Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:40 AM - The List Fund Raiser - Great Gifts! (Matt Dralle)
2. 05:25 AM - Re: Fuel tank leak blues (LarryRobertHelming)
3. 05:57 AM - Re: RV -7 with GRT EFIS and Dynon (DOUGPFLYRV@AOL.com)
4. 09:02 AM - Re: UNCLASSIFIED Fuel tank leak blues (Herron, Al)
5. 09:50 AM - Re: UNCLASSIFIED Fuel tank leak blues (Allen Fulmer)
6. 10:22 AM - Re: UNCLASSIFIED Fuel tank leak blues (Herron, Al)
7. 11:24 AM - Re: Fuel tank leak blues (B Tomm)
8. 01:22 PM - CH Products Control Stick Switches Electrical Specifications (Richard Tasker)
9. 08:34 PM - Orndorff videos index (JTAnon@AOL.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | The List Fund Raiser - Great Gifts! |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that we're well into this year's Email List Fund
Raiser! Response has been great so far and there has been a lot of
interest in the Gift options. Speaking of those Gifts, if you haven't
already checked out the nice selection you owe it to yourself to check them
out. They are once again provided by Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore
www.buildersbooks.com. The gifts this year include the following items:
* List Archive CD
* Aircraft Fuel Tester
* Builder's Logbook
* Mechanic's Toolbox CDROM
* 24 Years of the RVator
* Powerplant Video
* Jeppesen VFR Kneeboard
Won't you make a Contribution today to support the these valuable Email
List Services? Please remember that its YOUR generosity that entirely
supports the continued operation and upgrade of the Lists. That's it - no
ads, no banners, no SPAM, no virus, no pop-up ads - just good clean
fun! Well, that is, with your support of course!
Please take a moment and make a generous Contribution today. It only takes
a minute using the Contribution Web Site where you can use either a Credit
Card, PayPal, or a Personal Check to make your donation.
The URL for the SSL Secure Contribution web site can be found below and
also includes a complete description of this year's awesome gifts:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I'd like to say a special "thank you!" to everyone one who has made
Contribution so far this year!! I really appreciate your generosity!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank leak blues |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
>> I think I want to use the cork gasket when I put this back on because IF
I didn't stop the
leak, I really don't want to repeat the process of getting that access cover
off again. <<
Vans put a warning and advice out in this or last year's RVator on this
topic. They suggest now that the plates should not utilize the cork seals
because they will eventually leak. It might take years but their experience
shows they do deteriorate and leak with time. They now recommend to proseal
them. I removed my perfectly good cork seals that had been pressure tested
( I waited a full 6 months before testing them however) and redid them using
only proseal. I figure it is a lot less work now than later after they are
mounted on the fuselage. Check with Vans on this first to make sure they
have not changed their mind on this again. If you find what I am saying is
not currently true, post your results for all to see.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollins@visi.com>
Subject: RV7-List: Fuel tank leak blues
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollins@visi.com>
>
> I finished up the right (and final) tank Sunday by prosealing the access
> plate and fuel tank sender directly onto the rib. Then yesterday
(Tuesday),
> I built up enough nerve to test it out. Before I even got the manometer
> pumped to 2.6 psi, I could feel the breeze. Adding the soapy bubbles, I
> actually got the leak to blow a bubble about as big as a football. No
> problem finding the leak; it was along the bottom baffle-to-skin seam in
> the most inboard bay. Well, at least it was an area I could get to by
> removing the access cover.
>
> So I did. Man, proseal can really set up in two days. It was a rough trip
> prying that sucker off. But eventually I did and it took two hours of
> scraping and wiping with MEK to remove all the ProSeal from the rib and
> access cover.
>
> Then I filled a syringe with sealant and layed a huge glob inside along
the
> seam and just ont he other side of the rib.
>
> Now, here's the deal. As I was taking off the access cover, I realized
that
> this would really be a risky job if the sealant were more than 3 days old,
> to the point where it seemed perfectly possible to damage the rib. I
> thought, 'man, I'm not prosealing this directly onto the rib again.
>
> Now I know there's a zillion messages in the archive about other
> possibilities and I've reviewed half-a-zillion of them. I think I want to
> use the cork gasket when I put this back on because IF I didn't stop the
> leak, I really don't want to repeat theprocess of getting that access
cover
> off again.
>
> The question is on technique. Should I pro-seal both sides of the cork
> gasket and then put the access cover back on? Should I just Proseal the
> gasket to the rib? Should I just ProSeal the gasket to the cover? I'm just
> trying to figure out the best way to seal this thing (there was NOOOOO
way,
> the cover was going to leak the way I had prosealed it before; but it also
> seemed like there was no way that access cover was ever going to come off
in
> the future, which kinda takes away the point of having an access cover.
>
> What say you?
>
> Bob
> St. Paul
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RV -7 with GRT EFIS and Dynon |
--> RV7-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com
I have been looking for nice rocker switches also..............here is what i
am going with on our 7A. Haven't found much selection.
http://www.aerocraftparts.com/Categories.aspx?Category=38940ec0-b260-4e9f-a23c
-b80ff8e89c67
Message 4
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| Subject: | Fuel tank leak blues |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Herron, Al" <Al.Herron@Aerojet.com>
Maybe a little off subject, but "amen" to the Allen head screws. Especially
as your aircraft ages, the Phillips get to be a real pain, used to struggle
with them all the time on my 40-year old Cessna. I'm using Torx fasteners
on my RV wherever possible, #8 stainless are avialable from
http://www.microfasteners.com/. Either Allen or Torx are a big improvement
because you don't have to apply "down" force to keep the driver engaged with
the fastener head.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Imken
Subject: RE: UNCLASSIFIED RV7-List: Fuel tank leak blues
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Imken" <skikrazi@CenturyTel.net>
Bob,
I pro sealed everything that did not move and some things that did.....did
not use cork gaskets but did use #8 Allen head screws in lieu of Phillips
head screws-easier to tighten or remove. ......so far, no leaks. A friend
just replaced a Phillips head screw with an Allen head screw because of a
leak in his RV just over a year old (he did not Proseal the cork gaskets
when tanks were built).
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Francis, David CMDR
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RV7-List: Fuel tank leak blues
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Francis, David CMDR"
<David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
Bob,
Just to add to the squillion tank gasket sealing options. If you do want to
add sealer to the cork gasket but dont like fighting with cured proseal,
look for Loctite No3, its billed as an aviation gasket sealant that does not
set. It looks and smells like a variation of proseal that sets but stays
tacky like fresh chewing gum.
As a minimum it will be good to seal the threads of the screws on the tank
access hatch, I will be able to undo the screws with out destroying the
heads in the proces.
Keep bubbling along, David Francis, Canberra, Australia, waiting for the
engine.
-----Original Message-----
From: Norman Younie [mailto:rv6capt@pacificcoast.net]
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Fuel tank leak blues
--> RV7-List message posted by: Norman Younie <rv6capt@pacificcoast.net>
Don't proseal the cork. You will never get it off. I have built 3 RV's
now and they don't leak just using the cork.
Bob Collins wrote:
>--> RV7-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollins@visi.com>
>
>I finished up the right (and final) tank Sunday by prosealing the access
>plate and fuel tank sender directly onto the rib.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Fuel tank leak blues |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer@charter.net>
Someone said the difference between the stainless Torx version of a #8 and
the AN version is the shoulder on the AN whereas the threads go right up to
the head on the stainless Torx. I have both and can see this. Does anyone
know which one is actually stronger as one is stainless and the other AN
spec'd steel? Or does it not really matter in the case of fuel tank and
access plate attachment?
Thanks,
Allen Fulmer
RV7 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Herron, Al
Subject: RE: UNCLASSIFIED RV7-List: Fuel tank leak blues
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Herron, Al" <Al.Herron@Aerojet.com>
Maybe a little off subject, but "amen" to the Allen head screws. Especially
as your aircraft ages, the Phillips get to be a real pain, used to struggle
with them all the time on my 40-year old Cessna. I'm using Torx fasteners
on my RV wherever possible, #8 stainless are avialable from
http://www.microfasteners.com/. Either Allen or Torx are a big improvement
because you don't have to apply "down" force to keep the driver engaged with
the fastener head.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Imken
Subject: RE: UNCLASSIFIED RV7-List: Fuel tank leak blues
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Imken" <skikrazi@CenturyTel.net>
Bob,
I pro sealed everything that did not move and some things that did.....did
not use cork gaskets but did use #8 Allen head screws in lieu of Phillips
head screws-easier to tighten or remove. ......so far, no leaks. A friend
just replaced a Phillips head screw with an Allen head screw because of a
leak in his RV just over a year old (he did not Proseal the cork gaskets
when tanks were built).
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Francis, David CMDR
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RV7-List: Fuel tank leak blues
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Francis, David CMDR"
<David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
Bob,
Just to add to the squillion tank gasket sealing options. If you do want to
add sealer to the cork gasket but dont like fighting with cured proseal,
look for Loctite No3, its billed as an aviation gasket sealant that does not
set. It looks and smells like a variation of proseal that sets but stays
tacky like fresh chewing gum.
As a minimum it will be good to seal the threads of the screws on the tank
access hatch, I will be able to undo the screws with out destroying the
heads in the proces.
Keep bubbling along, David Francis, Canberra, Australia, waiting for the
engine.
-----Original Message-----
From: Norman Younie [mailto:rv6capt@pacificcoast.net]
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Fuel tank leak blues
--> RV7-List message posted by: Norman Younie <rv6capt@pacificcoast.net>
Don't proseal the cork. You will never get it off. I have built 3 RV's
now and they don't leak just using the cork.
Bob Collins wrote:
>--> RV7-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollins@visi.com>
>
>I finished up the right (and final) tank Sunday by prosealing the access
>plate and fuel tank sender directly onto the rib.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Fuel tank leak blues |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Herron, Al" <Al.Herron@Aerojet.com>
I've been told never use stainless in a structural application where the
strength of the fastener has been calculated to take a load. But for most
access panels, trim, etc., they should be fine, and those are the items you
take apart the most. Definitely check with Van's if you are in doubt about
whether the fastener is in a critical load path.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Allen Fulmer
Subject: RE: UNCLASSIFIED RV7-List: Fuel tank leak blues
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer@charter.net>
Someone said the difference between the stainless Torx version of a #8 and
the AN version is the shoulder on the AN whereas the threads go right up to
the head on the stainless Torx. I have both and can see this. Does anyone
know which one is actually stronger as one is stainless and the other AN
spec'd steel? Or does it not really matter in the case of fuel tank and
access plate attachment?
Thanks,
Allen Fulmer
RV7 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Herron, Al
Subject: RE: UNCLASSIFIED RV7-List: Fuel tank leak blues
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Herron, Al" <Al.Herron@Aerojet.com>
Maybe a little off subject, but "amen" to the Allen head screws. Especially
as your aircraft ages, the Phillips get to be a real pain, used to struggle
with them all the time on my 40-year old Cessna. I'm using Torx fasteners
on my RV wherever possible, #8 stainless are avialable from
http://www.microfasteners.com/. Either Allen or Torx are a big improvement
because you don't have to apply "down" force to keep the driver engaged with
the fastener head.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Imken
Subject: RE: UNCLASSIFIED RV7-List: Fuel tank leak blues
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Imken" <skikrazi@CenturyTel.net>
Bob,
I pro sealed everything that did not move and some things that did.....did
not use cork gaskets but did use #8 Allen head screws in lieu of Phillips
head screws-easier to tighten or remove. ......so far, no leaks. A friend
just replaced a Phillips head screw with an Allen head screw because of a
leak in his RV just over a year old (he did not Proseal the cork gaskets
when tanks were built).
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Francis, David CMDR
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RV7-List: Fuel tank leak blues
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Francis, David CMDR"
<David.Francis@defence.gov.au>
Bob,
Just to add to the squillion tank gasket sealing options. If you do want to
add sealer to the cork gasket but dont like fighting with cured proseal,
look for Loctite No3, its billed as an aviation gasket sealant that does not
set. It looks and smells like a variation of proseal that sets but stays
tacky like fresh chewing gum.
As a minimum it will be good to seal the threads of the screws on the tank
access hatch, I will be able to undo the screws with out destroying the
heads in the proces.
Keep bubbling along, David Francis, Canberra, Australia, waiting for the
engine.
-----Original Message-----
From: Norman Younie [mailto:rv6capt@pacificcoast.net]
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Fuel tank leak blues
--> RV7-List message posted by: Norman Younie <rv6capt@pacificcoast.net>
Don't proseal the cork. You will never get it off. I have built 3 RV's
now and they don't leak just using the cork.
Bob Collins wrote:
>--> RV7-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollins@visi.com>
>
>I finished up the right (and final) tank Sunday by prosealing the access
>plate and fuel tank sender directly onto the rib.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Fuel tank leak blues |
--> RV7-List message posted by: B Tomm <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
For those that have opened the sealed coveres, can you offer any tips that
made the removal job easier? I've heard that heating the proseal with a
heat gun softens it a bit making it easier to remove. What have others
found?
Bevan
RV7A with corked and prosealed covers
-----Original Message-----
From: LarryRobertHelming [SMTP:lhelming@sigecom.net]
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Fuel tank leak blues
--> RV7-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
>> I think I want to use the cork gasket when I put this back on because IF
I didn't stop the
leak, I really don't want to repeat the process of getting that access
cover
off again. <<
Vans put a warning and advice out in this or last year's RVator on this
topic. They suggest now that the plates should not utilize the cork seals
because they will eventually leak. It might take years but their
experience
shows they do deteriorate and leak with time. They now recommend to
proseal
them. I removed my perfectly good cork seals that had been pressure tested
( I waited a full 6 months before testing them however) and redid them
using
only proseal. I figure it is a lot less work now than later after they are
mounted on the fuselage. Check with Vans on this first to make sure they
have not changed their mind on this again. If you find what I am saying is
not currently true, post your results for all to see.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollins@visi.com>
Subject: RV7-List: Fuel tank leak blues
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollins@visi.com>
>
> I finished up the right (and final) tank Sunday by prosealing the access
> plate and fuel tank sender directly onto the rib. Then yesterday
(Tuesday),
> I built up enough nerve to test it out. Before I even got the manometer
> pumped to 2.6 psi, I could feel the breeze. Adding the soapy bubbles, I
> actually got the leak to blow a bubble about as big as a football. No
> problem finding the leak; it was along the bottom baffle-to-skin seam in
> the most inboard bay. Well, at least it was an area I could get to by
> removing the access cover.
>
> So I did. Man, proseal can really set up in two days. It was a rough trip
> prying that sucker off. But eventually I did and it took two hours of
> scraping and wiping with MEK to remove all the ProSeal from the rib and
> access cover.
>
> Then I filled a syringe with sealant and layed a huge glob inside along
the
> seam and just ont he other side of the rib.
>
> Now, here's the deal. As I was taking off the access cover, I realized
that
> this would really be a risky job if the sealant were more than 3 days
old,
> to the point where it seemed perfectly possible to damage the rib. I
> thought, 'man, I'm not prosealing this directly onto the rib again.
>
> Now I know there's a zillion messages in the archive about other
> possibilities and I've reviewed half-a-zillion of them. I think I want to
> use the cork gasket when I put this back on because IF I didn't stop the
> leak, I really don't want to repeat theprocess of getting that access
cover
> off again.
>
> The question is on technique. Should I pro-seal both sides of the cork
> gasket and then put the access cover back on? Should I just Proseal the
> gasket to the rib? Should I just ProSeal the gasket to the cover? I'm
just
> trying to figure out the best way to seal this thing (there was NOOOOO
way,
> the cover was going to leak the way I had prosealed it before; but it
also
> seemed like there was no way that access cover was ever going to come off
in
> the future, which kinda takes away the point of having an access cover.
>
> What say you?
>
> Bob
> St. Paul
Message 8
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| Subject: | CH Products Control Stick Switches Electrical Specifications |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
There has been discussions about the CH Products control sticks (http://www.chproducts.com/retail/aircraft.html) on the newsgroups lately. I have two of them, but there was a question about what the switch ratings were. I contacted Kevin Williamson of CH
Products and he was kind enough to supply me with a set of sample switches (from
Omron) and the part numbers thereof.
I downloaded the complete data sheet from the web, reviewed the specifications
and then called the Omron factory representative. There are a few minor errors
in the datasheet available on the web, so the rep emailed me the revised (corrected)
sheets. I
also discussed with him the specifications listed and got clarification, although
it turned out that when I received the revised data sheets, the specification
is very clear now.
The bottom line is that the electrical rating for all three different switches
is: 1-50mA, at 5-24V.
The explanation for the ratings is:
1. The lower values (1 mA at 5V) are to make sure that the switch sees enough energy
when switching to keep the contacts clean. Any lower values would not guarantee
that the contacts will always make proper contact over the life of the
switch. If for
some reason the load being switched is too low, a resistor could be added in parallel
with the load to increase the current to at least 1 mA.
2. The higher values (50 mA at 24V) are the maximum values that should be switched
that will not damage the switch. Switching any higher loads will risk damaging
the contacts - either welding them shut or warping them or causing excessive
arc damage - and
will certainly shorten the life of the switch.
3. These ratings are for a resistive load, so if they are to be used with a relay
or motor the contacts MUST be protected with a diode or other type of snubber
network!
Of course, the manufacturer always has a margin in the design so if one chooses
to switch 55mA at 14V (for instance), the switch will probably still have a reasonable
life. However, pushing them to 100 mA or more will definitely shorten
the life and may
result in a catastrophic failure at some point.
These switches are rated for a lot of actuations so their use in an airplane should
be no problem. The hat switches are rated for 300,000 operations (minimum),
the switches on the top face of the stick are rated for 100,000 operations
(minimum) and the
trigger (typically used for push-to-talk) is rated for 1,000,000 operations (minimum).
To put these numbers in perspective, let's assume you make one flight every day
for ten years. For each flight you could use the hat switch to trim the airplane
82 times in each direction, you could actuate the flaps (assuming that is
what you use the two
gray switches on the top of the stick for) 27 times each up and down and you could
push-to-talk 274 times.
I am satisfied that the switches used are as robust as you will find and the ratings
are adequate for the task. Just don't go overboard on what you connect
direct to the switches and your CH Products control stick will have a long and
happy life!
Dick Tasker
Message 9
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| Subject: | Orndorff videos index |
--> RV7-List message posted by: JTAnon@aol.com
Hi All,
Has anyone indexed the Orndoff videos. Specifically the finish kit set?
John McDonnell
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