Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:05 PM - "Need Extra Hands" in building a RV-8A QB - Santa Monica, Calif (Garey Wittich)
2. 01:01 PM - Re: "Need Extra Hands" in building a RV-8A QB - Santa Monica, Calif (Walter Tondu)
3. 02:44 PM - IFR instruments (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
4. 03:09 PM - Re: IFR instruments (Jeff Williams)
5. 03:44 PM - SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Re: IFR instruments (Francis, David CMDR)
6. 04:09 PM - Re: IFR instruments (Kathleen (rv7))
7. 04:10 PM - Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Re: IFR instruments (Dana Overall)
8. 04:34 PM - Re: UNCLASSIFIED Re: IFR instruments (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
9. 05:53 PM - Re: UNCLASSIFIED Re: IFR instruments (Brian Meyette)
10. 06:19 PM - Re: Wing tip antennas (Brian Meyette)
Message 1
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| Subject: | "Need Extra Hands" in building a RV-8A QB - Santa Monica, Calif |
rv8-list@matronics.com, rv9-list@matronics.com, rv-list@matronics.com
--> RV7-List message posted by: Garey Wittich <gareywittich2000@yahoo.com>
Greetings:
Any Builders who live in the Santa Monica, Calif area.
Building a RV-8A QB in my garage 5 minutes from Santa
Monica Airport and "need extra hands". Willing to
help somebody with their project TOO. My wife does
not want to get involved and the local EAA Chapter is
all composite builders. At the rate I am making
progress it will take me 5 life times to complete
!!!!!
Thanks,
Garey Wittich (310) 392-1682
__________________________________
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: "Need Extra Hands" in building a RV-8A QB - Santa Monica, |
Calif
--> RV7-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
On 08/25 12:04, Garey Wittich wrote:
> --> RV7-List message posted by: Garey Wittich <gareywittich2000@yahoo.com>
>
> Greetings:
>
> Any Builders who live in the Santa Monica, Calif area.
> Building a RV-8A QB in my garage 5 minutes from Santa
> Monica Airport and "need extra hands". Willing to
> help somebody with their project TOO. My wife does
> not want to get involved and the local EAA Chapter is
> all composite builders. At the rate I am making
> progress it will take me 5 life times to complete
> !!!!!
>
> Thanks,
Hi Garey
I know where you are coming from...
I live in the South Bay, work in Manhattan Beach. I can
help you out. Give me a call (310) 345-8925
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Message 3
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<rv6-list@matronics.com>, <rv8-list@matronics.com>,
<rv9-list@matronics.com>,
<rv-list@matronics.com>
1.7 SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS Similar addresses in recipient list
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hi Guys,
I was almost convinced the Garmin GNS 430 hooked to a Dynon and a
Digitrack A/P was the almost perfect base to a light weight IFR setup
for an RV-7, then I see that BMA has come out with the EFIS Lite G3
which has the GPS, and an electronic version of the VOR/GS receiver that
can be driven by an SL30 Navcom. Apparently this system drives a BMA 2
axis autopilot.
Looking at all of this gives me aN IFR panel for about $11k including
the transponder and 2 axis A/P. The similar setup using the GNS 430
comes in at about $14.5K with single axis A/P.
Anyone have any experience or thoughts on this set up?
I haven't started IFR training yet so I'm fumbling a little on all the
requirements...Not sure about the "indicator lights" (marker beacon?)
that are apparently built into the Nav head that the GNS 430 would
drive.
Frank
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: IFR instruments |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Jeff Williams <Tramsootru@direcway.com>
I don't know if I am expirenced enough to give too much feedback on the
autopilot options your looking at, but I do have some time with the GNS
430... I am going to be putting on in our 6 as soon as I can get it done..
The gns 430 makes flying soo much easier. :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
<rv6-list@matronics.com>; <rv8-list@matronics.com>;
<rv9-list@matronics.com>; <rv-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RV7-List: IFR instruments
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I was almost convinced the Garmin GNS 430 hooked to a Dynon and a
> Digitrack A/P was the almost perfect base to a light weight IFR setup
> for an RV-7, then I see that BMA has come out with the EFIS Lite G3
> which has the GPS, and an electronic version of the VOR/GS receiver that
> can be driven by an SL30 Navcom. Apparently this system drives a BMA 2
> axis autopilot.
>
> Looking at all of this gives me aN IFR panel for about $11k including
> the transponder and 2 axis A/P. The similar setup using the GNS 430
> comes in at about $14.5K with single axis A/P.
>
> Anyone have any experience or thoughts on this set up?
>
> I haven't started IFR training yet so I'm fumbling a little on all the
> requirements...Not sure about the "indicator lights" (marker beacon?)
> that are apparently built into the Nav head that the GNS 430 would
> drive.
>
> Frank
>
>
Message 5
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
Frank,
I am building an IFR RV7 in Australia, and our requirements are almost
identical to those in the FAR. You do need to read the FAR and understand it
well.
Dynon have specific warnings in their documentation that their gadget is NOT
suitable for IFR. This was confirmed in conversation at Oshkosh 03. The
reason is that they are building to a price at the bottom of the market.
They have to use the cheapest sensors to do the job and so drift rates are
too big for accurate and reliable indications to the pilot.
Both Grand Rapids and Blue Mountain stand by their products for IFR use.
Indeed the G3 Efis Lite is about to be TSOd, TSO compliance is not required
for flight instruments, but it is a measure of instrument accuracy and
robustness.
For precision approaches you need a a CDI. You dont for non-precision
approaches.
The BMA autopilot servos are big and heavy, otherwise the autopilot is
excellent.
Think about redundancy for your own safety. If you have a BMA Efis with
integrated autopilot, a loose wire will kill both and leave you in the dark
with no toys to play with. If you have an Efis with a Trutrak autopilot,
then if you lose the Efis then the separate autopilot will keep you upright.
Separate standby instruments will provide the same protection.
And dont forget you need independent sources of power.
Its all cost and weight. Your $11K estimate is a bit light.
Check out the FARs very carefully.
Mine will be, CNX80, GRT Efis, BMA Efis lite for standby, Trutrak DII, Xair
760 as standby Comm, plus twin electrical systems.
Regards, David Francis, Canberra, Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Williams [mailto:Tramsootru@direcway.com]
Subject: Re: RV7-List: IFR instruments
--
> I was almost convinced the Garmin GNS 430 hooked to a Dynon and a
> Digitrack A/P was the almost perfect base to a light weight IFR setup
> for an RV-7, then I see that BMA has come out with the EFIS Lite G3
> which has the GPS, and an electronic version of the VOR/GS receiver that
> can be driven by an SL30 Navcom. Apparently this system drives a BMA 2
> axis autopilot.
>
>
Message 6
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Kathleen (rv7)" <Kathleen@rv7.us>
And, there's another opinion. I don't like the non-intuitive nature of the
GNS-430. My current panel plan calls for 2 EFIS Lite G3s and an SL-30 and
an SL-40. The UPS folks really did make easier to use and more sensible
radios. On the down side, the UPS (oops! I meant "now Garmin") units put
out less transmit power than the GNS. I don't think it equates to much of a
measurable practical difference, though. I do think the 430 can be
frustrating under stressful conditions because of the multiple button
pushes...
Kathleen Evans
Folsom, CA
www.rv7.us
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Williams
Subject: Re: RV7-List: IFR instruments
--> RV7-List message posted by: Jeff Williams <Tramsootru@direcway.com>
I don't know if I am expirenced enough to give too much feedback on the
autopilot options your looking at, but I do have some time with the GNS
430... I am going to be putting on in our 6 as soon as I can get it done..
The gns 430 makes flying soo much easier. :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
<rv6-list@matronics.com>; <rv8-list@matronics.com>;
<rv9-list@matronics.com>; <rv-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RV7-List: IFR instruments
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I was almost convinced the Garmin GNS 430 hooked to a Dynon and a
> Digitrack A/P was the almost perfect base to a light weight IFR setup
> for an RV-7, then I see that BMA has come out with the EFIS Lite G3
> which has the GPS, and an electronic version of the VOR/GS receiver that
> can be driven by an SL30 Navcom. Apparently this system drives a BMA 2
> axis autopilot.
>
> Looking at all of this gives me aN IFR panel for about $11k including
> the transponder and 2 axis A/P. The similar setup using the GNS 430
> comes in at about $14.5K with single axis A/P.
>
> Anyone have any experience or thoughts on this set up?
>
> I haven't started IFR training yet so I'm fumbling a little on all the
> requirements...Not sure about the "indicator lights" (marker beacon?)
> that are apparently built into the Nav head that the GNS 430 would
> drive.
>
> Frank
>
>
Message 7
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>From: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
.
>
>Dynon have specific warnings in their documentation that their gadget is
>NOT
>suitable for IFR. This was confirmed in conversation at Oshkosh 03. The
>reason is that they are building to a price at the bottom of the market.
>They have to use the cheapest sensors to do the job and so drift rates are
>too big for accurate and reliable indications to the pilot.
I think you will find this is BS initiated by Blue Mountain. Yes, Dynon
does say that as a liability issue but you will find the users of Dynon
wholeheartedly stand behind the accuracy of the Dynon unit and use it
regularly, and safely, in IFR conditions.
Be careful in what Blue Mountain tells you.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg
do not archive
>
Message 8
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Good thoughts.
I did note the weight of the BMA autopilot servos at 4lb each....gulp!
Not sure what the Trutrack ones weigh.
I thought the BMA EFIS and autopilot were separate like the Trutrack is
from the Dynon?..It maybe the BMA EFIS will drive the Trutrack...Website
not totally clear on this one. It is interesting that the Dynon with all
the toys is not that much cheaper than the BMA Lite G3. But your right
if the A/P won't function on its own that would be a concern.
As far as backup goes, I am planning a dual electircal system as it is
on my current VFR plane. This I require for the dual electronic
ignition/fuel pump system so there will be two electrical sources.
If I use the Trutrack I was thinking of getting the unit with the turn
coordinator head which will replace a turn coordinator fed from one
source, the EFIS fed from the other.
Hmm, it maybe the BMA EFISlite and GNS 430 (redundant GPS's) and
Trutrack might be the way to go. Add in a backup com radio that one
could talk to (scream at!) ATC might be a bad move even if the VOR/GS
was gone.....All of this could be split between electrical sources.
Thanks
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Francis, David
CMDR
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: RV7-List: IFR instruments
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Francis, David CMDR"
--> <David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
Frank,
I am building an IFR RV7 in Australia, and our requirements are almost
identical to those in the FAR. You do need to read the FAR and
understand it well.
Dynon have specific warnings in their documentation that their gadget is
NOT suitable for IFR. This was confirmed in conversation at Oshkosh 03.
The reason is that they are building to a price at the bottom of the
market. They have to use the cheapest sensors to do the job and so drift
rates are too big for accurate and reliable indications to the pilot.
Both Grand Rapids and Blue Mountain stand by their products for IFR use.
Indeed the G3 Efis Lite is about to be TSOd, TSO compliance is not
required for flight instruments, but it is a measure of instrument
accuracy and robustness.
For precision approaches you need a a CDI. You dont for non-precision
approaches.
The BMA autopilot servos are big and heavy, otherwise the autopilot is
excellent.
Think about redundancy for your own safety. If you have a BMA Efis with
integrated autopilot, a loose wire will kill both and leave you in the
dark with no toys to play with. If you have an Efis with a Trutrak
autopilot, then if you lose the Efis then the separate autopilot will
keep you upright. Separate standby instruments will provide the same
protection.
And dont forget you need independent sources of power.
Its all cost and weight. Your $11K estimate is a bit light.
Check out the FARs very carefully.
Mine will be, CNX80, GRT Efis, BMA Efis lite for standby, Trutrak DII,
Xair 760 as standby Comm, plus twin electrical systems.
Regards, David Francis, Canberra, Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Williams [mailto:Tramsootru@direcway.com]
Subject: Re: RV7-List: IFR instruments
--
> I was almost convinced the Garmin GNS 430 hooked to a Dynon and a
> Digitrack A/P was the almost perfect base to a light weight IFR setup
> for an RV-7, then I see that BMA has come out with the EFIS Lite G3
> which has the GPS, and an electronic version of the VOR/GS receiver
> that can be driven by an SL30 Navcom. Apparently this system drives a
> BMA 2 axis autopilot.
>
>
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 9
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic@starband.net>
BMA a/p is a separate BMA product. BMA will NOT drive Tru-Trak servos,
vice-versa. You could, I believe, have a BMA EFIS and a separate standalone
TT a/p, but the BMA wont drive the a/p. Unfortunately, the 2 servo systems
are not compatible. You have to choose one or the other. I went BMA for
the integrated solution. The point made about the Tru-Track having its own
attitude info was a good one. And yes, the BMA servos are bigger and
heavier than the TT. See detailed info here (sept 23, 23) :
http://brian76.mystarband.net/avionics2003.htm
TT is certainly not a bad choice
It is tough trying to build an IFR plane when you haven't flown IFR. I'm in
the same boat, but I think I've got most of it figured out by now. I am
starting in on my panel now.
brian
http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George
(Corvallis)
Subject: RE: UNCLASSIFIED RE: RV7-List: IFR instruments
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
Good thoughts.
I did note the weight of the BMA autopilot servos at 4lb each....gulp!
Not sure what the Trutrack ones weigh.
I thought the BMA EFIS and autopilot were separate like the Trutrack is
from the Dynon?..It maybe the BMA EFIS will drive the Trutrack...Website
not totally clear on this one. It is interesting that the Dynon with all
the toys is not that much cheaper than the BMA Lite G3. But your right
if the A/P won't function on its own that would be a concern.
As far as backup goes, I am planning a dual electircal system as it is
on my current VFR plane. This I require for the dual electronic
ignition/fuel pump system so there will be two electrical sources.
If I use the Trutrack I was thinking of getting the unit with the turn
coordinator head which will replace a turn coordinator fed from one
source, the EFIS fed from the other.
Hmm, it maybe the BMA EFISlite and GNS 430 (redundant GPS's) and
Trutrack might be the way to go. Add in a backup com radio that one
could talk to (scream at!) ATC might be a bad move even if the VOR/GS
was gone.....All of this could be split between electrical sources.
Thanks
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Francis, David
CMDR
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE: RV7-List: IFR instruments
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Francis, David CMDR"
--> <David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
Frank,
I am building an IFR RV7 in Australia, and our requirements are almost
identical to those in the FAR. You do need to read the FAR and
understand it well.
Dynon have specific warnings in their documentation that their gadget is
NOT suitable for IFR. This was confirmed in conversation at Oshkosh 03.
The reason is that they are building to a price at the bottom of the
market. They have to use the cheapest sensors to do the job and so drift
rates are too big for accurate and reliable indications to the pilot.
Both Grand Rapids and Blue Mountain stand by their products for IFR use.
Indeed the G3 Efis Lite is about to be TSOd, TSO compliance is not
required for flight instruments, but it is a measure of instrument
accuracy and robustness.
For precision approaches you need a a CDI. You dont for non-precision
approaches.
The BMA autopilot servos are big and heavy, otherwise the autopilot is
excellent.
Think about redundancy for your own safety. If you have a BMA Efis with
integrated autopilot, a loose wire will kill both and leave you in the
dark with no toys to play with. If you have an Efis with a Trutrak
autopilot, then if you lose the Efis then the separate autopilot will
keep you upright. Separate standby instruments will provide the same
protection.
And dont forget you need independent sources of power.
Its all cost and weight. Your $11K estimate is a bit light.
Check out the FARs very carefully.
Mine will be, CNX80, GRT Efis, BMA Efis lite for standby, Trutrak DII,
Xair 760 as standby Comm, plus twin electrical systems.
Regards, David Francis, Canberra, Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Williams [mailto:Tramsootru@direcway.com]
Subject: Re: RV7-List: IFR instruments
--
> I was almost convinced the Garmin GNS 430 hooked to a Dynon and a
> Digitrack A/P was the almost perfect base to a light weight IFR setup
> for an RV-7, then I see that BMA has come out with the EFIS Lite G3
> which has the GPS, and an electronic version of the VOR/GS receiver
> that can be driven by an SL30 Navcom. Apparently this system drives a
> BMA 2 axis autopilot.
>
>
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
---
---
Message 10
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| Subject: | Wing tip antennas |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic@starband.net>
I haven't used them, but plan to. See here:
http://brian76.mystarband.net/avionicsAug04.htm#aug22
contact Bob - he has great info on antennas that are out of the airstream.
He recommends a comm antenna in the top of the tail
brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
allenblck@netscape.net
Subject: RV7-List: Wing tip antennas
--> RV7-List message posted by: allenblck@netscape.net
Has anyone had any good results using wintip com. antennas? Van has said he
has had better luck with canopy antennas. Would appreciate any and all
comments.
Allen Blackwell
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