Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:43 AM - Re: Alternative Primers (Dr. Kevin P. Leathers)
2. 09:36 AM - Re: Alternative Primers (Mike Divan)
3. 10:00 AM - Re: Alternative Primers (Frank Lanier)
4. 01:39 PM - SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - ALODINE (Francis, David CMDR)
5. 03:34 PM - nibbling for the landing lights (John Burns)
6. 03:50 PM - Re: nibbling for the landing lights (Scott Bilinski)
7. 04:04 PM - Re: nibbling for the landing lights (Ross Schlotthauer)
8. 04:43 PM - Priming (Scott Trask)
9. 10:09 PM - Washers (Cliff Lotter)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Alternative Primers |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
What a mess. DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brooks Wolfe" <slipstream13@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: RV7-List: Alternative Primers
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Brooks Wolfe"
<slipstream13@earthlink.net>
>
> I'm very interested in your take on the primer thing.. I'm doing the
wings,
> and growing weary of the extra time, money, and weight that the primer is
> adding to my structures. I have no experience with alodine, and am
> interested in trying it.=0D
> =0D
> Brooks Wolfe=0D
> Colorado Springs
>
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> m/HH4QnwR5gnYOb0XjbrWzAA57T6f8Of/9k
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Alternative Primers |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Mike Divan <mike1qc@yahoo.com>
Tried both AFS and AKZO on a trash can and decided I liked the AKZO better. I
wrote the makers of the AKZO and asked them what they recomended to prep the aluminum.
There answer is below. What works for me is clean with the AFS cleaner
echer and a scotch brite pad, clean with acetone then spray the AKZO.
"The simplest way to prep the aluminum is to wet abrade with scotch brite and water,
followed by solvent cleaning with acetone, or MEK, or toluene. The alternative
is alumiprep 33 acid plus alodine 1201 conversion coating. This is not
preferred because of the hazardous chromates in alodine.
In either case, before priming, it is essential to remove the thin oxide layer
that forms on aluminum. Scotch brite or acid etch will accomplish this.
Good luck.
John Griffin
Sales Manager
Akzo Nobel Aerospace Coatings
john.griffin@wau.akzonobel.com
PH: 502-721-8109
Fax: 502-721-8043
Mobile: 847-612-5157
Mike Divan
RV-7A
(Building Empennage)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Alternative Primers |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Frank Lanier" <flanier@microsoft.com>
Just to throw in my two cents ... I've used the AKZO primer for both the
tail and wings and really like it. I use alumiprep and a scotch brite
pad to get the surfaces ready and then prime. It gives a really hard
durable coating and dries relatively fast.
As others have said, priming is a matter of taste and finding what works
for you. Just make sure you follow the proper procedures for the primer
you choose to use and you'll be OK.
Frank Lanier
Sloooowly working on the wings
Maple Valley, WA
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Divan [mailto:mike1qc@yahoo.com]
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Alternative Primers
--> RV7-List message posted by: Mike Divan <mike1qc@yahoo.com>
Tried both AFS and AKZO on a trash can and decided I liked the AKZO
better. I wrote the makers of the AKZO and asked them what they
recomended to prep the aluminum. There answer is below. What works for
me is clean with the AFS cleaner echer and a scotch brite pad, clean
with acetone then spray the AKZO.
"The simplest way to prep the aluminum is to wet abrade with scotch
brite and water, followed by solvent cleaning with acetone, or MEK, or
toluene. The alternative is alumiprep 33 acid plus alodine 1201
conversion coating. This is not preferred because of the hazardous
chromates in alodine.
In either case, before priming, it is essential to remove the thin oxide
layer that forms on aluminum. Scotch brite or acid etch will accomplish
this.
Good luck.
John Griffin
Sales Manager
Akzo Nobel Aerospace Coatings
john.griffin@wau.akzonobel.com
PH: 502-721-8109
Fax: 502-721-8043
Mobile: 847-612-5157
Mike Divan
RV-7A
(Building Empennage)
Message 4
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|
| Subject: | SEC: UNCLASSIFIED - ALODINE |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
Brooks,
There is much written on alodine, see Sam Buchanans site. My personal
assessment of alodine follows:
Prodedure:
1. prelim clean with methylated spirits to remove oil and ink. If
particularly dirty also clean with Dawn dishwashing fluid.
2. Soak in alumiprep 33 until frothing intensely. If you see a black
deposit on edges and in holes you have overdone it.
3. Rinse in clean water.
4. Immerse in an alodine bath till golden, takes about 60 seconds,
occasionally longer.
5. Wash in water to stop the process, recover the alodine for further
use.
General comments:
Alodine is toxic, so I always wear gloves.
I tried spraying it with poor results, and it needs a respirator for
spraying, but not a bath.
A bath gives the best results, but for skins and long items I just put it on
saw horses, and wipe on gently with a saturated cloth.
I do not scuff alclad skins which will not be painted (eg inside wings).
They are protected by the alclad, the aim of alodining is to conversion coat
all holes and cut edges.
I do scuff ribs, they are tortured by the manufacturing process and have
some embedded oils, so clean them well.
I recover the alodine into the original bottles after use. Keep the lid on
tight to avoid evaporation. Alodine loses effect after lots of use, so I
replace it. 2 gallons did my wings.
Alodine is very soft for the first 30 minutes. When cured it is more
sensitive to scratches than a good 2 part primer.
Alodine provides good corrosion protection, is toxic, but adds no weight, is
more economical than primer, has no overspray and water cleanup. With
minimal scuffing required, the labour is much less than spray painting.
For my exterior I will be using primer and topcoat, applied by a
professional.
Have fun. David Francis, VH-ZEE.
Email: David.Francis@defence.gov.au <mailto:David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
-----Original Message-----
From: Brooks Wolfe [mailto:slipstream13@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 January 2003 17:10
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV7-List: Alternative Primers
* > RV7-List message posted by: "Brooks Wolfe"
<slipstream13@earthlink.net <mailto:slipstream13@earthlink.net> >
I'm very interested in your take on the primer thing.. I'm
doing the wings,
and growing weary of the extra time, money, and weight that
the primer is
adding to my structures. I have no experience with alodine,
and am
interested in trying it.
Brooks Wolfe
Message 5
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|
| Subject: | nibbling for the landing lights |
--> RV7-List message posted by: John Burns <jgburns@comcast.net>
I purchased a cheap air nibbler and experimented on scrap. There were significant
scratches on both sides of the cut, so I braced the material on all sides
and repeated. Same problem.
Aircraft Spruce has a hand nibbler for about $16. Does anyone have experience
with their tool? If so, did it work well?
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: nibbling for the landing lights |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@qcpi.com>
Try lining the area with tape.
At 04:32 PM 1/8/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> RV7-List message posted by: John Burns <jgburns@comcast.net>
>
>I purchased a cheap air nibbler and experimented on scrap. There were
>significant scratches on both sides of the cut, so I braced the material on
>all sides and repeated. Same problem.
>
>Aircraft Spruce has a hand nibbler for about $16. Does anyone have
>experience with their tool? If so, did it work well?
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 8220
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: nibbling for the landing lights |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer@yahoo.com>
Fellas,
I used a die grinder with a cutoff wheel, sanding
drums and small scotchbrite wheel. Beautiful results
in each wing.
Ross Schlotthauer
RV7 Fuse
--- Scott Bilinski <bilinski@qcpi.com> wrote:
> --> RV7-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
> <bilinski@qcpi.com>
>
> Try lining the area with tape.
>
> At 04:32 PM 1/8/03 -0700, you wrote:
> >--> RV7-List message posted by: John Burns
> <jgburns@comcast.net>
> >
> >I purchased a cheap air nibbler and experimented on
> scrap. There were
> >significant scratches on both sides of the cut, so
> I braced the material on
> >all sides and repeated. Same problem.
> >
> >Aircraft Spruce has a hand nibbler for about $16.
> Does anyone have
> >experience with their tool? If so, did it work
> well?
> >
> >
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 8220
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
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>
>
Message 8
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--> RV7-List message posted by: Scott Trask <sctrask@diisd.org>
Priming fiber glass to paint. What would are you guys going to use? or can
you just paint it?
Scott Trask working on fuselage
Message 9
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus@gds.co.za>
How do I identify the different AN washers supplied as most of them are in the
same bags?
Cliff Lotter
South Africa
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