---------------------------------------------------------- RV4-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/01/06: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:27 AM - Canopy Taxi support ideas... (rob ray) 2. 11:31 PM - Official RV4-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 3. 11:33 PM - Official RV4-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:15 AM PST US From: rob ray Subject: RV4-List: Canopy Taxi support ideas... --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray Warren/Brian, Here is a link to the "correct" thread on the canopy/taxi position hold-up's with pictures. (mine is one of them...) Enjoy! RR http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=7921 RV4-List Digest Server wrote: * ================================================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================== Today's complete RV4-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the RV4-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv4-list/Digest.RV4-List.2006-05-31.html Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv4-list/Digest.RV4-List.2006-05-31.txt ================================================ EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================ ---------------------------------------------------------- RV4-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/31/06: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:28 AM - Treetop RV4... (rob ray) 2. 07:54 AM - Re: RV4 ventilation (Brian Vickers) 3. 11:43 AM - Re: RV4 ventilation (James Baldwin) 4. 12:04 PM - Re: RV4 ventilation (Brian Vickers) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:38 AM PST US From: rob ray Subject: RV4-List: Treetop RV4... --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray A friend sent me this...enjoy... RR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij1qWr99qLE __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:44 AM PST US From: "Brian Vickers" Subject: RE: RV4-List: RV4 ventilation --> RV4-List message posted by: "Brian Vickers" Thanks for your response. Yesterday I ordered the Vetterman pop-out vents. Like Larry the Cable TV Repairman says, "Time to get er' done!" Thanks again. By the way, I just viewed that tree top video. That is a University of Washington Husky emblem/logo on the back of his hat. I suspect he was flying along one of the many rivers here in Washington. Interesting. Sincerely, Brian Vickers -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rob ray Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 1:32 PM Subject: RE: RV4-List: RV4 ventilation --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray Brian, All of the previous suggestions work, I have one of each! Over the years I have tried everything including bypassing my heat muff and running baffle air into the cockpit. Works fine above 5K but hot down low. Here is what worked and improved what I had... An aeronautical engineer looked at my airplane and told me the two lowest pressure and highest pressure areas, the canopy rail and right in front of the leading edge of the wing being very low. The bottom of the rear part of the cowl cheek, fuselage sides above the landing gear and under the wing, being very high. So, I installed and really like two of Larry Vettermans pop-out round vents, one right above the throttle quadrant and the other in front of the back seat on the fuselage 8" below the canopy rail. I also have three NACA scoops, one on the front lower left fuselage which like Warren's works well. I also installed two on the canopy rail before I knew better. One thing that helped both of them was placing VG's in front of them, 50% improvement in airflow. Hey, I live where it is hot year-round! However, the absolute best modification was drilling holes around my baggage door bulkhead to allow the air to draft out the rear fuselage. "Sucking the air out" of the cockpit is not a new idea, look at Christen Eagles. They have reverse NACA scoops. Rear seat passengers tell me they can lay their hands over the holes and feel the suction at cruise speed. The aft part of the canopy is very high pressure and a rear facing vent on the lower part of the back of the canopy fairing on one RV4 reported very good airflow into the cockpit. He said he got the idea off a T-18. He had a choke cable to open and close the small door. Another simple fix to summer heat is to use the RV4's superior performance and fly above 5K if you go anywhere. For some great ideas of the canopy taxi position hold-back devices, go to Doug Reeves website http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=7769&page=1&pp=10 You will find alot of great pictures of canopy taxi positions installations (including mine)... Good Luck! RR "Moore, Warren" wrote: --> RV4-List message posted by: "Moore, Warren" Brian, I put a naca vent (from Van's) on the right side of the fuse. as far forward as possible and just under the cowl cheek. ran a scat tube to the lower right side of the instrument panel to an alum. vent....it works just ok. Also installed a naca vent on the underside of the the right wing, (like on the RV8's) to a scat tube, to a large 3" vent mounted just forward of the rear stick, for the rear passenger.....works great! also put a tee in the rear vent scat tube and ran a 1-1/4 in scat tube to the front seat (thur the wing spar where the plans show a routing for rear seat heat (I have no rear seat heat). to a small vent mounted down low by the fuel selector. When flying solo, I can reach back, close the rear seat vent and open the front one full, just works great! Still get a lot of air in front and back when both are open. I working now on a way to hold my canopy open about 3 inches for taxi....don't care how many vents you have, on ground its just hot under a bubble canopy. Warren Moore rv4 n223wm, 35 hrs. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Vickers [mailto:brianvic@msn.com] Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 10:27 AM Subject: RV4-List: RV4 ventilation --> RV4-List message posted by: "Brian Vickers" Hi all, I am procrastinating over installation of cockpit ventilation. I walk the rows of completed RV4's at fly-ins, etc. and see many different configurations for getting air into the cockpit. Everything from holes in the wing root fairings, NACA inlets placed nearly everywhere, to pop-outs. Does anyone out there have a system that has worked well for them? I'm also interested in designs and inlet locations that don't work. I am building a very simple, light weight manual bird. Thanks for your help in advance. Very sincerely, Brian N. Vickers, MAI RPA Real Property Analysis, LLC P.O. Box 11790 Bainbridge Island, WA 98110 Ph 206-780-9814 Fx 206-842-2496 --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:43:30 AM PST US From: James Baldwin Subject: Re: RV4-List: RV4 ventilation --> RV4-List message posted by: James Baldwin Brian - Where did you order the vents from? Thx. JBB Brian Vickers wrote: > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Brian Vickers" > > Thanks for your response. Yesterday I ordered the Vetterman pop-out vents. > Like Larry the Cable TV Repairman says, "Time to get er' done!" Thanks > again. By the way, I just viewed that tree top video. That is a University > of Washington Husky emblem/logo on the back of his hat. I suspect he was > flying along one of the many rivers here in Washington. Interesting. > > Sincerely, Brian Vickers > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rob ray > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 1:32 PM > To: rv4-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV4-List: RV4 ventilation > > --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray > > Brian, > > All of the previous suggestions work, I have one of each! Over the years > I have tried everything including bypassing my heat muff and running baffle > air into the cockpit. Works fine above 5K but hot down low. Here is what > worked and improved what I had... > An aeronautical engineer looked at my airplane and told me the two > lowest pressure and highest pressure areas, the canopy rail and right in > front of the leading edge of the wing being very low. The bottom of the rear > part of the cowl cheek, fuselage sides above the landing gear and under the > wing, being very high. So, I installed and really like two of Larry > Vettermans pop-out round vents, one right above the throttle quadrant and > the other in front of the back seat on the fuselage 8" below the canopy > rail. I also have three NACA scoops, one on the front lower left fuselage > which like Warren's works well. I also installed two on the canopy rail > before I knew better. One thing that helped both of them was placing VG's in > front of them, 50% improvement in airflow. Hey, I live where it is hot > year-round! > However, the absolute best modification was drilling holes around my > baggage door bulkhead to allow the air to draft out the rear fuselage. > "Sucking the air out" of the cockpit is not a new idea, look at Christen > Eagles. They have reverse NACA scoops. Rear seat passengers tell me they can > lay their hands over the holes and feel the suction at cruise speed. > The aft part of the canopy is very high pressure and a rear facing vent > on the lower part of the back of the canopy fairing on one RV4 reported very > good airflow into the cockpit. He said he got the idea off a T-18. He had a > choke cable to open and close the small door. > Another simple fix to summer heat is to use the RV4's superior > performance and fly above 5K if you go anywhere. > > For some great ideas of the canopy taxi position hold-back devices, go to > Doug Reeves website > http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=7769&page=1&pp=10 > You will find alot of great pictures of canopy taxi positions > installations (including mine)... > > Good Luck! > > RR > > "Moore, Warren" wrote: > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Moore, Warren" > > Brian, I put a naca vent (from Van's) on the right side of the fuse. as far > forward as possible and just under the cowl cheek. ran a scat tube to the > lower right side of the instrument panel to an alum. vent....it works just > ok. Also installed a naca vent on the underside of the the right wing, > (like on the RV8's) to a scat tube, to a large 3" vent mounted just forward > of the rear stick, for the rear passenger.....works great! also put a tee > in the rear vent scat tube and ran a 1-1/4 in scat tube to the front seat > (thur the wing spar where the plans show a routing for rear seat heat (I > have no rear seat heat). to a small vent mounted down low by the fuel > selector. When flying solo, I can reach back, close the rear seat vent and > open the front one full, just works great! Still get a lot of air in front > and back when both are open. > > I working now on a way to hold my canopy open about 3 inches for > taxi....don't care how many vents you have, on ground its just hot under a > bubble canopy. > > Warren Moore > rv4 n223wm, 35 hrs. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Vickers [mailto:brianvic@msn.com] > Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 10:27 AM > To: rv4-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV4-List: RV4 ventilation > > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Brian Vickers" > > > Hi all, > > I am procrastinating over installation of cockpit ventilation. I walk the > rows of completed RV4's at fly-ins, etc. and see many different > configurations for getting air into the cockpit. Everything from holes in > the wing root fairings, NACA inlets placed nearly everywhere, to pop-outs. > Does anyone out there have a system that has worked well for them? I'm also > interested in designs and inlet locations that don't work. I am building a > very simple, light weight manual bird. Thanks for your help in advance. > Very sincerely, > > > Brian N. Vickers, MAI > > RPA > > Real Property Analysis, LLC > > P.O. Box 11790 > > Bainbridge Island, WA 98110 > > Ph 206-780-9814 > > Fx 206-842-2496 > > > > --------------------------------- > Blab-away for as little as 1/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! > Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:39 PM PST US From: "Brian Vickers" Subject: RE: RV4-List: RV4 ventilation --> RV4-List message posted by: "Brian Vickers" Van's; see below the web address to the catalog page at the van's web-site. It's in the catalog section: "Cockpit Heating and Ventilation Options." Only $18.00 for two vents. http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1149101865-246-429&bro wse=heatvent&product=10vent_kit -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Baldwin Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 11:43 AM Subject: Re: RV4-List: RV4 ventilation --> RV4-List message posted by: James Baldwin Brian - Where did you order the vents from? Thx. JBB Brian Vickers wrote: > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Brian Vickers" > > Thanks for your response. Yesterday I ordered the Vetterman pop-out vents. > Like Larry the Cable TV Repairman says, "Time to get er' done!" Thanks > again. By the way, I just viewed that tree top video. That is a University > of Washington Husky emblem/logo on the back of his hat. I suspect he was > flying along one of the many rivers here in Washington. Interesting. > > Sincerely, Brian Vickers > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv4-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rob ray > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 1:32 PM > To: rv4-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV4-List: RV4 ventilation > > --> RV4-List message posted by: rob ray > > Brian, > > All of the previous suggestions work, I have one of each! Over the years > I have tried everything including bypassing my heat muff and running baffle > air into the cockpit. Works fine above 5K but hot down low. Here is what > worked and improved what I had... > An aeronautical engineer looked at my airplane and told me the two > lowest pressure and highest pressure areas, the canopy rail and right in > front of the leading edge of the wing being very low. The bottom of the rear > part of the cowl cheek, fuselage sides above the landing gear and under the > wing, being very high. So, I installed and really like two of Larry > Vettermans pop-out round vents, one right above the throttle quadrant and > the other in front of the back seat on the fuselage 8" below the canopy > rail. I also have three NACA scoops, one on the front lower left fuselage > which like Warren's works well. I also installed two on the canopy rail > before I knew better. One thing that helped both of them was placing VG's in > front of them, 50% improvement in airflow. Hey, I live where it is hot > year-round! > However, the absolute best modification was drilling holes around my > baggage door bulkhead to allow the air to draft out the rear fuselage. > "Sucking the air out" of the cockpit is not a new idea, look at Christen > Eagles. They have reverse NACA scoops. Rear seat passengers tell me they can > lay their hands over the holes and feel the suction at cruise speed. > The aft part of the canopy is very high pressure and a rear facing vent > on the lower part of the back of the canopy fairing on one RV4 reported very > good airflow into the cockpit. He said he got the idea off a T-18. He had a > choke cable to open and close the small door. > Another simple fix to summer heat is to use the RV4's superior > performance and fly above 5K if you go anywhere. > > For some great ideas of the canopy taxi position hold-back devices, go to > Doug Reeves website > http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=7769&page=1&pp=10 > You will find alot of great pictures of canopy taxi positions > installations (including mine)... > > Good Luck! > > RR > > "Moore, Warren" wrote: > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Moore, Warren" > > Brian, I put a naca vent (from Van's) on the right side of the fuse. as far > forward as possible and just under the cowl cheek. ran a scat tube to the > lower right side of the instrument panel to an alum. vent....it works just > ok. Also installed a naca vent on the underside of the the right wing, > (like on the RV8's) to a scat tube, to a large 3" vent mounted just forward > of the rear stick, for the rear passenger.....works great! also put a tee > in the rear vent scat tube and ran a 1-1/4 in scat tube to the front seat > (thur the wing spar where the plans show a routing for rear seat heat (I > have no rear seat heat). to a small vent mounted down low by the fuel > selector. When flying solo, I can reach back, close the rear seat vent and > open the front one full, just works great! Still get a lot of air in front > and back when both are open. > > I working now on a way to hold my canopy open about 3 inches for > taxi....don't care how many vents you have, on ground its just hot under a > bubble canopy. > > Warren Moore > rv4 n223wm, 35 hrs. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Vickers [mailto:brianvic@msn.com] > Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 10:27 AM > To: rv4-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV4-List: RV4 ventilation > > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Brian Vickers" > > > Hi all, > > I am procrastinating over installation of cockpit ventilation. I walk the > rows of completed RV4's at fly-ins, etc. and see many different > configurations for getting air into the cockpit. Everything from holes in > the wing root fairings, NACA inlets placed nearly everywhere, to pop-outs. > Does anyone out there have a system that has worked well for them? I'm also > interested in designs and inlet locations that don't work. I am building a > very simple, light weight manual bird. Thanks for your help in advance. > Very sincerely, > > > Brian N. Vickers, MAI > > RPA > > Real Property Analysis, LLC > > P.O. Box 11790 > > Bainbridge Island, WA 98110 > > Ph 206-780-9814 > > Fx 206-842-2496 > > > > --------------------------------- > Blab-away for as little as 1/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! > Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:31:57 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV4-List: Official RV4-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) --> RV4-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Please read over the RV4-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. 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With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?RV4 ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** RV4-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV4-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the RV4-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. RV4-List Policy Statement The purpose of the RV4-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:33:18 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV4-List: Official RV4-List Usage Guidelines --> RV4-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Please read over the RV4-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete RV4-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV4-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** RV4-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV4-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the RV4-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. RV4-List Policy Statement The purpose of the RV4-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.]