Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:25 AM - Re: Re: Right Elevator (Paul Walter)
2. 04:01 AM - Re: Re: Right Elevator (Gary Dwinal)
3. 07:09 AM - Re: exp2v bus dc load ()
4. 01:56 PM - Re: exp2v bus dc load ()
5. 11:03 PM - Re: Re: Right Elevator (Jon Elford)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Right Elevator |
Thanks Jon,
Also, when taping the broom handle the skin to roll trailing edge. How far back
from edge to the centre of circumference point. Does it require a small, maybe
1/2 inch of flat surface for the rivet join ?. The plan does not show in great
detail.
Thank you - Paul Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Elford
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Re: Right Elevator
Paul,
Yes, the counterbalance skin is dimpled for flush head rivets as well as dimpled
for the bolts that hold the counterweight in place. The counterweight is
countersunk to accomodate the large dimples for the bolts. You're doing fine...
Jon Elford
RV-7 N294CD Reserved
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Walter
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 1:25 AM
Subject: RV7-List: Re: Right Elevator
Hi Dan,
When preparing the right elevator I have dimpled skin. I then intern dimpled
all holes in E-703 end rib and E - 704 counter balance rib. How ever as the
E - 713 counter balance skin fits over these holding the counterweight, I am not
sure if this was the correct construction method.
Do I intern dimple the counter balance skin and use flush head rivets ?.
I'm having some grief with this and I have to tackle the left elevator complete
with trim tab next !!.
thanks Dan
Paul Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Checkoway
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
My 200hp angle valve injected engine is easy to hot start. No, it's not
as easy as a carb'd engine, that's for sure. It definitely takes more blades
to kick. But it's no problem, assuming you know the technique.
I use the Airflow Performance purge valve. I also have a single Lightspeed
Plasma II electronic ignition. These things can't hurt.
A 200hp injected engine versus a 180hp injected engine...they should behave
identically with respect to hot start traits.
Did you have balanced injectors on your Cardinal when you ran LOP? Were
they balanced so that EGTs peaked on all 4 cylinders within about 0.1gph of each
other? Was the prop dynamically balanced? Seems like you're confident that
LOP operation was the cause of the crank case fracture...curious about that.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: TylerB
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
I don't intend to run mogas in my engine. And the 180 will be a std. compression
which will keep the CHT more in line. Also probably will not run lean
of peak either. Did that on a Cardinal with the 200 angle valve and it did not
last to 2000TBO. Fractured at 1250 hrs at the same spot the crank case did
before.
When I said tuned for best performance I meant flow matched , Horizontal
cold air, dual electronic ignitions, injectors done by AirFlow.
Dan, do you have to say a little prayer and do a little rain dance before
cranking hot on your 200. I sure had to on the Cardinal
Tyler N537TM
Dan Checkoway wrote:
Rocket...240 knots? Not. The HR-II drivers I know get around 180 KTAS
burning 11-12gph.
I get 180 KTAS on ~10gph.
But I agree with the rest of your points. The angle valve engine is
more efficient at every turn. Worth the extra bucks? To me, absolutely. But
obviously not to most people, who are content running a less efficient powerplant
which has less cooling fin area. Which one is gonna make it to TBO and beyond...the
hopped-up 180hp parallel valve running around 400F on CHT for its
life, or the kicked-back 8.7:1 angle valve running at or below 300F on the CHTs?
Savings, schmavings.
What compression ratio are you gonna run on your IO-360 with auto fuel?
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 7:14 AM
Subject: RE: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
I think the idea that the bigger engines burn more fuel is not quite
right. Essentially an engine in say 120HP cruise will burn the same amount of
fuel set up at the same mixture point. You have to look at the BFSC numbers
which tell you how much fuel is burned for how much HP is produced at various
mixture and power settings. Think you'll find they are all about the same.
Note Dan Checkoway gets avout 7.5 GPH on an angle Valved IO360 when
trimmed lean of peak.
Even the HArmon rocket guys get like 240knots at very low fuel consumption
when trimmed to LOP cruise and that is an IO540.
So I think the idea that a bigger engine equals more fuel is only true
for cars, airplanes have a choice..:)
As for me I went with and IO360 (180HP plus FF induction). The idea
is to run the motor on autofuel (I have a bit different pumping system) and there
is a $1 per gallon saving right there.
Frank
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TylerB
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:40 AM
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
As I am now evaluating engines for my RV7A build, I would appreciate
advice on this selection. The questions are more about weight than horsepower.
If I compare the IO360M1XX 180 HP to the IO360 - 200 HP and the IO390 -210
HP in the terms of Weight, actual produced HP, fuel consumption, hot starting
tendencies, and overall performance in climb, airspeed etc. I cannot see a reason
to spend $5000-$10000 more for anything beyond the 180 HP built to maximize
perfomance. All three engines will take the airplane past Vne, the bigger two
use significantly more fuel, and if have ever tried to hot start one of the
angle valve engines you understand. The 200 HP weighs 30 # more and the 390-210
weighs 40 # more than that. Both burn 10-13 GPH at cruise where the 180 burns
8 or less. Even at $4.10 a gallon the cost savings alone are significant. Am
I missing something here?
Tyler, N537TM
Dan Checkoway wrote:
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage/pressReleases/july02/mostPowerfulFourCylinder.html
http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189629-1.html
There are apparently 11 shops which are now approved by Lycoming to do 390 build-ups. I would definitely talk to AeroSport Power (www.aerosportpower.com) and Mattituck (www.mattituck.com), and shop around to other build-up shops.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Walter
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
Dan,
This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the least
expensive item. Being new to he building process I've not heard of the
390 version. Where can I get some info ?.
Regards - Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Checkoway
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:12 AM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
Paul,
My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on my
plane, the IO-360-A1B6. I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward
to seeing whether it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390
will be capable of achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6.
In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve engine
most likely won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant.
But to me it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling
you have, rather than vice versa.
So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant
do you WANT?
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Walter
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
Thanks Dan,
I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the man
him self.
I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade down
here in Australia, how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is
to big a task to alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for my
7A ?.
Paul Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Checkoway
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
Charlie already covered the mount thing.
I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at http://www.vansairforce.net.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Walter
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM
Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
Hi guys,
Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as
follows.
When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and cowl
for the 180 hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change
to the 200 hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel later
and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration.
Thanks guys
Paul Walter
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Right Elevator |
If you start right at the edge you will end up with a flat surface where
the rivets go. Also, I used a section of 1" electrical conduit after
breaking an old broom handle I used first. The broom handle seemed to
twist a lot and not roll the edge evenly from end to the other. The
electrical conduit worked great!
Gary Dwinal
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Walter
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 3:24 AM
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Re: Right Elevator
Thanks Jon,
Also, when taping the broom handle the skin to roll trailing
edge. How far back from edge to the centre of circumference point. Does
it require a small, maybe 1/2 inch of flat surface for the rivet join ?.
The plan does not show in great detail.
Thank you - Paul Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Elford <mailto:rmkelfords@verizon.net>
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Re: Right Elevator
Paul,
Yes, the counterbalance skin is dimpled for flush head
rivets as well as dimpled for the bolts that hold the counterweight in
place. The counterweight is countersunk to accomodate the large dimples
for the bolts. You're doing fine...
Jon Elford
RV-7 N294CD Reserved
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Walter
<mailto:pdwalter@bigpond.net.au>
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 1:25 AM
Subject: RV7-List: Re: Right Elevator
Hi Dan,
When preparing the right elevator I have dimpled
skin. I then intern dimpled all holes in E-703 end rib and E - 704
counter balance rib. How ever as the E - 713 counter balance skin fits
over these holding the counterweight, I am not sure if this was the
correct construction method.
Do I intern dimple the counter balance skin and
use flush head rivets ?.
I'm having some grief with this and I have to
tackle the left elevator complete with trim tab next !!.
thanks Dan
Paul Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Checkoway
<mailto:dan@rvproject.com>
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
My 200hp angle valve injected engine is
easy to hot start. No, it's not as easy as a carb'd engine, that's for
sure. It definitely takes more blades to kick. But it's no problem,
assuming you know the technique.
I use the Airflow Performance purge
valve. I also have a single Lightspeed Plasma II electronic ignition.
These things can't hurt.
A 200hp injected engine versus a 180hp
injected engine...they should behave identically with respect to hot
start traits.
Did you have balanced injectors on your
Cardinal when you ran LOP? Were they balanced so that EGTs peaked on
all 4 cylinders within about 0.1gph of each other? Was the prop
dynamically balanced? Seems like you're confident that LOP operation
was the cause of the crank case fracture...curious about that.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: TylerB
<mailto:tylerii@InfoAve.Net>
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
I don't intend to run mogas in my
engine. And the 180 will be a std. compression which will keep the CHT
more in line. Also probably will not run lean of peak either. Did that
on a Cardinal with the 200 angle valve and it did not last to 2000TBO.
Fractured at 1250 hrs at the same spot the crank case did before.
When I said tuned for best performance I
meant flow matched , Horizontal cold air, dual electronic ignitions,
injectors done by AirFlow.
Dan, do you have to say a little prayer
and do a little rain dance before cranking hot on your 200. I sure had
to on the Cardinal
Tyler N537TM
Dan Checkoway wrote:
Rocket...240 knots? Not. The HR-II
drivers I know get around 180 KTAS burning 11-12gph.
I get 180 KTAS on ~10gph.
But I agree with the rest of your
points. The angle valve engine is more efficient at every turn. Worth
the extra bucks? To me, absolutely. But obviously not to most people,
who are content running a less efficient powerplant which has less
cooling fin area. Which one is gonna make it to TBO and beyond...the
hopped-up 180hp parallel valve running around 400F on CHT for its life,
or the kicked-back 8.7:1 angle valve running at or below 300F on the
CHTs?
Savings, schmavings.
What compression ratio are you gonna run
on your IO-360 with auto fuel?
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)
<mailto:frank.hinde@hp.com>
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 7:14 AM
Subject: RE: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
I think the idea that the bigger engines
burn more fuel is not quite right. Essentially an engine in say 120HP
cruise will burn the same amount of fuel set up at the same mixture
point. You have to look at the BFSC numbers which tell you how much fuel
is burned for how much HP is produced at various mixture and power
settings. Think you'll find they are all about the same.
Note Dan Checkoway gets avout 7.5 GPH on
an angle Valved IO360 when trimmed lean of peak.
Even the HArmon rocket guys get like
240knots at very low fuel consumption when trimmed to LOP cruise and
that is an IO540.
So I think the idea that a bigger engine
equals more fuel is only true for cars, airplanes have a choice..:)
As for me I went with and IO360 (180HP
plus FF induction). The idea is to run the motor on autofuel (I have a
bit different pumping system) and there is a $1 per gallon saving right
there.
Frank
________________________________
From:
owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TylerB
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:40 AM
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
As I am now evaluating engines for my
RV7A build, I would appreciate advice on this selection. The questions
are more about weight than horsepower. If I compare the IO360M1XX 180 HP
to the IO360 - 200 HP and the IO390 -210 HP in the terms of Weight,
actual produced HP, fuel consumption, hot starting tendencies, and
overall performance in climb, airspeed etc. I cannot see a reason to
spend $5000-$10000 more for anything beyond the 180 HP built to maximize
perfomance. All three engines will take the airplane past Vne, the
bigger two use significantly more fuel, and if have ever tried to hot
start one of the angle valve engines you understand. The 200 HP weighs
30 # more and the 390-210 weighs 40 # more than that. Both burn 10-13
GPH at cruise where the 180 burns 8 or less. Even at $4.10 a gallon the
cost savings alone are significant. Am I missing something here?
Tyler, N537TM
Dan Checkoway wrote:
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage/pressReleases/july02/
mostPowerfulFourCylinder.html
http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189629-1.html
There are apparently 11 shops which are
now approved by Lycoming to do 390 build-ups. I would definitely talk
to AeroSport Power (www.aerosportpower.com) and Mattituck
(www.mattituck.com), and shop around to other build-up shops.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Walter
<mailto:pdwalter@bigpond.net.au>
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
Dan,
This is of course true, the cowling can
be replaced being the least expensive item. Being new to he building
process I've not heard of the 390 version. Where can I get some info ?.
Regards - Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Checkoway
<mailto:dan@rvproject.com>
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:12 AM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
Paul,
My personal choice for an engine is
exactly what I have on my plane, the IO-360-A1B6. I'm studying the
IO-390 as well, and I look forward to seeing whether it really lives up
to the claims. I wonder whether the 390 will be capable of achieving
the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6.
In any case, if you have the 180hp
cowling, the angle valve engine most likely won't fit, so I'd recommend
using a parallel valve 180hp variant. But to me it seems kinda silly to
pick an engine based on which cowling you have, rather than vice versa.
So it's hard for me to make a
recommendation. Which powerplant do you WANT?
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Walter
<mailto:pdwalter@bigpond.net.au>
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
Thanks Dan,
I have studied your site so it was nice
to hear from the man him self.
I'm not sure that there would be to many
wanting to trade down here in Australia, how ever if need be I may
purchase a new cowl if it is to big a task to alter the one I have.
Which engine would be you choice for my 7A ?.
Paul Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Checkoway
<mailto:dan@rvproject.com>
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
Charlie already covered the mount thing.
I suspect you could sell or trade the
cowling if you didn't want to get into modifications. Seems like I see
a cowling trade mentioned about once a month or so on the lists &
forums. Try posting to the forums at http://www.vansairforce.net.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Walter
<mailto:pdwalter@bigpond.net.au>
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM
Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
Hi guys,
Glad to post my first question to the
group, and is as follows.
When ordering my kit I selected the
engine mount and cowl for the 180 hp io 360. My question is can I at
this point choose to change to the 200 hp model and then alter the
cowling to remove air intake snorkel later and glass repair. Or is the
whole engine mount for the 200hp a different configuration.
Thanks guys
Paul Walter
NOTICE: The information contained in this communication is intended solely for
use by the designated recipient(s). This communication may also contain confidential
or proprietary information and may be subject to confidentiality protection
under the law. If you are not a designated recipient, you may not review,
copy, or distribute this message. If you receive this message in error, please
notify the sender and destroy your copy.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Fisher Engineering, a subsidiary of Douglas Dynamics, LLC
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: exp2v bus dc load |
Hi pete !Can you be more accurate regarding integration betweenEXP2v BUS.. and
ESWH7 kits. Thanks Ilan perry.
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter DeCraene
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: exp2v bus dc load
we used the x-bus and also bought the electric wiring kit from van's. I was
able to use most of what came with the wiring kit and it served as a good starting
point for the wiring. I t also had some basic wiring diagrams that helped.
I did take the wiring harness apart but used all of the wire, and bought alot
more.
Pete DeCraene
N526PD
----- Original Message -----
From: i.perry@lipogen.co.il
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 3:46 PM
Subject: RV7-List: exp2v bus dc load
Hi !there is anyone with an experience with EXP2VBUS dc load center kit,and
van's -es wh7kit (wire harness).integration between both of kits.Best regards
i.perry.
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: exp2v bus dc load |
----- Original Message -----
From: i.perry@lipogen.co.il
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: exp2v bus dc load
Hi peter !Can you be more accurate regarding integration betweenEXP2v BUS.. and
ESWH7 kits. Thanks Ilan perry.
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter DeCraene
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: exp2v bus dc load
we used the x-bus and also bought the electric wiring kit from van's. I was
able to use most of what came with the wiring kit and it served as a good starting
point for the wiring. I t also had some basic wiring diagrams that helped.
I did take the wiring harness apart but used all of the wire, and bought
alot more.
Pete DeCraene
N526PD
----- Original Message -----
From: i.perry@lipogen.co.il
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 3:46 PM
Subject: RV7-List: exp2v bus dc load
Hi !there is anyone with an experience with EXP2VBUS dc load center kit,and
van's -es wh7kit (wire harness).integration between both of kits.Best regards
i.perry.
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Right Elevator |
<96ECC502D2678A4192F48386A524718D02CF0E43@cacexc07.americas.cpqcorp.net>
<006001c5d33c$034e78a0$0700a8c0@hole> <43540C1E.3030903@infoave.net>
<002001c5d35f$83aa3110$0700a8c0@hole>
<000c01c5d3bd$90a46620$0100000a@PDWALTER>
<001801c5d46c$882b9040$2f01a8c0@LAPTOP>
<003d01c5d47e$217bb390$0100000a@PDWALTER>
Paul,
Use whatever works for you. I used a piece of broom handle that I cannibalized
from around the shop. I cut it down so that it was a little more manageable.
One thing I did was to do only one section at a time. I started with the section
farthest to the tip, rolled it, clecoed it and moved to the next section
inboard. I just taped the handle along the entire length of the section of skin
overhang I was going to work with. Make sure to determine which section overlaps
the other one and do the underlying section first. I used two layers
of duct tape, which held just fine. It will be nearly impossible to leave a flat
area due to the way the skin rolls around the handle. It's not necessary
anyway, so don't worry about it.
Two things come to mind: 1) don't "overcurl" the skins - roll it too much and you'll
spend twice as much time trying to "uncurl" it so it fits without stress
inward and 2) don't make too big a deal out of it - just get in there and do
it. I paced back and forth trying to surmise the best way to do it flawlessly,
only to determine that it wasn't going to do itself, so I just jumped in there
and did it. It came out just fine. The nice consolation is that once it's
installed on the HS, the leading edge is largely hidden from view. :-)
Jon Elford
RV-7 N294CD Reserved
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Walter
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:24 AM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Re: Right Elevator
Thanks Jon,
Also, when taping the broom handle the skin to roll trailing edge. How far back
from edge to the centre of circumference point. Does it require a small, maybe
1/2 inch of flat surface for the rivet join ?. The plan does not show in great
detail.
Thank you - Paul Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Elford
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Re: Right Elevator
Paul,
Yes, the counterbalance skin is dimpled for flush head rivets as well as dimpled
for the bolts that hold the counterweight in place. The counterweight is
countersunk to accomodate the large dimples for the bolts. You're doing fine...
Jon Elford
RV-7 N294CD Reserved
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Walter
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 1:25 AM
Subject: RV7-List: Re: Right Elevator
Hi Dan,
When preparing the right elevator I have dimpled skin. I then intern dimpled
all holes in E-703 end rib and E - 704 counter balance rib. How ever as the
E - 713 counter balance skin fits over these holding the counterweight, I am
not sure if this was the correct construction method.
Do I intern dimple the counter balance skin and use flush head rivets ?.
I'm having some grief with this and I have to tackle the left elevator complete
with trim tab next !!.
thanks Dan
Paul Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Checkoway
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
My 200hp angle valve injected engine is easy to hot start. No, it's not
as easy as a carb'd engine, that's for sure. It definitely takes more blades
to kick. But it's no problem, assuming you know the technique.
I use the Airflow Performance purge valve. I also have a single Lightspeed
Plasma II electronic ignition. These things can't hurt.
A 200hp injected engine versus a 180hp injected engine...they should behave
identically with respect to hot start traits.
Did you have balanced injectors on your Cardinal when you ran LOP? Were
they balanced so that EGTs peaked on all 4 cylinders within about 0.1gph of
each other? Was the prop dynamically balanced? Seems like you're confident that
LOP operation was the cause of the crank case fracture...curious about that.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: TylerB
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
I don't intend to run mogas in my engine. And the 180 will be a std.
compression which will keep the CHT more in line. Also probably will not run lean
of peak either. Did that on a Cardinal with the 200 angle valve and it did
not last to 2000TBO. Fractured at 1250 hrs at the same spot the crank case did
before.
When I said tuned for best performance I meant flow matched , Horizontal
cold air, dual electronic ignitions, injectors done by AirFlow.
Dan, do you have to say a little prayer and do a little rain dance before
cranking hot on your 200. I sure had to on the Cardinal
Tyler N537TM
Dan Checkoway wrote:
Rocket...240 knots? Not. The HR-II drivers I know get around 180
KTAS burning 11-12gph.
I get 180 KTAS on ~10gph.
But I agree with the rest of your points. The angle valve engine is
more efficient at every turn. Worth the extra bucks? To me, absolutely. But
obviously not to most people, who are content running a less efficient powerplant
which has less cooling fin area. Which one is gonna make it to TBO and
beyond...the hopped-up 180hp parallel valve running around 400F on CHT for its
life, or the kicked-back 8.7:1 angle valve running at or below 300F on the CHTs?
Savings, schmavings.
What compression ratio are you gonna run on your IO-360 with auto fuel?
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 7:14 AM
Subject: RE: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
I think the idea that the bigger engines burn more fuel is not quite
right. Essentially an engine in say 120HP cruise will burn the same amount
of fuel set up at the same mixture point. You have to look at the BFSC numbers
which tell you how much fuel is burned for how much HP is produced at various
mixture and power settings. Think you'll find they are all about the same.
Note Dan Checkoway gets avout 7.5 GPH on an angle Valved IO360 when
trimmed lean of peak.
Even the HArmon rocket guys get like 240knots at very low fuel consumption
when trimmed to LOP cruise and that is an IO540.
So I think the idea that a bigger engine equals more fuel is only
true for cars, airplanes have a choice..:)
As for me I went with and IO360 (180HP plus FF induction). The idea
is to run the motor on autofuel (I have a bit different pumping system) and
there is a $1 per gallon saving right there.
Frank
From: owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TylerB
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:40 AM
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
As I am now evaluating engines for my RV7A build, I would appreciate
advice on this selection. The questions are more about weight than horsepower.
If I compare the IO360M1XX 180 HP to the IO360 - 200 HP and the IO390 -210
HP in the terms of Weight, actual produced HP, fuel consumption, hot starting
tendencies, and overall performance in climb, airspeed etc. I cannot see a reason
to spend $5000-$10000 more for anything beyond the 180 HP built to maximize
perfomance. All three engines will take the airplane past Vne, the bigger
two use significantly more fuel, and if have ever tried to hot start one of the
angle valve engines you understand. The 200 HP weighs 30 # more and the 390-210
weighs 40 # more than that. Both burn 10-13 GPH at cruise where the 180 burns
8 or less. Even at $4.10 a gallon the cost savings alone are significant.
Am I missing something here?
Tyler, N537TM
Dan Checkoway wrote:
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage/pressReleases/july02/mostPowerfulFourCylinder.html
http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189629-1.html
There are apparently 11 shops which are now approved by Lycoming to do 390 build-ups. I would definitely talk to AeroSport Power (www.aerosportpower.com) and Mattituck (www.mattituck.com), and shop around to other build-up shops.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Walter
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
Dan,
This is of course true, the cowling can be replaced being the
least expensive item. Being new to he building process I've not heard of the
390 version. Where can I get some info ?.
Regards - Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Checkoway
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:12 AM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
Paul,
My personal choice for an engine is exactly what I have on
my plane, the IO-360-A1B6. I'm studying the IO-390 as well, and I look forward
to seeing whether it really lives up to the claims. I wonder whether the 390
will be capable of achieving the same degree of economy as the IO-360-A1B6.
In any case, if you have the 180hp cowling, the angle valve
engine most likely won't fit, so I'd recommend using a parallel valve 180hp variant.
But to me it seems kinda silly to pick an engine based on which cowling
you have, rather than vice versa.
So it's hard for me to make a recommendation. Which powerplant
do you WANT?
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Walter
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
Thanks Dan,
I have studied your site so it was nice to hear from the
man him self.
I'm not sure that there would be to many wanting to trade
down here in Australia, how ever if need be I may purchase a new cowl if it is
to big a task to alter the one I have. Which engine would be you choice for
my 7A ?.
Paul Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Checkoway
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
Charlie already covered the mount thing.
I suspect you could sell or trade the cowling if you didn't want to get into modifications. Seems like I see a cowling trade mentioned about once a month or so on the lists & forums. Try posting to the forums at http://www.vansairforce.net.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Walter
To: rv7-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:15 PM
Subject: RV7-List: Engine - cowling
Hi guys,
Glad to post my first question to the group, and is as
follows.
When ordering my kit I selected the engine mount and
cowl for the 180 hp io 360. My question is can I at this point choose to change
to the 200 hp model and then alter the cowling to remove air intake snorkel
later and glass repair. Or is the whole engine mount for the 200hp a different
configuration.
Thanks guys
Paul Walter
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|