Today's Message Index:
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1. 09:13 AM - Re: Battery Box Problem - Anyone Else? (Stoney Ware)
2. 09:30 AM - Re: Battery Box Problem - Anyone Else? (Tim Olson)
3. 09:40 AM - Re: Battery Box Problem - Anyone Else? (Stoney Ware)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Battery Box Problem - Anyone Else? |
How's it coming Tim? I am going to be doing some Proseal this weekend on the firewall
and finish riveting the rest of the side skins. It says to cleco the
skins, hinges and shims in place, then do the Proseal. Seems like you may not
want to have that on there before applying it, but I will have to look at it
again later.
I called Genuine Hardware and got the marketing person's voicemail and told her
they should make kits with those washers, maybe 25 of each of different sizes
and they would sell more. We'll see what they say.
Stoney
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv14-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv14-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 9:59 AM
Subject: RV14-List: Battery Box Problem - Anyone Else?
When you get to the firewall, you have to beware. I've been finding more and more
plans errors lately as I'm moving ahead. If there is anyone up to the same
spot I am, I am unlikely to be the only one with this issue. If you also have
this issue, I'm hoping to join up with you and share the cost of some parts
to repair it.
Let me explain:
In the plans, there are many areas on the stainless firewall that they tell you
"DO NOT DIMPLE". There are also areas on the underlying support aluminum that
they tell you "DO NOT COUNTERSINK".
The battery box gets riveted on to the forward side of the firewall using countersunk
rivets. The INTENTION is to countersink the battery box and rivet it to
the firewall. The reality, in the current version of plans, is that you end
up dimpling all those holes in the firewall, and countersinking the aluminum
supports under them. So, now you'll end up with a battery box that is laid on
top of countersunk/dimpled holes...creating a gap, and then you countersink the
battery box for the actual AN426AD4 rivet.
So, DO NOT DIMPLE OR COUNTERSINK the holes for the battery box as the plans tell
you.
I emailed Van's support after finding this all out the hard way, and after a few
days I finally got a reply that I didn't really like. It wasn't discussed with
engineering...just off the cuff. The suggestion was to just rivet those dimpled
holes with nothing in them, but then move the battery box over and re-drill
new holes. The firewall supports being somewhat structural, I wouldn't do
this without engineering blessing, but beyond that, now your battery box location
is shifted and who knows what may be affected later on.
From the discussions I've had with tech support, it sounds like they are highly
unfamiliar with the kit thus far, as you'd expect, because they need to learn
as they go just like we do. Only engineering knows the intention, or structural
concerns, so any RV-14 specific questions need deeper investigation by them
until they learn it too.
I did find a better fix. Genuine Aircraft Hardware sells some Countersunk Repair
Washers/Plugs, p/n LS5931A71, that are designed to go into a countersunk hole
if you later need to cover it with a flat material or a round head rivet.
It's a cone-shaped filler. It would fix the issue nicely.
The only catch is, they are sold in 100 packs only, at about $56 per pack plus
shipping. We only need 19 to fix a battery box. If there are enough of you out
there who have dimpled this area, then I'll consider ordering a 100 count pack
of them and splitting it up. This being the real fix, it would be good to
do, but at almost 1/2 the cost of a new battery I don't want to swallow it all
alone if I don't have to.
Anyone else up to this stage with the same issue?
Tim
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Box Problem - Anyone Else? |
Hey Stoney,
Your intuition is correct. You can and should cleco the shims and
hinges on to verify that it all fits well, but, you'll have to
pull them off and un-cleco everything to get the proseal between
the firewall and the skins.
Another thing is that with the sides all clecoed up, it's harder
to get the gap to put in the proseal, so I had to remove clecos
back maybe 18" to make it more loose. So anyway, the moral is,
just don't make it too cleco'd up before you get to that step.
Might also be good to tighten those temporary bolts on the
longerons so that everything is at it's final position.
I haven't riveted the battery box on the firewall yet, but I did
make all the washers and then stuck them in place with JB
weld too. I gave it time to harden up and then I'll quick ream
the center holes clear of any material and I'll be set.
I'm glad that dimpling works too...that will help anyone
else caught. I just didn't want to try it and find out it
didn't, so glad others went first.
I've finished most of the riveting the sides. Just have to get
help to get the rivets done that are on the bottom sides of the
skin, and the lower longerons.
With a weekend starting tomorrow, I guess maybe I'll be seeing
how hard it is to attach that tailcone. Should be fun!
Tim
On 12/12/2014 11:11 AM, Stoney Ware wrote:
>
> How's it coming Tim? I am going to be doing some Proseal this
> weekend on the firewall and finish riveting the rest of the side
> skins. It says to cleco the skins, hinges and shims in place, then
> do the Proseal. Seems like you may not want to have that on there
> before applying it, but I will have to look at it again later.
>
> I called Genuine Hardware and got the marketing person's voicemail
> and told her they should make kits with those washers, maybe 25 of
> each of different sizes and they would sell more. We'll see what
> they say.
>
> Stoney
>
> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv14-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv14-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 9:59 AM To:
> rv14-list@matronics.com Subject: RV14-List: Battery Box Problem -
> Anyone Else?
>
>
> When you get to the firewall, you have to beware. I've been finding
> more and more plans errors lately as I'm moving ahead. If there is
> anyone up to the same spot I am, I am unlikely to be the only one
> with this issue. If you also have this issue, I'm hoping to join up
> with you and share the cost of some parts to repair it.
>
> Let me explain:
>
> In the plans, there are many areas on the stainless firewall that
> they tell you "DO NOT DIMPLE". There are also areas on the
> underlying support aluminum that they tell you "DO NOT COUNTERSINK".
>
> The battery box gets riveted on to the forward side of the firewall
> using countersunk rivets. The INTENTION is to countersink the
> battery box and rivet it to the firewall. The reality, in the
> current version of plans, is that you end up dimpling all those holes
> in the firewall, and countersinking the aluminum supports under them.
> So, now you'll end up with a battery box that is laid on top of
> countersunk/dimpled holes...creating a gap, and then you countersink
> the battery box for the actual AN426AD4 rivet.
>
> So, DO NOT DIMPLE OR COUNTERSINK the holes for the battery box as the
> plans tell you.
>
> I emailed Van's support after finding this all out the hard way, and
> after a few days I finally got a reply that I didn't really like. It
> wasn't discussed with engineering...just off the cuff. The
> suggestion was to just rivet those dimpled holes with nothing in
> them, but then move the battery box over and re-drill new holes. The
> firewall supports being somewhat structural, I wouldn't do this
> without engineering blessing, but beyond that, now your battery box
> location is shifted and who knows what may be affected later on. From
> the discussions I've had with tech support, it sounds like they are
> highly unfamiliar with the kit thus far, as you'd expect, because
> they need to learn as they go just like we do. Only engineering
> knows the intention, or structural concerns, so any RV-14 specific
> questions need deeper investigation by them until they learn it too.
>
> I did find a better fix. Genuine Aircraft Hardware sells some
> Countersunk Repair Washers/Plugs, p/n LS5931A71, that are designed to
> go into a countersunk hole if you later need to cover it with a flat
> material or a round head rivet. It's a cone-shaped filler. It would
> fix the issue nicely.
>
> The only catch is, they are sold in 100 packs only, at about $56 per
> pack plus shipping. We only need 19 to fix a battery box. If there
> are enough of you out there who have dimpled this area, then I'll
> consider ordering a 100 count pack of them and splitting it up. This
> being the real fix, it would be good to do, but at almost 1/2 the
> cost of a new battery I don't want to swallow it all alone if I don't
> have to.
>
> Anyone else up to this stage with the same issue?
>
> Tim
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Battery Box Problem - Anyone Else? |
Keep me posted. Another builder, "E" said a friend of his, that's way ahead of
us, said it was a bitch.
Stoney
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv14-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv14-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: RV14-List: Battery Box Problem - Anyone Else?
Hey Stoney,
Your intuition is correct. You can and should cleco the shims and hinges on to
verify that it all fits well, but, you'll have to pull them off and un-cleco
everything to get the proseal between the firewall and the skins.
Another thing is that with the sides all clecoed up, it's harder to get the gap
to put in the proseal, so I had to remove clecos back maybe 18" to make it more
loose. So anyway, the moral is, just don't make it too cleco'd up before you
get to that step.
Might also be good to tighten those temporary bolts on the longerons so that everything
is at it's final position.
I haven't riveted the battery box on the firewall yet, but I did make all the washers
and then stuck them in place with JB weld too. I gave it time to harden
up and then I'll quick ream the center holes clear of any material and I'll
be set.
I'm glad that dimpling works too...that will help anyone else caught. I just didn't
want to try it and find out it didn't, so glad others went first.
I've finished most of the riveting the sides. Just have to get help to get the
rivets done that are on the bottom sides of the skin, and the lower longerons.
With a weekend starting tomorrow, I guess maybe I'll be seeing how hard it is to
attach that tailcone. Should be fun!
Tim
On 12/12/2014 11:11 AM, Stoney Ware wrote:
>
> How's it coming Tim? I am going to be doing some Proseal this weekend
> on the firewall and finish riveting the rest of the side skins. It
> says to cleco the skins, hinges and shims in place, then do the
> Proseal. Seems like you may not want to have that on there before
> applying it, but I will have to look at it again later.
>
> I called Genuine Hardware and got the marketing person's voicemail and
> told her they should make kits with those washers, maybe 25 of each of
> different sizes and they would sell more. We'll see what they say.
>
> Stoney
>
> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv14-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv14-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 9:59 AM To:
> rv14-list@matronics.com Subject: RV14-List: Battery Box Problem -
> Anyone Else?
>
>
> When you get to the firewall, you have to beware. I've been finding
> more and more plans errors lately as I'm moving ahead. If there is
> anyone up to the same spot I am, I am unlikely to be the only one with
> this issue. If you also have this issue, I'm hoping to join up with
> you and share the cost of some parts to repair it.
>
> Let me explain:
>
> In the plans, there are many areas on the stainless firewall that they
> tell you "DO NOT DIMPLE". There are also areas on the underlying
> support aluminum that they tell you "DO NOT COUNTERSINK".
>
> The battery box gets riveted on to the forward side of the firewall
> using countersunk rivets. The INTENTION is to countersink the battery
> box and rivet it to the firewall. The reality, in the current version
> of plans, is that you end up dimpling all those holes in the firewall,
> and countersinking the aluminum supports under them.
> So, now you'll end up with a battery box that is laid on top of
> countersunk/dimpled holes...creating a gap, and then you countersink
> the battery box for the actual AN426AD4 rivet.
>
> So, DO NOT DIMPLE OR COUNTERSINK the holes for the battery box as the
> plans tell you.
>
> I emailed Van's support after finding this all out the hard way, and
> after a few days I finally got a reply that I didn't really like. It
> wasn't discussed with engineering...just off the cuff. The suggestion
> was to just rivet those dimpled holes with nothing in them, but then
> move the battery box over and re-drill new holes. The firewall
> supports being somewhat structural, I wouldn't do this without
> engineering blessing, but beyond that, now your battery box location
> is shifted and who knows what may be affected later on. From the
> discussions I've had with tech support, it sounds like they are highly
> unfamiliar with the kit thus far, as you'd expect, because they need
> to learn as they go just like we do. Only engineering knows the
> intention, or structural concerns, so any RV-14 specific questions
> need deeper investigation by them until they learn it too.
>
> I did find a better fix. Genuine Aircraft Hardware sells some
> Countersunk Repair Washers/Plugs, p/n LS5931A71, that are designed to
> go into a countersunk hole if you later need to cover it with a flat
> material or a round head rivet. It's a cone-shaped filler. It would
> fix the issue nicely.
>
> The only catch is, they are sold in 100 packs only, at about $56 per
> pack plus shipping. We only need 19 to fix a battery box. If there
> are enough of you out there who have dimpled this area, then I'll
> consider ordering a 100 count pack of them and splitting it up. This
> being the real fix, it would be good to do, but at almost 1/2 the cost
> of a new battery I don't want to swallow it all alone if I don't have
> to.
>
> Anyone else up to this stage with the same issue?
>
> Tim
>
>
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