Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:54 AM - Re: to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates (LarryRobertHelming)
2. 08:27 AM - Re: compressors (al.herron@Aerojet.com (Herron, Al))
3. 08:53 AM - Re: to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates (owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com)
4. 09:29 AM - Re: compressors (Bradley Oliver)
5. 02:07 PM - Re: to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates (Don Hall)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Michele Delsol: The predrilled holes for the NUTPLATES (not platenuts) in
the main spars are precisely drilled and located. We should prepare and use
a pilot piece behind the spar with precisely located holes that aligns and
holds our countersinking tool bit so it stays exactly located and does not
tend to wander around which could let it get out of place and cause the
problem you described. We should not be considering using JB Weld on the
main spar. I suggest you contact Vans about this problem before you close
up your wing. You are right that this would require close monitoring and
inspections.
I too experienced what you describe on nutplate drilling where the holes are
not predrilled (which is not the case in the main spar that we get from
Vans). But not any more. To position and drill correctly you first drill
the hole where you want it for the screw that goes into the nutplate and use
the proper size drill so the screw just perfectly fits in the hole. Then
screw on a nutplate through your drilled hole. Hold the nutplate in place
closely and drill one of the rivet holes and cleco it. Then drill the
other rivet hole. Remove the nutplate, expand the screw hole to proper size
and debur. Now do your countersinking/dimpling for the rivets and rivet on
the nutplate. Then if you need to countersink the screw hole do so now --
The nutplate already riveted on will hold your countersink tool so it stays
in the exact correct location. No more alignment problems or removing more
material than necessary. Good luck.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up Flying 60 Hours
----- Original Message -----
From: <owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com>
Subject: RV7-List: to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates
> --> RV7-List message posted by:
>
> Don,
>
> I see from your photos that you countersunk the screw holes before
> installing the nutplates. This could be a mistake (I've been there),
> depends
> on how well Vans centered the holes relative to the respective nutplate
> rivet holes. In my case a few screw holes were off center by as much as
> 1/16" which of course would make putting the screw in quite difficult. I
> consequently had to rework the screw holes. To do this, I put a JB Weld
> equivalent in the bad screw holes and countersunk the screw holes a second
> time using the nutplate as a pilot guide. This should be OK as the JB Weld
> is sandwiched in between the spar and the wing tank skin. How well the JB
> Weld is holding up should be examined during long inspections, once every
> two years or every 200 hours.
>
> That's my $0.02.
>
> Michele Delsol
> RV8 Fuselage
> By the way - should it be nutplate or platenut?
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-
>> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Hall
>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 5:48 AM
>> To: rv7-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV7-List: wing wiring conduit
>>
>> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Don Hall" <dhall@donka.net>
>>
>> OK team,
>>
>> I'm looking for a thumbs up/down on my wiring conduit decision.
>>
>> Here's a picture of the spot I thought would be safe for wiring. This
>> link
>> takes you straight to the first photo in the gallery. There's another
>> photo
>> after this one slightly closer up.
>> http://donka.net/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=spars&id=DSC04746
>>
>> I plan to use thin-walled 3/4" PVC. The outside diameter is 1-1/16". I
>> didn't have a unibit exactly that size, so I used a 1" hole drilling bit.
>> It
>> tends to drill holes just slightly larger than 1", which worked out for
>> me.
>> The hole ended up fitting extremely snug so that you have to work the pvc
>> in.
>>
>> Is hole location OK?
>> I was recommended pvc over the ribbed conduit vans sells. Is thin 3/4"
>> pvc
>> adequate to task?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> ******************************************
>> Don Hall
>> N517DG (registered)
>> rv7 wings
>> http:\\donka.net\rv7project.html
>> ******************************************
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 2
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--> RV7-List message posted by: al.herron@Aerojet.com (Herron, Al)
You can get by with the 3-hp model, but I think you'd be happier with on
of the big uprights (unless you need to move it a lot). The 5- to 10-hp
models with a tank in the 60-gallon range will save you a bunch of time
waiting for the tank to recharge (although a die grinder can even
deplete one of these in a hurry). I purchased a 7-hp (or maybe it's
5-hp, not sure), 60-gallon upright from the local orange big-box
hardware store for about $400, was well worth the money. It's been very
dependable so far (2 years) and much quieter than my old oil-less
compressor, not only less noisy when it runs but it doesn't run nearly
as much trying to keep up.
Al Herron
RV-7A
fussing with the panel
Message 3
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| Subject: | to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates |
--> RV7-List message posted by:
Larry,
The pre drilled holes for the nutplate screws before I touched them were pre
drilled by Vans off center on some of them, not all. To correct for this,
Vans' instructions, which I did not follow, clearly say to install the
nutplates first and to then countersink so that the nutplate should guide
the pilot as the countersink digs deeper into the spar's flange.
It might be that Vans has now corrected the problem.
Michle
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryRobertHelming
> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:54 PM
> To: rv7-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV7-List: to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
> <lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
> Michele Delsol: The predrilled holes for the NUTPLATES (not platenuts) in
> the main spars are precisely drilled and located. We should prepare and
> use
> a pilot piece behind the spar with precisely located holes that aligns and
> holds our countersinking tool bit so it stays exactly located and does not
> tend to wander around which could let it get out of place and cause the
> problem you described. We should not be considering using JB Weld on the
> main spar. I suggest you contact Vans about this problem before you close
> up your wing. You are right that this would require close monitoring and
> inspections.
>
> I too experienced what you describe on nutplate drilling where the holes
> are
> not predrilled (which is not the case in the main spar that we get from
> Vans). But not any more. To position and drill correctly you first drill
> the hole where you want it for the screw that goes into the nutplate and
> use
> the proper size drill so the screw just perfectly fits in the hole. Then
> screw on a nutplate through your drilled hole. Hold the nutplate in place
> closely and drill one of the rivet holes and cleco it. Then drill the
> other rivet hole. Remove the nutplate, expand the screw hole to proper
> size
> and debur. Now do your countersinking/dimpling for the rivets and rivet
> on
> the nutplate. Then if you need to countersink the screw hole do so now --
> The nutplate already riveted on will hold your countersink tool so it
> stays
> in the exact correct location. No more alignment problems or removing
> more
> material than necessary. Good luck.
>
> Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up Flying 60 Hours
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com>
> To: <rv7-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV7-List: to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates
>
>
> > --> RV7-List message posted by:
> >
> > Don,
> >
> > I see from your photos that you countersunk the screw holes before
> > installing the nutplates. This could be a mistake (I've been there),
> > depends
> > on how well Vans centered the holes relative to the respective nutplate
> > rivet holes. In my case a few screw holes were off center by as much as
> > 1/16" which of course would make putting the screw in quite difficult. I
> > consequently had to rework the screw holes. To do this, I put a JB Weld
> > equivalent in the bad screw holes and countersunk the screw holes a
> second
> > time using the nutplate as a pilot guide. This should be OK as the JB
> Weld
> > is sandwiched in between the spar and the wing tank skin. How well the
> JB
> > Weld is holding up should be examined during long inspections, once
> every
> > two years or every 200 hours.
> >
> > That's my $0.02.
> >
> > Michele Delsol
> > RV8 Fuselage
> > By the way - should it be nutplate or platenut?
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-
> >> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Hall
> >> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 5:48 AM
> >> To: rv7-list@matronics.com
> >> Subject: RV7-List: wing wiring conduit
> >>
> >> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Don Hall" <dhall@donka.net>
> >>
> >> OK team,
> >>
> >> I'm looking for a thumbs up/down on my wiring conduit decision.
> >>
> >> Here's a picture of the spot I thought would be safe for wiring. This
> >> link
> >> takes you straight to the first photo in the gallery. There's another
> >> photo
> >> after this one slightly closer up.
> >> http://donka.net/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=spars&id=DSC04746
> >>
> >> I plan to use thin-walled 3/4" PVC. The outside diameter is 1-1/16". I
> >> didn't have a unibit exactly that size, so I used a 1" hole drilling
> bit.
> >> It
> >> tends to drill holes just slightly larger than 1", which worked out for
> >> me.
> >> The hole ended up fitting extremely snug so that you have to work the
> pvc
> >> in.
> >>
> >> Is hole location OK?
> >> I was recommended pvc over the ribbed conduit vans sells. Is thin 3/4"
> >> pvc
> >> adequate to task?
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance,
> >>
> >> ******************************************
> >> Don Hall
> >> N517DG (registered)
> >> rv7 wings
> >> http:\\donka.net\rv7project.html
> >> ******************************************
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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--> RV7-List message posted by: "Bradley Oliver" <brad@rv7factory.com>
While I certainly agree with the bigger is better approach, one thing to
consider is power requirements. Some of the larger compressors require
220V, which may not be a problem when building in the garage at home, but
220V may not be available to you when you move to a hangar. At the city
owned hangars here, 220V is not an option, so I was careful not to paint
myself into a corner or I would have been buying a second compressor for the
airport.
-Brad
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herron, Al
Subject: Re: RV7-List: compressors
--> RV7-List message posted by: al.herron@Aerojet.com (Herron, Al)
You can get by with the 3-hp model, but I think you'd be happier with on
of the big uprights (unless you need to move it a lot). The 5- to 10-hp
models with a tank in the 60-gallon range will save you a bunch of time
waiting for the tank to recharge (although a die grinder can even
deplete one of these in a hurry). I purchased a 7-hp (or maybe it's
5-hp, not sure), 60-gallon upright from the local orange big-box
hardware store for about $400, was well worth the money. It's been very
dependable so far (2 years) and much quieter than my old oil-less
compressor, not only less noisy when it runs but it doesn't run nearly
as much trying to keep up.
Al Herron
RV-7A
fussing with the panel
Message 5
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|
| Subject: | to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates |
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Don Hall" <dhall@donka.net>
Here's the method I used (ref Checkoway):
I created a nutplate "template" using scrap aluminum. For each countersink,
I cleco'd this in place under the flange and used the template as a guide
for drilling. So even if the hole from Van's is slightly off, the lead on
the countersink is follwing the template. I didn't check every hole, but
the ones I did check fit nicely. I'll check with a few screws more tonight.
Doing the c'sinking without the template resulted in a choppy c'sink because
the hole is too large to keep the countersink perfectly on center. One
thing I found necessary to amend from the Checkoway directions was that I
had to double up some of the thicker scrap aluminum because the countersink
can take just enough metal off your template to render it ineffective.
Using my doubled nutplate template resulted in shiny nice looking c'sinks.
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 empennage
http:\\donka.net\rv7project.html
******************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com]
Subject: RE: RV7-List: to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates
--> RV7-List message posted by:
Larry,
The pre drilled holes for the nutplate screws before I touched them were pre
drilled by Vans off center on some of them, not all. To correct for this,
Vans' instructions, which I did not follow, clearly say to install the
nutplates first and to then countersink so that the nutplate should guide
the pilot as the countersink digs deeper into the spar's flange.
It might be that Vans has now corrected the problem.
Michle
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryRobertHelming
> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:54 PM
> To: rv7-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV7-List: to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates
>
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
> <lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
> Michele Delsol: The predrilled holes for the NUTPLATES (not
> platenuts) in the main spars are precisely drilled and located. We
> should prepare and use a pilot piece behind the spar with precisely
> located holes that aligns and holds our countersinking tool bit so it
> stays exactly located and does not tend to wander around which could
> let it get out of place and cause the problem you described. We
> should not be considering using JB Weld on the main spar. I suggest
> you contact Vans about this problem before you close up your wing.
> You are right that this would require close monitoring and
> inspections.
>
> I too experienced what you describe on nutplate drilling where the
> holes are not predrilled (which is not the case in the main spar that
> we get from Vans). But not any more. To position and drill correctly
> you first drill the hole where you want it for the screw that goes
> into the nutplate and use the proper size drill so the screw just
> perfectly fits in the hole. Then screw on a nutplate through your
> drilled hole. Hold the nutplate in place
> closely and drill one of the rivet holes and cleco it. Then drill the
> other rivet hole. Remove the nutplate, expand the screw hole to
> proper size and debur. Now do your countersinking/dimpling for the
> rivets and rivet on the nutplate. Then if you need to countersink the
> screw hole do so now -- The nutplate already riveted on will hold your
> countersink tool so it stays in the exact correct location. No more
> alignment problems or removing more material than necessary. Good
> luck.
>
> Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip Up Flying 60 Hours
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com>
> To: <rv7-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV7-List: to Don Hall - wing tank nutplates
>
>
> > --> RV7-List message posted by:
> >
> > Don,
> >
> > I see from your photos that you countersunk the screw holes before
> > installing the nutplates. This could be a mistake (I've been there),
> > depends on how well Vans centered the holes relative to the
> > respective nutplate rivet holes. In my case a few screw holes were
> > off center by as much as 1/16" which of course would make putting
> > the screw in quite difficult. I consequently had to rework the screw
> > holes. To do this, I put a JB Weld equivalent in the bad screw holes
> > and countersunk the screw holes a
> second
> > time using the nutplate as a pilot guide. This should be OK as the
> > JB
> Weld
> > is sandwiched in between the spar and the wing tank skin. How well
> > the
> JB
> > Weld is holding up should be examined during long inspections, once
> every
> > two years or every 200 hours.
> >
> > That's my $0.02.
> >
> > Michele Delsol
> > RV8 Fuselage
> > By the way - should it be nutplate or platenut?
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-
> >> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Hall
> >> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 5:48 AM
> >> To: rv7-list@matronics.com
> >> Subject: RV7-List: wing wiring conduit
> >>
> >> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Don Hall" <dhall@donka.net>
> >>
> >> OK team,
> >>
> >> I'm looking for a thumbs up/down on my wiring conduit decision.
> >>
> >> Here's a picture of the spot I thought would be safe for wiring.
> >> This link takes you straight to the first photo in the gallery.
> >> There's another photo after this one slightly closer up.
> >> http://donka.net/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=spars&id=DSC0
> >> 4746
> >>
> >> I plan to use thin-walled 3/4" PVC. The outside diameter is
> >> 1-1/16". I didn't have a unibit exactly that size, so I used a 1"
> >> hole drilling
> bit.
> >> It
> >> tends to drill holes just slightly larger than 1", which worked out
> >> for me.
> >> The hole ended up fitting extremely snug so that you have to work
> >> the
> pvc
> >> in.
> >>
> >> Is hole location OK?
> >> I was recommended pvc over the ribbed conduit vans sells. Is thin 3/4"
> >> pvc
> >> adequate to task?
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance,
> >>
> >> ******************************************
> >> Don Hall
> >> N517DG (registered)
> >> rv7 wings
> >> http:\\donka.net\rv7project.html
> >> ******************************************
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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