Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:01 AM - Re: Fuel tank to main skin gap? (Norman Younie)
2. 07:17 AM - Re: Fuel tank to main skin gap? (Bob Collins)
3. 07:25 AM - Re: Fuel tank to main skin gap? (Bob Collins)
4. 07:47 AM - Fuel injection system (LARRY RUSH)
5. 07:58 AM - Re: Fuel injection system (Dwight Frye)
6. 08:18 AM - Re: Fuel injection system (BPA)
7. 09:03 AM - Re: Fuel injection system (Brian Meyette)
8. 09:05 AM - Re: Fuel injection system (Norman Younie)
9. 12:01 PM - Re: Fuel injection system (Brooks Wolfe)
10. 12:44 PM - Re: Fuel injection system (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
11. 12:51 PM - Re: Fuel injection system (Dan Checkoway)
12. 02:07 PM - Re: Fuel injection system (DonVS)
13. 02:39 PM - Re: Speaking of Aerosport (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
14. 03:45 PM - Deburring (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
15. 04:12 PM - Re: Deburring (Cammie Patch)
16. 04:45 PM - Re: Deburring (Herron, Al)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank to main skin gap? |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Norman Younie <rv6capt@pacificcoast.net>
You will have to remove the excess pro-seal. There is no room for it . I
have built six sets of tanks and have learn the hard way myself.
Merems wrote:
>--> RV7-List message posted by: "Merems" <merems@cox.net>
>
>Fellow builders,
>
>I just placed my finished left fuel tank (RV-7A) on my wing and noticed a gap
between the aft edge of the tank skin and the forward edge of the main skins on
my wing (top and bottom gap equal). I opted to wait to match drill and dimple
the leading edge junction until after sealing the tanks. I have measured the
edge distance of the screw holes in the tank skin and compared this to the
center distance from the nutplate holes (countersinked) to the forward edge of
the main tank skins, both are 5/16". So what this means is that there is a buildup
of tolerances or ProSeal that is pushing the tank forward slightly. I
would say that the gap is approximately 0.040. However the tank to leading edge
junction (at the nose) is pretty much of a perfect match. So the screw holes
in the tank don't line up with the nutplates perfectly. I was generous with
"buttering" the ProSeal on both the "Z" bracket and tank rib aft flanges but
not over generous. I know there is a very thin laye!
>r of ProSeal that maybe contributing to this gap, but not that much. When I built
my RV-4 (old school) you could line everything up without any gaps because
you put all the hole. With the match punched, you can't adjust things at all.
>
>What have other experienced after mounting the tanks.
>
>Paul (RV-4/RV-7A)
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank to main skin gap? |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Bob Collins <bcollins747_1999@yahoo.com>
It may not necessarily be a build-up of ProSeal and
I'm aware of several people who actually filed their
z-brackets to compensate.
When I was building my first tank, I had the same
problem and on the archives, I read several similar
problems. Then I did a simple thing and the problem
disappeared.
I returned the jack to the wing jig, centered it on
the spar, and gave it a couple of cranks. There was a
minor pop, and all of a sudden the tank fit perfectly.
The "clue" here is the fact the nose gap is perfect
but the gap appears to increase as you go farther aft.
Since sharing this information in the spring, I've
seen several people have the same problem, and giving
the spar a little help cured it.
I can't guarantee this is your problem, but I would at
least try it before taking any other "invasive"
action. It's worked for other people.
Bob
St. Paul
--- Norman Younie <rv6capt@pacificcoast.net> wrote:
> >--> RV7-List message posted by: "Merems"
> <merems@cox.net>
> >
> >Fellow builders,
> >
> >I just placed my finished left fuel tank (RV-7A) on
> my wing and noticed a gap between the aft edge of
> the tank skin and the forward edge of the main skins
> on my wing (top and bottom gap equal). I opted to
> wait to match drill and dimple the leading edge
> junction until after sealing the tanks. I have
> measured the edge distance of the screw holes in the
> tank skin and compared this to the center distance
> from the nutplate holes (countersinked) to the
> forward edge of the main tank skins, both are 5/16".
> So what this means is that there is a buildup of
> tolerances or ProSeal that is pushing the tank
> forward slightly. I would say that the gap is
> approximately 0.040. However the tank to leading
> edge junction (at the nose) is pretty much of a
> perfect match. So the screw holes in the tank don't
> line up with the nutplates perfectly. I was
> generous with "buttering" the ProSeal on both the
> "Z" bracket and tank rib aft flanges but not over
> generous. I know there is a very thin lay!
> e!
> >r of ProSeal that maybe contributing to this gap,
> but not that much. When I built my RV-4 (old school)
> you could line everything up without any gaps
> because you put all the hole. With the match
> punched, you can't adjust things at all.
> >
> >What have other experienced after mounting the
> tanks.
> >
> >Paul (RV-4/RV-7A)
> >
> >
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank to main skin gap? |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Bob Collins <bcollins747_1999@yahoo.com>
I also left one thing out. In working and mounting my
second tank, I came up with a process of mounting it
that helped. Initially, I just plopped it on and
looked at all the gaps that didn't fit right etc.
Then, for the heck of it, I tried a bunch of different
combinations of things to make the mounting process
more precise.
I can't say for sure this will work for you, but I can
say for sure that I've found this procedure to result
in the best fit. It's worth trying.
1)Run a bolt in the middle of the most inboard
zbracket to line things up. The gap between the
leading edge will be wide, but don't worry! It'll work
out.
2)Install bolts in the upper holes of all zbrackets
to spar connections
3) Install bolts on the bottom side of all
connections.
4) Install the middle bolt on all zbracket to spar
connections. This will pull the tank down and I find
the gap between leading edge and tank becomes perfect
(assuming you used the Checkoway method).
5)Add the screws on the skin
Try this in addition to my previous note about adding
the support to the jig and see what happens.
BC
__________________________________
Message 4
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| Subject: | Fuel injection system |
Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:44:32 -0500
--> RV7-List message posted by: "LARRY RUSH" <K9HXT@msn.com>
I am working on the fuselage (QB) now and noticed the location for the std fuel
pump is already done on the firewall. I am thinking about going to a IO-360 and
wonder if anyone knows the recommended high presure fuel pump location. I don't
see any info on Van's web site etc. and nothing in the drawings I have.
Thanks,
Larry, RV-7A working
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel injection system |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
Start at http://www.rvproject.com/20030115.html which is where Dan
starts talking about his fuel pump installation. Basically it mounts
on the floor between the seats, just under where the fuel selector
mounts.
-- Dwight (who'll be doing the same thing soon ... )
do not archive
On Wed Dec 8 10:44:32 2004, LARRY RUSH wrote :
>I am working on the fuselage (QB) now and noticed the location for the std fuel
pump is already done on the firewall. I am thinking about going to a IO-360
and wonder if anyone knows the recommended high presure fuel pump location. I
don't see any info on Van's web site etc. and nothing in the drawings I have.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Fuel injection system |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "BPA" <BPA@BPAENGINES.COM>
Larry,
Would you be referring to the boost pump by chance as the fuel pump is
on the engine at the lower left corner on the accessory section. You are
welcome to visit our web site a see our engine packages. Especially the
ALL NEW Lycoming IO-390X. Our address is bpa@bpaengines.com. Or call us.
We would be more than happy to discuss your engine needs in detail.
Sincerely,
Allen Barrett
Barrett Performance Aircraft, Inc.
2870-B N. Sheridan Rd.
Tulsa, OK 74115
[918] 835-1089 phone
[918] 835-1754 fax
www.bpaengines.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LARRY RUSH
Subject: RV7-List: Fuel injection system
--> RV7-List message posted by: "LARRY RUSH" <K9HXT@msn.com>
I am working on the fuselage (QB) now and noticed the location for the
std fuel pump is already done on the firewall. I am thinking about going
to a IO-360 and wonder if anyone knows the recommended high presure fuel
pump location. I don't see any info on Van's web site etc. and nothing
in the drawings I have.
Thanks,
Larry, RV-7A working
Message 7
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| Subject: | Fuel injection system |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic@starband.net>
Also, when you get your FI pump from Van's, it will come with drawings
telling you where it goes and how you have to modify your center console
covers to put it in. Some pics & details at
http://brian76.mystarband.net/June03fuse.htm starting with June 17
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dwight Frye
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Fuel injection system
--> RV7-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
Start at http://www.rvproject.com/20030115.html which is where Dan
starts talking about his fuel pump installation. Basically it mounts
on the floor between the seats, just under where the fuel selector
mounts.
-- Dwight (who'll be doing the same thing soon ... )
do not archive
On Wed Dec 8 10:44:32 2004, LARRY RUSH wrote :
>I am working on the fuselage (QB) now and noticed the location for the std
fuel pump is already done on the firewall. I am thinking about going to a
IO-360 and wonder if anyone knows the recommended high presure fuel pump
location. I don't see any info on Van's web site etc. and nothing in the
drawings I have.
---
---
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel injection system |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Norman Younie <rv6capt@pacificcoast.net>
same holes same location works fine.
Dwight Frye wrote:
>--> RV7-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
>
>Start at http://www.rvproject.com/20030115.html which is where Dan
>starts talking about his fuel pump installation. Basically it mounts
>on the floor between the seats, just under where the fuel selector
>mounts.
>
> -- Dwight (who'll be doing the same thing soon ... )
>
>do not archive
>
>On Wed Dec 8 10:44:32 2004, LARRY RUSH wrote :
>
>
>>I am working on the fuselage (QB) now and noticed the location for the std fuel
pump is already done on the firewall. I am thinking about going to a IO-360
and wonder if anyone knows the recommended high presure fuel pump location. I
don't see any info on Van's web site etc. and nothing in the drawings I have.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel injection system |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Brooks Wolfe" <slipstream13@earthlink.net>
Looks like an interesting setup, though with the price from Van's, I can see
why Dan C. procrastinated on buying them. Always admire his workmanship
regardless.. It seems an odd location for a high-pressure fuel pump,
however. Do they make a lot of noise?
I'm headed towards an automotive installation (13b), and was simply
considering auto pumps mounted in the tanks, or close by. Tracy Crook
(http://www.rotaryaviation.com/) sells 'em for $95 each. Does anyone have
any experience with this?
Brooks
Do not archive
-------Original Message-------
From: rv7-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Fuel injection system
--> RV7-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
Start at http://www.rvproject.com/20030115.html which is where Dan
starts talking about his fuel pump installation. Basically it mounts
on the floor between the seats, just under where the fuel selector
mounts.
-- Dwight (who'll be doing the same thing soon ... )
do not archive
On Wed Dec 8 10:44:32 2004, LARRY RUSH wrote :
>I am working on the fuselage (QB) now and noticed the location for the std
fuel pump is already done on the firewall. I am thinking about going to a
IO-360 and wonder if anyone knows the recommended high presure fuel pump
location. I don't see any info on Van's web site etc. and nothing in the
drawings I have.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Fuel injection system |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
And close to the tanks is hydraulically the correct place to put them.
Try to avoid sucking on any part of the fuel system (especially with
auto gas as it has a much higher vapour pressure)....Vapour lock on take
off is a BAD thing to have happen.
I am thinking the same approach for my Lycosaurus and junking the engine
driven pump.
The really cool thing is then you don't need a fuel selector
valve...Simply switch pumps to switch tanks and make sure the fuel can't
backflow thru the non running pump.
As I will need to regulate the fuel pressure I will probably put a reg
for each pump at the pump in the wing roots and add a non return valve
downstream to prevent cross streaming.
This is the setup I have on my current aircraft (no regulators needed
however as it has carbs). Works very sweet.
Make sure you have two independent electrical sources (Batteries and the
alternator needs to have a diode feeding the second battery) to feed the
pumps as you don't want any single points of failure.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brooks Wolfe
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Fuel injection system
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Brooks Wolfe"
--> <slipstream13@earthlink.net>
Looks like an interesting setup, though with the price from Van's, I can
see why Dan C. procrastinated on buying them. Always admire his
workmanship regardless.. It seems an odd location for a high-pressure
fuel pump, however. Do they make a lot of noise?
I'm headed towards an automotive installation (13b), and was simply
considering auto pumps mounted in the tanks, or close by. Tracy Crook
(http://www.rotaryaviation.com/) sells 'em for $95 each. Does anyone
have any experience with this?
Brooks
Do not archive
-------Original Message-------
From: rv7-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Fuel injection system
--> RV7-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
Start at http://www.rvproject.com/20030115.html which is where Dan
starts talking about his fuel pump installation. Basically it mounts on
the floor between the seats, just under where the fuel selector mounts.
-- Dwight (who'll be doing the same thing soon ... )
do not archive
On Wed Dec 8 10:44:32 2004, LARRY RUSH wrote :
>I am working on the fuselage (QB) now and noticed the location for the
>std
fuel pump is already done on the firewall. I am thinking about going to
a IO-360 and wonder if anyone knows the recommended high presure fuel
pump location. I don't see any info on Van's web site etc. and nothing
in the drawings I have.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel injection system |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
FYI, when I bought my engine from AeroSport Power, it came with the AFP pump
& filter. Keep this in mind if you intend to order an engine with AFP
injection.
I had already installed the ones I got from Van's, so I sold the pump &
filter that came with the engine.
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (303 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brooks Wolfe" <slipstream13@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Fuel injection system
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Brooks Wolfe"
<slipstream13@earthlink.net>
>
> Looks like an interesting setup, though with the price from Van's, I can
see
> why Dan C. procrastinated on buying them. Always admire his workmanship
> regardless.. It seems an odd location for a high-pressure fuel pump,
> however. Do they make a lot of noise?
>
> I'm headed towards an automotive installation (13b), and was simply
> considering auto pumps mounted in the tanks, or close by. Tracy Crook
> (http://www.rotaryaviation.com/) sells 'em for $95 each. Does anyone have
> any experience with this?
>
> Brooks
>
> Do not archive
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: rv7-list@matronics.com
> Date: 12/08/04 08:01:04
> To: rv7-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Fuel injection system
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
>
> Start at http://www.rvproject.com/20030115.html which is where Dan
> starts talking about his fuel pump installation. Basically it mounts
> on the floor between the seats, just under where the fuel selector
> mounts.
>
> -- Dwight (who'll be doing the same thing soon ... )
>
> do not archive
>
> On Wed Dec 8 10:44:32 2004, LARRY RUSH wrote :
> >I am working on the fuselage (QB) now and noticed the location for the
std
> fuel pump is already done on the firewall. I am thinking about going to a
> IO-360 and wonder if anyone knows the recommended high presure fuel pump
> location. I don't see any info on Van's web site etc. and nothing in the
> drawings I have.
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Fuel injection system |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "DonVS" <dsvs@comcast.net>
Dan,
Aerosport no longer includes the boost pump as part of the package. They
still sell it, but, it is an extra. Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Fuel injection system
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
FYI, when I bought my engine from AeroSport Power, it came with the AFP pump
& filter. Keep this in mind if you intend to order an engine with AFP
injection.
I had already installed the ones I got from Van's, so I sold the pump &
filter that came with the engine.
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (303 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brooks Wolfe" <slipstream13@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Fuel injection system
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Brooks Wolfe"
<slipstream13@earthlink.net>
>
> Looks like an interesting setup, though with the price from Van's, I can
see
> why Dan C. procrastinated on buying them. Always admire his workmanship
> regardless.. It seems an odd location for a high-pressure fuel pump,
> however. Do they make a lot of noise?
>
> I'm headed towards an automotive installation (13b), and was simply
> considering auto pumps mounted in the tanks, or close by. Tracy Crook
> (http://www.rotaryaviation.com/) sells 'em for $95 each. Does anyone have
> any experience with this?
>
> Brooks
>
> Do not archive
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: rv7-list@matronics.com
> Date: 12/08/04 08:01:04
> To: rv7-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV7-List: Fuel injection system
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
>
> Start at http://www.rvproject.com/20030115.html which is where Dan
> starts talking about his fuel pump installation. Basically it mounts
> on the floor between the seats, just under where the fuel selector
> mounts.
>
> -- Dwight (who'll be doing the same thing soon ... )
>
> do not archive
>
> On Wed Dec 8 10:44:32 2004, LARRY RUSH wrote :
> >I am working on the fuselage (QB) now and noticed the location for the
std
> fuel pump is already done on the firewall. I am thinking about going to a
> IO-360 and wonder if anyone knows the recommended high presure fuel pump
> location. I don't see any info on Van's web site etc. and nothing in the
> drawings I have.
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Speaking of Aerosport |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Speaking of aerosport,
A couple of snippets they gave me....
1) The Superior parts built engine has a much better warranty as far as
using premium autogas.
2) They can supply the flstic FF sump for $500 less than their standard
FF cast sump.
3) They are happy to retard the Max advance on the LS ignition to give a
better detonation margin for use with 92 octane...I was going to have
them set the max to 40 as opposed to the 45 deg standard.
Can't afford my engine till about June next year (to tight to borrow
money), just hoping the price doesn't sky rocket due to the poor US
exchange rate?
Frank
Message 14
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hi All,
So having built a different manufacturer's plane before one brings a few
ideas that are not part of the Van's verbage...The fact that my old
Zenair zodiac (made entirely of non alclad 6061) is ONLY primed between
the mating surfaces being one of them.
So how about this...When deburring I found that if I use a sharp drill
there is very little burr on the drilled parts. Using the deburring tool
seems to have a very small improvement according to the "finger" test.
I have been experimenting and found that I can get much better (and
faster) results by rubbing with a fine scotchbite pad (or even the very
fine scotchbrite flap wheels mounted in a drill). The rason I came up
with this is that Zenair suggested beburing by rubbing a file across the
holes....A little too scratchy for me but the scotch brite pad/wheel
gives much smoother results.
Of course it does remove a bit more of the alclad so I tend to prime a
little more with my rattle can than I otherwise would.
Any thoughts on this approach good or bad?
Frank
Message 15
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Cammie Patch" <cammie@sunvalley.net>
I've found the scotchbrite to work great for deburring, especially on the
skins. (I prime them)
Cammie
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hi All,
So how about this...When deburring I found that if I use a sharp drill
there is very little burr on the drilled parts. Using the deburring tool
seems to have a very small improvement according to the "finger" test.
I have been experimenting and found that I can get much better (and
faster) results by rubbing with a fine scotchbite pad (or even the very
fine scotchbrite flap wheels mounted in a drill). The rason I came up
with this is that Zenair suggested beburing by rubbing a file across the
holes....A little too scratchy for me but the scotch brite pad/wheel
gives much smoother results.
Of course it does remove a bit more of the alclad so I tend to prime a
little more with my rattle can than I otherwise would.
Any thoughts on this approach good or bad?
Frank
Message 16
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Herron, Al" <Al.Herron@Aerojet.com>
I also find that a drill bit seems to do a better job than the deburring
tool, especially on the smaller holes. I think Van's even recommends this
method somewhere in the build manual, if I recall correctly. Drill bits are
too long to fit in some spots - I've also used a countersink bit to reach in
tight spots (by hand).
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank
George (Corvallis)
Subject: RV7-List: Deburring
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hi All,
So having built a different manufacturer's plane before one brings a few
ideas that are not part of the Van's verbage...The fact that my old
Zenair zodiac (made entirely of non alclad 6061) is ONLY primed between
the mating surfaces being one of them.
So how about this...When deburring I found that if I use a sharp drill
there is very little burr on the drilled parts. Using the deburring tool
seems to have a very small improvement according to the "finger" test.
I have been experimenting and found that I can get much better (and
faster) results by rubbing with a fine scotchbite pad (or even the very
fine scotchbrite flap wheels mounted in a drill). The rason I came up
with this is that Zenair suggested beburing by rubbing a file across the
holes....A little too scratchy for me but the scotch brite pad/wheel
gives much smoother results.
Of course it does remove a bit more of the alclad so I tend to prime a
little more with my rattle can than I otherwise would.
Any thoughts on this approach good or bad?
Frank
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