#510079 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.