Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:16 AM - What's Being Said... (Matt Dralle)
2. 06:56 AM - Re: Brake Lines (rob ray)
3. 08:13 AM - Re: Lasar Ignition Horror Story (rob ray)
4. 09:25 AM - Re: Lasar Ignition Horror Story (Bill Gunn)
5. 10:47 AM - Re: Brake Lines >> " I wish I built it that way to start with" (Steve Sampson)
6. 10:52 AM - Re: Brake Lines (RVFOURME@aol.com)
7. 12:01 PM - Re: Lasar Ignition Horror Story (Steve Sampson)
8. 12:52 PM - Re: Lasar Ignition Horror Story (Bill Gunn)
9. 04:20 PM - Re: Lasar Ignition Horror Story (rob ray)
10. 07:07 PM - Re: Brake Lines >> " I wish I built it that way to start with" (Dan Beadle)
11. 11:35 PM - Re: Brake Lines (Steve Sampson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | What's Being Said... |
--> RV4-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
First, I'd like say *thank you* to everyone that has already made a Contribution
during this year's List Fund Raiser! If you haven't made your List Contribution
yet, won't you show your support for these valuable services today? Since
there's no advertising or other forms of direct commercialism on these forums,
its solely YOUR GENEROSITY that keeps them running!!
Members have been including some very nice comments along with their Contributions
this year. Please take a minute to read over some of the thoughts your fellow
Listers have expressed regarding the Lists and what they mean to them. What
do the Lists mean to you...?
Please make a Contribution to support the Lists here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
==================== What Listers Are Saying ====================
...informative web site, great for us in the UK
to keep up to date.
-Malcolm H.
Have been using the "List" since 1995 and it has
really helped keep me flying.
-Deal F.
A great resource. It has help a great deal in
building.
-William R.
...a place to share and learn.
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...invaluable service to the community.
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Great service.
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The Lists reduce mistakes, wasted material/parts,
insomnia, bleeding (caused by heavy and prolonged
head-scratching). Don't start building without
them.
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resource for all who are building or thinking
about building!
-Ken B.
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read.
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flying much safer for me and my family.
-Lee P.
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Such a great tool and service to the Aviation
Community.
-William C.
==================== What Listers Are Saying ====================
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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--> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray <smokyray@yahoo.com>
MIke,
We followed the plans on my RV4 and utilized teflon plastic brake line throughout
my RV4 and like magic at 1000 hours (5 years) they began to leak. I removed
all of the teflon plastic and replaced with parker teflon lined braided stanless
steel line throughout. I bought it from a dealer who makes industrial line
so the entire change cost $74. I did have to go to their steel fittings everywhere
which was no big deal. The end result is painless leak free brake lines
that can handle abuse from chafing, heat and age.
This added one more thing to my RV4 " I wish I built it that way to start with"
list. That list now is long and has these items as well:
>Install Odessey battery on firewall and make forward baggage out of battery box.
>Install shelf of .016 between rear upper fuselage longerons behind rear baggage
door for light bulky baggage.
>Install RV6 fuel tanks during construction.
>Dish firewall for C/S prop
>Paint a/c before first flight (you'll procrastinate forever once it flies)
>Electronic Ignition, Landoll balancer, Catto or Hertzler prop. ( I would go with
an MT or Whirlwind C/S now)
>.020 tail feathers.
>Rudder Trim
>Rear seat heat
>Good ventilation from the gitgo.
>Keep it light (I did) 935#
You mileage may vary...good luck!
Rob Ray
>
Mike Kraus <n223rv@wolflakeairport.net> wrote:
--> RV4-List message posted by: "Mike Kraus"
I started with aluminum on my -4 then went to Summit Racing and
purchased steel braded brakes lines. They work excellent and I no
longer have to worry about them cracking....
-Mike
RV-4 Flying
RV-10 Building
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Sampson
Subject: RV4-List: Brake Lines
--> RV4-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
-->
Is everyone using the 44-NSR (plastic) brake lines per plans? Just
puzzling 'cos this is done in aluminium in later VANS designs. Is there
a reason why plastic on the -4?
Steve
RV4 Kit No.4478
RV-9A G-IINI (sold)
PA18-150 G-BVMI
---------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Lasar Ignition Horror Story |
--> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray <smokyray@yahoo.com>
Hi Steve,
The Jeff Rose Electroair Ignition holds the spark for 20 degree duration of the
crankshaft. A mag has a duration of 5 degrees rotation of the crank. The longer
spark keeps igniting the unburned fuel which is spinning atomized as it travels
by the spark plug. The longer spark therefore delivers better fuel efficiency
and a power increase, both factors I can verify with data. I also like the
fact the the ignition has a vacuum advance like a car unlike mags which are
welded at 25 BTDC. At altitudes above 8K I have seen 38-40 degrees advance further
increasing efficiency. It is also very, very smooth. There is no mag drop
when you switch off the mag. It simply "augments" the EI inflight now and adds
redundancy in case of failure.
. My system has 1000 hours and still works wonderfully, I simply change the 14mm
Denso automotive spark plugs every 100 hours, they only cost $1.25 each, it's
cheaper to replace them than clean them!
I don't recieve anything from electroair, I just like their system enough to give
it my blessing. Go to the website or call them, you will like it!
Rob Ray
www.electroair.net
Steve Sampson <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu> wrote:
--> RV4-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
Rob - an interesting and timely post for me.
Here in the UK the PFA (similar to your EAA) will only allow us one
electronic ignition...they are quite conservative. This leads me to wonder
what advantage you get (or how you get it ) from your Geoff Rose? Is it set
up so the electronic based spark goes off before the mechanical one? I had
thought that this was NOT how they were used because I noticed that the
P-mag folk lock their electronic ignition to the mechanical one and
according to their write up loose much of the advantage if I have understood
things correctly.
Thanks, Steve
RV4 Kit No.4478
RV-9A G-IINI (sold)
PA18-150 G-BVMI
----- Original Message -----
From: "rob ray"
Subject: RE: RV4-List: Lasar Ignition Horror Story
> --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray
>
> Help me Rhonda!...(I know you've never heard that)
> Sorry to hear of your adventures with Klaus' system. However, I would
> like to put in a plug for my current ignition, the Electroair designed by
> Jeff Rose. I have over 1000 safe hours on it now in my 0-320 powered RV4
> with greatly improved performance over jurrasic magnetos. I use one Bendix
> mag and Jeff's sending unit in the right mag hole. I use automotive spark
> plugs without adapters (Autolite 386) with no mag drop when the mag is
> switched off.
> Jeff sold the business to a guy in MI who took Jeffs' latest improved
> circuitry design and brought it to production. You can buy them new from
> Electroair, just like mine except better. Go to www.electroair.net and
> take a look, or call them at 248-666-3002.
>
> Don't downplay Electronic Ignitions until you see or try Jeff's design.
>
> Rob Ray
> RV4 1500 hours...
>
> onda@bpaengines.com> wrote:
> --> RV4-List message posted by: "Rhonda Bewley"
>
> I can't speak to the reliability or benefits of the E-Mag/P-Mag. We
> aren't against electronic ignition, if it works. Right now, we still
> favor traditional mags over any electronic ignition. Monty is very
> vocal (as some of you know) about his position on the existing
> electronic ignition systems.
>
> We spoke to the folks at E-Mag Air yesterday. Getting the system is the
> trick. They are currently producing a lot of 100 systems that are all
> sold. What I gathered from the conversation was if you are want a set of
> emags, you should order immediately for mid-December delivery. They did
> not give us a production date for the next lot except to say sometime in
> 2006.
>
> Rhonda Barrett-Bewley
> Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
> 2870-B N. Sheridan Rd.
> Tulsa, OK 74115
> (918) 835-1089 phone
> (918) 835-1754 fax
> www.barrettprecisionengines.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> lee.logan@gulfstream.com
> To: rv4-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV4-List: Lasar Ignition Horror Story
>
> --> RV4-List message posted by: lee.logan@gulfstream.com
>
> Is anyone flying P-Mags? Anything to report??
>
> Lee...
>
> Lee Logan
> Government Programs and Sales Support
> Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation
> Savannah, Georgia
>
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> **************************
>
> This e-mail message is for the sole use of intended recipient(s) and may
> contain confidential/proprietary information. Unauthorized review, use,
> disclosure, or distribution, is prohibited. If you are not the intended
> recipient, advise by e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
> message.
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> **************************
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System
> on behalf of the London Business School community.
> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Lasar Ignition Horror Story |
--> RV4-List message posted by: "Bill Gunn" <WGUNN@dot.state.tx.us>
I can second the comments on the Electroair system. I have 1300 hours on
mine, absolutely no problems & I get 163 KTAS on 7.5 GPH on a C/S 0-360
RV 4.
I might add the Auitolite 386 plugs are OK, however I had, as well as
three others I know of, cracked Autolite 386 plugs when used more than
100 hours. Use aircraft plugs or Nippon Denso W27ESR-U with adaptors
from Aircraft Spruce or change the 386 plus at least every 100 hours.
BG
>>> smokyray@yahoo.com 11/7/2005 10:13 AM >>>
--> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray <smokyray@yahoo.com>
Hi Steve,
The Jeff Rose Electroair Ignition holds the spark for 20 degree
duration of the crankshaft. A mag has a duration of 5 degrees rotation
of the crank. The longer spark keeps igniting the unburned fuel which is
spinning atomized as it travels by the spark plug. The longer spark
therefore delivers better fuel efficiency and a power increase, both
factors I can verify with data. I also like the fact the the ignition
has a vacuum advance like a car unlike mags which are welded at 25 BTDC.
At altitudes above 8K I have seen 38-40 degrees advance further
increasing efficiency. It is also very, very smooth. There is no mag
drop when you switch off the mag. It simply "augments" the EI inflight
now and adds redundancy in case of failure.
. My system has 1000 hours and still works wonderfully, I simply change
the 14mm Denso automotive spark plugs every 100 hours, they only cost
$1.25 each, it's cheaper to replace them than clean them!
I don't recieve anything from electroair, I just like their system
enough to give it my blessing. Go to the website or call them, you will
like it!
Rob Ray
www.electroair.net
Steve Sampson <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu> wrote:
--> RV4-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
Rob - an interesting and timely post for me.
Here in the UK the PFA (similar to your EAA) will only allow us one
electronic ignition...they are quite conservative. This leads me to
wonder
what advantage you get (or how you get it ) from your Geoff Rose? Is it
set
up so the electronic based spark goes off before the mechanical one? I
had
thought that this was NOT how they were used because I noticed that the
P-mag folk lock their electronic ignition to the mechanical one and
according to their write up loose much of the advantage if I have
understood
things correctly.
Thanks, Steve
RV4 Kit No.4478
RV-9A G-IINI (sold)
PA18-150 G-BVMI
----- Original Message -----
From: "rob ray"
Subject: RE: RV4-List: Lasar Ignition Horror Story
> --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray
>
> Help me Rhonda!...(I know you've never heard that)
> Sorry to hear of your adventures with Klaus' system. However, I would
> like to put in a plug for my current ignition, the Electroair
designed by
> Jeff Rose. I have over 1000 safe hours on it now in my 0-320 powered
RV4
> with greatly improved performance over jurrasic magnetos. I use one
Bendix
> mag and Jeff's sending unit in the right mag hole. I use automotive
spark
> plugs without adapters (Autolite 386) with no mag drop when the mag
is
> switched off.
> Jeff sold the business to a guy in MI who took Jeffs' latest improved
> circuitry design and brought it to production. You can buy them new
from
> Electroair, just like mine except better. Go to www.electroair.net
and
> take a look, or call them at 248-666-3002.
>
> Don't downplay Electronic Ignitions until you see or try Jeff's
design.
>
> Rob Ray
> RV4 1500 hours...
>
> onda@bpaengines.com> wrote:
> --> RV4-List message posted by: "Rhonda Bewley"
>
> I can't speak to the reliability or benefits of the E-Mag/P-Mag. We
> aren't against electronic ignition, if it works. Right now, we still
> favor traditional mags over any electronic ignition. Monty is very
> vocal (as some of you know) about his position on the existing
> electronic ignition systems.
>
> We spoke to the folks at E-Mag Air yesterday. Getting the system is
the
> trick. They are currently producing a lot of 100 systems that are
all
> sold. What I gathered from the conversation was if you are want a set
of
> emags, you should order immediately for mid-December delivery. They
did
> not give us a production date for the next lot except to say sometime
in
> 2006.
>
> Rhonda Barrett-Bewley
> Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
> 2870-B N. Sheridan Rd.
> Tulsa, OK 74115
> (918) 835-1089 phone
> (918) 835-1754 fax
> www.barrettprecisionengines.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> lee.logan@gulfstream.com
> To: rv4-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV4-List: Lasar Ignition Horror Story
>
> --> RV4-List message posted by: lee.logan@gulfstream.com
>
> Is anyone flying P-Mags? Anything to report??
>
> Lee...
>
> Lee Logan
> Government Programs and Sales Support
> Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation
> Savannah, Georgia
>
>
************************************************************************
>
************************************************************************
> **************************
>
> This e-mail message is for the sole use of intended recipient(s) and
may
> contain confidential/proprietary information. Unauthorized review,
use,
> disclosure, or distribution, is prohibited. If you are not the
intended
> recipient, advise by e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
> message.
>
************************************************************************
>
************************************************************************
> **************************
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System
> on behalf of the London Business School community.
> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Brake Lines >> " I wish I built it that way to start with" |
--> RV4-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Rob - how have you implemented a rudder trim. As a fixed or adjustable tab.
Also, anyone know if VANS have ever implemented an offset rudder on the -4
like on the _7 and -9?
Rear seat heat. have you fixed the problem. I was thinking of solving it
with an electric seat heater but have no idea of the current draw.
thanks, Steve.
----- Original Message -----
From: "rob ray" <smokyray@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: RV4-List: Brake Lines
> --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray <smokyray@yahoo.com>
>
> MIke,
> We followed the plans on my RV4 and utilized teflon plastic brake line
> throughout my RV4 and like magic at 1000 hours (5 years) they began to
> leak. I removed all of the teflon plastic and replaced with parker teflon
> lined braided stanless steel line throughout. I bought it from a dealer
> who makes industrial line so the entire change cost $74. I did have to go
> to their steel fittings everywhere which was no big deal. The end result
> is painless leak free brake lines that can handle abuse from chafing, heat
> and age.
> This added one more thing to my RV4 " I wish I built it that way to start
> with" list. That list now is long and has these items as well:
>
>>Install Odessey battery on firewall and make forward baggage out of
>>battery box.
>>Install shelf of .016 between rear upper fuselage longerons behind rear
>>baggage door for light bulky baggage.
>>Install RV6 fuel tanks during construction.
>>Dish firewall for C/S prop
>>Paint a/c before first flight (you'll procrastinate forever once it flies)
>>Electronic Ignition, Landoll balancer, Catto or Hertzler prop. ( I would
>>go with an MT or Whirlwind C/S now)
>>.020 tail feathers.
>>Rudder Trim
>>Rear seat heat
>>Good ventilation from the gitgo.
>>Keep it light (I did) 935#
>
> You mileage may vary...good luck!
>
> Rob Ray
>>
>
Message 6
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--> RV4-List message posted by: RVFOURME@aol.com
Steve: I chose to go the route of obtaining 3/16 inch stainless tubing for
my entire brake line run, from the slave cylinders to the firewall. Then
flexible lines from the firewall to the master cylinders. The 3/16 stainless
is
real easy to work with for routing purposes and is adequate diameter to pass
enough fluid for the braking needs...........and very strong. With two
rv-4's projects completed and one -10 coming up, 3/16 line is all I will ever
use for brakes. You will end up using -3 fittings on the lines. Hope this
helps. Personally, I can never trust my braking to plastic lines of any sort.
Fine
for low-pressure needs only.
Craig P
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Lasar Ignition Horror Story |
--> RV4-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Do you get any advantage at lower levels. In the UK with our Atlantic
climate (and airspace) keeps us down at 2 to 3000 feet.?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "rob ray" <smokyray@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV4-List: Lasar Ignition Horror Story
> --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray <smokyray@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Steve,
> The Jeff Rose Electroair Ignition holds the spark for 20 degree duration
> of the crankshaft. A mag has a duration of 5 degrees rotation of the
> crank. The longer spark keeps igniting the unburned fuel which is spinning
> atomized as it travels by the spark plug. The longer spark therefore
> delivers better fuel efficiency and a power increase, both factors I can
> verify with data. I also like the fact the the ignition has a vacuum
> advance like a car unlike mags which are welded at 25 BTDC. At altitudes
> above 8K I have seen 38-40 degrees advance further increasing efficiency.
> It is also very, very smooth. There is no mag drop when you switch off the
> mag. It simply "augments" the EI inflight now and adds redundancy in case
> of failure.
> . My system has 1000 hours and still works wonderfully, I simply change
> the 14mm Denso automotive spark plugs every 100 hours, they only cost
> $1.25 each, it's cheaper to replace them than clean them!
> I don't recieve anything from electroair, I just like their system enough
> to give it my blessing. Go to the website or call them, you will like it!
>
> Rob Ray
> www.electroair.net
>
>
> Steve Sampson <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu> wrote:
> --> RV4-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
>
> Rob - an interesting and timely post for me.
>
> Here in the UK the PFA (similar to your EAA) will only allow us one
> electronic ignition...they are quite conservative. This leads me to wonder
> what advantage you get (or how you get it ) from your Geoff Rose? Is it
> set
> up so the electronic based spark goes off before the mechanical one? I had
> thought that this was NOT how they were used because I noticed that the
> P-mag folk lock their electronic ignition to the mechanical one and
> according to their write up loose much of the advantage if I have
> understood
> things correctly.
>
> Thanks, Steve
> RV4 Kit No.4478
> RV-9A G-IINI (sold)
> PA18-150 G-BVMI
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rob ray"
> To:
> Subject: RE: RV4-List: Lasar Ignition Horror Story
>
>
>> --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray
>>
>> Help me Rhonda!...(I know you've never heard that)
>> Sorry to hear of your adventures with Klaus' system. However, I would
>> like to put in a plug for my current ignition, the Electroair designed by
>> Jeff Rose. I have over 1000 safe hours on it now in my 0-320 powered RV4
>> with greatly improved performance over jurrasic magnetos. I use one
>> Bendix
>> mag and Jeff's sending unit in the right mag hole. I use automotive spark
>> plugs without adapters (Autolite 386) with no mag drop when the mag is
>> switched off.
>> Jeff sold the business to a guy in MI who took Jeffs' latest improved
>> circuitry design and brought it to production. You can buy them new from
>> Electroair, just like mine except better. Go to www.electroair.net and
>> take a look, or call them at 248-666-3002.
>>
>> Don't downplay Electronic Ignitions until you see or try Jeff's design.
>>
>> Rob Ray
>> RV4 1500 hours...
>>
>> onda@bpaengines.com> wrote:
>> --> RV4-List message posted by: "Rhonda Bewley"
>>
>> I can't speak to the reliability or benefits of the E-Mag/P-Mag. We
>> aren't against electronic ignition, if it works. Right now, we still
>> favor traditional mags over any electronic ignition. Monty is very
>> vocal (as some of you know) about his position on the existing
>> electronic ignition systems.
>>
>> We spoke to the folks at E-Mag Air yesterday. Getting the system is the
>> trick. They are currently producing a lot of 100 systems that are all
>> sold. What I gathered from the conversation was if you are want a set of
>> emags, you should order immediately for mid-December delivery. They did
>> not give us a production date for the next lot except to say sometime in
>> 2006.
>>
>> Rhonda Barrett-Bewley
>> Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
>> 2870-B N. Sheridan Rd.
>> Tulsa, OK 74115
>> (918) 835-1089 phone
>> (918) 835-1754 fax
>> www.barrettprecisionengines.com
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> lee.logan@gulfstream.com
>> To: rv4-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV4-List: Lasar Ignition Horror Story
>>
>> --> RV4-List message posted by: lee.logan@gulfstream.com
>>
>> Is anyone flying P-Mags? Anything to report??
>>
>> Lee...
>>
>> Lee Logan
>> Government Programs and Sales Support
>> Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation
>> Savannah, Georgia
>>
>> ************************************************************************
>> ************************************************************************
>> **************************
>>
>> This e-mail message is for the sole use of intended recipient(s) and may
>> contain confidential/proprietary information. Unauthorized review, use,
>> disclosure, or distribution, is prohibited. If you are not the intended
>> recipient, advise by e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
>> message.
>> ************************************************************************
>> ************************************************************************
>> **************************
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>
>> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System
>> on behalf of the London Business School community.
>> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> --
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Lasar Ignition Horror Story |
--> RV4-List message posted by: "Bill Gunn" <WGUNN@dot.state.tx.us>
For me, no fuel consumption advantage at heights below approximately
8000 MSL , but easy starting, smooth running, no plug fouling under all
conditions. Bill Gunn, RV 4 (ex G-AWBM PFA Turbulent).
>>> SSampson.SLN21@london.edu 11/7/2005 1:00:06 PM >>>
--> RV4-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
<SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Do you get any advantage at lower levels. In the UK with our Atlantic
climate (and airspace) keeps us down at 2 to 3000 feet.?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "rob ray" <smokyray@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV4-List: Lasar Ignition Horror Story
> --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray <smokyray@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Steve,
> The Jeff Rose Electroair Ignition holds the spark for 20 degree
duration
> of the crankshaft. A mag has a duration of 5 degrees rotation of the
> crank. The longer spark keeps igniting the unburned fuel which is
spinning
> atomized as it travels by the spark plug. The longer spark therefore
> delivers better fuel efficiency and a power increase, both factors I
can
> verify with data. I also like the fact the the ignition has a vacuum
> advance like a car unlike mags which are welded at 25 BTDC. At
altitudes
> above 8K I have seen 38-40 degrees advance further increasing
efficiency.
> It is also very, very smooth. There is no mag drop when you switch
off the
> mag. It simply "augments" the EI inflight now and adds redundancy in
case
> of failure.
> . My system has 1000 hours and still works wonderfully, I simply
change
> the 14mm Denso automotive spark plugs every 100 hours, they only cost
> $1.25 each, it's cheaper to replace them than clean them!
> I don't recieve anything from electroair, I just like their system
enough
> to give it my blessing. Go to the website or call them, you will like
it!
>
> Rob Ray
> www.electroair.net
>
>
> Steve Sampson <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu> wrote:
> --> RV4-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
>
> Rob - an interesting and timely post for me.
>
> Here in the UK the PFA (similar to your EAA) will only allow us one
> electronic ignition...they are quite conservative. This leads me to
wonder
> what advantage you get (or how you get it ) from your Geoff Rose? Is
it
> set
> up so the electronic based spark goes off before the mechanical one?
I had
> thought that this was NOT how they were used because I noticed that
the
> P-mag folk lock their electronic ignition to the mechanical one and
> according to their write up loose much of the advantage if I have
> understood
> things correctly.
>
> Thanks, Steve
> RV4 Kit No.4478
> RV-9A G-IINI (sold)
> PA18-150 G-BVMI
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rob ray"
> To:
> Subject: RE: RV4-List: Lasar Ignition Horror Story
>
>
>> --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray
>>
>> Help me Rhonda!...(I know you've never heard that)
>> Sorry to hear of your adventures with Klaus' system. However, I
would
>> like to put in a plug for my current ignition, the Electroair
designed by
>> Jeff Rose. I have over 1000 safe hours on it now in my 0-320 powered
RV4
>> with greatly improved performance over jurrasic magnetos. I use one
>> Bendix
>> mag and Jeff's sending unit in the right mag hole. I use automotive
spark
>> plugs without adapters (Autolite 386) with no mag drop when the mag
is
>> switched off.
>> Jeff sold the business to a guy in MI who took Jeffs' latest
improved
>> circuitry design and brought it to production. You can buy them new
from
>> Electroair, just like mine except better. Go to www.electroair.net
and
>> take a look, or call them at 248-666-3002.
>>
>> Don't downplay Electronic Ignitions until you see or try Jeff's
design.
>>
>> Rob Ray
>> RV4 1500 hours...
>>
>> onda@bpaengines.com> wrote:
>> --> RV4-List message posted by: "Rhonda Bewley"
>>
>> I can't speak to the reliability or benefits of the E-Mag/P-Mag. We
>> aren't against electronic ignition, if it works. Right now, we
still
>> favor traditional mags over any electronic ignition. Monty is very
>> vocal (as some of you know) about his position on the existing
>> electronic ignition systems.
>>
>> We spoke to the folks at E-Mag Air yesterday. Getting the system is
the
>> trick. They are currently producing a lot of 100 systems that are
all
>> sold. What I gathered from the conversation was if you are want a
set of
>> emags, you should order immediately for mid-December delivery. They
did
>> not give us a production date for the next lot except to say
sometime in
>> 2006.
>>
>> Rhonda Barrett-Bewley
>> Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
>> 2870-B N. Sheridan Rd.
>> Tulsa, OK 74115
>> (918) 835-1089 phone
>> (918) 835-1754 fax
>> www.barrettprecisionengines.com
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> lee.logan@gulfstream.com
>> To: rv4-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV4-List: Lasar Ignition Horror Story
>>
>> --> RV4-List message posted by: lee.logan@gulfstream.com
>>
>> Is anyone flying P-Mags? Anything to report??
>>
>> Lee...
>>
>> Lee Logan
>> Government Programs and Sales Support
>> Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation
>> Savannah, Georgia
>>
>>
************************************************************************
>>
************************************************************************
>> **************************
>>
>> This e-mail message is for the sole use of intended recipient(s) and
may
>> contain confidential/proprietary information. Unauthorized review,
use,
>> disclosure, or distribution, is prohibited. If you are not the
intended
>> recipient, advise by e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
>> message.
>>
************************************************************************
>>
************************************************************************
>> **************************
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security
System
>> on behalf of the London Business School community.
>> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
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>>
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>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Lasar Ignition Horror Story |
--> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray <smokyray@yahoo.com>
Steve, You will like it, I promise.The limiting factor will be your magneto...
Rob Ray
Bill Gunn <WGUNN@dot.state.tx.us> wrote:
--> RV4-List message posted by: "Bill Gunn"
For me, no fuel consumption advantage at heights below approximately
8000 MSL , but easy starting, smooth running, no plug fouling under all
conditions. Bill Gunn, RV 4 (ex G-AWBM PFA Turbulent).
>>> SSampson.SLN21@london.edu 11/7/2005 1:00:06 PM >>>
--> RV4-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
Do you get any advantage at lower levels. In the UK with our Atlantic
climate (and airspace) keeps us down at 2 to 3000 feet.?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "rob ray"
Subject: Re: RV4-List: Lasar Ignition Horror Story
> --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray
>
> Hi Steve,
> The Jeff Rose Electroair Ignition holds the spark for 20 degree
duration
> of the crankshaft. A mag has a duration of 5 degrees rotation of the
> crank. The longer spark keeps igniting the unburned fuel which is
spinning
> atomized as it travels by the spark plug. The longer spark therefore
> delivers better fuel efficiency and a power increase, both factors I
can
> verify with data. I also like the fact the the ignition has a vacuum
> advance like a car unlike mags which are welded at 25 BTDC. At
altitudes
> above 8K I have seen 38-40 degrees advance further increasing
efficiency.
> It is also very, very smooth. There is no mag drop when you switch
off the
> mag. It simply "augments" the EI inflight now and adds redundancy in
case
> of failure.
> . My system has 1000 hours and still works wonderfully, I simply
change
> the 14mm Denso automotive spark plugs every 100 hours, they only cost
> $1.25 each, it's cheaper to replace them than clean them!
> I don't recieve anything from electroair, I just like their system
enough
> to give it my blessing. Go to the website or call them, you will like
it!
>
> Rob Ray
> www.electroair.net
>
>
> Steve Sampson wrote:
> --> RV4-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
>
> Rob - an interesting and timely post for me.
>
> Here in the UK the PFA (similar to your EAA) will only allow us one
> electronic ignition...they are quite conservative. This leads me to
wonder
> what advantage you get (or how you get it ) from your Geoff Rose? Is
it
> set
> up so the electronic based spark goes off before the mechanical one?
I had
> thought that this was NOT how they were used because I noticed that
the
> P-mag folk lock their electronic ignition to the mechanical one and
> according to their write up loose much of the advantage if I have
> understood
> things correctly.
>
> Thanks, Steve
> RV4 Kit No.4478
> RV-9A G-IINI (sold)
> PA18-150 G-BVMI
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rob ray"
> To:
> Subject: RE: RV4-List: Lasar Ignition Horror Story
>
>
>> --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray
>>
>> Help me Rhonda!...(I know you've never heard that)
>> Sorry to hear of your adventures with Klaus' system. However, I
would
>> like to put in a plug for my current ignition, the Electroair
designed by
>> Jeff Rose. I have over 1000 safe hours on it now in my 0-320 powered
RV4
>> with greatly improved performance over jurrasic magnetos. I use one
>> Bendix
>> mag and Jeff's sending unit in the right mag hole. I use automotive
spark
>> plugs without adapters (Autolite 386) with no mag drop when the mag
is
>> switched off.
>> Jeff sold the business to a guy in MI who took Jeffs' latest
improved
>> circuitry design and brought it to production. You can buy them new
from
>> Electroair, just like mine except better. Go to www.electroair.net
and
>> take a look, or call them at 248-666-3002.
>>
>> Don't downplay Electronic Ignitions until you see or try Jeff's
design.
>>
>> Rob Ray
>> RV4 1500 hours...
>>
>> onda@bpaengines.com> wrote:
>> --> RV4-List message posted by: "Rhonda Bewley"
>>
>> I can't speak to the reliability or benefits of the E-Mag/P-Mag. We
>> aren't against electronic ignition, if it works. Right now, we
still
>> favor traditional mags over any electronic ignition. Monty is very
>> vocal (as some of you know) about his position on the existing
>> electronic ignition systems.
>>
>> We spoke to the folks at E-Mag Air yesterday. Getting the system is
the
>> trick. They are currently producing a lot of 100 systems that are
all
>> sold. What I gathered from the conversation was if you are want a
set of
>> emags, you should order immediately for mid-December delivery. They
did
>> not give us a production date for the next lot except to say
sometime in
>> 2006.
>>
>> Rhonda Barrett-Bewley
>> Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
>> 2870-B N. Sheridan Rd.
>> Tulsa, OK 74115
>> (918) 835-1089 phone
>> (918) 835-1754 fax
>> www.barrettprecisionengines.com
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> lee.logan@gulfstream.com
>> To: rv4-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV4-List: Lasar Ignition Horror Story
>>
>> --> RV4-List message posted by: lee.logan@gulfstream.com
>>
>> Is anyone flying P-Mags? Anything to report??
>>
>> Lee...
>>
>> Lee Logan
>> Government Programs and Sales Support
>> Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation
>> Savannah, Georgia
>>
>>
************************************************************************
>>
************************************************************************
>> **************************
>>
>> This e-mail message is for the sole use of intended recipient(s) and
may
>> contain confidential/proprietary information. Unauthorized review,
use,
>> disclosure, or distribution, is prohibited. If you are not the
intended
>> recipient, advise by e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
>> message.
>>
************************************************************************
>>
************************************************************************
>> **************************
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security
System
>> on behalf of the London Business School community.
>> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System
> on behalf of the London Business School community.
> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>
---------------------------------
Message 10
| Subject: | Brake Lines >> " I wish I built it that way to start with" |
--> RV4-List message posted by: "Dan Beadle" <Dan.Beadle@hq.InclineSoftworks.com>
I don't know where you would get the heating elements, but I would guess
that 20-50 watts would do the job (probably the lower) (Think of sitting
on a 100W light bulb - not for long!). The efficiency of a heating
element is about 100% - all the current goes into heat either in the
element or the wiring going to the element. So at 14V, probably 2-5
Amp. Doesn't sound like a big draw.
Let me know if you can find an element. One industrial supplier is
Watlow. I integrated 12V heaters into vehicle equipment designed for
Alaska market. Don't know about small quantities, but their element
would do the job.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Sampson
Subject: Re: RV4-List: Brake Lines >> " I wish I built it that way to
start with"
--> RV4-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
<SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Rob - how have you implemented a rudder trim. As a fixed or adjustable
tab.
Also, anyone know if VANS have ever implemented an offset rudder on the
-4
like on the _7 and -9?
Rear seat heat. have you fixed the problem. I was thinking of solving it
with an electric seat heater but have no idea of the current draw.
thanks, Steve.
----- Original Message -----
From: "rob ray" <smokyray@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: RV4-List: Brake Lines
> --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray <smokyray@yahoo.com>
>
> MIke,
> We followed the plans on my RV4 and utilized teflon plastic brake
line
> throughout my RV4 and like magic at 1000 hours (5 years) they began to
> leak. I removed all of the teflon plastic and replaced with parker
teflon
> lined braided stanless steel line throughout. I bought it from a
dealer
> who makes industrial line so the entire change cost $74. I did have to
go
> to their steel fittings everywhere which was no big deal. The end
result
> is painless leak free brake lines that can handle abuse from chafing,
heat
> and age.
> This added one more thing to my RV4 " I wish I built it that way to
start
> with" list. That list now is long and has these items as well:
>
>>Install Odessey battery on firewall and make forward baggage out of
>>battery box.
>>Install shelf of .016 between rear upper fuselage longerons behind
rear
>>baggage door for light bulky baggage.
>>Install RV6 fuel tanks during construction.
>>Dish firewall for C/S prop
>>Paint a/c before first flight (you'll procrastinate forever once it
flies)
>>Electronic Ignition, Landoll balancer, Catto or Hertzler prop. ( I
would
>>go with an MT or Whirlwind C/S now)
>>.020 tail feathers.
>>Rudder Trim
>>Rear seat heat
>>Good ventilation from the gitgo.
>>Keep it light (I did) 935#
>
> You mileage may vary...good luck!
>
> Rob Ray
>>
>
Message 11
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--> RV4-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Thanks everyone for the input on brake lines. Not sure what I will do. It
lies well ahead yet. Steve.
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