Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:19 AM - Re: Compressors (Britt Crowell)
2. 11:54 AM - Re: Re: Compressors (Rob Prior)
3. 12:02 PM - Engine gauges (John Adams)
4. 12:37 PM - Re: Engine gauges (cary rhodes)
5. 12:45 PM - Re: Engine gauges (Scott Bilinski)
6. 02:09 PM - Re: Engine gauges (John Adams)
7. 02:58 PM - Re: Engine gauges (Scott Bilinski)
8. 03:16 PM - Quieting Compressors Down (flyseaplane)
9. 03:19 PM - Engine gauges (flyseaplane)
10. 03:33 PM - Re: Engine gauges (Jim Norman)
11. 04:29 PM - Re: Re: Compressors (Wayne Halbsgut)
12. 04:50 PM - Re: Engine gauges (RV8ter@AOL.com)
13. 05:03 PM - Re: Engine gauges (Mike D.)
14. 05:27 PM - Re: Engine gauges (Jim Norman)
15. 05:51 PM - Re: Engine gauges (Dan Checkoway)
16. 06:12 PM - IK-2000 (Genev E Reed)
17. 06:49 PM - Re: IK-2000 (Jim Norman)
18. 06:53 PM - SEC: UNCLASSIFIED : Engine gauges (Francis, David CMDR)
Message 1
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Britt Crowell" <britt@fortcollins.com>
Quick little note on compressors. Everyone keeps talking about oilless vs oiled
compressors and the noise. Its not the oil that really makes the difference,
it is if its direct drive or not. I have an oiled 29 gal harbor freight vertical
that is direct drive and it makes just as much noise as my neighbors 20gal
oilless. Its was only $200 so it was still a good deal but I wish I just would
have gotten the 60gal 240V from home depot now.
Britt
Time: 07:00:08 PM PST US
From: John <jleclercq@charter.net>
Subject: RV7-List: Compressors
--> RV7-List message posted by: John <jleclercq@charter.net>
Geese guys,
All this talk about noisy oil less or quieter oil bath type compressors has finally
gotten to me and must add my 2 cents worth.. I have both types and when it comes
to air
tool use, the oil bath type beats the other noisy and slow beast hands down. In
fact
I've got this loud oil less compressor (headache machine) that I think needs a
new
home...perhaps the miserable guy down the street who is always asking me "your
not
really going to fly that are you".
Yes that's it! ; )
Do Not Archive
Britt Crowell
Crowell Consulting Inc.
970-484-4995
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Compressors |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Rob Prior <rv7@b4.ca>
Here's another question, thinking about noisy compressors. My oiled, CH
20 Gal compressor is reasonably quiet, in that if I close the door to
the room it's in it reduces to a dull rumble elsewhere in the house, but
i'd like to get it quieter yet if possible.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to make a compressor quieter?
I know that the majority of the noise comes from the inlet of the
compressor, and mine did come with a little plastic filter that sits
there, but it's not really all that effective. Would a muffler of some
kind help? Has anyone tried?
I'd like to get it down to the level of a washing machine, but i'm not
sure if that's realistic or not...
-RB4
Britt Crowell wrote:
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Britt Crowell" <britt@fortcollins.com>
>
> Quick little note on compressors. Everyone keeps talking about oilless vs oiled
compressors and the noise. Its not the oil that really makes the difference,
it is if its direct drive or not. I have an oiled 29 gal harbor freight vertical
that is direct drive and it makes just as much noise as my neighbors 20gal
oilless. Its was only $200 so it was still a good deal but I wish I just would
have gotten the 60gal 240V from home depot now.
>
Message 3
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--> RV7-List message posted by: John Adams <jadams@scoutmedical.com>
I'm thinking of putting in a simple EGT and CHT gauge in my panel. I want
to keep things simple, so I'll only monitor one cylinder with the probes.
Does anyone know if there a certain cylinder in the O-360 that always runs
the hottest?
John Adams
N577RV
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Engine gauges |
--> RV7-List message posted by: cary rhodes <rhodeseng@yahoo.com>
either of the back cylinders, left would be my
preferrence
or the one with the oil cooler nearby
cary
-7
--- John Adams <jadams@scoutmedical.com> wrote:
> --> RV7-List message posted by: John Adams
> <jadams@scoutmedical.com>
>
> I'm thinking of putting in a simple EGT and CHT
> gauge in my panel. I want
> to keep things simple, so I'll only monitor one
> cylinder with the probes.
> Does anyone know if there a certain cylinder in the
> O-360 that always runs
> the hottest?
> John Adams
> N577RV
>
>
>
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Engine gauges |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@qcpi.com>
For me it is mandatory to know what each cylinder is doing both exhaust and
cyl head temps. Anything less is asking for trouble. I recently flew a
rental plane and found that the exhaust gas temps varied 200 degrees from
the coldest to hotest cylinder. Why risk it on a 20k engine?
At 12:02 PM 2/6/03 -0800, you wrote:
>--> RV7-List message posted by: John Adams <jadams@scoutmedical.com>
>
>I'm thinking of putting in a simple EGT and CHT gauge in my panel. I want
>to keep things simple, so I'll only monitor one cylinder with the probes.
>Does anyone know if there a certain cylinder in the O-360 that always runs
>the hottest?
>John Adams
>N577RV
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 8220
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 6
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--> RV7-List message posted by: John Adams <jadams@scoutmedical.com>
What I keep asking myself is what do you do about a temp difference if you
have one between cylinders? I suppose you could richen and cool them all
down. My Cessna has neither EGT or CHT and it gets an long just fine for
the past 28 years. Scott maybe you are right however, in an experimental you
could adjust the cooling air flow to get the CHTs close to the same temp.
EGT is controlled by mixture however, so I don't know how you would even
them up. How do you know all the probes are reading the same also? Maybe
Cessna has it right, just keep the engine running smooth and don't worry
about it.
John Adams
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Bilinski [mailto:bilinski@qcpi.com]
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine gauges
--> RV7-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@qcpi.com>
For me it is mandatory to know what each cylinder is doing both exhaust and
cyl head temps. Anything less is asking for trouble. I recently flew a
rental plane and found that the exhaust gas temps varied 200 degrees from
the coldest to hotest cylinder. Why risk it on a 20k engine?
At 12:02 PM 2/6/03 -0800, you wrote:
>--> RV7-List message posted by: John Adams <jadams@scoutmedical.com>
>
>I'm thinking of putting in a simple EGT and CHT gauge in my panel. I want
>to keep things simple, so I'll only monitor one cylinder with the probes.
>Does anyone know if there a certain cylinder in the O-360 that always runs
>the hottest?
>John Adams
>N577RV
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 8220
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 7
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--> RV7-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@qcpi.com>
I use to road race and the cost of the engine/transmission/rear end was
expensive (at least for me) I had temp gagues in them all. If I could see a
problem before it got serious it equaled saving alot of time and money. Now
were talking aircraft engines even more expensive. I went for the Vision
Micro Systems VM 1000 engine monitor, so I can see everything. Your Cessna
at 28 with no engine problems? I wish that was the norm. I have heard of
all sorts of problems before TBO. There again since this is my first plane
I am not an experienced owner so I just fell back on my racing background
that says, "you will know what the engine is doing" so I decided to put in
the horns bells and whistles I wanted so I dont have to do it later. I can
honestly say I only blew the budget by about 5k.
At 02:09 PM 2/6/03 -0800, you wrote:
>--> RV7-List message posted by: John Adams <jadams@scoutmedical.com>
>
>What I keep asking myself is what do you do about a temp difference if you
>have one between cylinders? I suppose you could richen and cool them all
>down. My Cessna has neither EGT or CHT and it gets an long just fine for
>the past 28 years. Scott maybe you are right however, in an experimental you
>could adjust the cooling air flow to get the CHTs close to the same temp.
>EGT is controlled by mixture however, so I don't know how you would even
>them up. How do you know all the probes are reading the same also? Maybe
>Cessna has it right, just keep the engine running smooth and don't worry
>about it.
>John Adams
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Scott Bilinski [mailto:bilinski@qcpi.com]
>To: rv7-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine gauges
>
>
>--> RV7-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@qcpi.com>
>
>For me it is mandatory to know what each cylinder is doing both exhaust and
>cyl head temps. Anything less is asking for trouble. I recently flew a
>rental plane and found that the exhaust gas temps varied 200 degrees from
>the coldest to hotest cylinder. Why risk it on a 20k engine?
>
>
>At 12:02 PM 2/6/03 -0800, you wrote:
>>--> RV7-List message posted by: John Adams <jadams@scoutmedical.com>
>>
>>I'm thinking of putting in a simple EGT and CHT gauge in my panel. I want
>>to keep things simple, so I'll only monitor one cylinder with the probes.
>>Does anyone know if there a certain cylinder in the O-360 that always runs
>>the hottest?
>>John Adams
>>N577RV
>>
>>
>
>
>Scott Bilinski
>Eng dept 8220
>Phone (858) 657-2536
>Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 8220
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 8
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| Subject: | Quieting Compressors Down |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane@netzero.net>
"I know that the majority of the noise comes from the inlet of the
compressor, and mine did come with a little plastic filter that sits there,
but it's not really all that effective. Would a muffler of some kind help?
Has anyone tried?"
When I lived in Montana I made a small box "room" for my compressor out of
3" thick "Celotex" insulating foam and then glued/stapled wal-mart "egg
crate" foam (from the bedding section) inside of it. It quieted it down a
whole bunch. Put a layer or two of foam around the edge on the bottom to let
air into the box. Depending on where you live, it may get too hot inside the
"little room" with the compressor running and it may overheat either the
compressor or the motor. The idea works great in the winter. Give it a try.
Happy Building,
Linc
Message 9
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane@netzero.net>
"For me it is mandatory to know what each cylinder is doing both exhaust
and cyl head temps. Anything less is asking for trouble."
------------
Yeah, me too. I bought a 3 1/8" Quad EGT and Quad CHT from Westach and
bought four each CHT and EGT probes. That way I know for sure. Certified
aircraft manufacturers spend hours and hours finding which cylinders are
hottest, but as experimenters we have to find out fore ourselves.
Later all,
Linc
Message 10
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Jim Norman" <jgnorman@tampabay.rr.com>
All,
I've said this before, but it may be helpful to those who are new.
The Vision Microsystem is a great unit. HOWEVER, in my opinion, the IK-2000
is significantly BETTER, and $2000 less!
You need to see this unit work to believe it. It does a LOT more than the
VM-1000 too.
jim
Tampa
6A
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott Bilinski
Subject: RE: RV7-List: Engine gauges
--> RV7-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@qcpi.com>
I use to road race and the cost of the engine/transmission/rear end was
expensive (at least for me) I had temp gagues in them all. If I could see a
problem before it got serious it equaled saving alot of time and money. Now
were talking aircraft engines even more expensive. I went for the Vision
Micro Systems VM 1000 engine monitor, so I can see everything. Your Cessna
at 28 with no engine problems? I wish that was the norm. I have heard of
all sorts of problems before TBO. There again since this is my first plane
I am not an experienced owner so I just fell back on my racing background
that says, "you will know what the engine is doing" so I decided to put in
the horns bells and whistles I wanted so I dont have to do it later. I can
honestly say I only blew the budget by about 5k.
At 02:09 PM 2/6/03 -0800, you wrote:
>--> RV7-List message posted by: John Adams <jadams@scoutmedical.com>
>
>What I keep asking myself is what do you do about a temp difference if you
>have one between cylinders? I suppose you could richen and cool them all
>down. My Cessna has neither EGT or CHT and it gets an long just fine for
>the past 28 years. Scott maybe you are right however, in an experimental
you
>could adjust the cooling air flow to get the CHTs close to the same temp.
>EGT is controlled by mixture however, so I don't know how you would even
>them up. How do you know all the probes are reading the same also? Maybe
>Cessna has it right, just keep the engine running smooth and don't worry
>about it.
>John Adams
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Scott Bilinski [mailto:bilinski@qcpi.com]
>To: rv7-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine gauges
>
>
>--> RV7-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@qcpi.com>
>
>For me it is mandatory to know what each cylinder is doing both exhaust and
>cyl head temps. Anything less is asking for trouble. I recently flew a
>rental plane and found that the exhaust gas temps varied 200 degrees from
>the coldest to hotest cylinder. Why risk it on a 20k engine?
>
>
>At 12:02 PM 2/6/03 -0800, you wrote:
>>--> RV7-List message posted by: John Adams <jadams@scoutmedical.com>
>>
>>I'm thinking of putting in a simple EGT and CHT gauge in my panel. I want
>>to keep things simple, so I'll only monitor one cylinder with the probes.
>>Does anyone know if there a certain cylinder in the O-360 that always runs
>>the hottest?
>>John Adams
>>N577RV
>>
>>
>
>
>Scott Bilinski
>Eng dept 8220
>Phone (858) 657-2536
>Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 8220
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Compressors |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Wayne Halbsgut <halbsgut@comcast.net>
Rob,
I found the same thing with my Sears 6HP 30 gal compressor in my shop.
Scared the heck out of me every time it turned on. So here is what I did.
I built an enclosure around the tank using 1x3 furring strips, luan plywood,
some sheet metal plates and Sound Stop (by Celotex). All combined, total
cost was probably around $60-70. The "Sound Stop" is a very light weight
4'x8' (1/2" thick) inexpensive material found at Home Depot for around $7
per sheet. It looks like a low density fiberboard and is made to deaden
sound. (I started out looking at high performance acoustical foam but
quickly found it to be incredibly expensive)
I started by putting 2 layers of Sound Stop down on the floor (my basement
slab resonates without it). Then I cut three sides for the enclosure 18" x
5' (2) and a 24" x 5' piece (this piece cut in half later) out of the luan.
I glued Sound Stop on each of the wall panels. Then each of the panels has
a frame of 1x3s attached to the inside. The enclosure is in the corner, so
the back walls are the basement walls. I put two layers of Sound Stop on
the back walls (use Liquid Nails cement) to reduce the sound bouncing off
the concrete. The side walls are attached to each other and the back walls
using the 3"x5" metal reinforcement plates ($0.45 each @ Home Depot). The
metal plates screw in to 1x3s that I glued (vertical) to the basement walls.
You'll note from the attached pictures, I cut the front panel in half so
that the top would open (hinged) and I could get access to the compressor.
After assembling the sides, I cut a lid to fit the enclosure. The lid is a
piece of luan with two layers of Sound Stop glued to the underside.
This enclosure works fairly well and reduces the sound to a tolerable level,
even when standing next to it. If you want to cut the noise down a little
more, use 1/2" or 3/4" plywood for the sides. The only problem tends to be
heat build up when the compressor runs for long periods of time. I just
open the door and do something else for a while.
Wayne
Perkasie, PA
RV7A wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Prior" <rv7@b4.ca>
Subject: Re: RV7-List: RE: Compressors
> --> RV7-List message posted by: Rob Prior <rv7@b4.ca>
>
> Here's another question, thinking about noisy compressors. My oiled, CH
> 20 Gal compressor is reasonably quiet, in that if I close the door to
> the room it's in it reduces to a dull rumble elsewhere in the house, but
> i'd like to get it quieter yet if possible.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions on how to make a compressor quieter?
>
> I know that the majority of the noise comes from the inlet of the
> compressor, and mine did come with a little plastic filter that sits
> there, but it's not really all that effective. Would a muffler of some
> kind help? Has anyone tried?
>
> I'd like to get it down to the level of a washing machine, but i'm not
> sure if that's realistic or not...
>
> -RB4
>
> Britt Crowell wrote:
> > --> RV7-List message posted by: "Britt Crowell" <britt@fortcollins.com>
> >
> > Quick little note on compressors. Everyone keeps talking about oilless
vs oiled compressors and the noise. Its not the oil that really makes the
difference, it is if its direct drive or not. I have an oiled 29 gal harbor
freight vertical that is direct drive and it makes just as much noise as my
neighbors 20gal oilless. Its was only $200 so it was still a good deal but I
wish I just would have gotten the 60gal 240V from home depot now.
> >
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Engine gauges |
--> RV7-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
What's a IK-2000 and where's a web site for it?
In a message dated 2/6/2003 6:40:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jgnorman@tampabay.rr.com writes:
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Jim Norman" <jgnorman@tampabay.rr.com>
>
> All,
> I've said this before, but it may be helpful to those who are new.
>
> The Vision Microsystem is a great unit. HOWEVER, in my opinion, the
> IK-2000
> is significantly BETTER, and $2000 less!
>
> You need to see this unit work to believe it. It does a LOT more than the
> VM-1000 too.
>
> jim
> Tampa
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Engine gauges |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Mike D." <mike1qc@yahoo.com>
http://www.i-ktechnologies.com/
Mike Divan
RV-7A
(Building Empennage)
Message 14
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Jim Norman" <jgnorman@tampabay.rr.com>
Here is the web site for the IK-2000.
http://www.i-ktechnologies.com/
If you go to the "photo gallery" section you will see installations in a lot
of RV's (including mine!).
Van's RV-9A has the IK 2000.
jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of RV8ter@AOL.com
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine gauges
--> RV7-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
What's a IK-2000 and where's a web site for it?
In a message dated 2/6/2003 6:40:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jgnorman@tampabay.rr.com writes:
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Jim Norman" <jgnorman@tampabay.rr.com>
>
> All,
> I've said this before, but it may be helpful to those who are new.
>
> The Vision Microsystem is a great unit. HOWEVER, in my opinion, the
> IK-2000
> is significantly BETTER, and $2000 less!
>
> You need to see this unit work to believe it. It does a LOT more than the
> VM-1000 too.
>
> jim
> Tampa
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Engine gauges |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
It would be remiss not to consider the ACS2002.
http://www.advanced-control-systems.com
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <RV8ter@AOL.com>
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine gauges
> --> RV7-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>
> What's a IK-2000 and where's a web site for it?
>
> In a message dated 2/6/2003 6:40:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> jgnorman@tampabay.rr.com writes:
>
> >
> > --> RV7-List message posted by: "Jim Norman" <jgnorman@tampabay.rr.com>
> >
> > All,
> > I've said this before, but it may be helpful to those who are new.
> >
> > The Vision Microsystem is a great unit. HOWEVER, in my opinion, the
> > IK-2000
> > is significantly BETTER, and $2000 less!
> >
> > You need to see this unit work to believe it. It does a LOT more than
the
> > VM-1000 too.
> >
> > jim
> > Tampa
> >
>
>
Message 16
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--> RV7-List message posted by: Genev E Reed <genevreed@juno.com>
Jim: how does the IK-2000 compare to the Grand Rapids
Doyle Reed 7A
Message 17
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Jim Norman" <jgnorman@tampabay.rr.com>
The IK-2000 is not really in the same league as the Grand Rapids system.
The IK-2000 is a bit more expensive, but it shows ALL parameters at ALL
times.... and does a lot more also.
In my opinion, the Grand Rapids system was pretty cool a while ago, but
there are a couple of systems that do a whole lot more. I have a friend who
has the Grand Rapids system... All of the readouts are numbers on an LCD
screen. You have to look at the numbers and THINK about each number.
The IK-2000 (among one or two others I think), have digital readouts of all
the numbers, but they also present each of them in a series of colored LEDs.
Flying this thing is a dream. I just glance over and make sure everything
is in the green. If I haven't leaned out enough, the EGT's are in the
green, but the height of the LED bar graphs for the EGTs are lower than all
of the other green bar graphs. So its not just that they are all in the
green, its that when I'm leaned out correctly, the HEIGHT of the EGT LEDs
are the same HEIGHT of the green CHT LEDs. Also, if I've not leaned out
enough, the green bar graph for the fuel flow turns yellow. By putting the
EGT green bars in the right place, I burn several gallons per hour less gas.
The same thing goes for all of the other perameters. Oil Temp, for
instance... I can look at the LCD display and see the number (and I do
sometimes), but while flying all I have to do is GLANCE and I see that the
Oil Temp LED bar graph is green and the height of the bar graph is the same
as the other green bar graphs.
Bottom line... is usability and ease of use. Just glance at it and you know
things are good. Also... this has an altitude hold bar graph, OAT,
Airspeed, and Altitude, in addition to every engine and fuel perameter.
jim
Tampa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Genev E Reed
Subject: RV7-List: IK-2000
--> RV7-List message posted by: Genev E Reed <genevreed@juno.com>
Jim: how does the IK-2000 compare to the Grand Rapids
Doyle Reed 7A
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
Folks, my take on engine monitors is that they are seriously expensive and
unless you know you have a problem they are not necessarily worth it.
Duringhte flight test stage I propose to wire thermocouples to all cylinders
with temporary switching to my multimeter, which has a temp reading feature.
If a problem cylinder shows up I will try to fix it if I can with
baffling/sealing etc. If that does not cure the problem reliably then an
engine monitor becomes a very effective investment.
To illustrate, two of my scaly mates have a Cessna 175 Skylark and recently
had to replace two cylinders due to overheat damage, at enormous expense.
Cessna got the cooling wrong, its undercooled for an Australian summer.
There is not practical solution so to help them live with the problem they
just installed a engine monitor. During climb at full rich if the hottest
cylinder goes near the redline they throw away climb performance, lower the
nose to a faster IAS cruise climb to keep the temp down. In cruise they lean
according to the hottest EGT, which means overcooling the other cylinders
and wasting fuel.
That's the cost of Cessnas poor design, but the monitor will reduce engine
maintenance costs, and so is a good investment for a cooling problem they
cannot fix, only control.
David Francis, VH-ZEE
Email: David.Francis@defence.gov.au <mailto:David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
--> RV7-List message posted by: John Adams
<jadams@scoutmedical.com>
What I keep asking myself is what do you do about a temp
difference if you
have one between cylinders?
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