Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:24 AM - Re: Another riveting question (Sargentclt@cs.com)
2. 08:19 AM - Re: Another riveting question (LARRY RUSH)
3. 09:48 AM - Re: Another riveting question (Sargentclt@cs.com)
4. 11:14 AM - RV7a Rudder edge rivetting (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
5. 11:15 AM - Re: Another riveting question (Hopperdhh@AOL.com)
6. 11:29 AM - Re: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting (Hopperdhh@AOL.com)
7. 11:30 AM - Re: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting (Dan Checkoway)
8. 11:45 AM - Re: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
9. 11:50 AM - Re: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting (Stein Bruch)
10. 12:07 PM - Re: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting (Bob Smith)
11. 12:12 PM - Re: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting (George Neal E Capt AU/PC)
12. 12:35 PM - Re: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting (Herron, Al)
13. 01:00 PM - And another one (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
14. 01:22 PM - Re: And another one (Walter Tondu)
15. 01:52 PM - Re: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting (Bellwa77@AOL.com)
16. 02:00 PM - Re: And another one (Dave Figgins)
17. 02:06 PM - Re: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
18. 03:38 PM - Re: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting (Herron, Al)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Another riveting question |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Sargentclt@cs.com
Dan I am building a 7A and I would very much like to see yours, you know the keep
building encouragement kind of thing
Hopperdhh@AOL.com wrote:
>--> RV7-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 12/11/04 3:27:09 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>Bellwa77@AOL.com writes:
>
>> Its a shame I learn all these things
>> about halfway thru any process. Thanks for the tape idea whoever that was.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>
>That's why we build another airplane!
>
>Dan Hopper
>RV-7A (Flying)
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Another riveting question |
Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:45:51 -0500
--> RV7-List message posted by: "LARRY RUSH" <K9HXT@msn.com>
When using the flush riveting head try putting masking tape on the tool face.
Larry, RV-7A working (3rd RV)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Another riveting question |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Sargentclt@cs.com
Last 7A message from
Tad Sargent
Hopperdhh@AOL.com wrote:
>--> RV7-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 12/11/04 3:27:09 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>Bellwa77@AOL.com writes:
>
>> Its a shame I learn all these things
>> about halfway thru any process. Thanks for the tape idea whoever that was.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>
>That's why we build another airplane!
>
>Dan Hopper
>RV-7A (Flying)
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | RV7a Rudder edge rivetting |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Morning all,
So I glued up my rudder trailing edge on Saturday...I actually used
Vulkem 116 building caulking as I didn't have any epoxy...Given time
this stuff sets up like the stickiest stuff on the planet so we'll see
how that goes.
So to set the rivets it says to use a dimple...eh what?...do they mean a
female dimple?
Are there any tricks you guys can pass along to get the best
results....I assume you set with a squeezer?
Thanks
Frank
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Another riveting question |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
In a message dated 12/13/04 10:24:53 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
Sargentclt@cs.com writes:
>
> Dan I am building a 7A and I would very much like to see yours, you know
> the keep building encouragement kind of thing
>
>
Come to Robison (pvt) just W of Peru, IN, and see it. Or, if you're not too
far away I'll come see you. Where are you located?
Dan
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Frank,
Here are a few tips --- all my opinion, of course.
You should have countersunk the wedge extrusion that goes between the skins,
and dimpled both skins.
Alternate the direction you insert the rivets from, to avoid any tendency to
curl the TE. Keep this straight by marking every other one with a Sharpie.
I used a back rivet plate and flush set in the rivet gun. Start at the
center and work both ways, although this probably doesn't matter. Just make sure
that the shop heads are not above the surface if you are going to back rivet,
so they don't interfere with the next rivet and cause a problem.
To be honest, mine isn't perfect -- I think because I didn't use any
adhesive. The adhesive is very important to keep the edge straight.
Hope this helps,
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
N766DH (Flying since July)
In a message dated 12/13/04 2:15:27 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
frank.hinde@hp.com writes:
> So to set the rivets it says to use a dimple...eh what?...do they mean a
> female dimple?
>
> Are there any tricks you guys can pass along to get the best
> results....I assume you set with a squeezer?
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> Vulkem 116 building caulking as I didn't have any epoxy...Given time
Hope that's not corrosive to aluminum...
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | RV7a Rudder edge rivetting |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Me too!
I know building flashing is often made of aluminium so I would doubt
it...Hate to be building a new rudder in a few years....:)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
Subject: Re: RV7-List: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> Vulkem 116 building caulking as I didn't have any epoxy...Given time
Hope that's not corrosive to aluminum...
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | RV7a Rudder edge rivetting |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
As said before, the aluminum wedge should already be coutersunk and the
skins already dimpled.
Now, I don't know if I would necessarily squeeze them with a squeezer
becaues you're working on two angeled surfaces, and on top of that you're
filling one of the dimples with the shop head/bucktail of the rivet. I did
mine with no adhesive at all, just a nice big back rivet plate I made out of
some 1/4" steel about 6"x12" in size. That allowed me to gently rivet every
5th rivet partially back and forth until the whole edge was done.
The key is not to completely rivet from one end to the other, that will
invite a twist, but rather to slightly rivet the edge back and forth until
they are perfect. You don't want to set the rivets completely on the first
shot either, take two or three passes to get them completely set and you
can/will keep the whole thing straight as an arrow. My rudder ended up
nearly perfect (lined up with one of those cheapo laser level thingies) and
only took a little while to do.
Just my 2 cents as usual.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis (one has an RV7 tail on it so this qualifies for the
above response..I think :)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank
George (Corvallis)
Subject: RV7-List: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
Morning all,
So I glued up my rudder trailing edge on Saturday...I actually used
Vulkem 116 building caulking as I didn't have any epoxy...Given time
this stuff sets up like the stickiest stuff on the planet so we'll see
how that goes.
So to set the rivets it says to use a dimple...eh what?...do they mean a
female dimple?
Are there any tricks you guys can pass along to get the best
results....I assume you set with a squeezer?
Thanks
Frank
Message 10
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| Subject: | RV7a Rudder edge rivetting |
13:06:56,
Serialize by Router on slcnot1/SCT(Release 6.0.4|June 01, 2004) at 12/13/2004
13:06:57,
Serialize complete at 12/13/2004 13:06:57,
Itemize by SMTP Server on sctmnot9/SCT(Release 6.0.4HF100 | September 14,
2004) at
12/13/2004 15:06:57,
Serialize by Router on sctmnot9/SCT(Release 6.0.4HF100 | September 14,
2004) at
12/13/2004 15:06:57,
Serialize complete at 12/13/2004 15:06:57
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Bob Smith" <rvator@lindonnet.com>
I actually drilled holes (not all the way through) in my back-rivet plate so
I could cleco the rudder to the plate, and also counter-sunk the plate in a
big piece of MDF. Then I could drill more holes in the MDF so that the
rudder could be held flat against a larger area. Didn't use any adhesive
and it seemed to work great!
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Hopperdhh@AOL.com
Subject: Re: RV7-List: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting
--> RV7-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Frank,
Here are a few tips --- all my opinion, of course.
You should have countersunk the wedge extrusion that goes between the skins,
and dimpled both skins.
Alternate the direction you insert the rivets from, to avoid any tendency to
curl the TE. Keep this straight by marking every other one with a Sharpie.
I used a back rivet plate and flush set in the rivet gun. Start at the
center and work both ways, although this probably doesn't matter. Just make
sure
that the shop heads are not above the surface if you are going to back
rivet,
so they don't interfere with the next rivet and cause a problem.
To be honest, mine isn't perfect -- I think because I didn't use any
adhesive. The adhesive is very important to keep the edge straight.
Hope this helps,
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
N766DH (Flying since July)
Message 11
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| Subject: | RV7a Rudder edge rivetting |
--> RV7-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
Frank -
I believe the instructions recommend using a cupped set for AN470 rivets to
start the shop head, then switching to a flush set to finish.
If memory serves, I shimmed the rudder LE to get the TE to lay flat on my
back-riveting plate. Then used the back-rivet set to start the rivet, flush
set to finish. I started in the center, then did the ends, then moved to
the center between two of the just-set rivets, basically splitting a
progressively smaller gap. Mine came out dead straight. I used 30-min
epoxy on the AEX wedge.
I've heard that starting at one end or the middle and working straight out
will often result in a bowed TE.
Neal
RV-7 Wings
RV-8 Emp
Message 12
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| Subject: | RV7a Rudder edge rivetting |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Herron, Al" <Al.Herron@Aerojet.com>
Exactly the same way I did it, same result. I used the tank sealant, but I
think I'd use the epoxy if I had to do it again, less messy. Main thing is
to rivet a little at a time and check the TE often to make sure it's still
straight. I worried for two weeks ahead about this step, turned out to be
no big deal.
Al Herron
RV-7A QB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of George Neal E
Capt AU/PC
Subject: RE: RV7-List: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting
--> RV7-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC
<Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
Frank -
I believe the instructions recommend using a cupped set for AN470 rivets to
start the shop head, then switching to a flush set to finish.
If memory serves, I shimmed the rudder LE to get the TE to lay flat on my
back-riveting plate. Then used the back-rivet set to start the rivet, flush
set to finish. I started in the center, then did the ends, then moved to
the center between two of the just-set rivets, basically splitting a
progressively smaller gap. Mine came out dead straight. I used 30-min
epoxy on the AEX wedge.
I've heard that starting at one end or the middle and working straight out
will often result in a bowed TE.
Neal
RV-7 Wings
RV-8 Emp
Message 13
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Thanks for the help on the TE rivetting.
Another one is the AN470 rivets in the spars. Having squeezed a dozen
rivets I could see this was going to be a painful experience. So on the
VS spar I drilled the back plate to accept a cupped rivet set, got the
back rivet set in the gun and started pounding away.
I noticed however that the rivets have a tendancy to bend instead of
driving straight. I'm thinking that if I support the spar better I might
have better results with the HS spar because I can have two hands on the
rivet gun to stop it wandering.
I may have had the air pressure up a bit high too.
Has anyone had good or bad results with this method?...Its certainly a
whole lot easier than using a hand squeezer that's for sure (no smileys
either) and a pnuematic looks little overkill for the QB kit.
Any thoughts?
Frank
Lazyness is the Mother of all invention....:)
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: And another one |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
On 12/13 1:00, Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Thanks for the help on the TE rivetting.
>
> Another one is the AN470 rivets in the spars. Having squeezed a dozen
> rivets I could see this was going to be a painful experience. So on the
> VS spar I drilled the back plate to accept a cupped rivet set, got the
> back rivet set in the gun and started pounding away.
>
> I noticed however that the rivets have a tendancy to bend instead of
> driving straight. I'm thinking that if I support the spar better I might
> have better results with the HS spar because I can have two hands on the
> rivet gun to stop it wandering.
>
> I may have had the air pressure up a bit high too.
>
> Has anyone had good or bad results with this method?...Its certainly a
> whole lot easier than using a hand squeezer that's for sure (no smileys
> either) and a pnuematic looks little overkill for the QB kit.
>
> Any thoughts?
There are two gotta-haves in my book. (and I would never ever
consider building without #2)
1) items to be rivetted should be stabilized very well, even if
it means placing in a padded vise, especially when using a cupped set.
2) pneumatic squeezer. Perfect results every time, without question.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Bellwa77@aol.com
What type of epoxy would you use? There seems to be a whole bunch of
different types out there. Forgive me if this is a stupid question but what is
RTV? Is
that an Epoxy too?
Andy
In a message dated 12/13/2004 3:36:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Al.Herron@aerojet.com writes:
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Herron, Al" <Al.Herron@Aerojet.com>
Exactly the same way I did it, same result. I used the tank sealant, but I
think I'd use the epoxy if I had to do it again, less messy. Main thing is
to rivet a little at a time and check the TE often to make sure it's still
straight. I worried for two weeks ahead about this step, turned out to be
no big deal.
Al Herron
RV-7A QB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of George Neal E
Capt AU/PC
Subject: RE: RV7-List: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting
--> RV7-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC
<Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
Frank -
I believe the instructions recommend using a cupped set for AN470 rivets to
start the shop head, then switching to a flush set to finish.
If memory serves, I shimmed the rudder LE to get the TE to lay flat on my
back-riveting plate. Then used the back-rivet set to start the rivet, flush
set to finish. I started in the center, then did the ends, then moved to
the center between two of the just-set rivets, basically splitting a
progressively smaller gap. Mine came out dead straight. I used 30-min
epoxy on the AEX wedge.
I've heard that starting at one end or the middle and working straight out
will often result in a bowed TE.
Neal
RV-7 Wings
RV-8 Emp
Message 16
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dave Figgins" <2004nospam@earthlink.net>
I have to agree with Walter on the pneumatic squeezer, I have now measured
the number of turns of the adjustable set (from closed) for each rivet type
and size and get consistent results each time, best eBay purchase for me
Dave RV7 (waiting for wings)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Tondu
Subject: Re: RV7-List: And another one
--> RV7-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
On 12/13 1:00, Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com> > > Thanks for the help on the TE rivetting.
>
> Another one is the AN470 rivets in the spars. Having squeezed a dozen >
rivets I could see this was going to be a painful experience. So on the >
VS spar I drilled the back plate to accept a cupped rivet set, got the >
back rivet set in the gun and started pounding away.
>
> I noticed however that the rivets have a tendancy to bend instead of >
driving straight. I'm thinking that if I support the spar better I might >
have better results with the HS spar because I can have two hands on the >
rivet gun to stop it wandering.
>
> I may have had the air pressure up a bit high too.
>
> Has anyone had good or bad results with this method?...Its certainly a >
whole lot easier than using a hand squeezer that's for sure (no smileys >
either) and a pnuematic looks little overkill for the QB kit.
>
> Any thoughts?
There are two gotta-haves in my book. (and I would never ever consider
building without #2)
1) items to be rivetted should be stabilized very well, even if
it means placing in a padded vise, especially when using a cupped set.
2) pneumatic squeezer. Perfect results every time, without question.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Message 17
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| Subject: | RV7a Rudder edge rivetting |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
The plans say to use any kind of epoxy with a 30 minute working
time....my Supermend epoxy only claimed 15 mins so I went with the
building caulking instead.
RTV is not an epoxy its gasket sealant that is silicone based...Makes a
rubbery seal. Not what your looking for to glue the tail edges together.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Bellwa77@AOL.com
Subject: Re: RV7-List: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting
--> RV7-List message posted by: Bellwa77@aol.com
What type of epoxy would you use? There seems to be a whole bunch of
different types out there. Forgive me if this is a stupid question but
what is RTV? Is
that an Epoxy too?
Andy
In a message dated 12/13/2004 3:36:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Al.Herron@aerojet.com writes:
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Herron, Al" <Al.Herron@Aerojet.com>
Exactly the same way I did it, same result. I used the tank sealant,
but I think I'd use the epoxy if I had to do it again, less messy. Main
thing is to rivet a little at a time and check the TE often to make sure
it's still straight. I worried for two weeks ahead about this step,
turned out to be no big deal.
Al Herron
RV-7A QB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of George Neal E
Capt AU/PC
Subject: RE: RV7-List: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting
--> RV7-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC
<Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
Frank -
I believe the instructions recommend using a cupped set for AN470 rivets
to start the shop head, then switching to a flush set to finish.
If memory serves, I shimmed the rudder LE to get the TE to lay flat on
my back-riveting plate. Then used the back-rivet set to start the
rivet, flush set to finish. I started in the center, then did the ends,
then moved to the center between two of the just-set rivets, basically
splitting a progressively smaller gap. Mine came out dead straight. I
used 30-min epoxy on the AEX wedge.
I've heard that starting at one end or the middle and working straight
out will often result in a bowed TE.
Neal
RV-7 Wings
RV-8 Emp
Message 18
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| Subject: | RV7a Rudder edge rivetting |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Herron, Al" <Al.Herron@Aerojet.com>
There are no stupid questions.
I'll pass along another thing about RTV because it's a safety item. Do not
get the stuff anywhere near your fuel system. In contact with avgas it will
swell up by a factor of about 10. I had a (supposedly FAA certified) A&P use
to seal the fuel tank access panels on my 172. The panel screws pushed
little #8-size pellets of the stuff into my fuel tank, where they proceeded
to grow to the approximate size and consistency of a big garden slug. I was
lucky - another mechanic spotted the problem a couple of weeks later before
they clogged my fuel lines. I was only out $400 to get the tanks flushed
instead whatever an off-field landing might have cost me. Word to the wise.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Bellwa77@AOL.com
Subject: Re: RV7-List: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting
--> RV7-List message posted by: Bellwa77@aol.com
What type of epoxy would you use? There seems to be a whole bunch of
different types out there. Forgive me if this is a stupid question but what
is RTV? Is
that an Epoxy too?
Andy
In a message dated 12/13/2004 3:36:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Al.Herron@aerojet.com writes:
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Herron, Al" <Al.Herron@Aerojet.com>
Exactly the same way I did it, same result. I used the tank sealant, but I
think I'd use the epoxy if I had to do it again, less messy. Main thing is
to rivet a little at a time and check the TE often to make sure it's still
straight. I worried for two weeks ahead about this step, turned out to be
no big deal.
Al Herron
RV-7A QB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of George Neal E
Capt AU/PC
Subject: RE: RV7-List: RV7a Rudder edge rivetting
--> RV7-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC
<Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
Frank -
I believe the instructions recommend using a cupped set for AN470 rivets to
start the shop head, then switching to a flush set to finish.
If memory serves, I shimmed the rudder LE to get the TE to lay flat on my
back-riveting plate. Then used the back-rivet set to start the rivet, flush
set to finish. I started in the center, then did the ends, then moved to
the center between two of the just-set rivets, basically splitting a
progressively smaller gap. Mine came out dead straight. I used 30-min
epoxy on the AEX wedge.
I've heard that starting at one end or the middle and working straight out
will often result in a bowed TE.
Neal
RV-7 Wings
RV-8 Emp
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