Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:11 AM - Re: Landing Light Question (Peter Krok)
2. 08:45 AM - Tank dimple Question (Richard Tasker)
3. 10:01 AM - Re: Tank dimple Question (Dana Overall)
4. 10:46 AM - Re: Tank dimple Question (Scott Bilinski)
5. 01:58 PM - SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question (Francis, David CMDR)
6. 02:23 PM - Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question (Dan Checkoway)
7. 05:47 PM - Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question (Dana Overall)
8. 07:44 PM - Re: Tank dimple Question (Burton Loewen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: Landing Light Question |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Peter Krok" <pkrok@eee.org>
Check out the following site if you want to go ahead with wing tip
lighting. In other parts of Randy Pflanzer's site he gives a better
description and cost of the light kit he purchased (about 100 dollars).
His photos of the project are A1.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/Wings3.html#Wing%20Tip%20Electric
al%20Stuff
...go to his F1 Project "wing tip electrical stuff"
Randy, if you are out there...thanks. Although I already went for the
Duckworks system and have the lights installed, I would have been
tempted by the wing tip kit. I don't think I'll ever go for the wing
tip tanks...my internal tank is not that large...something to do with
age, I think :(
Anyway, have a good day!
Pete Krok
RV-7A Wings
Redlands CA
Message 2
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| Subject: | Tank dimple Question |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your opinions of
tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies.
I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple to
compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses the regular
dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an objectional
amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that?
Thanks,
Dick Tasker
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Tank dimple Question |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Richard,
Sam has a great discussion posted on his website about the differences
between tank dies and regular 3/32 dies. I now use the tank dies on any
substructure, ribs, spars, stiffiners etc. where a regular 3/32 skin dimple
will reside. The tank die dimples allow the skin dimple don't with a
standard 3/32 die to sit deeper and makes for a much flusher rivet head on
the skin. I tank dimpled the ribs, and skin, on the tank and it does make a
difference. Be sure and countersink your skin to baffle joint, with the
baffle clecoed on, just a little deeper than you would for a regular an3
rivet head to make up for the gap seal of the proseal.
To answer your question rather bluntly, the tank dies do compensate for the
proseal better than the standard 3/32 dies.
You only course of action if the flush heads are sticking up so that your
finger nail catches on them is to use a rivet cutting on each and every
rivet head.........much easier to just tank dimple them to begin with. I'm
not saying standard dies don't work, the tank dies are just made for this
purpose. You will find the substructure use an added benefit.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
>From: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>Reply-To: rv7-list@matronics.com
>To: rv9-list@matronics.com, rv7-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:45:14 -0500
>
>--> RV7-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>
>I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your opinions of
>tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies.
>
>I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple to
>compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses the regular
>dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an objectional
>amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dick Tasker
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Tank dimple Question |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@qcpi.com>
Tank dimple dies???? Never heard of them. Of well to late now.
At 12:57 PM 1/29/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
>Richard,
>
>Sam has a great discussion posted on his website about the differences
>between tank dies and regular 3/32 dies. I now use the tank dies on any
>substructure, ribs, spars, stiffiners etc. where a regular 3/32 skin dimple
>will reside. The tank die dimples allow the skin dimple don't with a
>standard 3/32 die to sit deeper and makes for a much flusher rivet head on
>the skin. I tank dimpled the ribs, and skin, on the tank and it does make a
>difference. Be sure and countersink your skin to baffle joint, with the
>baffle clecoed on, just a little deeper than you would for a regular an3
>rivet head to make up for the gap seal of the proseal.
>
>To answer your question rather bluntly, the tank dies do compensate for the
>proseal better than the standard 3/32 dies.
>
>You only course of action if the flush heads are sticking up so that your
>finger nail catches on them is to use a rivet cutting on each and every
>rivet head.........much easier to just tank dimple them to begin with. I'm
>not saying standard dies don't work, the tank dies are just made for this
>purpose. You will find the substructure use an added benefit.
>
>
>Dana Overall
>Richmond, KY
>http://rvflying.tripod.com
>do not archive
>
>
>>From: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>>Reply-To: rv7-list@matronics.com
>>To: rv9-list@matronics.com, rv7-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
>>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:45:14 -0500
>>
>>--> RV7-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>>
>>I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your opinions of
>>tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies.
>>
>>I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple to
>>compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses the regular
>>dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an objectional
>>amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Dick Tasker
>>
>>
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 8220
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 5
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| Subject: | SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
Dick,
The quality of the dimpling determines the quality of the riveting. The
thicker the skins the less amenable they are to being formed into a dimple.
You will see in Vans riveting instructions (for non-tank riveting) a
suggestion to dimple then lightly shamfer the dimple with a deburring tool.
Another approach is to use the tank dies, which I do on the thicker .025 and
0.32 skins.
You do need to make room for the proseal, otherwise the rivets will
definitely not be flush. You need to countersink some areas and you need to
allow extra depth. Yes I had to drill out a complete row, and it damages the
skin.
When dimpling you can either shamfer or use the tank dies. The dies save
labour and are more consistent.
Have fun with the tanks. You will find the proseal is very friendly - it
follows you into the house. Weeks later you will find your own fingerprints
in all sorts of unlikely spots.
David Francis, VH-ZEE. Tanks thankfully finished and tested.
Email: David.Francis@defence.gov.au <mailto:David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
--> RV7-List message posted by: Richard Tasker
<retasker@optonline.net>
I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your
opinions of
tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies.
I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple
to
compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses
the regular
dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an
objectional
amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that?
Thanks,
Dick Tasker
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> You do need to make room for the proseal, otherwise the rivets will
> definitely not be flush. You need to countersink some areas and you need
to
> allow extra depth. Yes I had to drill out a complete row, and it damages
the
> skin.
The countersunk holes along the baffle-skin joint don't really need to be
larger/deeper than the rivet head. The way that joint gets sealed, you're
supposed to lay a bead of sealant just in FRONT of the rivet holes...as the
baffle gets pushed into place it smushes the bead into the tank. A bit of
sealant can get between the baffle and skin, but it's not really supposed to
be too thick in there. The point I'm making is that if you've got sealant
seeping out through the baffle-skin rivet holes, you probably used too much
sealant or applied it more aft than you need to.
Technically, the rivets along the baffle-skin joint don't really have to
seal anything themselves, unlike the rivets along the ribs. They simply
function to pinch the baffle and skin together.
If you had to quantify "how much deeper" those holes should be, how would
you describe it dimensionally? Would you just eyeball it? How much is too
much? I honestly think those holes are best countersunk at the standard
depth...so the rivets sit flush normally.
Just my 2 cents, and take it with a grain of salt because I still don't have
fuel in my tanks!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish)
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Tank dimple Question |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
As Dan pointed out, technically the skin to baffle holes are not part of the
sealing process, but as David said, Proseal has a way of finding it's way
into everything. With that said, I had good success in countersinking just
a "tad" (real technical term there, huh)deeper and the heads came out
nicely...............with proseal under there?? Dimple and proseal on,
you'll love it.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
>From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
>Technically, the rivets along the baffle-skin joint don't really have to
>seal anything themselves, unlike the rivets along the ribs. They simply
>function to pinch the baffle and skin together.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Tank dimple Question |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Burton Loewen" <kbloewen@mts.net>
Just finished the tanks last week for our 7a using regular dies from
Cleveland. The RAA inspector who did the inspection on the wings and tanks
just yesterday commented on our great riveting job.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
Subject: RV7-List: Tank dimple Question
> --> RV7-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>
> I am starting on the tanks for my RV9A and would like your opinions of
> tank dimple dies vs normal dimple dies.
>
> I understand that the tank dimple dies make a deeper dimple to
> compensate for the pro-seal under the rivet. If one uses the regular
> dimple dies, does that leave the rivets sticking up an objectional
> amoount? If that is the case, what does one do about that?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dick Tasker
>
>
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