Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:47 AM - Re: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs (Jamie Painter)
2. 06:11 AM - Re: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs (Bob Collins)
3. 08:40 AM - Re: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs (Gerry Filby)
4. 10:24 AM - Re: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs (bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net)
5. 10:55 AM - Re: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs (Gerry Filby)
6. 02:26 PM - Re: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs (Greg Blakey)
7. 04:07 PM - Re: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs (Jamie Painter)
8. 05:04 PM - Re: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs (Gerry Filby)
9. 09:12 PM - ready to order wing kit (Don Hall)
10. 09:56 PM - Re: ready to order wing kit (Scott Farner)
11. 10:11 PM - Re: ready to order wing kit (DonVS)
12. 10:33 PM - Re: ready to order wing kit (Dan Checkoway)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
> Scratchin' my head once again ...
>
> The plans seem to indicate that the edge of the F-623 baggage
> corner rib abuts the edge of the lower flange of the F-705A
> bulkhead channel ... then the F-623A attach strip overlaps and
> connects the two. But when I lay out the parts like this the
> apex of the rib's 'triangle' doesn't line up with the similar
> apex along the edge of the F-976 skin and the aft end of the
> rib protrudes beyond the line joining the ends of the adjascent
> ribs. It just doesn't look right. Furthermore the forward end
> of the rib outboard flange is factory shaped such that it might
> overlap on the inside of the flange of the F-705D bulkhead
> verticle channel - a single rivet passing through the skin, the
> bulkhead flange and then the rib flange. (Confused yet ? I am.)
>
> The only solution I can see is to trim away part of the forward
> web and inboard flange of the rib - but I don't see any note of
> this in the plans or instructions. Anyone got any insight into
> this ?
I just did this a few days ago. One thing I didn't see you mention was
whether or not you trimmed down the aft edge of the corner rib. It should get
cut down per DWG 22 (I believe that's the correct drawing...working from
memory here).
See here:
http://rv.jpainter.org/?view=entry&date=2005-05-30
do not archive
- Jamie
--
Jamie D. Painter
RV-7A fuselage N622JP (reserved)
http://rv.jpainter.org
Message 2
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| Subject: | F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
Gerry:
I just did the same part the other day and that joggle confused me because
it suggests the flange fits inside the bulkhead flange. But if you do that,
you can't get the edge of the corner rib to line up flush with the bottom
skin, although I have seen some Web sites that have suggested cutting aroudn
etc.
Don't bother.
Hack it off. The two flanges, the web,etc whee it meets the flange of the
side of the bulkhead and the top. Front and back (I left the back intact
until we mated the center and aft section on Thursday and then it was much
easier to see why you have to do the same to the rear section.
It takes awhile to see this on the plans. They really needed a zoomed-in
overhead shot here.
Disclaimer: I see you posted this to both the 9 and 7 groups. I'm building a
7. I have no idea if the situation is the same with the 9.
Bob
St. Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Filby
Subject: RV7-List: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs
--> RV7-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
Scratchin' my head once again ...
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
Thanks Jamie ... very useful pictures.
The think I'm concerned with is that if I don't trim away the
forward part of the flange and web of the rib it won't sit
flush against the bottom skin as it approaches the lower web of
the 705 bulkhead.
I'm probably "over engineering" this and should just go ahead
and make a decision ...
g
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
>
>
> > Scratchin' my head once again ...
> >
> > The plans seem to indicate that the edge of the F-623 baggage
> > corner rib abuts the edge of the lower flange of the F-705A
> > bulkhead channel ... then the F-623A attach strip overlaps and
> > connects the two. But when I lay out the parts like this the
> > apex of the rib's 'triangle' doesn't line up with the similar
> > apex along the edge of the F-976 skin and the aft end of the
> > rib protrudes beyond the line joining the ends of the adjascent
> > ribs. It just doesn't look right. Furthermore the forward end
> > of the rib outboard flange is factory shaped such that it might
> > overlap on the inside of the flange of the F-705D bulkhead
> > verticle channel - a single rivet passing through the skin, the
> > bulkhead flange and then the rib flange. (Confused yet ? I am.)
> >
> > The only solution I can see is to trim away part of the forward
> > web and inboard flange of the rib - but I don't see any note of
> > this in the plans or instructions. Anyone got any insight into
> > this ?
>
> I just did this a few days ago. One thing I didn't see you mention was
> whether or not you trimmed down the aft edge of the corner rib.
> It should get
> cut down per DWG 22 (I believe that's the correct drawing...working from
> memory here).
>
> See here:
> http://rv.jpainter.org/?view=entry&date=2005-05-30
>
> do not archive
>
> - Jamie
>
--
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs |
--> RV7-List message posted by: bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net
You're right, if you keep the joggle portion of the Web, it won't sit perfectly
flush at the forward portion of the skin. But it might be close enough. However,
I suspect that the fact it won't, is the reason Van's drawings show the entire
forward part getting hacked off.
The inclusion of the joggle, however, might lead one to conclude that they want
the flange mated with the bulkhead, but the plans themselves don't show that,
which is why I just hacked it off.
I doubt there's an ounce of difference structurally and I chose to cut it off --
aside from the fact that's what the plans said -- to get a perfectly flush fit.
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> RV7-List message posted by: Gerry Filby
>
>
> Thanks Jamie ... very useful pictures.
>
> The think I'm concerned with is that if I don't trim away the
> forward part of the flange and web of the rib it won't sit
> flush against the bottom skin as it approaches the lower web of
> the 705 bulkhead.
>
> I'm probably "over engineering" this and should just go ahead
> and make a decision ...
>
> g
>
You're right, if you keep the joggle portion of the Web, it won't sit perfectly
flush at the forward portion of the skin. But it might be close enough. However,
I suspect that the fact it won't, is the reason Van's drawings show the entire
forward part getting hacked off.
The inclusion of the joggle, however, might lead one to conclude that they want
the flange mated with the bulkhead, but the plans themselves don't show that,
which is why I just hacked it off.
I doubt there's an ounce of difference structurally and I chose to cut it off --
aside from the fact that's what the plans said -- to get a perfectly flush fit.
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV7-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <GERF@GERF.COM>
Thanks Jamie ... very useful pictures.
The think I'm concerned with is that if I don't trim away the
forward part of the flange and web of the rib it won't sit
flush against the bottom skin as it approaches the lower web of
the 705 bulkhead.
I'm probably "over engineering" this and should just go ahead
and make a decision ...
g
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
Interesting that one list member sent me a pic offline of this
area in his quick build fuse - appears that Van's doesn't trim
the front end off and just lets the web of the rib ride up over
the flange of the bulkhead. I guess they don't worry about the
rib not being flush with the skin. When I say Van's - I mean
whoever the contractor is that builds the quickbuilds for them
;-)
g
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net
>
> You're right, if you keep the joggle portion of the Web, it
> won't sit perfectly flush at the forward portion of the skin.
> But it might be close enough. However, I suspect that the fact
> it won't, is the reason Van's drawings show the entire forward
> part getting hacked off.
>
> The inclusion of the joggle, however, might lead one to
> conclude that they want the flange mated with the bulkhead, but
> the plans themselves don't show that, which is why I just
> hacked it off.
>
> I doubt there's an ounce of difference structurally and I chose
> to cut it off -- aside from the fact that's what the plans said
> -- to get a perfectly flush fit.
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> > --> RV7-List message posted by: Gerry Filby
> >
> >
> > Thanks Jamie ... very useful pictures.
> >
> > The think I'm concerned with is that if I don't trim away the
> > forward part of the flange and web of the rib it won't sit
> > flush against the bottom skin as it approaches the lower web of
> > the 705 bulkhead.
> >
> > I'm probably "over engineering" this and should just go ahead
> > and make a decision ...
> >
> > g
> >
>
> You're right, if you keep the joggle portion of the Web, it
> won't sit perfectly flush at the forward portion of the skin.
> But it might be close enough. However, I suspect that the fact
> it won't, is the reason Van's drawings show the entire forward
> part getting hacked off.
>
> The inclusion of the joggle, however, might lead one to
> conclude that they want the flange mated with the bulkhead, but
> the plans themselves don't show that, which is why I just
> hacked it off.
>
> I doubt there's an ounce of difference structurally and I chose
> to cut it off -- aside from the fact that's what the plans said
> -- to get a perfectly flush fit.
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> -- RV7-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <GERF@GERF.COM>
>
>
> Thanks Jamie ... very useful pictures.
>
> The think I'm concerned with is that if I don't trim away the
> forward part of the flange and web of the rib it won't sit
> flush against the bottom skin as it approaches the lower web of
> the 705 bulkhead.
>
> I'm probably "over engineering" this and should just go ahead
> and make a decision ...
>
> g
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Greg Blakey" <gblakey@vic.australis.com.au>
Gerry,
I spoke to Gus Furnell at Vans regading this issue when I was confronted
with it some months ago. Yes the joggle is confusing but the answer was to
trim it off as per the plans and make the small fillets to join the rib to
the bulkhead either end of the rib. Following the plans by trimming the
item makes more sense as you progress though is confusing at first.
Just trim it and trust it is the way to go.
Greg (Australia)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerry Filby" <gerf@gerf.com>
Subject: Re: RV7-List: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs
> --> RV7-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
>
>
> Thanks Jamie ... very useful pictures.
>
> The think I'm concerned with is that if I don't trim away the
> forward part of the flange and web of the rib it won't sit
> flush against the bottom skin as it approaches the lower web of
> the 705 bulkhead.
>
> I'm probably "over engineering" this and should just go ahead
> and make a decision ...
>
> g
>
> >
> > --> RV7-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
> >
> >
> > > Scratchin' my head once again ...
> > >
> > > The plans seem to indicate that the edge of the F-623 baggage
> > > corner rib abuts the edge of the lower flange of the F-705A
> > > bulkhead channel ... then the F-623A attach strip overlaps and
> > > connects the two. But when I lay out the parts like this the
> > > apex of the rib's 'triangle' doesn't line up with the similar
> > > apex along the edge of the F-976 skin and the aft end of the
> > > rib protrudes beyond the line joining the ends of the adjascent
> > > ribs. It just doesn't look right. Furthermore the forward end
> > > of the rib outboard flange is factory shaped such that it might
> > > overlap on the inside of the flange of the F-705D bulkhead
> > > verticle channel - a single rivet passing through the skin, the
> > > bulkhead flange and then the rib flange. (Confused yet ? I am.)
> > >
> > > The only solution I can see is to trim away part of the forward
> > > web and inboard flange of the rib - but I don't see any note of
> > > this in the plans or instructions. Anyone got any insight into
> > > this ?
> >
> > I just did this a few days ago. One thing I didn't see you mention was
> > whether or not you trimmed down the aft edge of the corner rib.
> > It should get
> > cut down per DWG 22 (I believe that's the correct drawing...working from
> > memory here).
> >
> > See here:
> > http://rv.jpainter.org/?view=entry&date=2005-05-30
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> > - Jamie
> >
>
> --
> __g__
>
> ==========================================================
> Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com
> Tel: 415 203 9177
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Jamie Painter <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
Hmm...after looking at other people's comments about this area I went
out and looked at the drawing again. It has an arrow pointing to the
aft end but it says to 'trim the rib ends'. I ignored the plurality of
the note. In retrospect...I remember thinking that the attach strip
made no sense if the rib was attaching to the flange...but now it makes
complete sense. I'm going to cut off the bottom at the joggle but
leave the side flange in place.
On Jun 3, 2005, at 7:41 AM, Jamie Painter wrote:
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter"
> <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
>
>
>> Scratchin' my head once again ...
>>
>> The plans seem to indicate that the edge of the F-623 baggage
>> corner rib abuts the edge of the lower flange of the F-705A
>> bulkhead channel ... then the F-623A attach strip overlaps and
>> connects the two. But when I lay out the parts like this the
>> apex of the rib's 'triangle' doesn't line up with the similar
>> apex along the edge of the F-976 skin and the aft end of the
>> rib protrudes beyond the line joining the ends of the adjascent
>> ribs. It just doesn't look right. Furthermore the forward end
>> of the rib outboard flange is factory shaped such that it might
>> overlap on the inside of the flange of the F-705D bulkhead
>> verticle channel - a single rivet passing through the skin, the
>> bulkhead flange and then the rib flange. (Confused yet ? I am.)
>>
>> The only solution I can see is to trim away part of the forward
>> web and inboard flange of the rib - but I don't see any note of
>> this in the plans or instructions. Anyone got any insight into
>> this ?
>
> I just did this a few days ago. One thing I didn't see you mention was
> whether or not you trimmed down the aft edge of the corner rib. It
> should get
> cut down per DWG 22 (I believe that's the correct drawing...working
> from
> memory here).
>
> See here:
> http://rv.jpainter.org/?view=entry&date=2005-05-30
>
> do not archive
>
> - Jamie
>
> --
> Jamie D. Painter
> RV-7A fuselage N622JP (reserved)
> http://rv.jpainter.org
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: F-623 Baggage Compt Corner Ribs |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Gerry Filby <gerf@gerf.com>
I think that's the path I'm going to take as well - that way
the rib is stabilized in 2 planes and still flush with the
bottom skin. Its interesting that there has been a range
solutions applied to this covering just about every possibility
- and Van's tech advise differs from the actual practice when
they build the quickbuild fuselage.
g
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: Jamie Painter <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
>
> Hmm...after looking at other people's comments about this area I went
> out and looked at the drawing again. It has an arrow pointing to the
> aft end but it says to 'trim the rib ends'. I ignored the plurality of
> the note. In retrospect...I remember thinking that the attach strip
> made no sense if the rib was attaching to the flange...but now it makes
> complete sense. I'm going to cut off the bottom at the joggle but
> leave the side flange in place.
>
> On Jun 3, 2005, at 7:41 AM, Jamie Painter wrote:
>
> > --> RV7-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter"
> > <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
> >
> >
> >> Scratchin' my head once again ...
> >>
> >> The plans seem to indicate that the edge of the F-623 baggage
> >> corner rib abuts the edge of the lower flange of the F-705A
> >> bulkhead channel ... then the F-623A attach strip overlaps and
> >> connects the two. But when I lay out the parts like this the
> >> apex of the rib's 'triangle' doesn't line up with the similar
> >> apex along the edge of the F-976 skin and the aft end of the
> >> rib protrudes beyond the line joining the ends of the adjascent
> >> ribs. It just doesn't look right. Furthermore the forward end
> >> of the rib outboard flange is factory shaped such that it might
> >> overlap on the inside of the flange of the F-705D bulkhead
> >> verticle channel - a single rivet passing through the skin, the
> >> bulkhead flange and then the rib flange. (Confused yet ? I am.)
> >>
> >> The only solution I can see is to trim away part of the forward
> >> web and inboard flange of the rib - but I don't see any note of
> >> this in the plans or instructions. Anyone got any insight into
> >> this ?
> >
> > I just did this a few days ago. One thing I didn't see you mention was
> > whether or not you trimmed down the aft edge of the corner rib. It
> > should get
> > cut down per DWG 22 (I believe that's the correct drawing...working
> > from
> > memory here).
> >
> > See here:
> > http://rv.jpainter.org/?view=entry&date=2005-05-30
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> > - Jamie
> >
> > --
> > Jamie D. Painter
> > RV-7A fuselage N622JP (reserved)
> > http://rv.jpainter.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
Message 9
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| Subject: | ready to order wing kit |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Don Hall" <dhall@donka.net>
Not done with the tail yet, but with a 12-week lead time...
So - the only choice from Van's when ordering a wing kit is the fuel sender.
I'm going with capactive.
What else should I be thinking about or buying along with the wing kit?
IOW, When should I worry about selecting lights, autopilot etc?
(It'd be great if I discover that the wing plans have giant red sticky notes
like "Whoa! go buy an auto-pilot servo right now before closing in this
part"?)
I want: strobes, ifr, autopilot, etc.
I think I might want: tip landing lights (attracted to simplicity), trutrak,
AOA indicator...
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: ready to order wing kit |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Scott Farner <sfarner@gmail.com>
Well if you are a big wuss like I am, the only other option you have
to think about is getting pre-built fuel tanks. I've seen autopilot
installations in the wing, but you can also mount it in the fuselage.
Any thing like lights, strobes and such that will be mounted on the
tip can wait until later (in fact the plans mention to put off wing
tip installation). The only thing to worry about during construction
is for these items is wiring runs. I can't remember if the plans
mention it, but it is best done before the ribs are riveted. If you go
for a heated pitot, installation will be near the end of wing
construction (depending on which wing you start with) before the
bottom skins are riveted.
--
Scott
www.scottfarner.com
RV-7A Waiting for Fuselage
On 6/3/05, Don Hall <dhall@donka.net> wrote:
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Don Hall" <dhall@donka.net>
>
> Not done with the tail yet, but with a 12-week lead time...
>
> So - the only choice from Van's when ordering a wing kit is the fuel sender.
> I'm going with capactive.
> What else should I be thinking about or buying along with the wing kit?
> IOW, When should I worry about selecting lights, autopilot etc?
>
> (It'd be great if I discover that the wing plans have giant red sticky notes
> like "Whoa! go buy an auto-pilot servo right now before closing in this
> part"?)
>
> I want: strobes, ifr, autopilot, etc.
> I think I might want: tip landing lights (attracted to simplicity), trutrak,
> AOA indicator...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | ready to order wing kit |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "DonVS" <dsvs@comcast.net>
I used Duckworks lights and an Aero instrument heated pitot. I also
installed the trutrack servo in the wing.I found it worthwhile to have these
tinmgs on hand before building the wing.
Don
RV7
Finish Kit
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Hall
Subject: RV7-List: ready to order wing kit
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Don Hall" <dhall@donka.net>
Not done with the tail yet, but with a 12-week lead time...
So - the only choice from Van's when ordering a wing kit is the fuel sender.
I'm going with capactive.
What else should I be thinking about or buying along with the wing kit?
IOW, When should I worry about selecting lights, autopilot etc?
(It'd be great if I discover that the wing plans have giant red sticky notes
like "Whoa! go buy an auto-pilot servo right now before closing in this
part"?)
I want: strobes, ifr, autopilot, etc.
I think I might want: tip landing lights (attracted to simplicity), trutrak,
AOA indicator...
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: ready to order wing kit |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Some autopilot manufacturers, such as TruTrak, will sell or give you the
servo brackets without having to buy a system -- they figure you're gonna be
a customer if they give you the brackets. Good marketing, and good sense.
If you have a choice, install the TruTrak aileron servo bracket when you
build the wing spar. It's no big thing to install it later, but you'd save
time by doing it up front.
While you're planning, consider the THREE wiring runs which don't really go
in the normal root-to-tip conduit...
1) Autopilot servo
2) Pitot heat
3) OAT sensor
As tempting as it is to put the OAT sensor in the NACA vent like so many RVs
out there have done, don't do it if you have the choice. The reading will
not be perfectly accurate there...hot air escapes the sides of the cowling
right in front of it. An OAT sensor belongs out on the bottom of the wing.
If it's not going to be accurate, why bother?!
Anyway, for these three wiring runs, just consider installing additional
snap bushings or grommets. Everything else (antennas, strobes, position
lights, landing lights, cameras) can be wired through the conduit. Yes,
strobe wires & antenna wires can be run together.
I don't recommend running the wires now, just start thinking about where
they will run.
Hope this helps,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Hall" <dhall@donka.net>
Subject: RV7-List: ready to order wing kit
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Don Hall" <dhall@donka.net>
>
> Not done with the tail yet, but with a 12-week lead time...
>
> So - the only choice from Van's when ordering a wing kit is the fuel
sender.
> I'm going with capactive.
> What else should I be thinking about or buying along with the wing kit?
> IOW, When should I worry about selecting lights, autopilot etc?
>
> (It'd be great if I discover that the wing plans have giant red sticky
notes
> like "Whoa! go buy an auto-pilot servo right now before closing in this
> part"?)
>
> I want: strobes, ifr, autopilot, etc.
> I think I might want: tip landing lights (attracted to simplicity),
trutrak,
> AOA indicator...
>
>
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