---------------------------------------------------------- RV7-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/27/03: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:26 AM - Re: EFIS (jgburns) 2. 05:40 AM - Re: EFIS (Jerry Carter) 3. 06:21 AM - Re: EFIS & IFR (Dana Overall) 4. 01:20 PM - [ Henry Hore ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:26:05 AM PST US From: "jgburns" Subject: Re: RV7-List: EFIS --> RV7-List message posted by: "jgburns" It appears that Jerry may be legally flying under IFRs, while Bret might be "doing the right thing" - seeking a DAR's permission (no doubt he'll be armed with all of the great input from this discussion!). "To each their own." My point is that when it comes to doubts about government regulations, there are two options: seek permission up front, or forgiveness if you're challenged by authorities. I have significant (career) experience trying both. IMO, there's no right or wrong answer to the question, "should I push the system or comply to questionable interpretation to the 'rules'?" Just assess the consequences of both and pick a path. For those that are considering Jerry's position (I'm leaning that way): I imagine that one could get into an ugly legal battle if they're "caught" in the wrong place/time. Remember Bob Hoover's medical revocation and subsequent legal mess? It was eventually decided in his favor, but what did it take? He had Phil Boyer and Tom Poberezny and the full weight of their respective organizations in his corner. We probably wouldn't be that fortunate. If you get caught/challenged, it may require more than a copy of the FARs to defend your position. If a DAR challenges you on the ramp, the appropriate mix of knowledge, assertiveness and respect will go a long way to peacefully resolving such a confrontation (which is really unlikely unless you wreck the plane). Unsolicited advice: If that should happen, don't hand over the ignition key, airworthiness certificate, or your license/medical unless someone has a gun pointed at your head! I think this discussion thread has been interesting - thanks! John Burns, Albuquerque 7A QB (presently going slow) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV7-List: EFIS From: Jerry Carter --> RV7-List message posted by: Jerry Carter As long as we live in a country governed by the rule of law (as opposed to the Taliban or something similar), I will take my chances doing what is legal. I don't believe that it is "pushing the system" if one simply complies with what is written in black and white for all of us. Jerry Carter On Saturday, September 27, 2003, at 03:25 AM, jgburns wrote: > --> RV7-List message posted by: "jgburns" > > It appears that Jerry may be legally flying under IFRs, while Bret > might be "doing the right thing" - seeking a DAR's permission (no > doubt he'll be armed with all of the great input from this > discussion!). > > "To each their own." > > My point is that when it comes to doubts about government regulations, > there are two options: seek permission up front, or forgiveness if > you're challenged by authorities. I have significant (career) > experience trying both. IMO, there's no right or wrong answer to the > question, "should I push the system or comply to questionable > interpretation to the 'rules'?" Just assess the consequences of both > and pick a path. > > For those that are considering Jerry's position (I'm leaning that way): > I imagine that one could get into an ugly legal battle if they're > "caught" in the wrong place/time. Remember Bob Hoover's medical > revocation and subsequent legal mess? It was eventually decided in > his favor, but what did it take? He had Phil Boyer and Tom Poberezny > and the full weight of their respective organizations in his corner. > We probably wouldn't be that fortunate. > > If you get caught/challenged, it may require more than a copy of the > FARs to defend your position. If a DAR challenges you on the ramp, the > appropriate mix of knowledge, assertiveness and respect will go a long > way to peacefully resolving such a confrontation (which is really > unlikely unless you wreck the plane). Unsolicited advice: If that > should happen, don't hand over the ignition key, airworthiness > certificate, or your license/medical unless someone has a gun pointed > at your head! > > I think this discussion thread has been interesting - thanks! > > John Burns, Albuquerque > 7A QB (presently going slow) > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:38 AM PST US From: "Dana Overall" Subject: RE: RV7-List: EFIS & IFR --> RV7-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" >The DAR's I've talked to say that they will not let a experimental glass >cockpit go for IFR...But maybe in the next year or so I can convince them >of the errors in their way.... > > >Bret >N997RV > Other than the non issue of a Dynon satisfying the required equipment regs., the "issue" of the DAR signing off your RV IFR is another misnomer. You will only initially be signed off for VFR flight no matter how extensive your panel is equipped. The airplane must be flown to perform the required testing of the installed IFR equipment, such as my Garmin 430. No minor or major alterations need to be performed and as I have said before, I can legally install, test and sign off the install for IFR operations. Don't make such a big deal out of a non issue, your DAR is not going to sign you off for IFR anyway, that will be the responsibility of you the builder. I won't be trying to hide anything on my inspection but I'll not even bring up the subject of IFR as that does not fall into the scope of the DARs inspection. It is not his business personnally, by regs or by law. He may state his personal opinions, but that is all they are opinions. Give me the VFR ticket, then I am responsible personnally, by regs and by law. Put the stuff in and bring on the ramp check. Dana Overall Richmond, KY RV-7 slider/fuselage, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your existing Internet access and enjoy ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:20:53 PM PST US Subject: RV7-List: [ Henry Hore ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! From: Email List Photo Shares --> RV7-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Henry Hore Subject: Corrosion Inside Fuel Tank Cap http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com.09.27.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com