Today's Message Index:
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1. 07:14 PM - Squeezing out bad rivets (Andrew Olech)
2. 08:54 PM - Re: Squeezing out bad rivets (Hopperdhh@AOL.com)
3. 08:54 PM - Re: Squeezing out bad rivets (Richard E. Tasker)
4. 09:07 PM - SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Re: Squeezing out bad rivets (Francis, David CMDR)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Squeezing out bad rivets |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Andrew Olech" <olechap@comcast.net>
I'm a beginning riveter, and I've just started trying to rivet the Vertical
stabilizer main spar to the doubler plate with some 470AD4-6's (RV7). I'm
somewhat new to this and slightly frustrated with the results I've been
getting so far. The rivets all seem to begin to 'glance' off toward the
C-shape portion of the yoke and then fall to one side and look ugly or
sometimes I end up shearing a portion of the shop head. I've tried
different techniques including the latest: squeezing ever-so-slightly and
re-aligning the squeezer to attempt to straighten it out; but having no luck
most of the time. I probably have <30-40% acceptance rate, far from zero
non-conformance =) I have the Tatco squeezer, and have helped a friend
squeeze these rivets on her RV-9, with the same type of squeezer and sets
with no problem and not nearly as much fuss. Has anyone else had issues
with these damn AD4's? Here's my current troubleshooting list:
1. Correct length? As far as I can tell, yes. The print calls for -6
rivets, and in measuring the combined metal thickness of 0.161 and the 1/8"
diameter x1.5 brings me to ~0.349 which is just too long for a -5.5 rivet
(.3125). The -6 is .375. I also am convinced that .026 too long will not
cause such a toppling over of the rivet.
2. Rivet quality/age? The bag is dated 08/27/2004 for the -6's and 4/21/04
for the -5's, don't think there should be any material composition/structure
change that rapidly unless they were in a big container sitting on a shelf
for a while before bagging... I have similar problems with -4 -5 -6
and -7's, both in and out of metal
3. Squeezer. Is the yoke slightly off at one end? I know these are high
quality squeezers, but does anyone think that a slight misalignment might
push the rivets toward the inside of the C? Kind of wishing I had someone
else's squeezer to try for a while... this seems to be the most plausable
reason so far.
4. Sets. Does having a slightly convexed flush set have any bearing on this
problem? I put two flush sets in the squeezer for grins and brought them
together to find them only touching in the center - they aren't perfectly
flat. Should I try to sand one flat? I really don't think this is the
problem either.
What am I missing? Any thoughts would be extremely helpful!
Thanks,
Andy Olech
Ellington, CT
RV-7 Tail section on hold until my inability to set rivets disappears
magically.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Squeezing out bad rivets |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
In a message dated 10/25/04 9:15:15 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
olechap@comcast.net writes:
> 4. Sets. Does having a slightly convexed flush set have any bearing on
> this
> problem? I put two flush sets in the squeezer for grins and brought them
> together to find them only touching in the center - they aren't perfectly
> flat. Should I try to sand one flat? I really don't think this is the
> problem either.
>
> What am I missing? Any thoughts would be extremely helpful!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andy Olech
> Ellington, CT
>
Andy,
It is necessary to be really well centered on the rivet. Put a rivet in your
squeezer (no sheet metal, just the rivet) and center it up real well. When
you squeeze it, it should only get fatter, not bend over. Maybe your yoke is
not strong enough for the -4 rivets. It sounds like it may be deflecting, and
bending the rivets for that reason. A yoke with less reach will be stiffer,
and may fix your problem.
Hang in there. You'll be an expert in a few weeks.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
N766DH
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Squeezing out bad rivets |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
I don't have a hand squeezer, but all squeezers work basically the same,
so comments below...
Andrew Olech wrote:
>1. Correct length? As far as I can tell, yes. The print calls for -6
>rivets, and in measuring the combined metal thickness of 0.161 and the 1/8"
>diameter x1.5 brings me to ~0.349 which is just too long for a -5.5 rivet
>(.3125). The -6 is .375. I also am convinced that .026 too long will not
>cause such a toppling over of the rivet.
>
>
Unless the rivets are a lot too long, they will work. Being 0.026 too
long in definitely no problem. If it was, we wouldn't be able to build
the plane without cutting a lot of rivets.. By the way, -5.5 should be
0.3438, not 0.3125 (that is -5).
>2. Rivet quality/age? The bag is dated 08/27/2004 for the -6's and 4/21/04
>for the -5's, don't think there should be any material composition/structure
>change that rapidly unless they were in a big container sitting on a shelf
>for a while before bagging... I have similar problems with -4 -5 -6
>and -7's, both in and out of metal
>
>
Shouldn't be a problem with the rivets from Van's. In fact, the rivets
used are not really susceptible to change in characteristics due to
aging in any reasonable timeframe (years).
>3. Squeezer. Is the yoke slightly off at one end? I know these are high
>quality squeezers, but does anyone think that a slight misalignment might
>push the rivets toward the inside of the C? Kind of wishing I had someone
>else's squeezer to try for a while... this seems to be the most plausable
>reason so far.
>
>
I would bet on this if you have been able to squeeze rivets correctly
with someone else's squeezer (that you indicated earlier in the email).
Especially so if the rivet always bends in the one direction that you
seem to indicate. Any way to borrow hers for a day?
>4. Sets. Does having a slightly convexed flush set have any bearing on this
>problem? I put two flush sets in the squeezer for grins and brought them
>together to find them only touching in the center - they aren't perfectly
>flat. Should I try to sand one flat? I really don't think this is the
>problem either.
>
>
This is the normal shape for the flush sets. If they were flat, they
would mar the aluminum unless you kept them EXACTLY perpendicular to the
rivet/aluminum being set.
Dick Tasker
Message 4
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| Subject: | Squeezing out bad rivets |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Francis, David CMDR" <David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
Andrew,
I am going to be adventurous and attempt coaching across 10,000 miles.
My first observation is that unless you are a weight lifter or gorilla hand
squeezing AD4 rivets is very difficult. I hand squeeze AD3 only, AD4 are
just beyond me and I either rivet them or use a pneumatic squeezer. So my
advice is avoid the problem altogether and use a different tool, preferably
powered.
A personal view, but I don't like the Tatco squeezers, and prefer the much
more substantial Avery squeezer. I would only use a Tatco where I have a
confined space that the smaller Tatco will go where the Avery wont.
If you choose to stick to a hand squeezer push hard on the manufactured head
while squeezing the handle, and keeping the squeezer straight. You will need
heaps of strength to do this with an AD4 rivet.
Email me offline if you need elaboration.
Regards, David Francis, VH-ZEE, Canberra, Australia.
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Olech [mailto:olechap@comcast.net]
Subject: RV7-List: Squeezing out bad rivets
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Andrew Olech" <olechap@comcast.net>
I'm a beginning riveter, and I've just started trying to rivet the Vertical
stabilizer main spar to the doubler plate with some 470AD4-6's (RV7). I'm
somewhat new to this and slightly frustrated with the results I've been
getting so far.
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