Today's Message Index:
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0. 12:08 AM - Just A Few More Days... (Matt Dralle)
1. 07:24 AM - Re: RV-12 as a True E-LSA ()
2. 09:41 AM - Re: Re: RV-12 as a True E-LSA (John Cox)
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| Subject: | Just A Few More Days... |
Dear Listers,
There are just a few more days left in this year's List Fund Raiser. There are
some great gifts available when you make a qualifying Contribution and there's
plenty still available. Don't forget that its *your* Contribution that keeps
the computers running, the electricity turned on, and the computer room AC cooling!
If you look forward to reading your List email each day, won't you please take
a minute right now to make your personal Contribution?
Credit Card or Paypal:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RV-12 as a True E-LSA |
11/26/2008
Hello Rick, Thanks for your quick response. You wrote:
1) "So the answer to your question is, no, at this time there is no way to
build an E-LSA without having a registration issued before 1-31-2008, and
that only last until the expiration of the extension on 1-31-2010."
We both agree on the above.
2) "Per the above, the FAA accepted ASTM standard is F2536-06."
http://www.astm.org/Standards/F2563.htm
I stand corrected -- the instruction standard does exist. And I feel that if
Vans instructions for assembling the RV-12 kit meet that standard then,
eventually when the other LSA boxes are appropriately filled by Vans, then a
kit built RV-12 should be able to be built, registered, and certified as a
true E-LSA. I thank you for educating me.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Girard" <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV-12 as a True E-LSA
"To my knowledge no such "applicable consensus standard" exists. If no such
standard exists then Vans cannot possibly be providing assembly instructions
for the RV-12 kit that meets that standard."
See:
http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/light_sport/media/standards_chart_v2.pdf
Per the above, the FAA accepted ASTM standard is F2536-06.
>From Van's web site: "The RV-12 meets the certification standards of the *L*
ight *S*port *A*ircraft category", however I can find no update that says
they have a statement of compliance, yet. Since S-LSA certification is done
by the delegation option, i.e. the manufacturer says it is in compliance,
therefore it is. My understanding is that at this time the FAA requires
submission of POH and the maintenance manual and an inspection of the
facilities to obtain S-LSA manufacturing, but I haven't seen anything about
how the FAA will go about the process for someone like Van's that has no
intention of building the actual S-LSA, only the kits.
"One can convert an S-LSA to an E-LSA
if you can prove that the original manufacturer is no longer supporting
their S-LSAs. For example, if the company went out of business. I
don't know if there are any in this category, yet."
While this is the justification for 21.191(i)3, there is no requirement for
fleet abandonment. Down grading the aircraft from S-LSA to E-LSA means that
the aircraft can no longer be used for training or hire and you'd have to be
an idiot to do it (IMHO), but there is no prohibition against making your
Cessna 162 (say) an E-LSA.
So the answer to your question is, no, at this time there is no way to build
an E-LSA without having a registration issued before 1-31-2008, and that
only last until the expiration of the extension on 1-31-2010.
Rick
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RV-12 as a True E-LSA |
To add to this important discussion, it is my understanding that the
RV-12 kit "in its entirety" has not yet been FAA blessed. Further,
under the ARC 51% perspective by the FAA participants, there is a small
but real risk that it might not be without some healthy attitude change
by the FAA on what constitutes - 51%. Your comments (forwarded to the
FAA) prior to the final/final deadline of December 15th could have a
compelling impact. Can anyone advise?
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv12-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv12-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
bakerocb@COX.NET
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 7:25 AM
Subject: RV12-List: Re: RV-12 as a True E-LSA
11/26/2008
Hello Rick, Thanks for your quick response. You wrote:
1) "So the answer to your question is, no, at this time there is no way
to
build an E-LSA without having a registration issued before 1-31-2008,
and
that only last until the expiration of the extension on 1-31-2010."
We both agree on the above.
2) "Per the above, the FAA accepted ASTM standard is F2536-06."
http://www.astm.org/Standards/F2563.htm
I stand corrected -- the instruction standard does exist. And I feel
that if
Vans instructions for assembling the RV-12 kit meet that standard then,
eventually when the other LSA boxes are appropriately filled by Vans,
then a
kit built RV-12 should be able to be built, registered, and certified as
a
true E-LSA. I thank you for educating me.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Girard" <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV-12 as a True E-LSA
"To my knowledge no such "applicable consensus standard" exists. If no
such
standard exists then Vans cannot possibly be providing assembly
instructions
for the RV-12 kit that meets that standard."
See:
http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/light_sport/media/standards_chart_v2.
pdf
Per the above, the FAA accepted ASTM standard is F2536-06.
>From Van's web site: "The RV-12 meets the certification standards of
the *L*
ight *S*port *A*ircraft category", however I can find no update that
says
they have a statement of compliance, yet. Since S-LSA certification is
done
by the delegation option, i.e. the manufacturer says it is in
compliance,
therefore it is. My understanding is that at this time the FAA requires
submission of POH and the maintenance manual and an inspection of the
facilities to obtain S-LSA manufacturing, but I haven't seen anything
about
how the FAA will go about the process for someone like Van's that has no
intention of building the actual S-LSA, only the kits.
"One can convert an S-LSA to an E-LSA
if you can prove that the original manufacturer is no longer supporting
their S-LSAs. For example, if the company went out of business. I
don't know if there are any in this category, yet."
While this is the justification for 21.191(i)3, there is no requirement
for
fleet abandonment. Down grading the aircraft from S-LSA to E-LSA means
that
the aircraft can no longer be used for training or hire and you'd have
to be
an idiot to do it (IMHO), but there is no prohibition against making
your
Cessna 162 (say) an E-LSA.
So the answer to your question is, no, at this time there is no way to
build
an E-LSA without having a registration issued before 1-31-2008, and that
only last until the expiration of the extension on 1-31-2010.
Rick
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