Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:50 AM - Re: RV-6 or -7 center arm rest question (Mark Taylor)
2. 03:20 PM - Re: Too short rivets ? (Ed Pettiss)
3. 06:38 PM - Re: Too short rivets ? (Kent Sorensen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RV-6 or -7 center arm rest question |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylor@msxi.com>
Try these.... For starters... I remember you sent me a note with some
links in to another on, but I can't find it. I also remember somebody
marketing a center armrest with a lift up lid, but can;t remember that
either.
http://www.mstewart.net/michael/rv/index.htm go to finishing, then
interior.
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/panel.htm
http://www.kitairplaneforum.com/gal/rbrv6/panel.html
Mark Taylor
CAD Technical Specialist
(313) 203-4714
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Too short rivets ? |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Ed Pettiss" <pettisse@hotmail.com>
I had similar concerns, despite the manual's cryptic notes that sometimes
the rivet call-outs are correct even though they appear short. The
"smushing" argument is generally valid, but I think I did the math and
figured there was no way a -6 would result in "proper" driven heads even if
perfectly mated.
Before a visit by my EAA Tech Counselor, I called Van's Builder Support who
essentially said:
- The .5D and 1.5D specs are not hard requirements, and in fact the mil-spec
accepts rivets with something like 15% less in either dimension
- Note the many, many rivets in the spar doubler
- Most builders will clench the longer rivets and either leave them as-is or
re-drill and try again, which reduces the strength far more than using the
shorter length
- Thousands of airplanes are flying with these rivets, so chill
For what it's worth, I followed their call-outs for the tail, but found many
more cases of less-than-perfect choices in the fuselage. By that time I had
the skill and confidence to go with longer rivets without clenching.
Ed Pettiss
RV-7A Fuselage
>From: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo@phonewave.net>
>Reply-To: rv7-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv7-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV7-List: Too short rivets ?
>Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:51:08 -0800
>
>--> RV7-List message posted by: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo@phonewave.net>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Kent Sorensen" <kents@snak.com>
>To: <rv7-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV7-List: Too short rivets ?
>
>Sometimes the HS-609 reinf. bar is too tight a fit against the inside curve
>of the 603 and needs to be rounded/edged to fit perfect. The slightest
>separation of parts being rivited could cause the rivit to "smush" (tech.
>term) between the two parts, thus appearing to shorten the rivit. The
>tightest possible fit is necessary to maintain the airframe integrity and
>is
>essentially more important than a slightly short rivit.
>
> > --> RV7-List message posted by: Kent Sorensen <kents@snak.com>
> >
> > I'm now getting ready to get my work inspected (this is part of the
> > requirements up here in Canada). All that's left is some work on the
> > elevators and the HS rear spar, but I've hit an issue with the plans
> > calling for rivets that are too short.
> >
> > The callout for the joining of HS-603 (the rear spars) and HS-609
> > (reinforcement bars) say to use AN470AD4-6 here but after setting the
> > first one it seems that the -6 is quite a bit too short to set
> > correctly. If set to fulfill the head width requirement it gets too
> > thin.
> >
> > The combined thickness of the 603 spar and the 609 reinforcement bar is
> > 0.23 inches so the formula would indeed call for a little less than a
> > -7.
> >
> > I'm curious if I'm making a mistake, if I got a thicker stock of
> > reinforcement bar in my kit, or if this is simply a non-issue and the
> > -6 is acceptable after all ? This will have to be inspected and
> > approved so I'm afraid the last choice is not valid..
> >
> > On the VS back spar the callout is also for -6 but there the combined
> > thickness is just 0.175 inches so the -6 is ok.
> >
> > I have come across this problem two other places in the tail and it's
> > puzzling.
> >
> > The other places I found the rivet length to be inadequate was the
> > 5 rivets in HS center hinge bracket VA-146. The thickness is 0.185
> > inches which calls for a -6 but the plans said -5
> >
> > 6 rivets that join the rudder horn, the shim plate,R-904 lower rib,
> > R-902 spar and the reinforcement place. The plans said AD4-7 but that
> > was inadequate so I used -8.
> >
> > Kent
> > Ontario, CA. Almost done with tail. QB fuselage and wings on order
> >
> >
>
>
Learn how to choose, serve, and enjoy wine at Wine @ MSN.
http://wine.msn.com/
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Too short rivets ? |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Kent Sorensen <kents@snak.com>
I ended up doing all the many -6 rivets in the rear HS spar as -7 (and
the -7's as -8) using the c-frame. They all came out perfectly. I know
the -6 were undoubtedly adequate safety and strength-wise, but here in
Canada the work has to be inspected and approved by a government
inspector. I like that very much even if it meant that I couldn't
actually complete any of the components before moving on to the next
one.
My concern was simply wanting to do everything by the book.
Anyway, the thorough inspection took place today and my work was
approved without any problems :-)
I now have a fully completed HS and VS. The remaining work on the
elevators and rudder will be done soon.
Then I just have to find patience for 2-3 weeks before my QB wings and
fuselage are scheduled to arrive :-)
Thanks
Kent
On Jan 30, 2004, at 6:19 PM, Ed Pettiss wrote:
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Ed Pettiss" <pettisse@hotmail.com>
>
> I had similar concerns, despite the manual's cryptic notes that
> sometimes
> the rivet call-outs are correct even though they appear short. The
> "smushing" argument is generally valid, but I think I did the math and
> figured there was no way a -6 would result in "proper" driven heads
> even if
> perfectly mated.
>
> Before a visit by my EAA Tech Counselor, I called Van's Builder
> Support who
> essentially said:
>
> - The .5D and 1.5D specs are not hard requirements, and in fact the
> mil-spec
> accepts rivets with something like 15% less in either dimension
> - Note the many, many rivets in the spar doubler
> - Most builders will clench the longer rivets and either leave them
> as-is or
> re-drill and try again, which reduces the strength far more than using
> the
> shorter length
> - Thousands of airplanes are flying with these rivets, so chill
>
> For what it's worth, I followed their call-outs for the tail, but
> found many
> more cases of less-than-perfect choices in the fuselage. By that time
> I had
> the skill and confidence to go with longer rivets without clenching.
>
> Ed Pettiss
> RV-7A Fuselage
>
>> From: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo@phonewave.net>
>> Reply-To: rv7-list@matronics.com
>> To: <rv7-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Too short rivets ?
>> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:51:08 -0800
>>
>> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo@phonewave.net>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kent Sorensen" <kents@snak.com>
>> To: <rv7-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: RV7-List: Too short rivets ?
>>
>> Sometimes the HS-609 reinf. bar is too tight a fit against the inside
>> curve
>> of the 603 and needs to be rounded/edged to fit perfect. The
>> slightest
>> separation of parts being rivited could cause the rivit to "smush"
>> (tech.
>> term) between the two parts, thus appearing to shorten the rivit. The
>> tightest possible fit is necessary to maintain the airframe integrity
>> and
>> is
>> essentially more important than a slightly short rivit.
>>
>>> --> RV7-List message posted by: Kent Sorensen <kents@snak.com>
>>>
>>> I'm now getting ready to get my work inspected (this is part of the
>>> requirements up here in Canada). All that's left is some work on the
>>> elevators and the HS rear spar, but I've hit an issue with the plans
>>> calling for rivets that are too short.
>>>
>>> The callout for the joining of HS-603 (the rear spars) and HS-609
>>> (reinforcement bars) say to use AN470AD4-6 here but after setting the
>>> first one it seems that the -6 is quite a bit too short to set
>>> correctly. If set to fulfill the head width requirement it gets too
>>> thin.
>>>
>>> The combined thickness of the 603 spar and the 609 reinforcement bar
>>> is
>>> 0.23 inches so the formula would indeed call for a little less than a
>>> -7.
>>>
>>> I'm curious if I'm making a mistake, if I got a thicker stock of
>>> reinforcement bar in my kit, or if this is simply a non-issue and the
>>> -6 is acceptable after all ? This will have to be inspected and
>>> approved so I'm afraid the last choice is not valid..
>>>
>>> On the VS back spar the callout is also for -6 but there the combined
>>> thickness is just 0.175 inches so the -6 is ok.
>>>
>>> I have come across this problem two other places in the tail and it's
>>> puzzling.
>>>
>>> The other places I found the rivet length to be inadequate was the
>>> 5 rivets in HS center hinge bracket VA-146. The thickness is 0.185
>>> inches which calls for a -6 but the plans said -5
>>>
>>> 6 rivets that join the rudder horn, the shim plate,R-904 lower rib,
>>> R-902 spar and the reinforcement place. The plans said AD4-7 but
>>> that
>>> was inadequate so I used -8.
>>>
>>> Kent
>>> Ontario, CA. Almost done with tail. QB fuselage and wings on order
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> Learn how to choose, serve, and enjoy wine at Wine @ MSN.
> http://wine.msn.com/
>
>
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