---------------------------------------------------------- RV3-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/01/04: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:40 AM - Re: exhaust,battery,cabin heat (rob ray) 2. 07:42 AM - Re: exhaust,battery,cabin heat (rob ray) 3. 08:34 AM - exhaust (Fred Bauer Jr) 4. 08:35 AM - exhaust,battery,cabin heat (Fred Bauer Jr) 5. 12:05 PM - Re: exhaust,battery,cabin heat (rob ray) 6. 03:08 PM - leading edge skin (Leesafur@aol.com) 7. 09:42 PM - Re: leading edge skin (Jim Oke) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:08 AM PST US From: rob ray Subject: Re: RV3-List: exhaust,battery,cabin heat --> RV3-List message posted by: rob ray Hi Fred, Lotsa questions so here goes...first the carb air intake was designed by me, a simple tunnel ram with a flapper valve to close it off and a 2" duct on top of it with a K&N filter attached to the duct. I normally close the flapper base-to-final and during ground ops. After 1100 hours it works fine, but I am considering a new design. I use a single heat muff but found while living in SD (I now live in FL) that it wasn't enough. A CO RV4 guy actually makes a nice dual muff but is hard to find. Try www.vansairforce.net and see if someone makes one on the RV yeller pages. One thing I did was to wrap a bedspring inside the muff as a heatsink and use a 1" scat inlet versus a 2" inlet. I think the 2" cooled the air in the muff too much and reduced the heat effectiveness. I bought my Odyessy 680C battery from a battery vendor on the internet for $65 but Van now sells them for $69. It works great and I mounted it on my firewall to move CG forward and reduce weight from the original battery. Good Luck... Rob Ray Fred Bauer Jr wrote: --> RV3-List message posted by: "Fred Bauer Jr" Larry W FYI, I notice from your pictures that you have the original style carb air inlet built into your lower cowl. It is the same inlet that our old RV4 had, the one that does not have an air cleaner. We have the lower cowl [new style] that will accept the air cleaner that Van's appears to favor, I saw this same inlet design on a new RV9. I have been thinking about installing a flat piece of stainless steel sheet with sound insulation between it and the ramp floor where the exhaust exits the engine compartment, much the same as the Piper Twin Comanche. I feel that aluminum does not like the corrosive exhaust gases and heat [it gets brittle] that is in that area. Also, it should quiet the noise from the exhaust, the Swearingen had such a piece installed in the exhaust exit ramp and I felt that it lowered the exhaust noise to more of a lower octave rumble. The Swearingen also had the individual exhaust pipes so I am leaning in that direction, Ed Swearingen knows engine compartments better than anyone. Do you get enough heat from the single cabin heat muff? We have 2 cabin heat muffs on the T-18 and we purchased 2 cabin heat boxes and expect to install 2 heat muffs on the RV3. The reason for the 2 heat muffs is that we purchased 2 canopy frames and will be building 2 separate canopies, one as a normal swingover bubble and the other as an open cockpit. Using the same piano hinge swingover attachment as the bubble. This might be fun, we don't know for sure but we feel that we won't want to cruise around at top speed with an open cockpit but during the summer or in warm climates we should be able to get the "wind in the face" feel that I enjoyed with the Baby Great Lakes biplane and that others enjoy with similar biplanes. I notice that the Odyssey battery comes in several versions, is the one you have been using working well or should we purchase the higher Amp one that they also offer? Regards, Fred ==================================== --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:19 AM PST US From: rob ray Subject: Re: RV3-List: exhaust,battery,cabin heat --> RV3-List message posted by: rob ray Fred, about my exhaust, I used a Vetterman 4 pipe system that has had absolutely no problems in 1100 hours, highly recommended....your Comanche sheet metal inside the cowl idea sounds cool, could you send me some specs on it? RR Fred Bauer Jr wrote: --> RV3-List message posted by: "Fred Bauer Jr" Larry W FYI, I notice from your pictures that you have the original style carb air inlet built into your lower cowl. It is the same inlet that our old RV4 had, the one that does not have an air cleaner. We have the lower cowl [new style] that will accept the air cleaner that Van's appears to favor, I saw this same inlet design on a new RV9. I have been thinking about installing a flat piece of stainless steel sheet with sound insulation between it and the ramp floor where the exhaust exits the engine compartment, much the same as the Piper Twin Comanche. I feel that aluminum does not like the corrosive exhaust gases and heat [it gets brittle] that is in that area. Also, it should quiet the noise from the exhaust, the Swearingen had such a piece installed in the exhaust exit ramp and I felt that it lowered the exhaust noise to more of a lower octave rumble. The Swearingen also had the individual exhaust pipes so I am leaning in that direction, Ed Swearingen knows engine compartments better than anyone. Do you get enough heat from the single cabin heat muff? We have 2 cabin heat muffs on the T-18 and we purchased 2 cabin heat boxes and expect to install 2 heat muffs on the RV3. The reason for the 2 heat muffs is that we purchased 2 canopy frames and will be building 2 separate canopies, one as a normal swingover bubble and the other as an open cockpit. Using the same piano hinge swingover attachment as the bubble. This might be fun, we don't know for sure but we feel that we won't want to cruise around at top speed with an open cockpit but during the summer or in warm climates we should be able to get the "wind in the face" feel that I enjoyed with the Baby Great Lakes biplane and that others enjoy with similar biplanes. I notice that the Odyssey battery comes in several versions, is the one you have been using working well or should we purchase the higher Amp one that they also offer? Regards, Fred ==================================== --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:59 AM PST US From: "Fred Bauer Jr" Subject: RV3-List: exhaust --> RV3-List message posted by: "Fred Bauer Jr" Thanks Rob, We will be ordering the 4 pipe Vetterman. Will send pictures and particulars when we get the stainless steel ramp in place. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "rob ray" Subject: Re: RV3-List: exhaust,battery,cabin heat > --> RV3-List message posted by: rob ray > > Fred, about my exhaust, I used a Vetterman 4 pipe system that has had absolutely no problems in 1100 hours, highly recommended....your Comanche sheet metal inside the cowl idea sounds cool, could you send me some specs on it? > > RR > > Fred Bauer Jr wrote: > --> RV3-List message posted by: "Fred Bauer Jr" > > Larry W > FYI, > I notice from your pictures that you have the original style carb air inlet built into your lower cowl. It is the same inlet that our old RV4 had, the one that does not have an air cleaner. We have the lower cowl [new style] that will accept the air cleaner that Van's appears to favor, I saw this same inlet design on a new RV9. > > I have been thinking about installing a flat piece of stainless steel sheet with sound insulation between it and the ramp floor where the exhaust exits the engine compartment, much the same as the Piper Twin Comanche. > I feel that aluminum does not like the corrosive exhaust gases and heat [it gets brittle] that is in that area. > Also, it should quiet the noise from the exhaust, the Swearingen had such a piece installed in the exhaust exit ramp and I felt that it lowered the exhaust noise to more of a lower octave rumble. > The Swearingen also had the individual exhaust pipes so I am leaning in that direction, Ed Swearingen knows engine compartments better than anyone. > > Do you get enough heat from the single cabin heat muff? > We have 2 cabin heat muffs on the T-18 and we purchased 2 cabin heat boxes and expect to install 2 heat muffs on the RV3. The reason for the 2 heat muffs is that we purchased 2 canopy frames and will be building 2 separate canopies, one as a normal swingover bubble and the other as an open cockpit. Using the same piano hinge swingover attachment as the bubble. > This might be fun, we don't know for sure but we feel that we won't want to cruise around at top speed with an open cockpit but during the summer or in warm climates we should be able to get the "wind in the face" feel that I enjoyed with the Baby Great Lakes biplane and that others enjoy with similar biplanes. > > I notice that the Odyssey battery comes in several versions, is the one you have been using working well or should we purchase the higher Amp one that they also offer? > Regards, > Fred > > > ==================================== > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:21 AM PST US From: "Fred Bauer Jr" Subject: RV3-List: exhaust,battery,cabin heat --> RV3-List message posted by: "Fred Bauer Jr" Thanks Rob, We are collecting all of this good input and will filter through it when we get to those building areas. It will be a little while until we can share with everyone how our ideas work but we will share them with all. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "rob ray" Subject: Re: RV3-List: exhaust,battery,cabin heat > --> RV3-List message posted by: rob ray > > Hi Fred, > > Lotsa questions so here goes...first the carb air intake was designed by me, a simple tunnel ram with a flapper valve to close it off and a 2" duct on top of it with a K&N filter attached to the duct. I normally close the flapper base-to-final and during ground ops. After 1100 hours it works fine, but I am considering a new design. I use a single heat muff but found while living in SD (I now live in FL) that it wasn't enough. A CO RV4 guy actually makes a nice dual muff but is hard to find. Try www.vansairforce.net and see if someone makes one on the RV yeller pages. One thing I did was to wrap a bedspring inside the muff as a heatsink and use a 1" scat inlet versus a 2" inlet. I think the 2" cooled the air in the muff too much and reduced the heat effectiveness. > I bought my Odyessy 680C battery from a battery vendor on the internet for $65 but Van now sells them for $69. It works great and I mounted it on my firewall to move CG forward and reduce weight from the original battery. Good Luck... > > Rob Ray > > Fred Bauer Jr wrote: > --> RV3-List message posted by: "Fred Bauer Jr" > > Larry W > FYI, > I notice from your pictures that you have the original style carb air inlet built into your lower cowl. It is the same inlet that our old RV4 had, the one that does not have an air cleaner. We have the lower cowl [new style] that will accept the air cleaner that Van's appears to favor, I saw this same inlet design on a new RV9. > > I have been thinking about installing a flat piece of stainless steel sheet with sound insulation between it and the ramp floor where the exhaust exits the engine compartment, much the same as the Piper Twin Comanche. > I feel that aluminum does not like the corrosive exhaust gases and heat [it gets brittle] that is in that area. > Also, it should quiet the noise from the exhaust, the Swearingen had such a piece installed in the exhaust exit ramp and I felt that it lowered the exhaust noise to more of a lower octave rumble. > The Swearingen also had the individual exhaust pipes so I am leaning in that direction, Ed Swearingen knows engine compartments better than anyone. > > Do you get enough heat from the single cabin heat muff? > We have 2 cabin heat muffs on the T-18 and we purchased 2 cabin heat boxes and expect to install 2 heat muffs on the RV3. The reason for the 2 heat muffs is that we purchased 2 canopy frames and will be building 2 separate canopies, one as a normal swingover bubble and the other as an open cockpit. Using the same piano hinge swingover attachment as the bubble. > This might be fun, we don't know for sure but we feel that we won't want to cruise around at top speed with an open cockpit but during the summer or in warm climates we should be able to get the "wind in the face" feel that I enjoyed with the Baby Great Lakes biplane and that others enjoy with similar biplanes. > > I notice that the Odyssey battery comes in several versions, is the one you have been using working well or should we purchase the higher Amp one that they also offer? > Regards, > Fred > > > ==================================== > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:05:17 PM PST US From: rob ray Subject: Re: RV3-List: exhaust,battery,cabin heat --> RV3-List message posted by: rob ray Fred; One of my friends just informed me that he installed some very thin stainless steel sheet to his RV8 belly skin under/above the exhaust pipes. He attached it with structural epoxy sans rivets with good results. On mine, I reverse-engineered your idea by installing a floorboard in the cockpit 2" above the belly skin with R8 fiberglass insulation inbetween. After discussing this issue with my RV Guru friend Arvil Porter, "next time" I would build my forward fuselage out of .040 all the way from the back seat (RV4) to the firewall and continue the firewall SS sheet underneath the belly back 8" as a doubler and stregthen the forward fuselage even more. Again this is 20/20 hindsight... Rob Ray Fred Bauer Jr wrote: --> RV3-List message posted by: "Fred Bauer Jr" Thanks Rob, We are collecting all of this good input and will filter through it when we get to those building areas. It will be a little while until we can share with everyone how our ideas work but we will share them with all. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "rob ray" Subject: Re: RV3-List: exhaust,battery,cabin heat > --> RV3-List message posted by: rob ray > > Hi Fred, > > Lotsa questions so here goes...first the carb air intake was designed by me, a simple tunnel ram with a flapper valve to close it off and a 2" duct on top of it with a K&N filter attached to the duct. I normally close the flapper base-to-final and during ground ops. After 1100 hours it works fine, but I am considering a new design. I use a single heat muff but found while living in SD (I now live in FL) that it wasn't enough. A CO RV4 guy actually makes a nice dual muff but is hard to find. Try www.vansairforce.net and see if someone makes one on the RV yeller pages. One thing I did was to wrap a bedspring inside the muff as a heatsink and use a 1" scat inlet versus a 2" inlet. I think the 2" cooled the air in the muff too much and reduced the heat effectiveness. > I bought my Odyessy 680C battery from a battery vendor on the internet for $65 but Van now sells them for $69. It works great and I mounted it on my firewall to move CG forward and reduce weight from the original battery. Good Luck... > > Rob Ray > > Fred Bauer Jr wrote: > --> RV3-List message posted by: "Fred Bauer Jr" > > Larry W > FYI, > I notice from your pictures that you have the original style carb air inlet built into your lower cowl. It is the same inlet that our old RV4 had, the one that does not have an air cleaner. We have the lower cowl [new style] that will accept the air cleaner that Van's appears to favor, I saw this same inlet design on a new RV9. > > I have been thinking about installing a flat piece of stainless steel sheet with sound insulation between it and the ramp floor where the exhaust exits the engine compartment, much the same as the Piper Twin Comanche. > I feel that aluminum does not like the corrosive exhaust gases and heat [it gets brittle] that is in that area. > Also, it should quiet the noise from the exhaust, the Swearingen had such a piece installed in the exhaust exit ramp and I felt that it lowered the exhaust noise to more of a lower octave rumble. > The Swearingen also had the individual exhaust pipes so I am leaning in that direction, Ed Swearingen knows engine compartments better than anyone. > > Do you get enough heat from the single cabin heat muff? > We have 2 cabin heat muffs on the T-18 and we purchased 2 cabin heat boxes and expect to install 2 heat muffs on the RV3. The reason for the 2 heat muffs is that we purchased 2 canopy frames and will be building 2 separate canopies, one as a normal swingover bubble and the other as an open cockpit. Using the same piano hinge swingover attachment as the bubble. > This might be fun, we don't know for sure but we feel that we won't want to cruise around at top speed with an open cockpit but during the summer or in warm climates we should be able to get the "wind in the face" feel that I enjoyed with the Baby Great Lakes biplane and that others enjoy with similar biplanes. > > I notice that the Odyssey battery comes in several versions, is the one you have been using working well or should we purchase the higher Amp one that they also offer? > Regards, > Fred > > > ==================================== > > > --------------------------------- > > --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:08:30 PM PST US From: Leesafur@aol.com Subject: RV3-List: leading edge skin --> RV3-List message posted by: Leesafur@aol.com OK I read reread and read the plans again but it doesn't say so hear goes. Do the leading edge skins have to be trimmed? when I position the skin on the reference line on the top of the spar flange and wrap the skin around the ribs it seems like I have a lot of skin. I would also entertain any ideas for skinning the wings. Thanks Lee Anoka MN RV-3 wing ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:42:39 PM PST US From: Jim Oke Subject: Re: RV3-List: leading edge skin --> RV3-List message posted by: Jim Oke Lee; It has been a long time since I skinned my RV-3 wings but more recently I have built a set of RV-6 wings. Both times, my impression was that the LE skins as supplied by Vans were very close to the final size and required no trimming other than draw-filing and polishing the cut edges for deburring purposes. IOW, I would suggest re-checking your reference line location and to also see how the aft skins fit to the structure before doing any trimming of the LE skins. A call or e-mail to Vans support would be advisable too. Jim Oke RV-3 C-FIZM RV-6A C-GKGA Wpg., MB ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV3-List: leading edge skin > --> RV3-List message posted by: Leesafur@aol.com > > OK I read reread and read the plans again but it doesn't say so hear goes. Do > the leading edge skins have to be trimmed? when I position the skin on the > reference line on the top of the spar flange and wrap the skin around the ribs > it seems like I have a lot of skin. I would also entertain any ideas for > skinning the wings. > > Thanks > > Lee > Anoka MN > RV-3 wing > >