Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:09 AM - 5 point harness (Cliff Lotter)
2. 08:45 AM - Re: 5 point harness (Brian Meyette)
3. 09:11 AM - Re: 5 point harness (Walter Tondu)
4. 09:25 AM - Re: 5 point harness (Dan Checkoway)
5. 09:41 AM - Re: 5 point harness (Konrad L. Werner)
6. 10:22 AM - Re: 5 point harness (GMC)
7. 10:28 AM - Re: 5 point harness (Walter Tondu)
8. 10:49 AM - Re: 5 point harness (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
9. 10:52 AM - Re: 5 point harness (Dan Checkoway)
10. 11:04 AM - Re: 5 point harness (Dwight Frye)
11. 11:04 AM - Re: 5 point harness (Stein Bruch)
12. 11:27 AM - Re: 5 point harness (Walter Tondu)
13. 11:30 AM - Re: 5 point harness (Norman Younie)
14. 11:33 AM - Re: 5 point harness (DuWaine Emmons)
15. 11:37 AM - Re: 5 point harness (Walter Tondu)
16. 12:04 PM - Re: 5 point harness (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
17. 12:43 PM - Re: Re: 5 point harness ()
18. 12:47 PM - Re: 5 point harness (Norman Younie)
Message 1
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus@gds.co.za>
Hi all
How do I fit the crotch strap for a 5 point harness to the RV7? There are pre cut
holes in the correct position but no indication of how to fit, in fact the
pre-cup holes are not even indicated in the plans.
Regards
Cliff lotter
do not archive
Message 2
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clamav-milter version 0.80j
on cassiopeia
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic@starband.net>
I believe the crotch strap kit comes with a drawing. Try looking here & see
if any of it helps:
http://brian76.mystarband.net/FuselageAug03.htm#aug24
You might also check Dan Checkoway's site and Walter Tondu's
http://www.rv7-a.com/
http://www.rvproject.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cliff Lotter
Subject: RV7-List: 5 point harness
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus@gds.co.za>
Hi all
How do I fit the crotch strap for a 5 point harness to the RV7? There are
pre cut holes in the correct position but no indication of how to fit, in
fact the pre-cup holes are not even indicated in the plans.
Regards
Cliff lotter
do not archive
--
--
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 5 point harness |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
On 06/10 4:08, Cliff Lotter wrote:
> How do I fit the crotch strap for a 5 point harness to the RV7? There are pre
cut holes in the correct position but no indication of how to fit, in fact the
pre-cup holes are not even indicated in the plans.
Order Vans 5pt harness installation kit. It's a seperate order.
Comes with instructions and plans. Just be aware the vans
crotch strap thickness at the mounting point is different
from other seat belt manufacturers like team rocket. And
the bolt size is also different.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 5 point harness |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
I don't have a 5-point system (I have Van's simple cheap lightweight
4-point). The 5-point is an uncomfortable waste of weight & cost (imho).
Not worth it unless you have inverted OIL *and* FUEL *and* you do lots of
sustained inverted. Otherwise why bother?
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic@starband.net>
Subject: RE: RV7-List: 5 point harness
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic@starband.net>
>
> I believe the crotch strap kit comes with a drawing. Try looking here &
see
> if any of it helps:
>
> http://brian76.mystarband.net/FuselageAug03.htm#aug24
>
> You might also check Dan Checkoway's site and Walter Tondu's
>
> http://www.rv7-a.com/
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cliff Lotter
> To: rv7-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV7-List: 5 point harness
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus@gds.co.za>
>
> Hi all
> How do I fit the crotch strap for a 5 point harness to the RV7? There are
> pre cut holes in the correct position but no indication of how to fit, in
> fact the pre-cup holes are not even indicated in the plans.
> Regards
> Cliff lotter
> do not archive
>
>
> --
>
> --
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 5 point harness |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
Re: Otherwise why bother?
Perhaps to prevent submarining in the 4-point harness in a forward impact scenario.
Just a thought in case of a possible unplanned flight event.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Checkoway
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: 5 point harness
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
I don't have a 5-point system (I have Van's simple cheap lightweight
4-point). The 5-point is an uncomfortable waste of weight & cost (imho).
Not worth it unless you have inverted OIL *and* FUEL *and* you do lots of
sustained inverted. Otherwise why bother?
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic@starband.net>
To: <rv7-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RE: RV7-List: 5 point harness
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic@starband.net>
>
> I believe the crotch strap kit comes with a drawing. Try looking here &
see
> if any of it helps:
>
> http://brian76.mystarband.net/FuselageAug03.htm#aug24
>
> You might also check Dan Checkoway's site and Walter Tondu's
>
> http://www.rv7-a.com/
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cliff Lotter
> To: rv7-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV7-List: 5 point harness
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus@gds.co.za>
>
> Hi all
> How do I fit the crotch strap for a 5 point harness to the RV7? There are
> pre cut holes in the correct position but no indication of how to fit, in
> fact the pre-cup holes are not even indicated in the plans.
> Regards
> Cliff lotter
> do not archive
>
>
> --
>
> --
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 5 point harness |
--> RV7-List message posted by: GMC <gmcnutt@shaw.ca>
Cliff Lotter wrote:
>--> RV7-List message posted by: "Cliff Lotter" <exodus@gds.co.za>
>
>Hi all
>How do I fit the crotch strap for a 5 point harness to the RV7? There are pre
cut holes in the correct position but no indication of how to fit, in fact the
pre-cup holes are not even indicated in the plans.
>Regards
>Cliff lotter
>do not archive
>
>
>Hi Cliff
>
>
Vans sells an attachment kit, I believe it is about $27. After looking
at the kit I decided to do it myself as I had done previously on my 6A.
Check around the RV Internet sites, there are several ways of making
this attachment.
If I remember correctly I calculated that the maximum pull on the crotch
belt would be about 400 lbs in a 20 G stop so I fabricated some
brackets, pop riveted them to seat ribs and used angle bar between
brackets to attach crotch belt.
George in Langley BC
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 5 point harness |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
On 06/10 9:25, Dan Checkoway wrote:
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> I don't have a 5-point system (I have Van's simple cheap lightweight
> 4-point). The 5-point is an uncomfortable waste of weight & cost (imho).
> Not worth it unless you have inverted OIL *and* FUEL *and* you do lots of
> sustained inverted. Otherwise why bother?
Safety. If it will hold you better in the seat inverted it's
certainly going to keep you in the seat better if you have to
land *unexpectedly*.
And the el-cheapo vans belts don't look near as cool either.
This is obviously the main factor why I didn't chose them. :)
You don't *have* to use it if it's uncomfortable.
So what if it weights a pound more. You aren't going
to notice the net speed loss, even if you could measure it.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Message 8
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
"Its only a pound"...But I agree coolness wins over any other
consideration...:)
Do not archive
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Tondu
Subject: Re: RV7-List: 5 point harness
--> RV7-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
On 06/10 9:25, Dan Checkoway wrote:
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> > I don't have a 5-point system (I have Van's simple cheap
lightweight > 4-point). The 5-point is an uncomfortable waste of
weight & cost (imho).
> Not worth it unless you have inverted OIL *and* FUEL *and* you do
lots of > sustained inverted. Otherwise why bother?
Safety. If it will hold you better in the seat inverted it's certainly
going to keep you in the seat better if you have to land *unexpectedly*.
And the el-cheapo vans belts don't look near as cool either.
This is obviously the main factor why I didn't chose them. :)
You don't *have* to use it if it's uncomfortable.
So what if it weights a pound more. You aren't going to notice the net
speed loss, even if you could measure it.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 5 point harness |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Understood about safety.
> You don't *have* to use it if it's uncomfortable.
How quickly can you remove it? Surely you don't want it just lying there
where it can interfere with the stick.
do not archive
)_( Dan
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 5 point harness |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
On Fri Jun 10 13:28:23 2005, Walter Tondu wrote :
>Safety. If it will hold you better in the seat inverted it's
>certainly going to keep you in the seat better if you have to
>land *unexpectedly*.
>
>And the el-cheapo vans belts don't look near as cool either.
>This is obviously the main factor why I didn't chose them. :)
>
>You don't *have* to use it if it's uncomfortable.
>
>So what if it weights a pound more. You aren't going
>to notice the net speed loss, even if you could measure it.
So I want to clarify something ... does Van's crotch strap kit
hardware work for the Hooker or other (non-Van's) 5-point belts?
Or do I need to get "belt system specific" hardware if I want
to go with other than the Van's belts in my -7?
-- Dwight
do not archive
Message 11
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
As typical, I'll play both sides of the fence here.
Dan definately makes a true statement. I have 5 point hookers in my -6 with
both inverted oil & fuel. That being said, even WITH the 5 point harnesses,
the side by side RV's don't lend themselves well to sustained inverted
flight. The airplane will do it just fine, but the seat belt geometry in
the side/side just doesn't work well. The seat belts bascially pull nearly
straight back, not much down. Same with the shoulder harnesses. Even if
you suck the crotch strap down as tight as you can, make the lap belts so
tight you can barely breath, you'll still slide down the back of the seat a
little bit when flying sustained inverted.
That being said, Konrad makes a point about the "submarining" of people
during an incident.
Cost of the hookers isn't that much higher than Van's (only about $50-$60
total above their 5 point set). Weight has been hashed over on these belts
and they surprisingly aren't that much different. The archives are stuffed
full of info on them. Typcially the hookers weight about 2-3 lbs (total for
both sets) more than the Van's 4 pt., and about 1-1.5 lbs more than the
Van's 5 pt. So, it really comes down to what you like. I like the Hookers
due to large palette of color choices, and the color trimmed padding on the
lap belts and shoulder harnesses are nice.
Cheers,
Stein.
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
Subject: Re: RV7-List: 5 point harness
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
I don't have a 5-point system (I have Van's simple cheap lightweight
4-point). The 5-point is an uncomfortable waste of weight & cost (imho).
Not worth it unless you have inverted OIL *and* FUEL *and* you do lots of
sustained inverted. Otherwise why bother?
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 5 point harness |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
On 06/10 10:51, Dan Checkoway wrote:
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> Understood about safety.
>
> > You don't *have* to use it if it's uncomfortable.
>
> How quickly can you remove it? Surely you don't want it just lying there
> where it can interfere with the stick.
Shove it back into the slot in the seat cushion.
It's out of the way at that point.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 5 point harness |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Norman Younie <rv6capt@pacificcoast.net>
I agree with Dan.
Why add the weight to the plane. Every pound counts. A pound here and a
pound there and the next thing an other gizzmo or two and you'll find
the climb performance decreasing and the fuel burn going up.I have a few
hours in these things and have never found a five point necessary unless
you are staying inverted. The F1 is a different story, it has inverted
oil, fuel and a smoke system you need it then.
Norman
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
>Understood about safety.
>
>
>
>>You don't *have* to use it if it's uncomfortable.
>>
>>
>
>How quickly can you remove it? Surely you don't want it just lying there
>where it can interfere with the stick.
>
>do not archive
>)_( Dan
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "DuWaine Emmons" <k-d-emmons@msn.com>
As an owner of a Citabria and T-182, my partners and I placed Hooker 5pt
harnesses in both planes. One reason, safety. If you fly over mountains or
backcountry, you may not be able to choose how you land.
DuWaine
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
Subject: Re: RV7-List: 5 point harness
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Understood about safety.
> You don't *have* to use it if it's uncomfortable.
How quickly can you remove it? Surely you don't want it just lying there
where it can interfere with the stick.
do not archive
)_( Dan
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 5 point harness |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
On 06/10 2:10, Dwight Frye wrote:
> --> RV7-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
>
> On Fri Jun 10 13:28:23 2005, Walter Tondu wrote :
> >Safety. If it will hold you better in the seat inverted it's
> >certainly going to keep you in the seat better if you have to
> >land *unexpectedly*.
> >
> >And the el-cheapo vans belts don't look near as cool either.
> >This is obviously the main factor why I didn't chose them. :)
> >
> >You don't *have* to use it if it's uncomfortable.
> >
> >So what if it weights a pound more. You aren't going
> >to notice the net speed loss, even if you could measure it.
>
> So I want to clarify something ... does Van's crotch strap kit
> hardware work for the Hooker or other (non-Van's) 5-point belts?
Yes.
> Or do I need to get "belt system specific" hardware if I want
> to go with other than the Van's belts in my -7?
>
> -- Dwight
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Message 16
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
So is the consensus that a side by side RV with inverted fuel and oil
really needs 5 point harnesses?
Don't think I'm going to like the answer to this.....
Frank
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: 5 point harness |
--> RV7-List message posted by: <richardglick@charter.net>
Both sides have +'s and -'s and now it's up to you. Make the desision and then
go for it and don't look back. I went forward with the 5 Point Hooker in my RV7A
and I certantly wont second guess what I did.
Richard Glick
RV7A, Wisconsin
>
> From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> Date: 2005/06/10 Fri PM 03:02:58 EDT
> To: <rv7-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: RV7-List: 5 point harness
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> So is the consensus that a side by side RV with inverted fuel and oil
> really needs 5 point harnesses?
>
> Don't think I'm going to like the answer to this.....
>
> Frank
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 5 point harness |
--> RV7-List message posted by: Norman Younie <rv6capt@pacificcoast.net>
yes
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>--> RV7-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>So is the consensus that a side by side RV with inverted fuel and oil
>really needs 5 point harnesses?
>
>Don't think I'm going to like the answer to this.....
>
>Frank
>
>
>
>
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