Today's Message Index:
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1. 05:10 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Pump Mounting and OAT... (rob ray)
2. 11:39 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Pump Mounting and OAT... (Steve Sampson)
3. 06:10 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Pump Mounting and OAT... (Charlie England)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Mounting and OAT... |
--> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray <smokyray@yahoo.com>
Steve,
The insulation is against Heat from the Vetterman 4-pipes which despite being
in the slipstream are hot enough to peel paint. I have seen 2 RV4's with thin
stainless plate underneath the fuselage where the 4-pipes exit. I used a PPG
DGHS product for my exterior paint that resists heat up to 350 degrees and also
ceramic coated my exhaust pipes which helped alot. In the summer down south
(where I live) the front cockpit heat levels simply from the radiated heat from
the cowling is impressive. Trust me. I also put 2 vetterman push-out cool
air vents on the lower fuselage abeam my knees to cool the forward cockpit. Be
forewarned, it gets hot.
I used a NASCAR heat shield material that is fireproof, light and thin and I
put it on both sides of my firewall and under the floor back to the spar. I attached
it with silicone. I built a floorboard that rides 1" above the bottom
of the fuselage from the rudder pedals back to the spar as well.
The rear seat heat is a 1" scat tube routed through the front stick pushrod
hole and clamped where it can't interfere. Where it crosses through the hole I
made a smaller aluminum tube "scat" the 1" scat can connect to from either side.
No spar drilling or cutting needed. 1" is plenty and I also used 1" throughout
the heating system including the muff-heater and the baffle-scat-muff. 2"
is too big and cools the air too much reducing effectiveness. I also wrapped
a bedspring inside my heat muff as a heat sink. All of the above improvements
were put in AFTER the first 500 hours.
I mounted my oil cooler in front of the left front cyllinder mounted underneath
with a scoop above. Works great and cools better in the climb, something
you will spend alot of time doing if you do summer cross country in the SE USA.
Hope all this helps a bit....I'm off to fly my RV4 to work...see ya!
RR
--> RV4-List message posted by: "Bill Gunn"
See attached photo - the 12V computer cooling fan works great on hot
summer days with prolonged ground ops - otherwise I see 180 degrees on
all but the coldest days. This is 5 layers of metal to prevent cracking.
BG, RV 4
>>> SSampson.SLN21@london.edu 12/12/2005 1:03:53 PM >>>
--> RV4-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
Rob - you made an interesting post. You say " Put plenty of firewall
insulation under that floor while you're there as well, especially if
you
use a Vetterman 4 pipe." I am a bit puzzled here. Is this to keep you
feet
warm or cold? Is the heat coming through the firewall or is it just
radiated
heat coming of the exhaust pipe tails? I am puzzled because its mostly
fresh
air under your feet.
Re ".the back seat cutie" I have decided to solve this problem with
electric
seat inserts. I decided I just did not want to start cutting holes in
the
spar, especially when VANS were not prepared to say exacvtly where.
(Phlogiston said they were more than happy to cut the hole if VANS
would
just define where. They would not.) I just mention this for the sake of
other builders, since I spent ages trying to work out how to safely get
heat
back there.
Finally where did you put your oil cooler? On the back of the baffles
(LHS),
hanging from the tubes of the engine mount, or on the firewall? Do all
these
locations work equally well?
Thanks Steve.
#4478
----- Original Message -----
From: "rob ray"
Subject: RV4-List: Re: Fuel Pump Mounting and OAT...
> --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray
>
> Wally,
> I mounted my fuel pump as you suggest, for a level flight attitude,
1500
> hours ago...still works fine. While you're down there, hinge a door
over
> the battery compartment, buy an odessey battery and mount it out on
the
> firewall and turn that area into a forward baggage area.Save yourself
10
> pounds, have better cold starts and save some space as well. Forget a
> center console between your legs, adds weight, takes up space and is
> completely unnecessary. You might as well route a 1" scat to the
back
> seat through the stick well and have rear seat heat while you're
there as
> well, you'll wish you had it for your back seat cutie in the
winter.Make a
> nice diverter scat where the heater enters at the firewall and forget
> front seat heat, have it come out behind the front seat, much better.
> And....while you're back there, build up a set of rear seat
footwells,
> you'
> ll wish
> you did that too. OK, while you're there, might as well get some
decent
> stainless braided NAPA brake lines too. The plastic ones started
leaking
> after 5 years. Be sure to route a cooling scat to your avionics
too.Have
> several good fresh air vents too, I like the Vetterman "turn-out"
vents, 4
> is perfect for summer flying. Why do I babble about all this, that
is
> every change I made AFTER I started flying it.
> I bought a Wal Mart automotive OAT and put the sensor out one of
my
> fuel tank vent tube holes. If you use a standard aircraft OAT, I have
seen
> them mounted with the sender sticking through the inlet of a standard
Vans
> fresh air NACA duct. Really, you could put it anywhere above the
fuselage
> water line and get good results.
>
> Good Luck!
>
> Rob Ray
>
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> Total Messages Posted Sun 12/11/05: 1
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> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 06:40 PM - FACET FUEL PUMP AND OUTSIDE AIR TEMP QUESTIONS
> (RV4WGH@aol.com)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:40:48 PM PST US
> From: RV4WGH@aol.com
> Subject: RV4-List: FACET FUEL PUMP AND OUTSIDE AIR TEMP QUESTIONS
>
> --> RV4-List message posted by: RV4WGH@aol.com
>
> I am in the finishing kit stages of an RV-4 and have a couple of
> questions:
>
> 1) Facet fuel pump instructions say to mount the pump on a 45 degree
> angle.
> Knowing this pump is an automotive pump, is this also important in
an
> airplane? Seems like the pump will be at a 45 degree angle most of
the
> time in
> a
> tail dragger, at least for take-off. I had planned to mount it in a
manner
> that would make it level in normal flight.
>
> 2) Where is the suggested mounting location for the outside air temp
> sensor?
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
>
> Wally Hunt
> Rockford, IL
> RV-4 Finishing kit
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> --
> 09/12/2005
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Mounting and OAT... |
--> RV4-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Rob, I am glad I asked because your reply really surprises me. Thanks for a
very full answer.
The -9A I owned never seemed that hot around my feet and I dont see why this
is different, but there we go! I will take your advice and have a think
about heat insulation. Do I understand you aactually have 4 independant
pipes, not a cross over ending in 2? Either way that should not make it
hotter. I had also better think about how to protect the exterior in the
area of the exhaust. Having said that our typical temps are way below yours.
I spent a summer once in Huntsville and cooked!
I was flying my Supercub today, 28F outside and the heater full on just to
keep her in the back happy.
Thanks for the comments on how you got the heat into the back.
Best wishes, Steve.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Mounting and OAT... |
--> RV4-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Steve Sampson wrote:
>--> RV4-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>
>Rob - you made an interesting post. You say " Put plenty of firewall
>insulation under that floor while you're there as well, especially if you
>use a Vetterman 4 pipe." I am a bit puzzled here. Is this to keep you feet
>warm or cold? Is the heat coming through the firewall or is it just radiated
>heat coming of the exhaust pipe tails? I am puzzled because its mostly fresh
>air under your feet.
>
>
>snipped
>
>
>Thanks Steve.
>
Steve,
I've owned 2 -4's & both have had floors that get very hot under the
pilot's feet due to the exhaust. Uncomfortable even through the soles of
my shoes. Both planes have crossover exhausts. The current one has
down-turned exhaust tips & is even hotter than the 1st one was, so
relative wind must be turning the exhaust plume back up against the floor.
FWIW, YMMV, ETC,
Charlie
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